• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Bayonetta 2 Review Thread - Metacritic: one billion-hit combo, buy it kids

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

The Leviathan

Banned
Sorry GAF,those reviews are nice but I'm NOT buying this game until the real review from this site comes out

BGGLogo2.png
 
A

Acid08

Banned
TyrantGuardian said:
Thank you for taking the time to write this post. I mostly agree with you, but there is one thing in particular that I would like to address.

Your post kind of puts men and women into two separate chambers when we're all actually living in the same society. So, stating that men aren't affected in the same way might be true, but we are obviously also HEAVILY affected by sexism in game, even if it is in a somewhat different way. This is exactly why I love Anitas video series as well, but I digress. Men also constantly have to put up with bimbo characters with completely unrealistic proportions and Miranda butt-shots, and I don't think it is wise to ignore that fact considering this is still a male dominated industry where unfortunately men have to do their part in opening it up toward both female workers and a female consumer base.

Like, I get what you're saying - men in games have plenty of power fantasies they can relate to, but honestly I can't relate to Nathan Drake at all. That guy isn't my guy, I don't want to be him at all. I'd fucking rather be Bayonetta to be honest, and that fact matters quite a bit in this discussion especially because I'm NOT female. This character actually makes me stand in awe of women, while male characters almost never impress me in video games.

Aside from that, I will concede that I am probably slightly more interested in what women have to say about this simply by virtue of them being fewer in number and perhaps providing a different viewpoint, but honestly - the articles I've read that were written by women about this series haven't been very different at all from articles written by men, signalling to me that this is a pretty universal issue that both genders can relate to equally, even if both are affected in different ways.
Click to expand...
So where the "men also deal with this" thing breaks down for me is this: even if we don't relate to a certain character, we have hundred more to choose from. Women really don't have that luxury which is why it's so important that we listen to what they have to say about characters like Bayonetta.

I appreciate what you said about us all living together in society. The main goal of feminist ideology is equality for men and women. Unfortunately that goal is very far away and the whole situation with the gaming industry is a microcosm of the larger problem. Focusing so much on the MEN TOO mentality does more harm than good at the moment. It isn't anywhere near the same. As this whole GamerGate thing has unfolded it has shed a light on just how fucking bad it is for women in gaming right now. And that stretches everywhere from journalism to development. So when everyone shouts MEN TOO I think it's just taking that voice away from the people who actually need it.
 
T

The Boat

Member
Ozium said:
Have any of the reviews touched on the amount of unlockable content? There was a shit ton in Bayo 1 and I'm expecting the same or more for Bayo 2..
Click to expand...
I mention it in mine, but it's in Portguese :p

There's loads of content: challenges, characters, weapons, weapon alts, accessories, techniques, costumes, artwork, music, 3D models. That and the online mode, that's pretty damn good. You don't need to worry about content.
 
E

Eric the Red

Member
Mushroomer25 said:
Polygon seems like they want to be a premiere outlet for criticism, by sacrificing a game's score to make a point about a larger issue. If Bayonetta 2 was released in a hypothetically perfect world, they'd likely give it a 9 or 10. But since representation is still an issue, and they feel this game is an offender - it must be the sacrificial lamb for greater progress.

It's a theory that may be appealing to some types, but doesn't do much in the way of consumer advocacy.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to quote this excellent post. I absolutely think this is Gies' charted direction and modus operandi rather than coming from a place of puritanism, as some other posts attempt to pin on him.

And I'm not commenting about this because I'm one of those people that feel invested in a particular game receiving a high score. Sbraik79 quoted his wife which goes nicely here.
Sbraik79 said:
"People do know that female sexual confidence is an extremely good thing for feminism, dont they?"
Click to expand...
Yes reviewers are entitled to their opinion, but his is a big part of why I think Gies' comments are misplaced. And in not understanding this I think Gies does Polygon readers a disservice.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Bold One said:
It does?
Click to expand...
Insomuch as a.)they are the group who's sexuality in general is far too often loaded with cultural baggage and b.)women's voices are often severely underrepresented in situations like this, yes, a woman's perspective is more valuable to the conversation than yet another men's perspevtive
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
kswiston said:
I think it will be snubbed for the big GOTY prize at most outlets (look at Super Mario Galaxy 2 which had a 97 on Metacritic), but it will at least get a lot of nominations.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it's going to win GotY in places, but in pure action categories, I suspect it will.

Right now, I can't really imagine any game winning GotY this year. There hasn't been an obvious contender I think.
 
T

TyrantGuardian

Member
Acid08 said:
So where the "men also deal with this" thing breaks down for me is this: even if we don't relate to a certain character, we have hundred more to choose from. Women really don't have that luxury which is why it's so important that we listen to what they have to say about characters like Bayonetta.

