everyday math
Banned
I just posted one last page and typing men only events in google brings them up.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Alamo Drafthouse hosting women-only Wonder Woman screenings June 6th
- Thread starter ElBoxyBrown
- Start date
I'm no troll. You can check my post history if you want. My mind was drawing a blank. I'll read your example on the previous page as I didn't read that post yet.
Thanks.
everyday math
Banned
No I read you wrong I apologize.
Admiral Woofington
Member
any example of dog only events in cinema?
When I went to the premiere of Marley and Me I had to deal with people crying at the dog's death, when I'm sitting there thinking the family was a piece of shit for not giving the dog more food. If there were only doggos there, reviews would be much more different.
When I went to the premiere of Marley and Me I had to deal with people crying at the dog's death, when I'm sitting there thinking the family was a piece of shit for not giving the dog more food. If there were only doggos there, reviews would be much more different.
No problem. i could have worded my post better.
I'm glad the alamo didn't back down.
Most recent one was brianmcdoogle's dogs-only screening of Max 2: White House Hero.
Barking good time.
Or in the executive suite. 27 out of the top 500 companies ceo's are women. Like that's fucked up.
Yeah, it's unfair that anything involving women's empowerment (even though in this case I find the execution of the empowerment to be misguided, but I hope we can agree to disagree on that) is unfairly targeted by people who actually are sexist pieces of garbage. But it's still possible to have a dissenting opinion out of reasoning that doesn't stem from malice or hatred. It seems like throughout this thread, lots of people assumed the absolute worst about anyone who had a differing perspective. Though I understand it's hard to give the benefit of the doubt to people on the Internet, especially in the Trump era. Still, it's always a helpful thing to keep in mind that people can arrive at the same conclusion (that a movie screening where only one sex is allowed does count as a type of discrimination) for vastly different reasons. Lots of people undoubtedly are against this purely out of sexist spite, but they don't represent everyone.
This isn't an exact 1-to-1 comparison, but I'm a big fan of heavy metal, which has a largely male fanbase. Everytime I see a fellow metalhead at a concert who happens to be female, I almost always notice guys inevitably hitting on them, staring at them inappropriately, etc. At one concert, the lead singer himself went on a drunken tangent between songs to publicly announce into the microphone how "sexy this girl in the front row" was. She then retreated to the back of the room to avoid any more attention. I was so damn pissed off, and I lost 100% of my respect for that band after witnessing it.
That sort of stuff is tragically common in male-dominated nerd culture, but I really do think it's a case of a few extremely bad apples casting a dark shadow over everyone else (though I'm certainly not trying to speak for your experiences - there might be more bad apples than I'm aware of.) It's an ugly thing, and I always try to speak out against it when I see something like that happening in public (though that also runs the risk of being called a white knight or something similar, where people assume you're only speaking out against an injustice because a girl is involved and you think she's defenseless/can't stand up for herself), but the tide still won't fully turn on these things for a long time. In the meantime, there are still lots of people who can agree on the core principles of wanting a safer/more equal society for women, without having to see eye-to-eye on every specific detail.
Captin Quacker
Member
Haven't gone through the thread but I'm assuming it's full of slippery slope arguments?
mostly one big debate about how this shouldn't exist because even the slightest form of a women-only congregation to see a movie will destroy the perfect society we are building for the future
or something
Ugh that would've sucked.
If you tried that sexist shit at my local store in the early 2000s the owner would throw your ass out. No harassing. No scamming. They put a lot of effort into making women, parents and kids feel comfortable which I didn't really appreciate until going to other scenes and seeing that wasn't the case there.
everyday math
Banned
I will agree about this. You don't want society to fall into the trap of this side does it's own thing while the other does it's own thing. And never cross. That's bad for obvious reasons.
While also at the same time accepting races, genders, cultures etc just maybe at times want to do their own thing. And for people to be fine about it. Not cause unneeded drama in which case can breed resentment.
I hoped I phrased what I'm trying to say well. 😓
While also at the same time accepting races, genders, cultures etc just maybe at times want to do their own thing. And for people to be fine about it. Not cause unneeded drama in which case can breed resentment.
I hoped I phrased what I'm trying to say well. 😓
Promise Keepers is one, but in a lot of places women are de facto banned or discouraged from showing up, without anyone literally saying it out loud.
Captin Quacker
Member
it's understandable, next thing you know women will want equal pay and to ruin the lives of men who rape them
where does it end?
