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[BlazingDarkness]

Yes, people get up in arms about the most pointless stuff. Like some random blog writer talking about a game.

But an insult involving sexual orientation is not pointless.

Yes it is, any kind of backhanded insult is pointless. Schreier made an article shitting on Kamitani, so Kamitani drew a picture questioning his sexuality. Both are dumb and thoughtless, but feigning outrage because it brings up sexuality is inane.

 

[Dambrosi]

Most of these issues are not part of the games themselves, but the "real world" treatment of females in the industry and online games. Telling people who enjoy this kind of artwork that they're immature and mocking the artist only makes the fire bigger. Actually, I find it more offensive that games featuring playable female characters seem to fail becoming huge sellers only because of a playable female (at least according to marketing...), a fantasy world is only cool as long as their are no sexualised females and I always get the feeling that many people in the industry are not really comfortable with sexuality -at all- when it comes to content in videogames. I seldom heard these kinds of complaints whenever a new movie like Planet Terror or the like comes out, but for videogames, these examples get singled out all the time -_-

Truth bombs, right here, especially the last bolded part. It's as if they're afraid of what their parents/girlfriends/wives/bosses will think. Not exactly refuting the notion of the gamer as a socially awkward virgin, are you, guys?

Best post in this thread

Thanks for this.

 

[Alucrid]

There's a difference between making a legitimate inference and twisting something solely so that you can be outraged and then complain about it on a message board.

Nothing is being twisted, but you're certainly stretching.

 

[aeolist]

Yes it is, any kind of backhanded insult is pointless. Schreier made an article shitting on Kamitani, so Kamitani drew a picture questioning his sexuality. Both are dumb and thoughtless, but feigning outrage because it brings up sexuality is inane.

letting people get away with homophobic slurs perpetuates homophobia

i don't see how this is hard to understand

 

[tafer]

It is using an accusation of homosexuality as an insult. It should be clear why that is offensive. It means the person saying it considers being gay to be insulting.

Assuming that/wondering if someone is homosexual is an insult?

because it's using someone's presumed sexual orientation as a slur, and it's presuming that sexual orientation entirely based on the fact that the person in question finds some of the most sexist female art i've ever seen in games to be offensive

Where is the slur?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

I can't believe anyone thinks the response was not a juvenile attempt to call JS gay. Sure, it could mean something else, but the far most reasonable reading is that this is a pictorial version of "ur gay!"

I was on the fence about buying this game as is. I mostly play my Vita on my commute, and as a 34 year old professional I simply would not be comfortable with other adults watching me play as the sorceress or amazon. But what appears to be a juvenile and homophobic outburst from the designer means I definitely won't buy.

'homophobic outburst'

Ugh, I can't with this thread.

 

[Bravo_Jade]

I guess, but if you act humorless you certainly invite the observation of such.

The only thing the artist proved (other than he doesn't take things too seriously) is that the game's men are muscular and sexualized as well as the women. Which should be a-okay with people who aren't afraid of skin and such.

Yes, he did prove the writer's insinuation that he's immature. If you don't want to admit that then you're just willfully ignoring the context and comment of the picture.

 

[ciridesu]

Did you not read his comment that went along with the picture?

Yeah I did. Tell me, how should I infer this extremely unclear comment? Should I make rash conclusions, especially considering when it's made by a foreign person who is not extremely literal in English?

I agree with you, but I'll be part of the problem too...

I'm also sick about the whole argument repeated over and over again whenever a female character with big bossoms and revealing clothing pops up in non-realistic fantasy/b-movie style videogames. There are far more pressing gender issues in the realm of videogames than an oversexualised character in an over the top-fantasy world where everyone looks like some sort of parody of tropes and styles. Most of these issues are not part of the games themselves, but the "real world" treatment of females in the industry and online games. Telling people who enjoy this kind of artwork that they're immature and mocking the artist only makes the fire bigger. Actually, I find it more offensive that games featuring playable female characters seem to fail becoming huge sellers only because of a playable female (at least according to marketing...), a fantasy world is only cool as long as their are no sexualised females and I always get the feeling that many people in the industry are not really comfortable with sexuality -at all- when it comes to content in videogames. I seldom heard these kinds of complaints whenever a new movie like Planet Terror or the like comes out, but for videogames, these examples get singled out all the time -_-

To all the "Kamitani is also immature"-crowd people: I don't think he implied "lol gay" but instead implied "ok, here, take those bulky strong males that aren't looked down upon when it comes to character design" and he uses bodybuilder-style bears for that. For some reason, these seem to be quite popular in Japan and I'm not that much in on the joke, but I really don't think his response was meant homophobic in any way.