I appreciate what you said about us all living together in society. The main goal of feminist ideology is equality for men and women. Unfortunately that goal is very far away and the whole situation with the gaming industry is a microcosm of the larger problem. Focusing so much on the MEN TOO mentality does more harm than good at the moment. It isn't anywhere near the same. As this whole GamerGate thing has unfolded it has shed a light on just how fucking bad it is for women in gaming right now. And that stretches everywhere from journalism to development. So when everyone shouts MEN TOO I think it's just taking that voice away from the people who actually need it.
Click to expand...

Oh, of course. That was never my intent. I was just trying to say "let's not completely discredit opinions just because they are coming from men", that's all. I think it's very unfortunate that there aren't more females posting their views on this issue on NeoGAF, and maybe there should be a harrassment-free place for them to discuss it, but of course, that's an entirely different can of worms especially since so many females would prefer to stay gender neutral online due to the ridiculous amounts of idiocy surrounding that.
 
T

TaKeRx

Member
Can't wait to pick up my copy. Whether this game reviewed poorly or not I still want to support the dev. I might finish Bayo 1 on 360... Is it a direct sequel?
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
TyrantGuardian said:
Oh, of course. That was never my intent. I was just trying to say "let's not completely discredit opinions just because they are coming from men", that's all. I think it's very unfortunate that there aren't more females posting their views on this issue on NeoGAF, and maybe there should be a harrassment-free place for them to discuss it, but of course, that's an entirely different can of worms especially since so many females would prefer to stay gender neutral online due to the ridiculous amounts of idiocy surrounding that.
Click to expand...
But I mean, was anyone really suggesting that? Not to pick on you specifically I swrar , but so often in these discussions I see comments about the value of underrepresented perspective or the idea of privlidge and ignorance conflated to a sweeping comment about the worthlessness of the male perspective or whatever
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Yeah the wait is excruciating. This will be my first chance to actually sit down and play Bayo 1 fromcstart to finish instead of just bits and pieces on someone elses system and I'm really excited for it
 
M

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
How long is the first game? Really want to play this as fast as possible, but having not played the first one, I feel obliged to start out with that one.
 
T

TyrantGuardian

Member
The Technomancer said:
But I mean, was anyone really suggesting that? Not to pick on you specifically I swrar , but so often in these discussions I see comments about the value of underrepresented perspective or the idea of privlidge and ignorance conflated to a sweeping comment about the worthlessness of the male perspective or whatever
Click to expand...

You are correct, I was probably just reading too much into it. Still, I enjoy discussing the merits of different viewpoints. In this case,again, I wasn't seeing much of a difference in articles/posts based on which gender wrote them, especially not from people in the "Bayo as empowerment" camp.
 
S

Stardust_Comet

Neo Member
TyrantGuardian said:
I think it's very unfortunate that there aren't more females posting their views on this issue on NeoGAF, and maybe there should be a harrassment-free place for them to discuss it, but of course, that's an entirely different can of worms especially since so many females would prefer to stay gender neutral online due to the ridiculous amounts of idiocy surrounding that.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for all females, but I think there's also the fact that because "this is not the right thread for it".

Sure, some of us have no problem talking about sexuality represented in the game if the topic comes up, but to spend a post on an in depth opinion about it in a thread about the reviews is probably pushing things far out of "justified reasons to discuss it and still claim it's related to the topic". Particularly when it'd definitely cause a shit storm.
 
S

Sbraik79

Banned
Eric the Red said:
Just wanted to quote this excellent post. I absolutely think this is Gies' charted direction and modus operandi rather than coming from a place of puritanism, as some other posts attempt to pin on him.

And I'm not commenting about this because I'm one of those people that feel invested in a particular game receiving a high score. Sbraik79 quoted his wife which goes nicely here.

Yes reviewers are entitled to their opinion, but his is a big part of why I think Gies' comments are misplaced. And in not understanding this I think Gies does Polygon readers a disservice.
Click to expand...

100% agree. Gies' intentions appear noble but not appropriately placed. Maybe he hasn't been with a sexualy confident partner before and has trouble understanding the difference between empowerment and exploitation.
 
E

Euron

Member
Holy Shit. Did I just wake up to the GOTY 2014? Seriously, a 10/10 from Gamespot is so unexpected. This wasn't really on my radar before but now I feel like it needs to be. Maybe around Black Friday I'll pick it up at a discounted price. But if it is this good, I feel like I need to play it by the end of the year.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
I saw who wrote the Polygon article and wrote it off, because I only care about reviews written by reviewers who are... what's the word... oh wait, yeah, good at their job.

Anyways, I'm hyped. Played the Bayo 2 demo yesterday. The game to me feels like it controls even better with the Wii-U Pro Controller for some reason.
 
