Mechanically, I imagine they just needed a fuel for the powers. Story-wise nothing is said about that unless I missed something. The nature of vigors is purposely left vague.
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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
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Mechanically, I imagine they just needed a fuel for the powers. Story-wise nothing is said about that unless I missed something. The nature of vigors is purposely left vague.
bobs...onGaf
Member
I certainly wanted to know why Salt bottles and even machines seemed to be everywhere but why there was such a lack of people actually ever using them through the game. It seemed like except for Booker only the Firemen or Ravens used Vigors at all.
Tummi Gummi
Member
The police make a big deal of the first fireman you meet, clearing the streets and such, and he's just a single dude in armour with that one tonic. What would a bunch of Vox do with a hijacked crate of that stuff? But nobody seems to care. They're practically cantrips.
Mickiscoole
Neo Member
"Elizabeth" doesn't exist, but Anna does. (At least that is how I understand the post credits bit)
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
so I just fired up Injustice on my iPhone and was greeted with this intro.
what is going on guys? how does Lex Luther fit into all of this.
The whole multiverse of DC works with the same premise, at least before new52. Its normal that it sounds similar. Theres a universe where Lex is the good guy and superman the bad, theres another universe were hitler wons the second world war and some DC golden age heroes are trapped in a neverending battle, etc...
As I said in the other spoiler thread, the lighthouse, city and man quote elizabeth says means that even if you can find some universes that look like Columbia, but with changes,or some like rapture but also with differences means that there can be a universe with people living in a city in the moon during the 60's of that universe, or a city ruled by antropomorphic cats and dogs. Thats why I said various times that Rapture is not in the same timeline that Columbia.
well, if you wanna go meta there are probably an infinite amount of other universes in which comstock was more sensible and just went through the traditional adoption process with boring results
paperboywriter
Member
right, but it could.
btw. this argument could imply you belive the whole booker is ryan theory. could.
rohlfinator
Member
Part of it is just the timeframe of the different games. Rapture had gone to shit years earlier, and basically everyone had either left or died except for the heaviest Plasmid abusers. Columbia is just starting to get into the whole civil war situation, and Vigors are still a relatively new thing.
I don't think it's an oversight, it's just not as big of a focus because Vigors don't really play as much of a role in the story they wanted to tell in this game.
He took anna from an alternate timeline because that's what he saw in the future. He saw in the future through a tear that his seed was the one that would rain fire, so he had to recreate that future. Since he was sterile the only way to do that was to take one from an alternate timeline.
He didn't just do it because he was crazy.
Tummi Gummi
Member
It's difficult to determine timelines and such - I'm not even sure Industrial Revolution is canonical due to the way things like Motorized Patriots and various gun types are introduced. But honestly, the first whiff of a consumer product that lets you throw fireballs with your hands after a swig would be dynamite news. How was that even permitted to enter the open market in a place like Columbia?
Well you could say he was crazy because he saw one possible future tear he went through great lengths to kidnap his kid from a different timeline. I mean what are Comstock's motivations for raising Elizabeth to rain down fire anyway? Crazy religious mumbo jumbo because he chose to be baptized.
I agree, it's crazy. It really lends to the feeling that the world exists for you (instead of being organic).
elguerosinfe
Member
Those of you replaying Bioshock 1 & 2 after Infinite: are you finding the experience to be satisfying? I want to spend more time in this space but not ready to replay Infinite quite yet. I played B1 many times, but never made it through B2.
BackwardsSuggestions
Member
So Bioshock 1 had the "Yay, happy or shit ending that lasts 1 minute". I moaned about it, I like my endings.
Infinite had a great ending that wasn't just one cut scene. Being able to play most scenes was a lot more useful to digesting the ending. I still have no fucking clue what just happened.
Also, do we have a theory on what the final-final scene was about? Where you hear Anna/Liz's crib-mobile playing?
Infinite had a great ending that wasn't just one cut scene. Being able to play most scenes was a lot more useful to digesting the ending. I still have no fucking clue what just happened.
Also, do we have a theory on what the final-final scene was about? Where you hear Anna/Liz's crib-mobile playing?
Dominant theory is that said scene is in a universe untouched by the paradox, where Booker hasn't given away Anna.
Yes, we do have an idea, but I'm going to back up a bit to explain it.
Liz could manipulate time-space because part of her (the tip of her pinky finger) was in one universe, while the rest of her was in another. It's like she's standing on the border between worlds, one foot on each side, able to see both sides.
To try and regulate this power, the siphon was created inside Monument Island, as a way to restrain her. Liz describes it as a "leash." Once the siphon is destroyed at the end of the game, she's "off the leash," and her power reaches its full potential. She can now see all of the infinite sets of timelines in the universe... including all of the ones in which Booker becomes Comstock.