And this. I honestly don't understand why sexualizing women is considered such a taboo in gaming. Is it shame or what? Why is it that in movies, where the audience is very proportional between women and men, sexualizing both men and women is fine, but in gaming, where the audience is primarily men, sexualizing both to a similar degree is wrong? Yes, we have hot, muscular guys, without shirts, and that's cool. I love me some Kratos and all. But oh no, we have beautiful hot girls with big boobs and fuck it's sexist and it pin-points gamers as horny basement nerds. Is there something wrong with aesthetic characters per se (every male and female character tends to be on the beautiful side, but it's only wrong with women?). Like I mentioned earlier, I have no clue, why people view the trend of sexualizing women to be somehow insulting. Most men don't give a fuck when male characters are sexualized, and take enjoyment when female characters are. And vice versa, women see the situation extremely similarly.

 

[Metrotab]

some of the most sexist female art i've ever seen

Could you explain to me how you find the character design sexist?

 

[AlimNassor]

Giant oversized breasts on a skinny girl and giant eluding misshapen muscles on half naked men. Not very appealing. I find both rather nauseating. I don't like giant ass muscles, they look kinda gross.

 

[Tummi Gummi]

I'm curious what Kotaku's response will be:

A: "I didn't mean anything by it, was just a joke."

B: "Dragon's Crown developer arouses anger with homophobic art."

C: "Why are Japanese developers so sexist? Kotaku investigates!"

 

[Takamura-San]

Even assuming the if, why is that offensive?

You mean to tell me that if a dude comes to me a says: "I don't like how this bikini is too revealing on this woman, I don't find it tasteful."

I should be able to retort:

"Well, it is tasteful and the reason you're wrong is because you're gay"

 

[shysaursoft]

But what appears to be a juvenile and homophobic outburst from the designer means I definitely won't buy.

Artist draws giant burly muscle bear dwarves. Is accused of being homophobic.

 

[Knux-Future]

This thread is bad.

We have people putting words in each other's mouths.

Hopefully the OT isn't full of this shit.

The Amazon trailer thread should be round 5 of this...sadly.

 

[B-Dex]

To me it seems just like a childish retort to the childish "article". I'd put them on blast for "writing" that too.

 

[aeolist]

Could you explain to me how you find the character design sexist?

the extreme detail and animation of the unrealistically oversized and exposed breasts perhaps?

 

[Wellscha]

No wonder why the shift is non existent, too many people are defending this crap.

 

[Meccanical]

I find it offensive that people find the beauty of the male form a joke.

 

[Gravijah]

Yes it is, any kind of backhanded insult is pointless. Schreier made an article shitting on Kamitani, so Kamitani drew a picture questioning his sexuality. Both are dumb and thoughtless, but feigning outrage because it brings up sexuality is inane.

To say that others are feigning outrage is both disingenuous and insulting. What reason would there be?

 

[Kade]

I'm curious what Kotaku's response will be:

A: "I didn't mean anything by it, was just a joke."

B: "Dragon's Crown developer arouses anger with homophobic art."

C: "Why are Japanese developers so sexist? Kotaku investigates!"

D. "I'm not gay!"

 

[Dead Man]

Assuming that/wondering if someone is homosexual is an insult?

Did you read the post I was replying too? Here:

:/ If he was calling him gay because he didn't like that particular art, yeah, it's pretty offensive. Before you rush off to dismiss me, notice the 'if'.

Even assuming the if, why is that offensive?

It is using an accusation of homosexuality as an insult. It should be clear why that is offensive. It means the person saying it considers being gay to be insulting.

So no, of course wonder if someone is gay or even assuming someone is gay are not insults. When you use it as an insult then it is insulting. Surprise!

 

[SolidSnakex]

the extreme detail and animation of the unrealistically oversized and exposed breasts perhaps?

They aren't unrealistic in size, no matter how much you want to believe that they are. As some have already pointed out, there are real women with breasts as large, if not larger than that. And i'm talking about natural breasts.

 

[Alucrid]

Yeah I did. Tell me, how should I infer this extremely unclear comment? Should I make rash conclusions, especially considering when it's made by a foreign person who is not extremely literal in English?

You seem like a fairly smart person with a good grasp on the English language, I'm sure you can figure it out for yourself.

 

[Kai Dracon]

'homophobic outburst'

Ugh, I can't with this thread.

But people are A-OK with family / boss watching them play as super burly oiled up dwarfs that strut around and fling themselves bodily at everything that moves.

 

[GraveRobberX]

the extreme detail and animation of the unrealistically oversized and exposed breasts perhaps?

THERE ARE BIGGER BREAST IN THE REAL FUCKING WORLD

HOLY FUCK, ALL OF YOU INEPT PEOPLE... IT"S A FUCKING GAME!

