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[ZeroGravity]

Perfect.

 

[LiK]

3 men on top of each other winking and naked.

What else could it mean?

Naked? I see no penis. They're just wrestling.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I wouldn't be embarrassed to play this in public. Not even as much as playing Pokemon or a 'kids game' in public as well.

Id have to agree with you on that.

 

[CrazyArcadia]

No woman would design a character that would sexually objectify her gender like that.

Yeah, this is just not true at all. There are enough female comic book and illustration artists who draw characters the same way. There are also many female hentai artists, and I don't think they're forced to draw hentai. For a more curious example, you are aware that, for example, the designers for the costumes in Dead or Alive are not an all male team:

From an old Famitsu Interview on Dead or Alive XBV with Itagaki:

Q: What else did women have to say about the game?

I: Well, just within our company, a lot of the people who thought up the swimsuit designs were actually women. Most of the really extreme designs were done by women. (laughs) Women have a lot more knowledge and sense about these things than men, after all. I realized this during development, but this game's audience isn't necessarily just men. Women can play this game and enjoy it, too, or at least the women around me can. (laughs)

As much as men like "power fantasies" where they play strong, muscular heroes (whereas many are put off by that), many females also like to play strong, sexy heroines (while some will prefer to play less idealized characters). It's not "these designs are only for male gratification" - it might ALSO be part of the design reasoning in some cases, but not excluively. In the end, it's not about how a character dresses but what role a character has (weak damsel or empowered heroine?). A sexy character is not objectifying its' gender! His/her role in the game might, but not their design! In that regard, I'd say the character in Dragon's Crown is not objectifying women since she is a heroine of the game with an empowering role while also being sexy (oh no! Srsly, she'd look out of place if she had a complete regular realistic design compared to the other characters. Her design just fits the overall stylistic theme of the game and Vanilla Ware titles in general).

 

[VanWinkle]

C'mon, his response was obviously saying "Ha you're gay!" What the hell else could be the take-away from that response?! Pretty fucking childish.

I thought he was showing how equally exaggerated the male characters were?

 

[Kokonoe]

It's funny to me that there is FAR more discussion about cup size than gameplay for this game.

I wonder what that says about the game?

lol

 

[web01]

Kamitani is awesome! Kotaku's jouralism / Schreier's defenders here of Gaf are pathetic though.

 

[Persona86]

off topic: is the code of princess one actually done by nishimura? it doesnt have that washed out coloring look to the her other works and it stands out as the odd duck in that little group of pictures. With saying that i love her art the fire emblem one being the stand out of that group

Ah I think your right, I just found it from a quick google search, but I think it's fan art of her original version.

I removed it now.

And yeah I like the fire emblem one too.

 

[Alucrid]

Naked? I see no penis. They're just wrestling.

Well obviously you can't see a penis. It's busy somewhere.

But really, his comment from the picture says it all.

 

[Delusibeta]

No it's exactly what he said.

Stop trolling.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

off topic: is the code of princess one actually done by nishimura? it doesnt have that washed out coloring look to the her other works and it stands out as the odd duck in that little group of pictures. With saying that i love her art the fire emblem one being the stand out of that group

The hanko on the pic you linked says Nishimura Kinu :V
edit: Oh wait, you were referring to some other pic.

 

[onilink88]

Because it looks a lot like foreplay.

Unbelievable.

 

[sprsk]

3 men on top of each other winking and naked.

What else could it mean?

I think this is something that needs to be clarified by him (if it is just saying hey gay dude hurhurr then he should apologize).

But in Japan naked men bathing together or whatever is hardly gay and actually pretty normal. So take that for what it's worth.

I personally can read it as just simply saying if half naked women offend you then how about half naked men. Which is still iffy contextwise, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty and all that.

 

[Skilletor]

I wonder what that says about the game?

lol

Nothing at all since it looks pretty swank. Seems people just like to talk about sexification since I'm sure a lot of the people posting about cup size didn't post anything in the dwarf video reveal.

What's going on in this thread? No boobs? Nothing to post about, then!

