The brilliant thing about these Pay to Win schemes is that they come in small packages, seemingly affordable to a poor person.
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Cliffy B says things about microtransactions
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
The brilliant thing about these Pay to Win schemes is that they come in small packages, seemingly affordable to a poor person.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I read that part and I thought, "Somewhere, a tear fell down Tain's eye, right on his CPS-1 board of Final Fight"
ComputerMKII
Banned
I'd hate EA less if they made good games and used a little less DRM.
EmCeeGramr
Member
What if it's to your active detriment if you don't buy it?
Do any of you fuckers still actually play games, or do you just hang out here all day long and play digital fantasy football with the industry?
No games, just Gears of War.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
He's basically saying that he doesn't really care about micro-transactions because there are no better alternatives at this point.
I'm not against the concept, I just want to feel a sort of security in that what I'm buying; That it actually has enough content to suffice the price, AND, that the content is fitting and not adjusted for the masses (Dead Space 3).
Sure Dead Space 3 might not be a bad game, and micro-transactions might not ruin the game for those who don't want to, but it's still obvious that where Dead Space began, it has gone very far away from the starting point, and micro-transactions just seem like the official nail in the coffin for its change.
I'm not against the concept, I just want to feel a sort of security in that what I'm buying; That it actually has enough content to suffice the price, AND, that the content is fitting and not adjusted for the masses (Dead Space 3).
Sure Dead Space 3 might not be a bad game, and micro-transactions might not ruin the game for those who don't want to, but it's still obvious that where Dead Space began, it has gone very far away from the starting point, and micro-transactions just seem like the official nail in the coffin for its change.
shinobi602
Member
This is too good, shit.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Well that's a different situation, and I don't support that. But from what I can tell, the Dead Space 3 type of microtransaction doesn't hurt you if you don't buy it. I imagine that's the kind of microtransactions EA are going with.
Yeh, End User License Agreement, that gives me the world of confidence.
maybe, just maybe Cliff, you have become the Industry and forgotten the true love of what people want,love and expect from their games and developers, reading your posts it seems now you have become a "suit" and not really reasonable anymore.
almost institutionalized.
referring to the End User License Agreement doesnt mean it isnt shady practice.
Animal
Banned
Some of the games you mentioned had great DLC which I paid for and enjoyed very much. Others were complete failures.
One of the games you've mentioned I've had a part in its development. I am an ex-EA dev from the time when EA was just getting to grips with DLC. I've seen how DLC is handled from the other side of the fence. I respectfully disagree with you and some of what Cliff has said.
Half-Life 2 is not trash but Mass Effect 3's ending is in my opinion.
There is nothing wrong with paying the price for the reputation that precedes you because you are ultimately responsible for that reputation. If you have a rep for shitty money grabbing moves than that's your problem.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Don't bother. DocSeuss has this idea that every single thing Valve says is proof that they "hate" single-player games because they're evil, and cannot be dissuaded from it.
walking fiend
Member
You must have a small mind to be blown so easily:Do any of you fuckers still actually play games, or do you just hang out here all day long and play digital fantasy football with the industry?
I'll just pick some points:
Engagement ring doesn't effect the gameplay, it is a 'cosmetic' item. No matter how far you stretch it, there's a qualitative difference.
Sure, but it IS evil a lot of times.
So, we either have to completely dismiss something, or just accept it with whatever flaw we see in it? Are you retard? It's like saying that I am happy to be alive, because I do not cancer, but is okay if I have my fingers cut, or get crippled.
So minority should shut up, because the average majority has no problem? If you were in Germany in 1940, one with your logic would back up Hitler, cause the majority was buying all the shit he was spurring out.
The problems with your shallow analysis and ranting go on. However, the main thing you are avoiding so blindly, is that if this trend of poor DLCs, forced microtransactions, etc. goes on, gaming will become something that we do not value anymore.
