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[Thoraxes]

How the fuck can it be downgraded when it has never been shown

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=441156

 

[Curufinwe]

If it wasn´t before, PSV is in trouble now. I honestly see now chance for success in a world where the PSV costs the same as a PS3. THIS is the most direct competition Sony will face now. People will see this, see that the PS3 gets them a BluRay-player, better graphics, etc. and buy it instead of that handheld.

Will be extremely surprised if the PSV has any kind of continued high sales-numbers beyond its launch-period.

You realize the price will go down some time after the launch period, right? It won't be stuck at $250 forever. It might not even still be $250 at Christmas 2012.

 

[Gravijah]

You realize the price will go down after the launch period, right? It won't be stuck at $250 forever. It might not even still be $250 at Christmas 2011.

Christmas 2012 you mean?

 

[Jomjom]

Christmas 2012 you mean?

I hope Christmas 2011, because that would mean Sony would be making the smart move by dropping the price pre-launch rather than botching it a la Nintendo.

 

[Jinfash]

At this point I'm willing to predict that there's no real third party Western support.

How can you criticize the awesomeness of a new Assassin's Creed*, a new Bioshock**, and Call of Duty***?

*That doesn't formally exist yet as anything other than a bullet point
**That doesn't formally exist yet as anything other than a bullet point
***That doesn't formally exist yet as anything other than a bullet point, and may not even be a new game

Two of the many third party logos titles titles shown during the presentation belonged to Gameloft Studios. Feels bad man.

 

[Opiate]

As I said when there was positive Vita news (and positive 3DS news, and negative 3DS news), I think the market is too volatile and mutable to make very accurate predictions at the moment. Look how quickly the 3DS changed in public perception from world crusher to failure. Phone gaming may continue to have an impact on dedicated handheld gaming -- or maybe it won't, as PC gaming certainly has killed dedicated home consoles.

The most prudent choice is to simply wait and see. Most people don't follow that prudential advice, because it's boring, but so is investing your money instead of spending it all on new toys -- boring choices are often the right ones. Just wait and see.

 

[Zoramon089]

I honestly think that despite the Vita being a powerful machine western devs will still look at it as a portable, as not being worth developing for because it's not among the "strongest" machines and, once again, japanese devs will provide the primary support for handhelds

 

[Mr_Brit]

After the press conference I've now shifted from Vita is the greatest platform ever made to Vita is most likely doomed. Downgraded RAM(not certain but most likely), no third party support, relatively high price, vaporware titles, awful, awful first party titles like Resistance and reality fighters and most likely bad support from Sony in the future who will put PS3/PS4 ahead of Vita all adds up to a bleak future. I really hope Vita pulls through as it has the potential to be the greatest handheld ever.

 

[Jinfash]

Correct, but there are certain persons who maintained that it would get better Western support than any previous dedicated handheld, largely by virtue of shared console middleware.

It is very obvious at this point that many 3rd party pubs are taking a wait and see approach before they pull some of their resources from iOS and social games.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Christmas 2012 you mean?

Haha, he stealth edited. And yeah, price will drop fast from what I gathered. Let's see if it's that fast... then again, I can't see them waiting until Christmas 2013 so maybe.

 

[Curufinwe]

I fixed a typo, but was quoted seconds after I posted so it wasn't in time. Obviously I meant Christmas 2012 because the Vita won't even be available in the US in 2011.

 

[Luckyman]

After the press conference I've now shifted from Vita is the greatest platform ever made to Vita is most likely doomed.

Wow, you sure love to kneejerk drama.

Looks like you expected that they announce next GTA Vita Exclusive

 

[demosthenes]

Wow, you sure love to kneejerk drama.

Looks like you expected that they announce next GTA Vita Exclusive

Or expected SOME type of 3rd party presence.

Talking about 3rd parties and showing icons on a giant screen does not equate to 3rd party support.

 

[madmaxx350]

I need to see the upgraded OS on the Vita. I do hope Sony has some kind of conference after the holiday season to announce what their launch plans for the West are going to be, maybe we'll see those at TGS and OMG at the lack of 3rd Party reveals.

Rayman day 1 in any case. And when was the last time Sony had a big third party demo in their conference ?