A Link to the Past
Banned
http://kotaku.com/5824084/well-thats-one-way-to-combat-misogyny-in-gaming
These kinds of events literally exist because of things you yourself pointed out. Why should women be forced to potentially subject themselves to harassment? Why can't this theater host an event that ensures that they will not be ogled or harassed or abused or what have you? I'm sure the woman who was objectified by the band leader you now hate would have enjoyed not having to have that happen.
And two things:
1. It's more than just a few bad apples, and
2. People who use the bad apple analogy keep forgetting the rest of it: they spoil the bunch.
not psycho
Member
I find this disturbing. The whole point of going to a movie for me is to shave, shower, comb, deodorize, don freshly laundered clothes, and behave in a jovial but unassuming manner, perhaps risking a shy smile without direct eye contact, in the hopes of offsetting the image perpetuated by the bad apples.
But if they're going to exclude me, all bets are off. Prepare for me to show up in costume as a fish riding a bicycle, uncomfortable and sweaty inside, I want to say latex? I'll be out in front with a protest sign with just a big question mark on it.
But if they're going to exclude me, all bets are off. Prepare for me to show up in costume as a fish riding a bicycle, uncomfortable and sweaty inside, I want to say latex? I'll be out in front with a protest sign with just a big question mark on it.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
I assume it's already been posted: https://twitter.com/AlamoNYC/status/867848707592642560
And it has, big time.
And it has, big time.
Messofanego
Banned
You were privy to just a few anecdotal examples like that heavy metal sexist live concert. How about you ask any woman who's gone to a predominantly male convention and ask if they've never been sexually harassed. How about you ask any woman you've ever met about how often they're sexually harassed out in the public. Any age, 10-70. Just so you know it isn't only a few bad apples, but quite the majority. Sexual harassment and assault statistics are depressingly high, even in western developed countries.
Sure if you want to get really technical, you can get people to agree women-only events have an element of discrimination. But then so what? Like if women go to a women-only event and you show up to them saying "btw this is a discriminatory event, that's all I wanted to say but I'm not like those actual sexists and am totally in support of feminism", how'd you think they would respond to that? Glad you pointed that out? Or weirded why you need to, were you instigating something? Women didn't make society how it is to the point where they need safe spaces. So don't put it on these events, put it on society where such a thing needs to exist so women can enjoy a public event in peace.
You're worried about being called a "white knight" by some sexist idiots, like really? It's like being bothered by Trumpers when they would call you a "cuck" or "libtards". You don't need approval from those kind of people. Just know how you enter a conversation, the first impression counts and if you bring up something that's considered negative, that's on your execution, not others who don't know everything about you to differentiate.
Perfect.
Westbahnhof
Banned
That's some amazing PR stuff right there.
Combines the whole "someone is offended" thing, for media coverage, with a really cool concept people can get behind.
Plus, it sounds really fun.
Everybody wins. Or well, many people win, and nobody loses.
Combines the whole "someone is offended" thing, for media coverage, with a really cool concept people can get behind.
Plus, it sounds really fun.
Everybody wins. Or well, many people win, and nobody loses.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I regret that I don't have an Alamo Drafthouse near me. I would never go to another theater again.
This. Sexual harrassement and assault are way more pervasive than one might think.
Messofanego
Banned
MugiwaraCole
Member
It really is disheartening that the need for things like this has to be explained to anybody.
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
It's bandwagoning this internet talking point and trying to get a bunch of women who like to feel they're being political to pay to watch a shitty superhero movie.
It's not political in a way where it makes the world a better or worse place. It's political in that it's targeted advertising to marks that try and define their personal brand with political movements.
MsKrisp
Member
For those wondering if people would be up in arms if the event was male only, I've never seen anyone complain or protest groups like freemasons/shriners, or people in elk lodges from being exclusively male groups who hold plenty of male only events. Can we please just have one tiny, insignificant thing without a bunch of unaffected dudes acting like it's an affront to their gender
Messofanego
Banned
JoJoShabadoo
Member
I think the only problem here is the intent of Alamo. They're going out of their way to rile people up for marketing and buzz purposes.
Not like it's a night where women celebrate the empowerment of women through Wonder Woman. More like "Men aren't allowed guys! D-Did you hear us? Let the internet fights begin"
I'm ok with this FYI. As neutral as it gets. Just saying.