I thought he was showing how equally exaggerated the male characters were?

That's what I thought.

 

[Tummi Gummi]

Or maybe....JUST maybe...He just felt like it?

Or maybe it was for fanservice....I just hate the idea that if you like this style...you are basically a 14 year old boy.

I am a goddam 24 year old man. It's insulting as fuck to be constantly called a child.

That is the most childish part of this whole thing.

When I was in school, you were a "kid" if you liked Pokemon and shit. That sucked.

But as I grew up I realized that liking what I like was pretty goddam adult like.

What the fuck is this? Grade School all over.

Getting in a big tissy over what someone else likes and calling them a child for it...is far more childish.

http://mail.scu.edu.tw/~jmklassen/scu99b/chlitgrad/3ways.pdf

Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.

Reminds me a bit of the Overstrike/FUSE controversy. Who was complaining about Overstrike looking "too childish"? The 12-yr-old boys in EA's focus groups, which Insomniac used as justification for the change in tone since "even" teenagers thought it was "too childish". They conveniently ignored the fact that of out of all age groups, teenagers are by far the most insecure and obsessed with being viewed as adults.

 

[erpg]

Is mustache teasing foreplay a thing?

 

[red13th]

He should have used this character:

Instead of dwarves.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Is it less offensive to mock anyone who finds breasts attractive? It's "juvenile" if you like any erotic art now. Somehow it's become perfectly fine to mock people's sexuality and sexual expression if they're straight males. It's actually considered progressive.

/thread

(Also, pretty sure this artist isn't a reputable (lol) blogger on a well known news site... I mean blog)

 

[sorakirosaki]

Yeah, this is just not true at all. There are enough female comic book and illustration artists who draw characters the same way. There are also many female hentai artists, and I don't think they're forced to draw hentai. For a more curious example, you are aware that, for example, the designers for the costumes in Dead or Alive are not an all male team:

From an old Famitsu Interview on Dead or Alive XBV with Itagaki:

Q: What else did women have to say about the game?

I: Well, just within our company, a lot of the people who thought up the swimsuit designs were actually women. Most of the really extreme designs were done by women. (laughs) Women have a lot more knowledge and sense about these things than men, after all. I realized this during development, but this game's audience isn't necessarily just men. Women can play this game and enjoy it, too, or at least the women around me can. (laughs)

As much as men like "power fantasies" where they play strong, muscular heroes (whereas many are put off by that), many females also like to play strong, sexy heroines (while some will prefer to play less idealized characters). It's not "these designs are only for male gratification" - at all. In the end, it's not about how a character dresses but what role a character has (weak damsel or empowered heroine?). A sexy character is not objectifying its' gender! His/her role in the game might, but not their design! In that regard, I'd say the character in Dragon's Crown is not objectifying women since she is a heroine of the game with an empowering role while also being sexy (oh no!).

offtopic : I am still kind of shock from a female friend of mine liking the queens blade and witch blade anime

 

[Reversed]

Kamitani is awesome! Kotaku's jouralism / Schreier's defenders here of Gaf are pathetic though.

It's not even journalism. That's sensationalism, for shame.

 

[TheSeks]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-o9MGphc_jgw/UVSo11dql8I/AAAAAAAALIo/IWWSBoxTDFg/s1600/thumbs-up.gif

Works on so many levels this response.

 

[LiK]

I think this is something that needs to be clarified by him (if it is just saying hey gay dude hurhurr then he should apologize).

But in Japan naked men bathing together or whatever is hardly gay and actually pretty normal. So take that for what it's worth.

I personally can read it as just simply saying if half naked women offend you then how about half naked men. Which is still iffy contextwise, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Well at least we now know Kamitani hates Jason.

 

[partyphone]

That's a reach. I think it's mostly that he can , has, and will sexualize everything. No one or thing is safe.

Okay? The point of the guy's post was to say "if you don't like sexualized women here are some sexualized men". The clear implication is that Jason is gay.

 

[Aeana]

Naked? I see no penis. They're just wrestling.