To prevent Comstock from ever happening, Liz has to create a PARADOX, because the universe "does not like its peas mixed with its porridge," as Lutece put it -- or in other words, nature will correct any paradoxes by obliterating paradoxical timelines from existence.
So, Liz creates a paradox: She drowns Booker before his baptism. This creates a paradox because if Booker is dead, Booker can never become Comstock, and if Booker can never become Comstock, Comstock can never steal Liz, and if Liz is never stolen, Liz never receives her ability to traverse time-space and kill Booker in the first place.
The universe sees this and goes, "PARADOX!" And then obliterates each and every timeline where Booker becomes Comstock.
All that remains, are the timelines where Booker rejects baptism. What was once a "variable" -- an element that can change, in this case to accept or reject baptism -- is now a "constant," like the coin that always comes up heads when the Lutece twins meet Booker again at the Raffle Fair and ask him to flip the coin.
That's an important concept to understand. There are constants -- elements that always work out the same across all timelines -- and variables, or things that are different depending on the timeline. Elizabeth, by creating a paradox, forced the universe to take the "variable" of accepting/rejecting baptism, and turn it into the "constant" of rejection.
And so Booker, while still in debt, will be able to see his daughter grow up. And hopefully things will work out for the best.
The Xtortionist
Member
Fucking God Only Knows
GET OUT OF MY HEAD
GET OUT OF MY HEAD
theosi
Member
I don't replay games often right after I beat them, but this game, man...
Maybe I'll break down and try out 1999 mode. Ending blew my mind even though in hindsight the game gave me all the clues I needed but I still ended up having one of those "wait...what?" moments with the Booker/Comstock reveal.
Anyone else get a kick out of Battleship Bay or whatever it was called when you wake up on the beach and you're looking for Elizabeth? I remember I was just walking/looking around listening to all the dialogue from the NPCs and as I finally approach the pier and I kinda focused in on the music that was playing, realizing I knew the tune...then it hit me that it was a twist on 'girls just want to have fun' just as I was approaching Elizabeth dancing at the end of the Pier. It just fit so well. I think it'll be one of those gaming moments that stick with me!
this game.
Maybe I'll break down and try out 1999 mode. Ending blew my mind even though in hindsight the game gave me all the clues I needed but I still ended up having one of those "wait...what?" moments with the Booker/Comstock reveal.
Anyone else get a kick out of Battleship Bay or whatever it was called when you wake up on the beach and you're looking for Elizabeth? I remember I was just walking/looking around listening to all the dialogue from the NPCs and as I finally approach the pier and I kinda focused in on the music that was playing, realizing I knew the tune...then it hit me that it was a twist on 'girls just want to have fun' just as I was approaching Elizabeth dancing at the end of the Pier. It just fit so well. I think it'll be one of those gaming moments that stick with me!
this game.
I actually took it slower the second time because I already knew what would happen so the sense of urgency was lost. Just like my other favorite FPS this gen, Portal 2, there's a lot to be found from loitering.
Wrapped it up around 2AM last night (daughter on the way and figured my gaming days will soon be over for abit and I really wanted to finish this one). Loved the ending, and the Bioshock 1 moment literally left my mouth open in dorkish glee. So glad I managed to avoid all spoilers up to this point.
If anything let me down it was the Boys of Silence enemy. Such an interesting design and they're basically...walking security cameras, and not many of them. A shame to think it'll likely be years and years before we see another Levine-helmed game.
If anything let me down it was the Boys of Silence enemy. Such an interesting design and they're basically...walking security cameras, and not many of them. A shame to think it'll likely be years and years before we see another Levine-helmed game.
Holy shit, the Battleship Bay theme IS "Girls Just Want to Have Fun."
i think PC ver was bugged. i didn't hear it during PC playthrough. heard it fine in 360. what a lovely tune.
Bioshock 2 is probably my favorite of the series in terms of gameplay. Bioshock 1 and Infinite don't guide you and really allow the player time to learn the intricacies of combat before hurtling you into the narrative. Bioshock 2 has a real sense of learning and mastering the combat. By the end, I felt much stronger and more accomplished than I had at the beginning. I'm on my second play through of Infinite and only now am I starting to feel comfortable with its combat scenarios (for example, I finally had a Handyman sequence I truly enjoyed).
The story isn't as revelatory as the Ken Levine directed Bioshocks, but it is still a good yarn and has the most "complete" of the story arcs.
Tummi Gummi
Member
They went through pretty significant changes. In earlier versions they literally swallowed up all the sounds in a level, with ambient noise and such cutting out as their alert level rose, and finally attacked the player. Irrational said they couldn't figure out a way for this mechanic to work ideally, so dropped it. Also, the trailer for their reveal seems to show them in some exterior locations, so I assume lots of stuff was changed round. It's strange to have a new heavy hitter just appear for around 30m-1hr and then never be encountered again.