Not like it's a night where women celebrate the empowerment of women through Wonder Woman. More like "Men aren't allowed guys! D-Did you hear us? Let the internet fights begin"
I'm ok with this FYI. As neutral as it gets. Just saying.
Publicly making fun of MRA types who can't bring themselves to understand the difference between equality and equity is an acceptable commercial strategy.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Well I was more referring to their initial strategy, not just the replies. They knew what kind of discussions it would spark (see: this 9 page GAF thread) with terms like NO GUYS ALLOWED and saying even the staff will be female.
It's definitely a marketing strategy.
Somehow I'm fine with that. Trolling fuckwads who have narrow minds is always good
jetpacks was yes
Member
Yeah it is really depressing. Reminds me of that Master of None episode. One of the most horrifying things I've found out in the last few years is how even young girls experience casual sexual harassment. By old men, even. Including right in my neighborhood.
Hilarious.
But not women or men only nights.Lol in Germany we have many Ladys Night or Men Night in cinemas. What the Heck
I am fine with this screenings. But I think that I have to reconsider my view on NeoGAF as a very liberal board after reading this thread. Or topics like this are luring a special kind of people
it's a nice novelty event for wonder woman fans in that local area but the blanket media coverage i see of this 'controversy' is endemic of a liberal feminism that is completely impotent and ultimately failing women. one that is primarily interested in cheaply dismantling easy arguments and mocking the 'male tears' of a few of the most ridiculous people alive on social media, yet is unprepared to challenge republican dominance of every form of government who are systematically rolling back protections and services that women depend on in all forms of life, and engaging with the complicated reality that a majority of white women backed trump last year and need to be persuaded.
like with all the ghostbusters is it feminist/is it evil stuff last year, the huge amount of energy put into litigating something so ephemeral is a needless distraction and we need to stop being treated like easy marks by companies and media organizations exploiting these ludicrous controversies for their own profit.
like with all the ghostbusters is it feminist/is it evil stuff last year, the huge amount of energy put into litigating something so ephemeral is a needless distraction and we need to stop being treated like easy marks by companies and media organizations exploiting these ludicrous controversies for their own profit.
I agree society is far too lax when it comes to tolerating sexual harassment. I just don't think the solution is to create public "no men allowed" zones (to be clear, I don't think this lone movie theater is going to cause any sort of societal shift in that direction, I'm just speaking to the larger point). And I'm not sure how you can apply this logic to my example of the concert: are you suggesting it should have been a performance where only men could attend, so the woman couldn't have even been at risk for harassment in the venue? Or are you saying the victim would have enjoyed the opposite, where only women were allowed to see the concert (which also doesn't make sense, since the band itself was all male)?
Saying a few bad apples spoil it for the bunch is a really dangerous line of thought. You can see how that type of logic can easily be applied to justify things I'm sure you don't agree with. "Ethnicity X commits more crimes than ethnicity Y, therefore the two groups should be separated because the bad people in ethnicity X has spoiled it for everyone else in their demographic."
I'm a very strong proponent that people should be judged as an individual, held against the story told by their own actions and inner character, as opposed to being lumped in with the absolute worst of whatever group they belong to. I'm sure most people agree with that sentiment, but it seems weird to carve out some exception when it specifically comes to the separation of men and women.
A much more effective solution would be for venues (and society at large) to stop seeing harassment issues as minor deals that aren't worth clamping down on. It's hard to enforce these things for sure, especially when American was fine with electing a "grab her by the pussy" piece of shit, but that doesn't mean we should throw in the towel and take shortcuts. As far as the law of the land is concerned, my view is that no public business should be able to refuse service based on any demographic trait.
In my example of the concert I attended, if I were the venue owner I'd:
1. Blacklist the band for life (in this case, it would be The Lord Weird Slough Feg)
2. Make sure the security guards know that if they see any harassment, the offender must be kicked out of the concert immediately; and
3. Have well-designed PSA materials posted throughout the building describing the venue's policy
I would encourage any and all businesses to adopt approaches like this, as opposed to a guilty until proven innocent mindset.
I want to respond to this section of your post first:
Maybe my use of the phrase "a few bad apples" wasn't wise, because of how subjectively it quantifies things. I know the majority of women experience sexual harassment at some point in their lives, but that doesn't in turn mean that the majority of men are sexual harassers. Maybe over 50% of guys are, but I find that incredibly hard/too depressing to believe (I'm open to changing my views on this point though, if there is any data out there suggesting otherwise - though I'm not sure how something like that could be accurately quantified and measured).