After the press conference I've now shifted from Vita is the greatest platform ever made to Vita is most likely doomed. Downgraded RAM(not certain but most likely), no third party support, relatively high price, vaporware titles, awful, awful first party titles like Resistance and reality fighters and most likely bad support from Sony in the future who will put PS3/PS4 ahead of Vita all adds up to a bleak future. I really hope Vita pulls through as it has the potential to be the greatest handheld ever.

I wouldn't go that far but I kinda agree and also will we have to wait until after TGS for 3rd Parties to release infos, vids about their games?

 

[Jin34]

It is very obvious at this point that many 3rd party pubs are taking a wait and see approach before they pull some of their resources from iOS and social games.

The old Nintendo/3rd party Catch-22.

 

[kadotsu]

As I said when there was positive Vita news (and positive 3DS news, and negative 3DS news), I think the market is too volatile and mutable to make very accurate predictions at the moment. Look how quickly the 3DS changed in public perception from world crusher to failure. Phone gaming may continue to have an impact on dedicated handheld gaming -- or maybe it won't, as PC gaming certainly has killed dedicated home consoles.

The most prudent choice is to simply wait and see. Most people don't follow that prudential advice, because it's boring, but so is investing your money instead of spending it all on new toys -- boring choices are often the right ones. Just wait and see.

Way to reasonable for my bipolar mind.

 

[antonz]

I think people expecting serious 3rd party support were delusional to begin with. Vita is going to have to prove itself before anyone outside of Sonys minions take it serious.

I dont doubt lots of port opportunities present itself to publishers but even ports cost money and they want to know it will be recovered

 

[weeskwee]

I already know the system rocks. I didn't need another con to prove anything else to me. All it proves is Sony Euro sucks at throwing press conferences.

 

[Jinfash]

I think people expecting serious 3rd party support were delusional to begin with. Vita is going to have to prove itself before anyone outside of Sonys minions take it serious.

I dont doubt lots of port opportunities present itself to publishers but even ports cost money and they want to know it will be recovered

"Sony's minions"? That sounds almost as bad as "nintards."

Take it back.

 

[antonz]

"Sony's minions"? That sounds almost as bad as "nintards."

Take it back.

I was referring to their development studios not fans

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It means when it launched in America in 2005, it cost $250, which is less in real dollars than the Vita will cost when it launches in America.

America = World? Your launch price wasn't the same price everyone else paid. I'm going by the very first day that the PSP hit retail shelves and gamers could play the system.

Except you couldn't save any progress.

Now tell me how that stopped games from being played. You could still put a UMD in the drive and the game would power up. The launch price is what is is. Should we add the cost of HDMI cables to the PS3 launch price? How about memory cards to the launch price of the PS2? No. The price is what it is.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

As I said when there was positive Vita news (and positive 3DS news, and negative 3DS news), I think the market is too volatile and mutable to make very accurate predictions at the moment. Look how quickly the 3DS changed in public perception from world crusher to failure. Phone gaming may continue to have an impact on dedicated handheld gaming -- or maybe it won't, as PC gaming certainly has killed dedicated home consoles.

The most prudent choice is to simply wait and see. Most people don't follow that prudential advice, because it's boring, but so is investing your money instead of spending it all on new toys -- boring choices are often the right ones. Just wait and see.

this.

now im seeing headlines about how 3DS is "soaring" following the price drop. things are flip flopping back and forth so fast that i think all of these analysts are just trying to quickly praise or condemn whoever they can and be the 'first' to predict shit. not to mention people on the innernets.

everyone wants to declare now and then use only the bits of info that fit their case. all i can say is that i want a Vita. i want a 3DS too but i need more games. especially to the extent of me and my girlfriend being unable to take turns with her 3DS. other than that, i will wait.

EDIT: wait wait... are people still saying that $250 is harder to afford these days than in 2005 when PSP hit? you got it backwards.

 

[Jinfash]

I was referring to their development studios not fans

That makes more sense.

Although you have to agree that when they do get frothy they could be mistaken for some.

 

[Curufinwe]

America = World? Your launch price wasn't the same price everyone else paid. I'm going by the very first day that the PSP hit retail shelves and gamers could play the system.