So, I'm curious. What do you think his intent was with that picture?

 

[Kokonoe]

Nothing at all since it looks pretty swank. Seems people just like to talk about sexification since I'm sure a lot of the people posting about cup size didn't post anything in the dwarf video reveal.

What's going on in this thread? No boobs? Nothing to post about, then!

Well, I have no idea how good this game is as I've never tried it, but at the end of the day one of the main selling points to this game is indeed sexualized characters. Sex sells.

I'd imagine the game's thread and news threads would end up like Dungeon Fighter, Double Dragon Remake, and that 8bit anime beat-em-up coming to 360 if it didn't have ecchi characters.

 

[Soriku]

Sexy bodies? With breasts that large, she shouldn't even be able to move. I'm amazed that people on GAF are defending this clown when he blatantly insinuated that Schreier is homosexual based on the fact that he doesn't like the unnecessary sexualization of virtual women. Think of it this way: how does the sorceress character benefit from looking the way she does? Had her breasts been significantly smaller in size, would the game be any different? Of course not, she was deliberately designed this way for a reason, and that was to pander to easily aroused 14 year-old boys. I don't blame Schreier for being frustrated, and Kamitani's juvenile response doesn't make the situation any better.

Dude. It's just an art style. We have women with huge boobs and muscles, a dwarf with muscles on his muscles' muscles, a buff Fighter dude who's actually bishonen-looking, etc.

It's not pandering. This isn't My Little Sister is Cute levels. It's just an exaggerated art style that's fit for the game, and characters from both sexes are exaggerated.

I like it because it looks cool. Big boobs don't bother me. Why would they?

 

[nailbombxx]

I wonder what that says about the game?

lol

It says nothing about the game, it just shows how people can think they're being heroic for trying to stand up for something that's not being encroached upon.

 

[partyphone]

Unbelievable.

What's sad is that people like you are completely believable. It's pathetic how predictable threads like these are.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

lol, the perfect response.

 

[Takamura-San]

I think this is something that needs to be clarified by him (if it is just saying hey gay dude hurhurr then he should apologize).

But in Japan naked men bathing together or whatever is hardly gay and actually pretty normal. So take that for what it's worth.

I personally can read it as just simply saying if half naked women offend you then how about half naked men. Which is still iffy contextwise, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Let's pretend that i have an issue with how woman are portrayed in Baywatch.

The creator responds with a picture of 3 half naked men and implies this would better suit my taste.

I don't know how much cultural differences can take you on this.

 

[Dead Man]

I don't see how that has anything to do with this game. If Kamitani (or whoever in charge of character design) was a woman, this whole thing wouldn't be considered a problem?

Or were you talking about media in general?

Media in general. I was responding to a post that said sexy women is a good thing. I agree it is, I just said that there are legitimate concerns about the amount influence women actually have in this sometimes.

90% of GAF is people complaining about shit that doesn't need to be complained about. You're entirely correct. Walk into any thread here and you'll probably see an argument that doesn't matter or a stupid debate that has no answer because the subject being discussed is entirely based on preference.

And if you're referring to the sexism point when you say people have other motivations of talking negatively about DC then I think its been covered pretty well how the game isn't sexist. Both genders are treated equally in the game and anyone finding sexism in this game is actively blinding themselves so the game reflects their agenda.

We were discussing motivations for complaints, not validity of complaints. Just because it is something you don't see as valid, does not mean they are doing some subversive, deceptive posting when they say they are concerned.

I am coming close to thinking your posts in this thread are included in the 90% that you think are just based on preference and shouldn't be made. Stupid debates with no answer are fine. It's what discussion are made from.

 

[LuchaShaq]

The character design is 100% of the reason why I'm not buying the game.

Personally I don't care if male or female characters are butt ass naked, but in this case they are so so disgustingly deformed that is is completely distracting and cringeworthy whenever I see people post the gifs and drooling over them for some disturbing reason or another.