Your whole article articulate around the idea that if we want gaming industry to stay alive, we should allow them to cash in more money; but the games will not be the same that they are now in 10 years. Just because other peoples are buying the games, it doesn't mean I will be.
um I don't buy it, I'm just sick of this attitude put towards consumers that were somehow not allowed to complain or criticize something because "oh a business needs to make profit." And I haven't played Dead Space 3 so I don't know how much microtransactions play into the core design, but don't act surprised 5 years from now when your $70 game is being designed with microtransactions in mind.
Duxxy3
Member
The last time gamers did that origin got shit on for a year (still gets shit on).
Oh please clifffy that blog post does not excuse how badly you guys fucked up the multiplayer in the game. Theres plenty of sequals that change up the formula and still are admired by the fans.
Gears of war 2 was just a pathetic multiplayer experience, maybe one day you can accept that.
LemonGremlin
Member
I'm sad that such a prominent game designer doesn't even acknowledge the fact that sticking microtransactions in $60 games will have an effect on their fundemental design. It's always going to be to the game's detriment too, unless it's purely cosmetic DLC (see Valve).
I mean, the core mechanics of Dead Space were obviously warped to accomodate microtransactions, and EA plans on doing similar things in all their games from now on.
I mean, the core mechanics of Dead Space were obviously warped to accomodate microtransactions, and EA plans on doing similar things in all their games from now on.
you must have missed the 10 page thread of everyone taking a shit on Valve for saying that
and yes, those are somewhat worrying comments without knowing exactly what they mean. A lot of people misinterpreted them as meaning they'd move to make multiplayer games only, when in reality it probably means something more aking to being connected with other players all the time, wich after seeing the PS4 announcement and all that, it seems to be something the whole gaming industry is moving towards.
Do I like it? not necesarelly, I like some of it and I worry about other aspects of it.
Valve saw an opportunity with Steam and they took it. Its a business, they make money doing what they do and they're very good at that.
And yeah, Steam is like Netflix in the sense that it's a service within a service. It's an outlet for a recent movement of online games, among others like Origin, Uplay, etc.
Thing is, as they are good at making money they are also very good at making the best service for this kind of thing out there, thus people use that service, give them money and dont regret it.
Furthermore I still think we'll get plenty of "discrete" games. Not only do I not see that kind of sharing functionality being built in into every game (nor do I think that's what Gabe meant. I'll be damned if I see a "tweet this!" after a kill in TF2.. I really didnt get that from those comments), but I also think that there's plenty of room for single-player experiences delivered through a service like Steam.
Steam games work offline. You know what game doesnt? SimCity, and that's EA.
There's a different between a choice of being connected/sharing and an obligation to do so if you want to play the game. Even if Valve is heading in this direction (with the rest of the entire world), I wouldnt put them upfront as the company that's moving fastest towards that.
ComputerMKII
Banned
I've finished reading Cliff's article and I see nothing wrong with it.
EmCeeGramr
Member
clifford j blescksinmsowicz, literal nazi
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
it mostly is look at dead space 3 everything is there for you but u can access certain things earlier with microtransactions, this isnt a problem
alexandros
Banned
This is unnecessary. Counter the arguments, don't resort to namecalling.
Lord_Nergal
Member
Why are developers so entitled to our money?
gamezjurnalizm.jpg
gamezjurnalizm.jpg
What, those art history and philosophy degrees everyone has aren't helping them land jobs?
Cliffy, I love you, but we all know that not only does EA not ship great games, they also ship unfinished games and then nickel and dime the costumer to pay for the rest.
I don't think GAF has a problem with buying finished games, that aren't fixed through patches for the following months after release, and purchasing DLC that isn't removed from the actual game.
I don't think GAF has a problem with buying finished games, that aren't fixed through patches for the following months after release, and purchasing DLC that isn't removed from the actual game.
Ouch.What, those art history and philosophy degrees everyone has aren't helping them land jobs?
