He makes decent points but then loses everyone when he completely ignores the dishonest nature of the big companies in misleading gamers as to the quality of content that is directly impacted from the piecing out of shit that becomes DLC for microtransactions. The argument of "dont buy it if you dont like it" doesnt hold up as much when the companies actively lie about where their efforts and focus is on. Its just the ultimate argument to never preorder anything anymore and wait for a lot of reviews that havent been paid off.
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Cliffy B says things about microtransactions
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
He makes decent points but then loses everyone when he completely ignores the dishonest nature of the big companies in misleading gamers as to the quality of content that is directly impacted from the piecing out of shit that becomes DLC for microtransactions. The argument of "dont buy it if you dont like it" doesnt hold up as much when the companies actively lie about where their efforts and focus is on. Its just the ultimate argument to never preorder anything anymore and wait for a lot of reviews that havent been paid off.
lol people that feel like they "won" because they got a games person to tweet about them need to reevaluate their life.
Holy shit, what a narcissist cliff is.
Nice to know he can safely be ignored as a troll now.
Never expected a reply. It was clear from his initial post CliffyB wasn't interested in a discussion of any kind.
Chubzdoomer
Banned
Do any of you fuckers still actually play games, or do you just hang out here all day long and play digital fantasy football with the industry?
Not really, considering Htown completely dismantled him with this superb rebuttal.
The Spoony Hou
Member
Alright, I'm not a big fan but this is awesome :lol.
Warm Machine
Member
The GiantBomb Skullgirls thread does more to peel back the realities of cost, return, and reasoning. If you want to talk about the requirements of micro transactions you also need to back it up with the actual economics that drives it.
Sometimes a $60 price point isn't enough to actually cover the budget. There are loads of possible reasons for this. Sometimes a $1 game may never pay for itself even though $1 is cheap as hell.
A topic like this cant be opinion driven. Everyone everywhere has an opinion. The only real opinion is mathematics.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
People that think Cliffy won because he threw out an ad hominem attack also need to do some re-evaluation. I've seen people perma banned for less.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
That indeed was glorious and well done.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
It's a pretty shitty thing to go onto a completely different kind of forum (a much more ego-centric one) so you can say "Hey what you guys are saying is just retarded" when you've already started the ball rolling.
Sure you can choose to ignore all the shitty people commenting "LOLZ EA SUX", but on-top of that making it into a statement that it's "beneath" you to comment back, then you're just trying to win the battle with different kinds of weapons on a completely different battlefield.
Either you shut up or you fight back. Anything in-between comes off as cowardly and pointless.
Sure you can choose to ignore all the shitty people commenting "LOLZ EA SUX", but on-top of that making it into a statement that it's "beneath" you to comment back, then you're just trying to win the battle with different kinds of weapons on a completely different battlefield.
Either you shut up or you fight back. Anything in-between comes off as cowardly and pointless.
lol it was funny. Get over it. And Neogaf IS filled with clowns who post here all day thinking they're gaming industry experts because they visit gamasutra and follow their favorite gaming personas on twitter.
Gokurakumaru
Banned
Amazing rebuttal. Really points out how self-serving Cliff's argument is. But then again, he already admitted to enjoying the noteriety, so maybe coming off as a disingenuous shill works for him either way.
disappeared
Banned
.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Cliffy B acting like a child. How unexpected.
lol it was funny. Get over it. And Neogaf IS filled with clowns who post here all day thinking they're gaming industry experts because they visit gamasutra and follow their favorite gaming personas on twitter.
It didn't take an expert to see where the music industry was headed in 2002. It doesn't take an expert to see where the game industry is heading now.
vikingvessel
Member
Since you mentioned EviLore possibly taking issue earlier, I believe it is fair to say that he [as well as the mods] can take a punch and has no problem going head to head without handing out bans over most of the routine bickering going on here. You also singled Cliff out for falling back on a ridiculous meme, which seems a bit selective, though we may have found additonal common ground here. Spamming ten-year-old pictures of his detractors is clearly the way to go.
Jacksonlee
Member
i thought it was a pretty good read; obvious, but entertaining.
whys the beef with the guy, everybody seems to hate on him
whys the beef with the guy, everybody seems to hate on him
because he's an extremely successful game developer, knows how to talk and doesn't look like a nerd.