This forum pushes games as art agenda and now wants to tear it fucking down for just doing that

Holy Fuck!

 

[Metrotab]

the extreme detail and animation of the unrealistically oversized and exposed breasts perhaps?

Doesn't look out of place when compared to the extreme detail and animation of the unrealistically oversized and exposed muscles on the Dwarf. It fits the artistic vision behind the game.

 

[hgarrett54]

That's the particular art style that they went with for the game, and it's certainly not limited to the female characters either. The male characters look just as ridiculous (as seen in the OP).

So?.... I don't get what the problem is.

I mean, sure, you can dislike the aesthetics of the game, no problem. But why make an article about it pretty much insulting it?

 

[Alucrid]

THERE ARE BIGGER BREAST IN THE REAL FUCKING WORLD

HOLY FUCK, ALL OF YOU INEPT PEOPLE... IT"S A FUCKING GAME!

This forum pushes games as art agenda and now wants to tear it fucking down for just doing that

Holy Fuck!

http://i.imgur.com/fGN9VqW.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

You completely miss the issue and you're calling us inept? 99% of the people don't really give a fuck about the art style and a unique art style doesn't give a game a free pass to 'art' in my opinion either. I highly doubt this will be lauded as such.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Artist draws giant burly muscle bear dwarves. Is accused of being homophobic.

He's obviously doing it ironically.

Spoiler

lol

 

[Dyno]

letting people get away with homophobic slurs perpetuates homophobia

i don't see how this is hard to understand

I think it's bullshit that only one person in this exchange is being held to a politically correct standard because what was inferred (not said) set off some kind of gay trigger.

The guy didn't call anyone a faggot or a homo. He just said that maybe he will like the guy drawings better. An apt response when your efforts are being thoughtlessly shitted on and mischaracterized.

 

[tafer]

You mean to tell me that if a dude comes to me a says: "I don't like how this bikini is too revealing on this woman, I don't find it tasteful."

I should be able to retort:

"Well, it is tasteful and the reason you're wrong is because you're gay"

"Well, since you are gay I'm not expecting you to appreciate it."
Same stuff and doesn't sounds offensive.

Did you read the post I was replying too? Here:




So no, of course wonder if someone is gay or even assuming someone is gay are not insults. When you use it as an insult then it is insulting. Surprise!

Again, where is the insult, slur?

 

[Persona86]

THERE ARE BIGGER BREAST IN THE REAL FUCKING WORLD

Indeed, I've also seen some HUUUUGE butts in real life too, the truth is out there.

 

[aeolist]

Doesn't look out of place when compared to the extreme detail and animation of the unrealistically oversized and exposed muscles on the Dwarf. It fits the artistic vision behind the game.

the existence of straight male privilege in modern society means that objectification of women is more harmful than that of men

it's ok guys i just won the thread you can all go home now

.

 

[Wellscha]

THERE ARE BIGGER BREAST IN THE REAL FUCKING WORLD

HOLY FUCK, ALL OF YOU INEPT PEOPLE... IT"S A FUCKING GAME!

This forum pushes games as art agenda and now wants to tear it fucking down for just doing that

Holy Fuck!

I rest my case.

 

[AlimNassor]

I really wish people would start getting offended that men are only attracted to giant breasts. The real issue is why aren't more women having nice normal sized breasts? Giant breasts are disgusting, how can anyone tell me a giant pair are better then a normal sized pair?

Much like how smaller muscles >>>> giant muscles. A man that is skinny but well toned beats out a giant muscle bound giant. It's why i never found body builders appealing.

 

[Thoraxes]

This is incredible.

 

[Kokonoe]

I think it's bullshit that only one person in this exchange is being held to a politically correct standard because what some inferred (not said) set off some kind of gay trigger.

The guy didn't call anyone a faggot or a homo. He just said that maybe he will like the guy drawings better. An apt response when your efforts are being thoughtlessly shitted on and mischaracterized.

You have not been reading this thread then. You also do not have to be politically correct to dislike that.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Could you explain to me how you find the character design sexist?

because the females are the only ones in this game that are exaggerated to ridiculous levels!!


...ohh wait....

the extreme detail and animation of the unrealistically oversized and exposed breasts perhaps?

I would find it sexist if everyone else was normal proportions and every female character had the same figure.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I rest my case.

Do you call that an argument?

 

[Knux-Future]

It was a joke.

A potentially poor taste one...but a joke.

Not everything is an attack.

the extreme detail and animation of the unrealistically oversized and exposed breasts perhaps?

You do understand that not everything has to be realistic right? especially in a game where magic is a thing?

