Zap Rowsdower
Banned
Because we Americans are masters at not accepting fault, gotta have a scapegoat.
Can't accept the fact that our country is falling apart and other countries are doing much better. American exceptionalism or bust!
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Bloomberg Poll: Hillary Clinton more unpopular than Donald Trump
- Thread starter Schattenjäger
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Can't accept the fact that our country is falling apart and other countries are doing much better. American exceptionalism or bust!
Oh good. A thread where Hillary supporters call anybody critical of her sexist...
Sexism is obviously a factor in her loss but it isn't the whole story. Just like Comey isn't the whole reason. Or Benghazi nonsense. Or fucking anything. It was death by a thousand cuts.
personally, I always thought that she was an awful candidate. She could never energize the base - which somehow people think doesn't matter in a fucking national election. The last major cause she put her name on was healthcare and it was over 20 years ago. She has only won two elections - one while First Lady to a popular blue president in a blue state, and the other time as an incumbent. She couldn't defeat Obama despite being the "establishment" candidate. She had a hate campaign run against her for over 20 years that showed no signs of letting up - yet I kept hearing fucking nonsense like somehow she was the candidate who could get things done...how?! You think Obama had it rough? You have no fucking idea how impossible doing anything would've been if Republicans could hold onto even a shred of power.
Honestly, anybody who thought she would be a great candidate needs to seriously reevaluate their ability to discuss and think about politics.
Sexism is obviously a factor in her loss but it isn't the whole story. Just like Comey isn't the whole reason. Or Benghazi nonsense. Or fucking anything. It was death by a thousand cuts.
personally, I always thought that she was an awful candidate. She could never energize the base - which somehow people think doesn't matter in a fucking national election. The last major cause she put her name on was healthcare and it was over 20 years ago. She has only won two elections - one while First Lady to a popular blue president in a blue state, and the other time as an incumbent. She couldn't defeat Obama despite being the "establishment" candidate. She had a hate campaign run against her for over 20 years that showed no signs of letting up - yet I kept hearing fucking nonsense like somehow she was the candidate who could get things done...how?! You think Obama had it rough? You have no fucking idea how impossible doing anything would've been if Republicans could hold onto even a shred of power.
Honestly, anybody who thought she would be a great candidate needs to seriously reevaluate their ability to discuss and think about politics.
Father_Brain
Banned
More likely Bloomberg, frankly.
Theonik
Member
Eh, I imagine some would the whole /Red Scare/ mentality still lives on in the American Zeitgeist.
The question is how many would it be. Would it swing the election? If people can complain about 'unfaithful berniebros' people would complain about hillarybros regardless of being able to substantiate the claim.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
How do you win a primary without winning over the base ��
Also, in terms of her "getting it done". Usually that's in the context of having a deep understanding of politics, how Washington works, and being able to negotiate back door deals.
You know, something Trump is unable to do even with full control of the branches of government.
Zap Rowsdower
Banned
Because she rigged it with her evil Clinton magic, silly.
I really regret ever voting for Bernie in the primary. Even though I was just voting more for social democracy than the man himself he was clearly only in it for the fame and his cult of personality and not the policy.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
LOL
Isn't this the exact same kind of political elitism that Bernie supporters imagined and raged over Clinton supporters throwing at them?
psst!
We rigged it by closer to 4 million.
Give us due credit.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm actually amenable to the idea that the DNCs thumb on the scale could have tipped the primary away from Sanders to Clinton if he had lost by like...30,000 votes. In a presidential primary that's the sort of number where I would say "okay sure maybe messaging from the DNC, maybe institutional apathy, maybe playing a favorite caused Sanders to lose"
But nah. You don't "influence" your way into a 3 million vote loss.
But nah. You don't "influence" your way into a 3 million vote loss.
Read what he said, he is saying the Clinton supporters on this site would have voted for Trump over Sanders. That is just pure projection.
Theonik
Member
Some would have. Hell, I recall a handful making that threat during the primaries.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
on here?
minor effort
Banned
Threats made in the heat of a contentious primary battle often aren't followed through on.
See also: PUMA / HillaryIs44 (2008), Bernie->Trump voters (2012)
I think at the absolute worst some intractable people might have sat out voting in the general.
They said if Sanders won the nomination they would vote for Trump?
Meanwhile, Hillary loses by something like 40k votes across multiple states, after being the victim of one of the most sophisticated social media propaganda campaigns carried out by a foreign government, and yet the primary reason she lost was because she was a "bad candidate." She had like a 10 point lead prior to the Podesta emails, which just so happened to come out the day after the Access Hollywood tape. Trump was tanking, then suddenly the Podesta emails were weaponized by every fucking right-wing media outlet imaginable, pizza-gate was flowing through the likes of Twitter and FB like a fucking plague....and it worked. Those moderates who were siding with Hillary instead of the pussy grabber suddenly felt like she was just as bad, or at least found a reason to believe so.
Theonik
Member
Yes.
Well yeah, if anything the numbers indicate that people simply weren't energised/didn't bother to vote for her either thinking it was in the bag or not wanting to vote for a candidate they didn't like because they weren't an R. I wouldn't necessarily blame them because the electoral system is dumb.