I actually think Cliffy got destroyed, when Htown broke down Cliffy's argument piece by piece, in a rational and calm manner. He didn't have to resort to being snarky, or taking shots, he just explained why Cliffy's way of viewing things was flawed.
Did he respond to him? No. Did he just ignore his post (and anyone else that actually tried to have a debate) and instead focused on those insulting him? Yes. I'm sorry, Cliffy comes off as a big douche here. And this is someone that initially, was defending his post. Even if I disagreed with some of what he said, I thought his blog post was articulated well, and I like to hear his opinion. His response was just as pathetic as those that were attacking him - and even worse, because he's supposed to be a professional.
lol it was funny. Get over it. And Neogaf IS filled with clowns who post here all day thinking they're gaming industry experts because they visit gamasutra and follow their favorite gaming personas on twitter.
What are you then? A "casual" Gaf user? Why did you sign up in the first place if you despise the "clowns" here so much?
Awesome high horse you ride on, you honor the fact that you play videogames more than having discussions about them and the industry, as if that's some sort of prideful trait to have. Congratulations, your keeping it real gamer cred has gone up.
Treating people with respect through the internet makes you nerdy. Gotcha. You are one of the coolest dudes I've met.
Fixed that for you.
vikingvessel
Member
Come on, Cliff isn't allowed to mix it up a little with TOO BAD MOTHERFUCKER! after I really wish Cliffy would just stop talking for awhile. I say recognize the mods for their sense of context and for letting it fly, much to their credit. His initial rebuttal was pillow talk, compared to some of what came at him later.
Wouldn't it be more like the only part that matters are the mathematics? Either way it's not an opinion but cold hard reality.
Though I think that also MIGHT highlight why mobile gaming is so fucked up and why the attrition on dedicated handhelds is nothing to celebrate: Real Racing 2 was brought up as something equivalent to a console experience, but at $5! And now we have a sequel that goes for free! Except it milks you wherever and however it can for money.
I think both models are quite possibly dead ends for higher budget games. Sounds like something like RR2 should've been $20 at a minimum, perhaps actually $30 or $40 and being in line with traditional handheld titles, but no one's willing to directly pay that just for the game, so instead they look into how they can make up for that, and so they thrive off of whales who don't care, a few people chipping in to make things go a bit smoother, and some ad support from those who won't pay, and in any case unless you constantly pay to speed things up the game is lame. So now we have iOS where seemingly no one's willing to pay upfront, only when they're caught in a position where they're hooked to the game UNLESS they fork up the money, while dedicated handheld games are "too expensive" even though they offer good value for their cost (usually anyway, there are some pretty bad offenders there) without trying to coerce microtransactions that eclipse the value of the game, and if they DO it's nothing you actually need as the case is for Fire Emblem. It's probably also why EA's relatively benign with this on Dead Space 3 despite abusing the fuck out of it on iOS, they got the $60 from you, so while it'd be good to get more they still got a huge chunk of money for you so they don't need to sweat designing the game around milking you.
Though given what's going on with Zynga it does sound like consumers DO ultimately reject the attempts at badly milking players.
freenudemacusers
Member
I need a cliff's notes for this thread
edit: I will always love cliff for jazz jackrabbit. those were the shit.
edit: I will always love cliff for jazz jackrabbit. those were the shit.
it's twitter who cares. Watch thislol "knows how to talk"
this is why people look down on the games industry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fkSUQEMwV4
dude's a great speaker. I don't need to defend him though, he's more successful than 90% of the bitter people in this thread will ever be.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
Although it's easy to hate on the guy for his twitter response, people should understand that it wasn't motivated by him simply wanting to be an asshole. The guy loves video games and likes the community here enough to have an account and post. We all do. Why? Because some part of us is interested in what the people here have to say. We care, even if we don't want to admit it. And because we care, it's going to sting a little bit when you see hundreds of people ganging up on you for something you posted. Doesn't matter how wrong or right it was. Nobody likes seeing everyone pile on against them. It's going to provoke a reaction. This was his.
