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AMD: PlayStation 4 supports hUMA, Xbox One does not

A

Abominuz

Banned
Someone please sum up this thread ?
The PS4 is capable of HUMA the One isnt because it doesnt use the ESRAM as an cache.
So where is all the fuss about people being quoted and people lying.
Isnt the fact a fact that this will make the ps4 ahead of the One?
Or am i missing something ?
 
X

xXxDieselxXx

Member
Just to add to the fire and excuse my ignorance...

How will the so called graphics tiles under DirectX 11.2 Xbox One exclusive will pair against hUMA?

Will that be the equalizer?
 
K

KidBeta

Junior Member
xXxDieselxXx said:
Just to add to the fire and excuse my ignorance...

How will the so called graphics tiles under DirectX 11.2 Xbox One exclusive will pair against hUMA?

Will that be the equalizer?
Click to expand...

tiled resources are just PRT under another name, the PS4 will have the exact same capabilities.
 
A

Akainu

Member
BleachAndPepsi said:
Thank you, Based Cerny.

2013_%2525208_21_14_52.png
Click to expand...
This needs to fade out after the laugh.
 
M

madmackem

Member
fi3rypho3nix said:
I blame NeoGAF for much of the Xbone debacle. MS did need to explain their stance on many things. But before they could provide a statement or clarification, GAF jumped their case and ran with rumors from everywhere.

It was needed in a way, but just not the way it was done.
Click to expand...

haaha no, and why is it on customers to let a company get it straight? you get one shot and they fucked it up.
 
Flatline

Flatline

Banned
Wishmaster92 said:
http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1kv1xd/xbox_one_has_its_own_coherency_solution_similar/cbswrn3

It supports Numa Numa hUMA.
Click to expand...


Can we please stop quoting this guy, he seems more like MS's official PR for reddit than an actual dev and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he actually was PR.

Before Kinect 180:


The number of features on the Xbox One that uses the Kinect is almost too many to count. I can't imagine using the console without it. To me, I see two ways to deal with this.

1) Not require the Kinect to be always plugged in and have all these features turned off by default.

2) Enable these features by default and turn them off if people choose to turn off the Kinect.

The first choice would undermine our guarantee to game developers.
Click to expand...

After 180:
Back during the AMA I mentioned the reasons I think why every Xbox One comes with a Kinect, and that is to guarantee 100% adoption rate. This is a chicken and egg problem where we are magically creating the egg. That bit about the cost of Kinect also created some confusion, but I did mean total R&D costs.

My thoughts on this has changed a bit since then and that is we should still bundle the Kinect in every box but leave out the requirement of having it always plugged in. We provide the option to turn it off completely, and people are welcome to cover it up or turn it around as well. So letting people unplug the Kinect doesn't change our guarantee to game developers, plus we will get brownie points for making a consumer friendly choice. I think our execs know this.

On the subject of including a headset, it's a matter if Microsoft will eat this cost and make the people who want the headset happy. Personally I want a headset as I don't want to hear my buddies' voices mixed with game audio.
Click to expand...

He's full of shit.
 
F

Flai

Member
TheLostBigBoss said:
This is so fucking confusing and no one has any idea what is right.

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comm...imilar/cbswrn3

This guy clearly has no credibility. He is an Xbox One dev and has never heard of hUMA before today? Bullshit. From all of his posts he reads like a PR dude feeding that subreddit shit (That they love to eat).
Click to expand...

How is that bullshit? If he develops applications for the Xbox One (not the actual core-OS or some other low-level stuff), then I could easily believe that he has no in-depth information how the system actually works, especially since this hUMA thing sounds like something that developers don't actually have to care about/do some special things because of it.
 
K

KidBeta

Junior Member
Flai said:
How is that bullshit? If he develops applications for the Xbox One (not the actual core-OS or some other low-level stuff), then I could easily believe that he has no in-depth information how the system actually works, especially since this hUMA thing sounds like something that developers don't actually have to care about/do some special things because of it.
Click to expand...

He also 100% agrees with everything Microsoft does and conveniently appeared about the DRM disaster.
 
B

Barzul

Member
Why is it so unbelievable that a software dev has never heard of hUMA? He/she clearly (at least by my interpretation) knows about it, but just didn't know what it was called.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Barzul said:
Nope, he/she disagreed with the no headset pack in and the Kinect mandatory plugged in.
Click to expand...

The number of features on the Xbox One that uses the Kinect is almost too many to count. I can't imagine using the console without it.
Click to expand...
That doesn't read like a disagreement of mandatory Kinect.

Anyway, I think that anonymous Xbox One developer rates lower than anyone from the editorial staff from Heise.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
hUMA is AMDs implementation of UMA

UMA on X1/360/OGX is microsofts implementation of UMA -hell, they are really the ones who decided to make UMA work when everyone wrote the archictecture off

From what I can tell, its the same concept. Don't know how exactly it differs in implementation, if at all.
 
K

KidBeta

Junior Member
DopeyFish said:
hUMA is AMDs implementation of UMA

UMA on X1/360/OGX is microsofts implementation of UMA -hell, they are really the ones who decided to make UMA work when everyone wrote the archictecture off

From what I can tell, its the same concept. Don't know how exactly it differs in implementation, if at all.
Click to expand...

hUMA requires full cache coherency with every device, UMA does not.
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
Nags said:
Where is this assumption that the dev "will play to the lowest common denominator" coming from?
Click to expand...

If one is talking about gameplay, world creation, etc. then they have to play to the lowest common denominator because no dev is going to code two separte games for one release. Take skyrim for example, on a 2013 powerful PC with multiple 4GB 780s and top of the line Intel cpu with 16GB of system memory, the game plays the same as one on 2006 console hardware. Yes textures, framerate, blah blah are different. But things like AI, # of elements on screen, movement, etc. are all the same because the game was coded with the console as base. It is just a fact.

