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AMD: PlayStation 4 supports hUMA, Xbox One does not

Bailers

Member
Nothing excuses journalists from their duty to check their sources. And some haven't apparently even read what they are quoting.

The vast, vast major of journalists are writers, not technical people. They are taught to look at the facts and report them as accurately as possible. But there's a limit to how they can interpret the details when the facts are technical details beyond their training and real knowledge. If the industry changes rapidly and is difficult for practitioners to keep up, what chance does a journalist have when they spent more time in bars than in a STEM class in college?
Cops and journalists aren't that different in some respects. Typical street cop, or even typical Fed, is not trained in anything technical like computers or software. So unless they go get additional training, they're only plugging numbers into a spreadsheet.
 
the problem with the article is the lack of facts to back up the conclusions drawn by the author. What exactly did his source say that made him draw these conclusions.

The same skepticism is applied to regular news articles, you can't simply say hey I spoke to a congressman and he is not going to support X, without including a quote. You post that crap and you won't be a journalist for long.

you most certainly can, and reporters frequently do. are you familiar with what "off the record" means? and why it exists?
 
I don't think it's fair to put this entirely on them. GAF is to blame for a large part of this particular situation. Sensationalist topic titles that falsely attribute quotes like this one cause many people to accept false information as common knowledge. I would feel sorry for readers of this site as well because stuff like this happening has caused quite a bit of confusion on several issues. So many people don't look far beyond topic titles and one like this not being changed is inexcusable.

I blame NeoGAF for much of the Xbone debacle. MS did need to explain their stance on many things. But before they could provide a statement or clarification, GAF jumped their case and ran with rumors from everywhere.

It was needed in a way, but just not the way it was done.
 
It is not credible that a developer on a console with UMA wouldn't know what hUMA is. Absolutely zero credibility. I am quickly coming to the conclusion that the "confirmed" developer is actually just a marketing person with a bit of technical knowledge.

Everything that comes from this "developer" is just rewriting MS marketing lines or glossing over weak points like this. That he either claims to have no knowledge of hUMA or actually doesn't is ridiculous.

Exactly, you should never trust a marketing person. Oh wait...

"This was explained by AMD's Senior Product Marketing Manager Marc Diana to c't"

Now I'm confused, who do I believe?
 

c0de

Member
Exactly, you should never trust a marketing person. Oh wait...

"This was explained by AMD's Senior Product Marketing Manager Marc Diana to c't"

Now I'm confused, who do I believe?

MS has more money than AMD, so the answer is obvious who to trust, according to common knowledge!
 

Finalizer

Member
But why does that excuse the role GAF plays in situations like this? Many people come here for gaming news. When a topic is posted like this it's representing itself as news and you can see how people accept stuff like the topic title as common knowledge. That's a pretty big issue when this topic has over 1000 posts and far more views but those that simply read the topic title as many do might actually be less informed than if they had not.

So you might be surprised at this little revelation, so make sure you're sitting down for this one. Don't wanna knock you off your feet with this one.

GAF is an internet forum.

If someone comes here for gaming news, that's up to that individual's personal responsibility in gathering information. That's like holding Facebook accountable because someone considers information gathered from friends on that site to be "news."

It doesn't matter how popular this site is, or how many people visit it for gaming info - at the end of the day, it's a forum, and that makes it highly irresponsible for a journalist to use it as a primary source of information for reporting news.

I blame NeoGAF for much of the Xbone debacle. MS did need to explain their stance on many things. But before they could provide a statement or clarification, GAF jumped their case and ran with rumors from everywhere.

Surely you jest. I won't speak for whatever role GAF may have played in "running with rumors from everywhere," but MS had every opportunity to explain themselves for months. They only have themselves to blame for dodging the issue on multiple occasions and somehow not noticing that there was massive public resentment stewing back when the Adam Orth debacle happened.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
you most certainly can, and reporters frequently do. are you familiar with what "off the record" means? and why it exists?
I'm guessing in this case it's an interview for the c't for which they took one of the big revelations and made a news story for heise.de out of.

We'll see with the next c't issue if that interview is included or not.
 

c0de

Member
I'm guessing in this case it's an interview for the c't for which they took one of the big revelations and made a news story for heise.de out of.

We'll see with the next c't issue if that interview is included or not.

I am asking myself if there is any magazine outside of Germany that is at least close to the quality of c't...
 
I'm still waiting for an official clarification from AMD / Microsoft, otherwise I'll assume the worst.
A statement from a "certified microsoft developer" who doesn't know what he's talking about doesn't qualify as one.

My 2 cents.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
What a crappy thread, check your sources, some mod should close this one.