Now tell me how that stopped games from being played. You could still put a UMD in the drive and the game would power up. The launch price is what is is. Should we add the cost of HDMI cables to the PS3 launch price? How about memory cards to the launch price of the PS2? No. The price is what it is.

America is part of the world, not the entire world, and neither is Japan. But you keep acting like the launch price in Japan is the only price that matters.

In America and the EU, combined a far larger market than Japan, the PSV will cost the same as the PSP at launch, less accounting for inflation.

 

[DangerousDave]

America = World? Your launch price wasn't the same price everyone else paid. I'm going by the very first day that the PSP hit retail shelves and gamers could play the system.

The same in Europe, 250€ PSP, 250€ Vita.

The only place where Vita will be slightly more expensive will be Japan, because of the Core pack that they made for PSP.

 

[SkylineRKR]

At this point I'm willing to predict that there's no real third party Western support.

One would think so. It doesn't bode well for the Vita support in the west so far. A pity as the hardware is fairly impressive for a handheld and its layout and online capabilities are suited for typical western games such as FPS, RTS and whatever. The thing has great potential.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

In America and the EU, combined a far larger market than Japan, the PSV will cost the same as the PSP at launch, less accounting for inflation.

No it won't, it will be 5,180 yen more. Remember... which region was the PSP the most successful in and what region did it launch at the lowest price? I really don't know why you are trying to spin this when the facts are the facts.

 

[Baki]

This is what Sony gets for launching a year too late.

 

[googleplex]

After the press conference I've now shifted from Vita is the greatest platform ever made to Vita is most likely doomed. Downgraded RAM(not certain but most likely), no third party support, relatively high price, vaporware titles, awful, awful first party titles like Resistance and reality fighters and most likely bad support from Sony in the future who will put PS3/PS4 ahead of Vita all adds up to a bleak future. I really hope Vita pulls through as it has the potential to be the greatest handheld ever.

Downgraded RAM? Isn't there a thread about the Vita's RAM being confirmed to be 512 main Ram and 128 video Ram? How the fuck is that downgraded?

 

[FoxSpirit]

WTF is that shit? No 3rd party??

3rd party support so far (I left out tons of stuff, only left the somewhat interesting stuff, bolded is of my interest)

Alien Spidy
Rayman
BlazBlue Continuum Shift 2+
Disgaea 3 Returns
Streetfighter x Tekken
Shinobido 2
Dragons Crown
Assassin's Creed (let's see if this will fit the bill)
Oddworld: Munch's Oddysey (launch window)
Oddworld: Strangers Wrath (launch window)
Lumines
Bioshock (maybe)
FIFA 2012
Pro Evolution Soccer
Mortal Kombat
Silent Hill Book of Memories
Rugby Challenge

Is this how no 3rd party support looks like?? Sheeesh.

Downgraded RAM? Isn't there a thread about the Vita's RAM being confirmed to be 512 main Ram and 128 video Ram? How the fuck is that downgraded?

Yes, it's confirmed. There even is a thread for it. *hrgl*

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Downgraded RAM? Isn't there a thread about the Vita's RAM being confirmed to be 512 main Ram and 128 video Ram? How the fuck is that downgraded?

I thought it was silly too but I checked the timing and that post was made before the RAM specs were finalized and posted here.

 

[DangerousDave]

No it won't, it will be 5,180 yen more. Remember... which region was the PSP the most successful in and what region did it launch at the lowest price? I really don't know why you are trying to spin this when the facts are the facts.

Do you really think that the PSP is more succesful NOW in Japan than in the rest of the world is because it launched 7 years ago slightly more cheaper in Japan?

The funny stuff is that you didn't even know that PSP launched at 20k yens in Japan (or at least, it wasn't your argument). You were defending a few posts before that the fact that PSV will be more expensive in Japan is because of the difference of the dollar-yen change between 2004 and 2011 (185$ vs 315$), like if the people in Japan got their salaries in dollars. When I said about the PSP core version, you forgot your previous argument and you stuck with the PSP Core was cheaper argument like a burning nail.

 

[charlequin]

But Sony don't need to sell as much Vita as possible. They need to sell enough Vita with a price that allow them to get benefits for each unit sold, in average.