So, while things like gfx and effects will be different, the gameplay will not on multiplats.

I am really curious to see if the fact that cpu+gpu will be able work on the same data will mean new and interesting gameplay possiblities. If not, only the gfx aficionados will care.
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
Muntu said:
I don't know dude, from his wording I understand he literally has no idea what huma means. I would assume a developer would know something like that.

Unless he's a pr person.
Click to expand...

bing. What XBone dev would spend time on reddit answering fanboy questions, unless he had desire to get fired over an ill-timed comment.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
DopeyFish said:
hUMA is AMDs implementation of UMA

UMA on X1/360/OGX is microsofts implementation of UMA -hell, they are really the ones who decided to make UMA work when everyone wrote the archictecture off

From what I can tell, its the same concept. Don't know how exactly it differs in implementation, if at all.
Click to expand...

UMA isn't the same thing as what AMD is grouping under hUMA.

In UMA you have just have one set of memory shared between processors. But their address spaces could be separate.

What AMD talks about with hUMA involves not only one set of shared memory, but a single unified address space, and the ability to share data between processors without cache flushes, and the ability for any processor to use paged memory.
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
Flatline said:
Can we please stop quoting this guy, he seems more like MS's official PR for reddit than an actual dev and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he actually was PR.

Before Kinect 180:




After 180:


He's full of shit.
Click to expand...

To me, I see two ways to deal with this.

1) Not require the Kinect to be always plugged in and have all these features turned off by default.

2) Enable these features by default and turn them off if people choose to turn off the Kinect.

The first choice would undermine our guarantee to game developers.
Click to expand...

It looks like they did go with number one right? How is he full of it when he stated a possible scenario and it seemingly came to fruition?
 
M

Manmademan

Member
Untalkative_Bunny said:
If one is talking about gameplay, world creation, etc. then they have to play to the lowest common denominator because no dev is going to code two separte games for one release. Take skyrim for example, on a 2013 powerful PC with multiple 4GB 780s and top of the line Intel cpu with 16GB of system memory, the game plays the same as one on 2006 console hardware. Yes textures, framerate, blah blah are different. But things like AI, # of elements on screen, movement, etc. are all the same because the game was coded with the console as base. It is just a fact.

So, while things like gfx and effects will be different, the gameplay will not on multiplats.

I am really curious to see if the fact that cpu+gpu will be able work on the same data will mean new and interesting gameplay possiblities. If not, only the gfx aficionados will care.
Click to expand...

skyrim, and PC games in general are held back not because of the "lowest common denominator" but because of marketshare.

consoles as a whole sell more software at higher price points, so assets are developed for them in mind and then ported to PC. WHICH console is lead and which gets the port comes down to which one is likely to sell more software. This was usually the 360 (especially early on) not because it was "weakest" but because it flat out sold more- it was significantly cheaper than the ps3, had a larger install base due to a year head start, AND was the easier platform to code for. PS3 was stronger in theory, but it was years before third parties were getting equivalent or better performance out of it.

Its interesting to note that cross platform launch games aren't using either console as lead, but rather PC...again because of marketshare. the PC versions are going to outsell both console versions for at least a good two years until they build up a significant userbase.

even so, this generation was unusual in that the ps3 and 360 split the console market right down the middle, with 360 leading in the us and uk, and ps3 everywhere else. usually it's not that close.

The ps2 was lead platform for most of it's gen, even though the Dreamcast would have been the weakest platform, and the GC/Xbox the easiest to code for. Why? marketshare.

The ps1 was lead platform for most of it's gen, even though the saturn,3D0,and jag were weaker.

SNES and genesis had tons of cross platform games, but which one was "better" usually came down to genre. The SNES sold well in japan and EU, the Genesis/megadrive was dominant in the US, and the quality of the ports reflected it.

This time around with the PS4 being significantly cheaper than the Xbox, easier to code for (huma, plus no esram), launching first and in twice the territories, AND more powerful, its extremely unliklely MS will maintain or gain marketshare over last gen. it's going to be a loss, the only question is by how much. If sony ends up with significant gains (say, 65/35 instead of 50/50), then the ps4 will generally be the lead platform.
 
S

Soul Destroyer

Banned
fi3rypho3nix said:
I blame NeoGAF for much of the Xbone debacle. MS did need to explain their stance on many things. But before they could provide a statement or clarification, GAF jumped their case and ran with rumors from everywhere.

It was needed in a way, but just not the way it was done.
Click to expand...

Whoa i've heard it all now.

Pack it up guys, GAF is at fault for MS's fuck ups!
 
B

badb0y

Member
hUMA (Heterogeneous Uniform Memory Access) is a shared memory architecture used in APUs (Accelerated Processing Units). In a hUMA architecture, the CPU and the GPU (inside the APU) have full access to the entire system memory.
Click to expand...
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/hsa/Pages/hsa.aspx#3

durango_memory.jpg


CPU doesn't have direct access to the ESRAM in the Xbox One therefore it doesn't really fit the definition of hUMA to begin with. I do think they will implement something similar but it's not going to be the same as the PS4 as far as I can tell.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
badb0y said:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/hsa/Pages/hsa.aspx#3

durango_memory.jpg


CPU doesn't have direct access to the ESRAM in the Xbox One therefore it doesn't really fit the definition of hUMA to begin with. I do think they will implement something similar but it's not going to be the same as the PS4 as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...

that diagram also makes it seem like the move engines are in the same position the ESRAM is- that is they only communicate directly with the GPU, the CPU doesn't have direct access to them.

not that I'm an expert (I'm definitely not) but it seems as if it could be either the esram OR move engines that keep hUMA from being feasible.
 
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