Well:

c't – Magazin für Computertechnik (magazine for computer technology) is a German computer magazine, published by the Heinz Heise publishing house. Originally a special section of the electronics magazine elrad, the magazine has been published monthly since December 1983 and biweekly since October 1997. […]

The magazine is the second most popular German language computer magazine with a sold circulation of about 315,000 (as of March 2011; printed circulation: 419,000). With 241,000 subscriptions it is the computer magazine with the most subscribers in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C't
 

flying dutchman

Neo Member
What happened is that the Best looking games of the generation are PS3 exclusives.
Thats a misleading way of trying to show which console was more powerful. Its like saying Halo 4 is better looking than FEAR therefore 360 is more powerful than ps3. The reality is that the quality of developer is very important and we will never know what ND or GGs could have done on 360 with their skillset. First it was the unreal engine excuse, then lazy developers, then people leading on 360 and not ps3. At the end of its cycle one of the top developers using one of the most advanced engines (crytek) and another of the industry greats with their new engine (id) both got about the same results and pretty much claimed no real power difference between the two of them.
Sonys real strength is that it keeps investing in its first party developers who are now amongst the most respected today such as ND. Meanwhile MS destroy Rare and let Bungie go their own way.
 
So you might be surprised at this little revelation, so make sure you're sitting down for this one. Don't wanna knock you off your feet with this one.

GAF is an internet forum.

If someone comes here for gaming news, that's up to that individual's personal responsibility in gathering information. That's like holding Facebook accountable because someone considers information gathered from friends on that site to be "news."

It doesn't matter how popular this site is, or how many people visit it for gaming info - at the end of the day, it's a forum, and that makes it highly irresponsible for a journalist to use it as a primary source of information for reporting news.

I'm not arguing a single thing about the shoddy gaming journalism, everybody knows that already. Your condescension is extremely unnecessary as you did very little to argue the main point I'm trying to make. Yes people have a responsibility to gather information properly but this is a site with over 6000 people right now viewing a single board about gaming that has 40 topics on the front page and doesn't allow duplicate topics.

Those that make topics and the mods that moderate them have to be held accountable and have their own responsibility to not misinform or distort the facts when making a topic and to have topic titles accurately reflect the information that's available. You have to understand how many peoples views and beliefs are shaped quite greatly by topic titles here.
 

wildfire

Banned
jaguar breaks away from the"module" approach they used for their bulldozer/piledriver chips. Each jaguar core is it's own core it doesn't share an fpu between two integer cores like done on a module for bulldozer/piledriver. Each jaguar core is it's own full core. 4 cores make up their compute unit and share a block of l2 cache. Ps4/xbone have two jaguar compute units for 8 FULL cores. Do not compare these with the cores modules used on their fx chips


Thanks for clearing that up.
 

Vestal

Gold Member
Thanks, I missed that. Updated the OP. Sadly again without direct quote. Hopefully, some other magazine that visited the AMD booth will deliver some.
good. Maybe the title should change to something in which the statement is attributed to the authors conclusions and not AMD since there are apparent conflicting reports in regards to this.
 

KidBeta

Junior Member
jaguar breaks away from the"module" approach they used for their bulldozer/piledriver chips. Each jaguar core is it's own core it doesn't share an fpu between two integer cores like done on a module for bulldozer/piledriver. Each jaguar core is it's own full core. 4 cores make up their compute unit and share a block of l2 cache. Ps4/xbone have two jaguar compute units for 8 FULL cores. Do not compare these with the cores modules used on their fx chips

Jaguars SIMD FPU units are also only half as wide as Intels (128bit AVX units for Jaguar, vs 256bit AVX units for Intel)
 
Your original statement on the topic started with:



Looks like it's about the shoddy gaming journalism to me, bro.

"Entirely" concerning the overall situation of how people become misinformed. Certainly we can put the bad journalism entirely on gaming websites, when I said I wasn't arguing that I meant that the heart of what I was discussing wasn't really other websites. Making topics and topic titles accurate is a very important issue here on GAF.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
good. Maybe the title should change to something in which the statement is attributed to the authors conclusions and not AMD since there are apparent conflicting reports in regards to this.
Yeah the topic should be something that reflects the statement made towards heise.de

AMD: PS4 is hUMA, XB1 isn't
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
"Entirely" concerning the overall situation of how people become misinformed. Certainly we can put the bad journalism entirely on gaming websites, when I said I wasn't arguing that I meant that the heart of what I was discussing wasn't really other websites.

What I was blaming a particular news site for was that they took a quote from NeoGAF user W!CKED and mistook (and reported) it as a direct quote from Marc Diana. This is pretty embarrassing for any journalist.
 

joshcryer

it's ok, you're all right now
X1 can't have pure hUMA because it has eSRAM where data must be copied and managed to deal with bandwidth constraints. In other words, maybe you can do a virtual compute in RAM on the GPU but it has to go to eSRAM first rendering CPU/GPU algorithmic cooperation extremely difficult if not impractical, because the whole point of eSRAM is pushing data through a fast pipe, not sitting around waiting for computations to be done.

In a way hUMA is for slow stuff, because it lets you do computations on the GPU while the CPU is doing something else or while the GPU isn't writing a frame, computations which the CPU can then look at and apply to some other logic. Basically it gives the CPU access to GPU power without having to do a copy. With eSRAM in place the copy must be done.