This is basically the line of thought people ran with about the 3DS price, too, and that very much did not play out in their favor.

Sony don't need to break any sale benchmark. They need to sell enough Vita to keep the thirds on board

These are mutually exclusive. The amount of sales necessary to keep up third-party support are going to be a heck of a lot higher than the level that's technically non-disastrous for Sony alone.

Publishers and developers might jizz over a large install-base, but they'll jizz even more over a more focused and dedicated install-base that will actually buy more than 2 games throughout a console's lifetime.

Ahaha, that's precious.

Systems that sell badly don't produce magical, ultra-dedicated fanbases with ultra-high attach rates to make up for it (see PS3.)

all that says to me there's a group that definitely does it.

There's definitely a group that does it, but as a percentage of the 50 million iPhones sold each year?

 

[iamshadowlark]

How can you criticize the awesomeness of a new Assassin's Creed*, a new Bioshock**, and Call of Duty***?






*That doesn't formally exist yet as anything other than a bullet point
**That doesn't formally exist yet as anything other than a bullet point
***That doesn't formally exist yet as anything other than a bullet point, and may not even be a new game

I mean the smugness and sureness of things you know nothing about in this post is amazing. Good show sir.

 

[theBishop]

Ahaha, that's precious.

Systems that sell badly don't produce magical, ultra-dedicated fanbases with ultra-high attach rates to make up for it (see PS3.)

I don't think anyone would argue selling poorly > selling well, but we saw with the Wii that remarkable hardware sales don't always translate to remarkable software sales.

The target audience does seem to make a difference in buying habits. Not too shocking.

 

[charlequin]

I don't think anyone would argue selling poorly > selling well, but we saw with the Wii that remarkable hardware sales don't always translate to remarkable software sales.

Yes, but it's a giant (and foolish) leap to take from "the system's target audience may result in some differences in attach rate" to "fuck the mass market, a niche hardcore system that sells badly will do enough in REAL GAMERZ software sales to make up for it"

Niche is not a workable strategy for PSVita. Sony need to have at least solid and ongoing mainstream sales or the product is in trouble, same as for any other console or handheld.

 

[watershed]

I thought the vita today looks better than it has at any point prior. Each time we get new info its good info, like all retail games being downloadable, the ram being confirmed, more third party support, etc.

 

[Father_Brain]

I mean the smugness and sureness of things you know nothing about in this post is amazing. Good show sir.

Really, that post was about the opposite of certainty.

From all we know about those games, they might as well be abstractions. They may or may not be real. They're Schrodinger's cat. Can't judge the cat's health until it's out of the box.

 

[Xplatformer]

If I can have a

decent web browser (Opera)
Free texting app (TextNow)
Radio App
Netflix
Kindle Book reading app

and two quality games, $250 am day 1 in usa.

Damn good handheld system for $250 bones.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Really, that post was about the opposite of certainty.

From all we know about those games, they might as well be abstractions. They may or may not be real. They're Schrodinger's cat. Can't judge the cat's health until it's out of the box.

Sony has no reason to lie. These are western games and its not due out west for a good while. I'd be surprised if those titles didn't make their way to the platform in some way. To say they are nothing but bullet points implies that sony would have some rhyme or reason to deceive us.

 

[Curufinwe]

No it won't, it will be 5,180 yen more. Remember... which region was the PSP the most successful in and what region did it launch at the lowest price? I really don't know why you are trying to spin this when the facts are the facts.

When it launches in the EU and the US in 2012 it will cost €249/$249 - the same price that the PSP cost when it launched in those territories in 2005.

I don't know why you can't accept that Japan is just one territory, not the whole world.

Do you really think that the PSP is more succesful NOW in Japan than in the rest of the world is because it launched 7 years ago slightly more cheaper in Japan?

The funny stuff is that you didn't even know that PSP launched at 20k yens in Japan (or at least, it wasn't your argument). You were defending a few posts before that the fact that PSV will be more expensive in Japan is because of the difference of the dollar-yen change between 2004 and 2011 (185$ vs 315$), like if the people in Japan got their salaries in dollars. When I said about the PSP core version, you forgot your previous argument and you stuck with the PSP Core was cheaper argument like a burning nail.