But so very true.
I don't know shit about Dead Space 3. How did they do this?
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
What, those art history and philosophy degrees everyone has aren't helping them land jobs?
Wow, you're on a
t
I worded that poorly. I've been doing that a lot today. Blaming health issues, I think.
No. I do instant message, but I do not instant message when I play games. I do not want to instant message while I'm playing games, because I am enjoying the game.
You know when you're at the movie theater, and an asshole is on Facebook on his phone? You know the guy who starts talking loudly during the movie? Putting Facebook functionality or what have you in a game is like saying "yeah, okay, we're going to encourage this behavior. We're going to actively yank people out of experiences we've crafted." Can you imagine a movie that stopped every few minutes to let you tweet that you've made it two hours in?
I do social media, but this does not 'enhance' my game in any way. This is single-player minus, not single-player plus.
What, those art history and philosophy degrees everyone has aren't helping them land jobs?
:|
I get my game design degree this May. I will not be employable.
I like being a bastard on the internet, and I get that's what you're doing here, but some of the shit you're saying is really damn depressing.
Haunted
Member
Your faith in EA is utterly bewildering.
From what codecow said about the Dead Space 3 microtransaction stuff, the game was balanced regularly and the idea came up (or should I say down har har) sometime during development so they didn't rebalance the game but just put this in.
I fully expect future games designed with this model in mind from the start to be designed in such a way as to "nudge" the player towards buying some of these consumables.
EmCeeGramr
Member
What, those art history and philosophy degrees everyone has aren't helping them land jobs?
not every young twenty-something is lucky enough to be named one of the Next Game Gods along with killcreek and american mcgee
The traditional industry already had a recent crash starting in November 2008 from which is never fully recovered, and from which it never will.
Do any of you fuckers still actually play games, or do you just hang out here all day long and play digital fantasy football with the industry?
Gaf exposed! ^^
Zeouterlimits
Member
Yeesh, you're certainly one of us.What, those art history and philosophy degrees everyone has aren't helping them land jobs?
even devs i greatly respect just don't understand :[
vasametropolis
Member
ShockingAlberto
Member
What, those art history and philosophy degrees everyone has aren't helping them land jobs?
Did you adjust your monocle and tophat to type this
NullPointer
Member
They should work in the games industry.What, those art history and philosophy degrees everyone has aren't helping them land jobs?
Nealand Liquor
Member
Sadly Cliff I think you are missing the point behind the anger towards microtransactions. What people don't like is now things that used to be put into games to add replay value and reward the gamer for playing the game, such as costumes, bonus items and cheat codes are now paid dlc. You see, if dlc was for content that added to the game, instead of simply pulling content back then putting a price on it, there would be no valid outcry from gamers. Just as I can't think of many gamers that wouldn't love more content in games, I can't think of many that love paying more for the same amount of content.
Here's other things we hate about dlc and microtransactions: Without paying the extra money (on top of the $60 retail we already paid), the game and our experience is nerfed.
You know, like not being able to play a large number of multiplayer matchtypes included in the retail copy because you didn't buy the launch day dlc.
Or Lets say you don't want to complete the same boring minigame hundreds of times over the course of 20 hours just to craft a midlevel sword?
Well pal-o, buck up and pay just $2.99 to boost your metal working skill 10 pts.
We love this industry just much as anyone, but we see it being ruined with dlc, season passes and microtransaction. It's not being ruined because they exist, but because in the large majority of cases it is pure lazy bullshit content and nothing more than an obvious cash grab.
I understand it is a business and people need to put 'food on the table'. Christ Cliffy, we all need to do that. But just simply saying 'we're motivated by profits' and 'this is a business' doesn't mean there is no accountability for the content and products released. If the industry wants us to stop bitching and complaining, well then start releasing extra content that is actually extra content and gives value to the consumer. However if nothing is going to change on your side, nothing will change ours.