I can believe it. Republicans got what they want out of the election and so far they're probably pretty positive on Trump. Democrats still hate Trump, but now a good number are disappointed in Clinton as well. We're six months into a four year term. Give it time. Trump's numbers are going to be GWB second term bad before too long.
And you think that more than a handful of people (less than 10) would have actually done it? I just think you are cherry picking and conflating it to something grander than it is.
Seriously, that guy said Clinton supporters on here would flip their vote if Sanders had won the nomination. That is just bullshit.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
If you can produce a post of a Hillary supporter saying they would flip trump if sanders won, I'll send you a hundred bucks
Elaugaufein
Member
This isn't surprising.
Trump's voting base and many Republicans need to support him out of solidarity as he's the sitting President.
Clinton no longer benefits from that and eats the unpopularity of 'letting' Trump win.
She was barely more popular than him without those factors in play.
Trump's voting base and many Republicans need to support him out of solidarity as he's the sitting President.
Clinton no longer benefits from that and eats the unpopularity of 'letting' Trump win.
She was barely more popular than him without those factors in play.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Well, four more years I guess
minor effort
Banned
Yes, but that's not the point you were initially making nor the one that I responded to.
You and another person in this thread were saying that some Clinton supporters would have gone all the way towards becoming active Trump supporters and voters if Sanders had won the nomination, which I think is ridiculous. Maybe one or two deluded people might have been spiteful enough to drag that all the way to November, but they probably would have been laughed off the board instead of being encouraged.
Just as I thought the idea of significant numbers of Sanders voters aligning with Trump was.
Even if you do find them, I wouldn't put too much stock in the threats people make while Mad Online™ during the ugliest points in a primary.
SoulUnison
Banned
Because the President can't go a day without blaming some boogeyman on her apparently looming shadow.
It's really hard for me to read this poll as anything but "Being a racist, misogynist, pathological liar is bad... But a woman is worse."
ResidentWeevil13
Member
If I'm gonna be honest, my dislike for her has grown since the election. But I also acknowledge a lot of it stems from being dissapointed that she couldn't close the deal. I mean how do you loose against this clown, I mean come on.
Theonik
Member
Please indicate where I said that. Hell if NeoGAF even had any noticeable impact on the electoral results, we wouldn't be having this discussion!
Besides, you see people accuse 'Berniebros' over here all the time including accusations of sexism, some going so far as attributing the election loss to that. I don't think that's really a fair assessment.
Ask all the other Republican primary candidates.
cheezcake
Member
She did a good job in the primary, she did a shit job in the general. I believe that's what the poster was saying.
And it's absolutely true.
minor effort
Banned
Fair enough, you didn't, so I edited it from "significant numbers" to "some". I still question whether any would have followed through with it.
Accusations get thrown around, true, but I think the accusation was more about people deliberately sitting out voting or voting third-party/write-in rather than shifting from voting from Bernie to Donald Trump. The former tends to happen a lot more than the latter, and the latter is a lot more repugnant than the former. People don't do 180 shifts in their political views on a dime for reasons of spite on a daily basis.
7DollarHagane
Banned
She was clearly the best Democratic candidate.
eBay Huckster
Member
oh good, another drive-by post from someone who didn't actually read anything i or anyone else who brought up sexism typed
Theonik
Member
Your guess is as good as mine. Secret ballot and all that. They might have gone for Harambe for all I know, or just voted for Hillary anyway.
Fallout-NL
Member
All of it factors in why she lost. Still, the dnc underestimating just how much people hated hrc is a major one though.
???
What?
The DNC doesn't pick the candidate.
The 👏 DNC 👏 Does 👏 Not 👏 Pick 👏 The 👏 Candidate 👏
I swear to god this was the most heart palpatating thing about last year.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
actually I'm the DNC
i decided on Clinton
please send all questions and comments to my drop box or gmail
i decided on Clinton
please send all questions and comments to my drop box or gmail
Mr. Giggles
Member
Shoulda been Bernie.
Fallout-NL
Member
Eh yeah, well democrats as a whole with a party that favored one candidate over others. Sorry.
There is the small matter of giving one candidate debate and town hall questions in advance. DNC choosing to have so few candidates and debates in the run up to the primary. Have a majority of super-delegates declare for a candidate before anyone has even voted(I believe at least 1/3 of super-delegates had declared for Clinton in August of 2015). Had there been more candidates I don't think Clinton would have won the primary. Her weaknesses would have split her coalition and we would have had a better candidate in the general that wouldn't have lost to Donald Trump.
Theonik
Member
$100 huh?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201073754&postcount=7
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201074196&postcount=33
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201075352&postcount=83
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201074616&postcount=52
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201073940&postcount=18
Etc etc. Mind you can find more posts if you look around, and the actual number could be either higher or lower. But having said that, most dems would fall in line and vote blue anyway as that thread shows. Same probably applies to Bernie supporters generally I would think.
Only one of those people said they would vote for Trump over Sanders.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
And that one post appears to be facetious ("If I can't get what I want than neither should anyone else.").
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Hmm...
🤔
Not to mention none of those mention Clinton but whatevs
Theonik
Member
I mean if we can't trust the word of posters what is the point in this exercise?!
GoldenEye 007
Member
Yes, that's why she got many more votes and that's why you have a primary process. How else do you think a candidate is selected?
BTW, what's your opinion of caucuses?
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