 

[sorakirosaki]

I have to say i learned quite a bit on the mentality of both sides and will take this into consideration when it comes to designing characters

 

[MechaX]

So, I'm curious. What do you think his intent was with that picture?

That's personally the main thing I'm wrestling with in this entire fiasco.

It would be one thing to simply draw the Conan-looking dude. But he instead draws three naked bearded dwarves.

 

[sonicmj1]

I think this is something that needs to be clarified by him (if it is just saying hey gay dude hurhurr then he should apologize).

But in Japan naked men bathing together or whatever is hardly gay and actually pretty normal. So take that for what it's worth.

I personally can read it as just simply saying if half naked women offend you then how about half naked men. Which is still iffy contextwise, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty and all that.

That's how I feel.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but now that I saw the actual Facebook post (instead of the slightly inaccurate copy-paste in the OP), it's harder to defend.

 

[nailbombxx]

Well, I have no idea how good this game is as I've never tried it, but at the end of the day one of the main selling points to this game is indeed sexualized characters. Sex sells.

I'd imagine the game's thread and news threads would end up like Dungeon Fighter, Double Dragon Remake, and that 8bit anime beat-em-up coming to 360 if it didn't have ecchi characters.

You act like this game should be porn or something. The main selling point is that it is a high fantasy D&D style beat 'em up with a beautiful art style and animations. The attractive women are like a cherry on top.

 

[suzu]

Kamitani might be implying that the article writer is gay for not liking the sorceress, but he didn't say "fag". Come on. I look at his reply as a bad and childish joke.

 

[dacuk]

Why do people care so much about sex? Violence is aok, but exaggerated bust lines are childish? Please.

Welcome to America's moral double standards, where violence is everywhere, but sex is taboo to nth circle of Hell

 

[Uthred]

I'll give you that it was poorly worded. But there's nothing ambiguous about it.

What do you think those three guys are doing in that picture? Because it looks a lot like foreplay.

Its certainly ambiguous, the original "article" complained that all the artwork was of sexualised women, the artist drew a picture of sexualised men as a tongue in cheek counterpoint. You're the one reading into it.

Also, perhaps we could stop referring to insinuations of homosexuality as "insults"?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

wwwwww

 

[aeolist]

wtf

how can you people think this is ok

 

[Alucrid]

Kamitani is awesome! Kotaku's jouralism / Schreier's defenders here of Gaf are pathetic though.

I guess creating an imagined defense force is the new way of attempting to debase those who disagree with you.

 

[Soriku]

That's personally the main thing I'm wrestling with in this entire fiasco.

It would be one thing to simply draw the Conan-looking dude. But he instead draws three naked bearded dwarves.

It's reeeeeeeeeally obvious what response he was going for lol.

"You don't like these women? Do these men suit your tastes better?"

Classy joke aimed at a dumb article. You may consider it childish though.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Life is too short to get angry over big boobs or muscle men.

 

[QisTopTier]

That's personally the main thing I'm wrestling with in this entire fiasco.

It would be one thing to simply draw the Conan-looking dude. But he instead draws three naked bearded dwarves.

obviously he wanted to show character alts

 

[LiK]

So, I'm curious. What do you think his intent was with that picture?

"Repulsed by my female art? I can also draw men."

 

[R_thanatos]

Who needs weapons when you can just chest ram enemies and then toss them around like a ragdoll?

This just show me how freaking great the game is in motion ...

and that's all i need.

 

[onilink88]

What's sad is that people like you are completely believable. It's pathetic how predictable threads like these are.

People like me?

 

[Aeana]

"Repulsed by my female art? I can also draw men."

The art that repulsed him was a single woman. The response could have been a single man. Why wasn't it?

 

[Kokonoe]

You act like this game should be porn or something. The main selling point is that it is a high fantasy D&D style beat 'em up with a beautiful art style and animations. The attractive women are like a cherry on top.

I didn't say that at all. Attractive doesn't equate to nearly naked, hence Ecchi.

It's main selling point is that it's a video game, that is obvious, but that doesn't change what the other main selling point is. Either or not you like that is up to you, I'm merely stating what it is.