B

Bold One

Member
The Technomancer said:
Insomuch as a.)they are the group who's sexuality in general is far too often loaded with cultural baggage and b.)women's voices are often severely underrepresented in situations like this, yes, a woman's perspective is more valuable to the conversation than yet another men's perspevtive
Click to expand...

Yes, you are corect to an extent however I am responding to the idea that a discussion can be killed dead because my opinion is worthless because I had the audacity to be born male.

All perspectives should be taken into account even the not so savoury ones, its how forums engage with the exchange of ideas.
 
H

Hupsel

Member
Polygon spends sooo much time talking about the sexualization of the main character and gives it a 75. I guess we live in a different time where in videogames sexualization > gameplay > framerate > everything else.
 
W

Wynnebeck

Banned
Ken Masters said:
GAF loves to hate polygon but they are 100% right about the hyper sexualization of women in this game, it's laughable in most cases in this game actually
Click to expand...

There were a few moments I cringed at in Bayo 1 where I felt like they were makin a sexual joke just because and it wasn't funny at all. Hopefully this isn't the case here.
 
Z

Zafir

Member
The Technomancer said:
Not surprised at Polygons review, even if I think I'm going to disagree with them. Part of the problem is, from what I've seen, Bayonetta games do suffer from an inconsistency. Character animation, voice acting, and character design are all communicating a hyper-sexualized character who is entirely in control of their own sexuality. However the camera movements do then undo some of that by reverting back to almost voyeuristic male gaze swooping and zooming. I've tried to figure out how to reconcile that with the more positive sexuality on display in every other aspect of the character and I don't think I really can, it really does seem like one aspect that's not on the same page as the rest. However the Polygon review is frustrating because I feel like it misses that point, while I'd like to think Gies has his heart in the right place, I think he is too quick to jump on "sexy = bad" at the moment.

What's fascinating about Bayonetta is that she works as a character because she's so much more then "a sexy female who kicks ass". Out pop-culture, geek pop-culture specifically, is littered with that archetype and its still done for the favor of a largely male audience. She even (moreso in the first game then what I've seen of the second) has a dominatrix like affect going on, and that is (often) the literal definition of submissive indulgence from a position of apparent dominance. But the way she carries herself and the way that she acts and reacts communicates a character who is in complete ownership of their actions and their appearance, something that is very often missing when it comes to "sexy kick-ass heroines"
Click to expand...
Yeah I also agree that there does seem to be a bit of a disconnect between the character and the way the scenes/camera portrays her in some cases. I think Bayonetta is a very good female character, she's strong, sexy and boy is she confident. That's great, I'd love to see more female characters like that. What isn't so great is when you then have scenes with bullets stripping her of all her clothes and then suggestive camera angles to go along with it happening. Not to mention the camera angles when fights are going on anyway.

It's what always put me off playing the first game. I tried the demo way back when, and while the combat seemed interesting enough. I just didn't think I'd be able to stomach the cutscenes. I'm willing to go back and try it, though maybe not now due to my first edition pre-order being cancelled but it's still disappointing that there is such a disconnect.
 
T

tebunker

Banned
Honestly I am not surprised by the reviews.

From the demo alone I could just feel the natural ease of play and it created a desire to want to keep playing and get better.

Honestly Bayo 2 is leaps and bounds ahead of the PG's other WiiU game W101 if only because it felt more accessible off the rip. It is easier to intuit the systems and what I need to do to get better at the game.

I kind of wish that Kamiya had hewed closer to the Bayo side of things instead of shoe horning in a system for the touch pad that felt out of place and took a lot of getting used to on the right stick.

Either way I am happy for Platinum. Now can we all organize and create a movement to get this game a lot of sales? No seriously, when great games come out like this I honestly think the community should rally behind it. Even if you don't own a WiiU yet, buy it to show that games like this are desired. If nothing else people will have a great collectors item and may eventually get the system to play it.

If a game like bayonetta 2 can sell 1 to 2 million copies it can make other deva and pubs realize there is a market for it. Granted I am not sure that the market really exists anymore.

Which is a shame because I feel like games like this are becoming more and more rare.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Kotaku: Dressing Up In Stellar Blade Is So Much Fun
2
81
7K
Soodanim replied
  • Poll
Dragon's Dogma 2 | Review Thread
Analysis Review 11 12 13 14 15
731
69K
DavidGzz replied
Stellar Blade | Preview Thread
Opinion Event Hype 3 4 5 6 7
315
27K
Toots replied
Bayonetta Origins Director Wants To Expand The Game Into A New Series
Opinion Game Dev
11
1K
cireza replied
Bayonneta 3 | Review Thread
Analysis Review Platform 3 4 5 6 7
318
21K
Keihart replied
Top Bottom