For example, even if only 5% of men at comic con are harassers, that can easily contribute to the perception that most men in attendance are disgusting slimeballs. Obviously 5% is still way too high of a threshold to be acceptable, and an ideal society should have 0% harassment, but instead of taking the approach of "Let's just separate the men and women from these events to avoid potential harassment scenarios altogether," a better solution would be similar to what I proposed for the concert venue. Make the zero-tolerance harassment policy crystal clear, kick out anyone who does it, and implement lifetime bans.
I would never go and protest something like this movie screening. There are so many bigger fish to fry in society. Again, as I mentioned last night, I don't think the real-world ramifications of this women's-only event will cause any harm worth getting angry over. I'm just trying to argue that, on a philosophical level, this is a bad solution to a harmful problem.
As for accusations of white knighting, I didn't mean to imply that I give even the slightest time of day to what a brainwashed Trumper thinks. Instead, it's just another example of how two different groups of people can take the same action (speaking out against injustice) for wildly different reasons (actually being sexist and thinking women can't defend themselves vs. speaking up against wrongdoing no matter what the sex/race/orientation/etc. of the person being harassed is). It's very easy to always assume the worst about a person's motivation, but that's a dangerous and alienating assumption to make.
How do you feel about all the proceeds from these showings going to Planned Parenthood?
Let's say a theater has 18 screens, and Wonder Woman, being a hot summer movie, will get 6 of those in various forms (3D, IMAX, stadium seating, etc.). The mid-week, low-tier and older movies will get the 12 that are left.
This could go one of two ways;
In the best case, because the newest movie needs to make as much money as possible, and because of contacts and whatnot, the 6 allotted WW screens won't be touched, and instead the women only screenings will occur on 2 screens used by the mid/low/old movies since they are more expendable and not many will miss them.
In the worst case, the women only screenings will take 2 of the 6 allotted WW screens, still leaving 4 available for general audiences, which is still a hell of a lot of screens, especially on the day it is happening.
Because in all cases, it is happening on a Tuesday. The 2nd place beauty pageant winner of weekdays. There will be enough seats.
This could go one of two ways;
In the best case, because the newest movie needs to make as much money as possible, and because of contacts and whatnot, the 6 allotted WW screens won't be touched, and instead the women only screenings will occur on 2 screens used by the mid/low/old movies since they are more expendable and not many will miss them.
In the worst case, the women only screenings will take 2 of the 6 allotted WW screens, still leaving 4 available for general audiences, which is still a hell of a lot of screens, especially on the day it is happening.
Because in all cases, it is happening on a Tuesday. The 2nd place beauty pageant winner of weekdays. There will be enough seats.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
I absolutely agree with this, and when going past the face value of all this, what you say is very true. I had some interesting discussions with friends over Ghostbusters and the like last year.
I think a lot of people spend their energy defending things like this for the wrong reasons, instead of what actually matters when speaking of gender equality. And oddly enough it's usually men who are the most adamant about it.
hammysaurusrex
Member
This thread got sanctimonious real quick. It switched from men whining because they can't go to a single movie theater in Austin on a Tuesday evening for a particular screening of Wonder Woman. From there it morphed into people lecturing about how women engaging in these events are really hurting feminism because optics™ and there are more important political things on the table they should be doing instead. Because no one is allowed to see a fucking movie anymore. Yikes.
Messofanego
Banned
Profit which is going to local women's charities like Planned Parenthood?
Also, you can do both, working to challenge republican dominance isn't mutually exclusive with hosting a women's only screening for a Hollywood movie.
Funnily enough most people here have spent as much energy defending it as you've spent explaining how it's actually useless/a disservice to the cause. (You and others, not singling you out).
(Oh, and people actually can defend several things at once, a few of which being more trivial than others; it's not a "whew, did my part for feminism this year *dusts off hands*" kind of deal)
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Hmm? I just made two effortless posts.
Anyways I'm talking less of this particular GAF thread and more of people in general, in real life discussions, in the past few years.
And I'm not saying that by defending something like this people dont defend real issues. I mean that people inflate trivial issues to seem like a big deal. An example being how going to the cinema was never a male-only event and that this isn't progress in any way, just a publicity play.