It isn't fair to ignore the responses in the thread, and use the guys twitter reaction as a reason to say, "hey, NOW you're an asshole".
It isn't fair to ignore the responses in the thread, and use the guys twitter reaction as a reason to say, "hey, NOW you're an asshole".
it's twitter who cares. Watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fkSUQEMwV4
dude's a great speaker. I don't need to defend him though, he's more successful than 90% of the bitter people in this thread will ever be.
Assuming that everyone in here defines success as making a lot of money is shallow and juvenile. No one is bitter over Cliff making money, no one is bitter period. Your personal hero can't communicate with people or an audience without his ego being stroked, he's acting cowardly.
ProfessorMoran
Member
lol "knows how to talk"
this is why people look down on the games industry
It would be interesting if CliffyB declares war on gaf.
Seems okay, wouldn't call him great. And judging by his conduct here and on Twitter I'm assuming that was only decent on accident.
thisI don't need to defend him though, he's more successful than 90% of the bitter people in this thread will ever be.
high school level retort is in the same bracket as "WOW U CANT CRITICIZE HIM YOU HAVENT MADE A GAME", fwiw vikingvessel
Member
Do you sincerely believe that a currently unemployed developer singling out those who called him a douchebag and attacked his wife's appearance is the problem? I say that as if you weren't pretending to be offended and were really expecting detailed articulation in throwaway social media with major character restrictions per transmission. As the face of Epic, the way in which he conducted himself without question broke down some of the walls between developer and consumer. Unfortunately, the moment he steps out of line, any positive contributions are reduced to nil.
so angry lol.this
Pretending to be offended? what
vikingvessel
Member
If his success is not being used against him, why so many mentions of his automobile? Digital microtransactions to personal transportation is a dandy of a stretch. My confidence in you being able to speak for everyone is entirely based on you taking it upon yourself to speak for everyone.
Are you just trolling at this point?
Gokurakumaru
Banned
it's twitter who cares. Watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fkSUQEMwV4
dude's a great speaker. I don't need to defend him though, he's more successful than 90% of the bitter people in this thread will ever be.
He's as good a speaker as any other speaker at any number of tech conferences I've been to. And I'm unsure what you think a "nerd" looks like, but he looks pretty much like any number of speakers at those same conferences. Working in IT doesn't make you an overweight neck-beard.
His happening to strike gold with a couple of games doesn't make his behavior any less abrasive or cowardly. That's what people take issue with. He could be good looking or he could be dead broke. Nobody would feel any different about his comments.
Alright, you got me. Some people are talking about his car or something, what does that have to do with what I've been saying in general?
I think it's hilarious that people take issue with his behavior.
Spazznid
Member
I never really had much love for you after a certain point, man, but you sure as hell just earned it. ALL MY LOVES.
I think it's hilarious that people don't take issue with his behavior.
Actually, it's not really an issue. More embarrassing and disappointing.
Why would I take issue with what his behaviour? What am I, his Mom lol? It doesn't affect my life at all. He's a great game designer and offers good insight on a lot of stuff. I don't give a shit if he's "cocky" or "arrogant" as GAFers like to put it.
Barbacoatl
Banned
And yet here we are.
Well some of us think he's a decent designer with flawed opinions, and that by being arrogant and an egotist he's not really helping his own argument.
Gokurakumaru
Banned
I have that GDC vid playing in a background tab at the moment and he was just talking about getting on forums and engaging with the community somewhere around the 30 minute mark. All he's done in here is alienate that same community and then run away to a friendlier forum.
It's hilarious that you think burning goodwill is a laughing matter.
His argument holds no water, it has been demonstrated many times in this thread and his only response has been to call everyone bitter unemployed art school trolls.
The guy deserves no respect if he cant back up his simplistic ideas without resorting to juvenile shit flinging.
he probably doesn't GAF about GAF (haha see what I did there?) because so many people here are so jaded and bitter.
So he's scared he'll get his feelings hurt or that people here are cynical? Sounds like really weak excuses.
Gokurakumaru
Banned
Sure. He must post here and comment about GAF on Twitter because he doesn't care. Makes sense.
With the way you are fawning over him the thought did cross my mind.