I was too busy being shot at.
To be honest, I didn't realize non-period-appropriate songs were playing until later on in the game. It flew over my head with the barbershop quartet, with the shantytown woman, and with this as well. I just... completely didn't recognize it with the new style. I mean, it's a carnival-style calliope/steam organ/steam piano cover!
I heard it. It plays as you're exploring the beach.
Comstock was Booker before his rebirth... Slate thought they were two different people
yea, didn't play for me. only played the ambient noise.
Oh, duh. I'm a complete dumbass. I was thinking about it way too hard. I figured out other, far more complex things on my own but this eluded me. Thanks for clearing that up.
yea, i replayed on 360 last night and it played. that's when i noticed it.
the cover is really quite other worldly.
You didn't recognize God Only Knows?
That's surprising. The chorus is still distinctive even in the cover.I guess I'm easily amused, because I swear, while I loved the song in the game before knowing it was a cover, and while hearing it evokes some fierce warm fuzzies, it suddenly took on a whole new dimension of magic knowing it's a cover.
LOL, the whole Raffle Fair was one huge blur to me. I was just completely engrossed. I looked over that balcony expecting clouds and out of nowhere rose an airship filled with the guy on the Pringles can.You didn't recognize God Only Knows?
I mean... WOW.
I think he knew. I think Booker-turned-Comstock recruited his old war buddy Slate to be in charge of Columbia's army. And Slate grew to hate Comstock after Comstock portrayed himself as the hero of the Boxer Rebellion, while it was Slate and his men who did the actual fighting.
theosi
Member
Wait, so if that's true does that mean Booker didn't have much a role, if any at Wounded Knee? Why does Booker even need to be baptized to wash away his sins if that's the case? The battle happened before the Booker/Comstock *split* so they should have had the same experience, no?
Man this game messes with my head.
just finished, kinda saw a lot of it coming, but still didn't ruin it for me.
Booker being Comstock was pretty simple once you get the Vox's and connect what a false prophet is.
Then AD, etc. all fell into place.
Was NOT expecting to be shot down to rapture, don't think it was necessary (nor did I like the 'there's always a town, always a man' speech, seemed too forced and just a bridge between the two story lines, not really a 'ah ha' moment).
Booker being Comstock was pretty simple once you get the Vox's and connect what a false prophet is.
Then AD, etc. all fell into place.
Was NOT expecting to be shot down to rapture, don't think it was necessary (nor did I like the 'there's always a town, always a man' speech, seemed too forced and just a bridge between the two story lines, not really a 'ah ha' moment).
God Only Knows
Everybody Wants to Rule the World
Girls Just Want to Have Fun
Tainted Love
Shiny Happy People
Fortunate Son
I'm sure I'm missing some though. Only the more modern songs caught my ear.
EDIT- The Bioshock wiki has the full list.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
It was the first song I realized was something else.
Off the top of my head:
God Only Knows
Girls Just Wanna Have Fun
Tainted Love
Shiny Happy People
Fortunate Son
EDIT: Beaten with links and a more complete list. Damn
Yes, Wounded Knee happened before the baptism. Booker killed LOTS of innocent people. That's why he sought baptism. He killed innocent Indians because he himself is part Indian, and out of racism and a desire to fit in, he killed to a prove himself to his fellow soldiers. But afterwards, the reality of what he'd done caught up with him. He realized the Indians were still people. So, he sought absolution through baptism.
Here's the key: Depending on the timeline, he chose or rejected baptism. You play as the Booker who rejected baptism; he went on to live with the weight of what he'd done and slid into a destructive cycle of depression, drinking and debt.
But the Booker who accepted baptism became Comstock, and used baptism not only as a way to feel "forgiven" for what he'd done to the Indians, but as a way to feel justified, since his newfound religion led him to see other races as inherently inferior, and to see his cruel treatment of them as no different than the way God was cruel when he flooded the world in the story of Noah's Ark. That's why Columbia is an "Ark for another time," and Comstock wants to flood the "Sodom Below"... with fire.
In other words, Comstock is the version of Booker who rationalized his wrongs and went on to do even worse things, while the Booker who rejected baptism is depressed because he finds himself irredeemable, and, depressed though he is, this Booker is the one who comes to realize his racism was wrong.
Booker did have a very large role at Wounded Knee. But he had no "hands on" role at the Boxer Rebellion, which took place after he became Comstock. Columbia flew over to China and quelled the Boxer Rebellion with excessive force (they apparently destroyed the city of Peking.) Slate said that it was he and his men who did all of the fighting on the ground and that Comstock stayed up in the safety of Columbia. But in the Hall of Heroes it was portrayed that Comstock personally led the fight and practically won the whole thing by himself.
WHOA.
I DO SAY, GOOD SIR, YOU ARE LE TITS.
*gives Trigger the coveted Neiteio Tits Award*