It is video games. Do you lose your shit when Link gets slashed and go "he should be dead...this is unrealistic yo" or How the fuck does Cloud wield his giant ass sword?

it's an artitistic choice...regardless the reason for that choice. You don't like it for whatever reason? cool. But c'mon.

No wonder why the shift is non existent, too many people are defending this crap.

Because people enjoy this stuff you call crap and are tired of people called names because of it?

Different Strokes homie.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

THERE ARE BIGGER BREAST IN THE REAL FUCKING WORLD

HOLY FUCK, ALL OF YOU INEPT PEOPLE... IT"S A FUCKING GAME!

This forum pushes games as art agenda and now wants to tear it fucking down for just doing that

Holy Fuck!

You're better than this.

Or, at least, were.

 

[Alucrid]

Do you call that an argument?

No, I imagine he calls that a joke.

 

[Risible]

I think it's bullshit that only one person in this exchange is being held to a politically correct standard because what was inferred (not said) set off some kind of gay trigger.

The guy didn't call anyone a faggot or a homo. He just said that maybe he will like the guy drawings better. An apt response when your efforts are being thoughtlessly shitted on and mischaracterized.

Schreier writes an article talking about how women are portrayed in Kamitan's game. Kamitan responds with a picture of three men acting seductively and says "Maybe this more to your liking." What else are you supposed to take away from that?! It's being disingenuous to suggest it's anything but a glorified haha ur gay response. Just because he didn't spell it out doesn't mean that he can't be taken to task for it.

 

[Uthred]

Like most of these topics this is just going round in circles, its two entrenched camps screaming at one another over their own interpretations of next to nothing. So I'll bow out after this, got that bus to catch after all.

Hey, Uthred, your bus is here.

By your reasoning you don't have the right to read anything into what I posted. Do you? I just want you to leave this thread and I'm showing you a vehicle to do it with.

If you're going to object to my reasoning it would be best if you actually understood it. Perhaps by being overly facetious my intent was obscured. So to spell it out, people have the right to interpret whatever they want however they want, they just shouldnt put forward their interpretation of an ambiguous situation as objective fact. Which now that I have spelled it out seems almost too prosaic to even bother saying in the first place.

Using accusations of being gay as an insult certainly is.

Again, we dont know if it was intended as an insult. Though, in general, while accusing someone of being gay isnt an insult per se (despite intent), as theres nothing wrong with being gay, the fact that the person using the insult thinks its an insult is indeed a problem. But we dont know if that was the case here.

Well, Mr. Kamitani is basically implying that the only valid reason that Jason may have an issue with the sorceress picture is because he likes men.

Nope, there are plenty of other interpreations of Mr Kamitani's response that dont interpet it as either a) an insult, b) a veiled accusation of homosexuality or c) both.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

No, I imagine he calls that a joke.

I don't know anymore in this thread...

 

[V_Arnold]

I rest my case.

Yeah, that one is really a shocker. It either has a small head syndrome or a heavily deformed spine sindrome, combined with some serious overgrowth.

It is fine to like the artstyle of this game, imho, but it is not fine to laugh at those that dislike it, because, let us face it, real women and men do NOT look like this. Yeah, there are bigger boobs in real world. Usually those are accompanied by LARGE amount of fat as well that kinda fuels the possibility. Or some disorder OR surgery.

 

[AkuMifune]

Kotaku was right, but snarky. So they deserved a retort and it's fun they got one, but the response was either spiteful or tongue-in-cheek. It's hard to tell if it was meant in good humor, but I doubt it. Which makes it mean!

Still, Schreier has it coming. He likes to play all sides, and it's going to burn him.

 

[aeolist]

i know this is rly hard for you people to understand

but

sexism against women is a bigger problem than sexism against men

it may not seem "fair" to you but women being an oppressed class for most of recorded history and still being underprivileged compared to men is actually less fair so you can go fuck yourselves if you don't like it

 

[Maxim726X]

Do you call that an argument?

Almost as plausible as the rest of the bullshit being spewed in this thread, so why not?

 

[Dead Man]

"Well, since you are gay I'm not expecting you to appreciate it."
Same stuff and doesn't sounds offensive.



Again, where is the insult, slur?

You don't follow that? The insult is saying have some gay sex since you don't like this style of woman. I don't know how to make it clearer, sorry.

Again, we dont know if it was intended as an insult. Though, in general, while accusing someone of being gay isnt an insult per se (despite intent), as theres nothing wrong with being gay, the fact that the person using the insult thinks its an insult is indeed a problem. But we dont know if that was the case here.

That is some convoluted logic LOL It's only a problem because the person being insulted thinks they're being insulted when they weren't being insulted. There is nothing wrong with being gay, that is exactly WHY using it as an insult is derogatory.