It's bizarre, but totally unsurprising coming from him.

 

[Truth101]

When it launches in the EU and the US in 2012 it will cost €249/$249 - the same price that the PSP cost when it launched in those territories in 2005.

I don't know why you can't accept that Japan is just one territory, not the whole world.



It's bizarre, but totally unsurprising coming from him.

Japan is the most important region for hand-helds if you think otherwise you are delusional.

 

[Curufinwe]

Japan is the most important region for hand-helds if you think otherwise you are delusional.

Most important region, yes. Only region that matters, no. Even now Japan only accounts for a quarter of LTD PSP sales.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=440358
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/110228_e.html

 

[patsu]

After the press conference I've now shifted from Vita is the greatest platform ever made to Vita is most likely doomed. Downgraded RAM(not certain but most likely), no third party support, relatively high price, vaporware titles, awful, awful first party titles like Resistance and reality fighters and most likely bad support from Sony in the future who will put PS3/PS4 ahead of Vita all adds up to a bleak future. I really hope Vita pulls through as it has the potential to be the greatest handheld ever.

RAM is not downgraded at all.

Vaporware titles exist for all launch consoles pre-launch.

Resistance actually looks interesting to me, but touchscreen control looks clumsy.

Bad support from Sony is a distinct possibility given their PSP treatment. Sony needs to show everyone their commitment in TGS. We should get more news there since Vita launches in Japan first.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Most important region, yes. Only region that matters, no. Even now Japan only accounts for a quarter of LTD PSP sales.

But it's the region where the bulk of PSP games are sold.

 

[Jin34]

I thought the vita today looks better than it has at any point prior. Each time we get new info its good info, like all retail games being downloadable, the ram being confirmed, more third party support, etc.

Most people's impression immediately after the sony conf was that the games lineup was weak, they needed to show more, with western support being very lacking. The ram news is great for us here in gaf but is utterly irrelevant from a sales pov.

 

[Truth101]

Most important region, yes. Only region that matters, no. Even now Japan only accounts for a quarter of LTD PSP sales.

http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=436378
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/110228_e.html

Hand-helds are driven by support from Japanese developers
Having a healthy and large user-base in Japan are key to gaining that support. That support will help drive sales in the other regions. Not that I am saying western support is worthless, it just isnt key.

 

[watershed]

Most people's impression immediately after the sony conf was that the games lineup was weak, they needed to show more, with western support being very lacking. The ram news is great for us here in gaf but is utterly irrelevant from a sales pov.

Was that reactions on gaf or in the gaming media? I just got on Gaf and I haven't realy browsed other gaming sites today.

I feel like as it is now, if the vita appeals to you and you buy one at launch you won't be disappointed. I like the line up of games and everything the system does it seems to do very well. For contrast, when the 3ds came out it seemed like a lot of people very quickly ended up disappointed with their purchase, with the games available, or with features that were promised but not yet available. The vita doesn't seem like it will have the same issues.

 

[Jin34]

Was that reactions on gaf or in the gaming media? I just got on Gaf and I haven't realy browsed other gaming sites today.

I feel like as it is now, if the vita appeals to you and you buy one at launch you won't be disappointed. I like the line up of games and everything the system does it seems to do very well. For contrast, when the 3ds came out it seemed like a lot of people very quickly ended up disappointed with their purchase, with the games available, or with features that were promised but not yet available. The vita doesn't seem like it will have the same issues.

I mean during the conf and immediately after. Don't know about the media but I imagine it goes something like this: "Apple Apple something Apple".

Lucky for me I didn't buy a 3DS when it came out but for $100 with the Power Up Rewards trade-in.

 

[theBishop]

Yes, but it's a giant (and foolish) leap to take from "the system's target audience may result in some differences in attach rate" to "fuck the mass market, a niche hardcore system that sells badly will do enough in REAL GAMERZ software sales to make up for it"

Niche is not a workable strategy for PSVita. Sony need to have at least solid and ongoing mainstream sales or the product is in trouble, same as for any other console or handheld.

I agree, but I'm not of the mindset that gamer's games are niche. Niche compared to Angry Birds maybe, but I don't find it to be a useful comparison. Is GTA niche? Is Call of Duty niche?