It makes sense that both X1 and PS4 have a hUMA-like memory controller and system. It also makes sense that AMD would tout the PS4's architecture over X1, because in the end AMD isn't going to have eSRAM in the way of the memory flow and access on its 2014 PC architecture.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Yeah the topic should be something that reflects the statement made towards heise.de

AMD: PS4 is hUMA, XB1 isn't

I am ok with that, if a mod would like to do that.

/edit: Request sent
 

Vestal

Gold Member
Yeah the topic should be something that reflects the statement made towards heise.de

AMD: PS4 is hUMA, XB1 isn't

Article making claims attributed to a marketing director without including any of the quotes. Yup that's great journalism.
 
I blame NeoGAF for much of the Xbone debacle. MS did need to explain their stance on many things. But before they could provide a statement or clarification, GAF jumped their case and ran with rumors from everywhere.

It was needed in a way, but just not the way it was done.

The "Xbone debacle" wasn't a matter of bad PR, it was a matter of actual problems with the product being pushed.

PR fuckups dug them a deeper hole, sure.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Article making claims attributed to a marketing director without including any of the quotes. Yup that's great journalism.
I think there are enough posts in this thread to establish heise/c't 's credentials. Feel free to ignore them, but to implicitly paint them as liars given their track record is foolish.
 

Finalizer

Member
"Entirely" concerning the overall situation of how people become misinformed. Certainly we can put the bad journalism entirely on gaming websites, when I said I wasn't arguing that I meant that the heart of what I was discussing wasn't really other websites. Making topics and topic titles accurate is a very important issue here on GAF.

Then you chose an interesting way to word your post if you intended to just talk specifically about how people become misinformed. When you're responding to a discussion on shoddy game journalism with a line like "GAF is to blame for a large part of this particular situation," it looks like the statement as a whole is qualifying why the blame should be shifted from journalists to their sources, even when said sources are internet forums of all places.

Yeah the topic should be something that reflects the statement made towards heise.de

AMD: PS4 is hUMA, XB1 isn't

Even easier: "heise.de: PS4 performance advantage over XB1 bigger than many expect thanks to hUMA," if the dispute is over citation.
 

Gorthaur

Banned
No huma:

kinect_latencybakx2.gif
 

Durante

Member
Why misuse? A dev is a dev, no matter what the dev devs.
It's misuse in some contexts. E.g. if you use "being a dev" as a qualification in a discussion about low-level engine parallelization, then you should be involved with that and not writing the GUI for a level editor or something.
 

segasonic

Member
I for one welcome our new one-console overlords!

Microsoft should just write-off their development costs for the Xbone and start from scratch.
 

Vestal

Gold Member
I think there are enough posts in this thread to establish heise/c't 's credentials. Feel free to ignore them, but to implicitly paint them as liars given their track record is foolish.
and yet there is an article by edge which attributes assertions made by AMD which states both use hUMA.

So we have conflicting reports, so this becomes more a rumor unless actual facts can be shown.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
and yet there is an article by edge which attributes assertions made by AMD which states both use hUMA.

So we have conflicting reports, so this becomes more a rumor unless actual facts can be shown.
Which is why it's good that the TC has included this in the OP.

This statement made towards c't is the news part of the news and discussion forum. Nobody is hiding anything here.

Maybe PM a moderator (as I did for this thread title change) to include "[previously both were thought to be hUMA]" or something.
 

Finalizer

Member
Maybe PM a moderator (as I did for this thread title change) to include "[previously both were thought to be hUMA]" or something.

It'd be easiest to just make it "Rumor: PlayStation 4 supports hUMA, Xbox One does not" to simply highlight the uncertain nature of the topic given that it's based upon a supposed off-the-record quote that can't be corroborated.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
It'd be easiest to just make it "Rumor: PlayStation 4 supports hUMA, Xbox One does not" to simply highlight the uncertain nature of the topic given that it's based upon a supposed off-the-record quote that can't be corroborated.
But it wasn't off-the-record. It was made in an interview for c't which is a hardcopy magazine that has hardcopy publishing schedules.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Maybe PM a moderator (as I did for this thread title change) to include "[previously both were thought to be hUMA]" or something.

I personally think it is ok as it is, as this is exactly what the original article states, and they attribute that sentence unambiguously to AMD's Marc Diana. Also, they confirmed after you wrote them that that particular attribution is accurate, so I wouldn't call it a rumor either. The article on The Verge is much more vague on that topic and only mentions it among other things.

It breaks down to whether you want to trust c't, or not. In any case, there will be certainly more statements during or after gamescom since Marc Diana certainly talked to other journalists as well.
 

JABEE

Member
But it wasn't off-the-record. It was made in an interview for c't which is a hardcopy magazine that has hardcopy publishing schedules.

Yeah. You will see publications like GQ write stories about interviews they had. They will publish summaries online to make people want to buy the magazine.

There will most likely be a quote from AMD in the magazine.
 
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