Cliff I like you. I've been on your side more times than not, but really man look at what we're being offered. So it's with that I propose a challenge: Create dlc that is worth its asking price.
Here's other things we hate about dlc and microtransactions: Without paying the extra money (on top of the $60 retail we already paid), the game and our experience is nerfed.
You know, like not being able to play a large number of multiplayer matchtypes included in the retail copy because you didn't buy the launch day dlc.
Or Lets say you don't want to complete the same boring minigame hundreds of times over the course of 20 hours just to craft a midlevel sword?
Well pal-o, buck up and pay just $2.99 to boost your metal working skill 10 pts.
We love this industry just much as anyone, but we see it being ruined with dlc, season passes and microtransaction. It's not being ruined because they exist, but because in the large majority of cases it is pure lazy bullshit content and nothing more than an obvious cash grab.
I understand it is a business and people need to put 'food on the table'. Christ Cliffy, we all need to do that. But just simply saying 'we're motivated by profits' and 'this is a business' doesn't mean there is no accountability for the content and products released. If the industry wants us to stop bitching and complaining, well then start releasing extra content that is actually extra content and gives value to the consumer. However if nothing is going to change on your side, nothing will change ours.
Cliff I like you. I've been on your side more times than not, but really man look at what we're being offered. So it's with that I propose a challenge: Create dlc that is worth its asking price.
I looked it up and he does make some good points, in between the Dead Space fan fiction which makes no sense.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6814-Companies-Exist-To-Make-Money?hq=1
And yet it still sold 15 million. BF4 could be released as an alpha and it will still probably sell more than that.
And you probably don't know, but BF2 and BFBC1 also were released as betas. BF2 crashed almost every game on release, and a good majority of people could not install it.
Guess what, people still continued to buy the sequels despite this. DICE has literally been releasing broken products and it's worked out very well for them.
"People like to act like we should go back to the good ol days before microtransactions but they forget that arcades were the original change munchers. Those games were designed to make you lose so that you had to keep spending money on them. Ask any of the old Midway vets about their design techniques. The second to last boss in Mortal Kombat 2 was harder than the last boss, because when you see the last boss thats sometimes enough for a gamer. The Pleasure Dome didnt really exist in the original Total Carnage. Donkey Kong was hard as hell on purpose. (Kill screen coming up!)"
Excellent point, one that also illustrates the precedent for designing games around abusing microtransactions. Sure, they are innocent enough in games like Dead Space and can easily be ignored, but who is to say that this will never be abused and compromise the design of games in much the same way as the old 'change munching' arcade games? Some people just do not want to see this practice exploited like that and I think that is a legitimate concern from a consumer standpoint.
To think that EA would never do this is naive, in my mind. But you are right, I am not being forced to buy or play the games and the masses will pay up, regardless. I just don't particularly like the idea of where this can lead and hate to see games I love designed around being pay-to-win slot machines with no soul just so corporations like EA can rake in even more cash. But hey, I should not complain. Because I am in the minority and they obviously need more money on top of what we already pay, right?
Excellent point, one that also illustrates the precedent for designing games around abusing microtransactions. Sure, they are innocent enough in games like Dead Space and can easily be ignored, but who is to say that this will never be abused and compromise the design of games in much the same way as the old 'change munching' arcade games? Some people just do not want to see this practice exploited like that and I think that is a legitimate concern from a consumer standpoint.
To think that EA would never do this is naive, in my mind. But you are right, I am not being forced to buy or play the games and the masses will pay up, regardless. I just don't particularly like the idea of where this can lead and hate to see games I love designed around being pay-to-win slot machines with no soul just so corporations like EA can rake in even more cash. But hey, I should not complain. Because I am in the minority and they obviously need more money on top of what we already pay, right?
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Cliff, I agree with you wholeheartedly and please invite me to the secret Pax East parties with all the coke and hookers. Thanks. Big Fan. Loved Brute Force