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Brandon Sanderson - The Cosmere |OT| there's always another secret...
- Thread starter ExMachina
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Aaronrules380
Member
I mean, wasn't a huge part of the point about the lighteyes that they weren't inherently superior just because of their eye colors
Poodlestrike
Banned
Oh, he's not anywhere NEAR Orson Scott Card's level. It's more like Jim Butcher, except Sanderson still practices; the belief system leaks through, but it's not the focus, and it's utterly without deliberate hate. As far as I know, anyway.
Yeah, but the original Knights Radiant were were, for a given value of "superior."
I'm not leveling any accusations mind, it's just an uncomfortably familiar sounding note. I doubt it's intentional. Hell, I'm not even sure it's related. Could just be a coincidence.
captjohnboyd
Member
I would say that sure seems to be the case in which case it's clear he doesn't subscribe to any of the sort of racist tendencies of fringe Mormonism. I just checked out a couple of FAQs he did about his faith and it's influence on his writing and he said all the right things in my mind so I'm pretty comfortable with this knowledge now
StrangeADT
Banned
His notions of morality are definitely in his work, which is perfectly fine and expected; an author is a person and it's pretty much impossible not to put some of your morality on the page. With that said, I haven't found anything in his books overly preachy. The faith arc for sazed in HoA is the only thing I can think of that borders on it, but I don't think it was actually preachy. I was just annoyed at the awful conclusions sazed came to via extremely faulty logic.
Im in the process or reading WoR. Only about 150 pages in so I'm sure I haven't hit that scene yet. Looking forward to it.
Which scene?
The Knights Radiant do have supernatural abilities, but given the way they work, they can be hardly called superior per se. They were protectors and servants (in a more figurative sense rather than literal). Indeed the modern Rosharian caste/class systems seem to be based on nigh-forgotten memory of the old Knights Radiant. Occasionally flipped...
Brandon's Mormon faith is definitely important to him and certainly it informs his work, but he's also just a genuinely thoughtful, open-minded guy whose views have evolved over the years. He's been increasingly prioritizing inclusivity when it comes to writing characters, finding consultants/doing research, and hiring artists.
So I'd say the chances of him pulling an OSC are microscopic.
And hey, if it wasn't for his LDS mission in South Korea, we wouldn't have gotten The Emperor's Soul or the Alethi.
So I'd say the chances of him pulling an OSC are microscopic.
And hey, if it wasn't for his LDS mission in South Korea, we wouldn't have gotten The Emperor's Soul or the Alethi.
when he
saves Elhokar from Moash and says one of the Knights Radiants ideals, then goes flying to fight Szeth, specially significant when Elhokar was the one directly responsible for putting in charge the Lighteyes that made his and his family lives a living hell in his hometown
Imp the Dimp
Member
Brandon's Mormon faith is definitely important to him and certainly it informs his work, but he's also just a genuinely thoughtful, open-minded guy whose views have evolved over the years. He's been increasingly prioritizing inclusivity when it comes to writing characters, finding consultants/doing research, and hiring artists.
So I'd say the chances of him pulling an OSC are microscopic.
And hey, if it wasn't for his LDS mission in South Korea, we wouldn't have gotten The Emperor's Soul or the Alethi.
Yeah he's nothing like Card who I quit reading as well. The fact that Sanderson's faith leads to no explicit sex scenes in his books is irrelevant to me and as far as I can tell, his books are oftentimes about people in no position of power, people of color (which the minorities in Mistborn essentially are, forgot their name) and men and women alike. Not sure what Brandon thinks privately about these things but if he's hiding something it's not leaking into his books. I'm fine with separating art from the author in this case.
Writing accurately about characters with depression is one of those weird things. People who haven't dealt in a very close way just really dislike it, because depression can be a really frustrating thing to deal with. I get that some people find that grating. You may think, why can't they just stop being depressed? But I really enjoying reading a character like Kaladin, and I think people with depression very much appreciate seeing protagonists who are "flawed" in the way they are and that they can relate to.
Yup. I fell in love with the first book immediately because of that. I've had to deal with depression for years and I've hit that point where I'm finally getting a handle on life and I love it. Reading about a character who feels like he has nothing left fighting for was something else.
haven't read the whole thing yet (it's pretty long) but for those in need of a solid recap for Stormlight I think this will do the trick http://www.tor.com/2017/08/15/stormlight-archive-refresher/
I started The Way of Kings the other day. I read the first Mistborn trilogy a couple of years ago and have been putting off the Stormlight Archive because I try to avoid unfinished series, but what the hell, here we are.
The one thing I've heard time and time again is that this book supposedly starts slow and stuff doesn't really begin to happen until the last third or so. Frankly, I'm already totally invested in a handful of characters, and would gladly read about their struggles for the other 800 pages or so. Knowing that there's, let's say, more coming only makes me more excited. I listen to Writing Excuses so the concept of the Sanderson Avalanche is familiar, and I can't even imagine how that'll play out in this book.
So yeah, glad that I finally bit the bullet. At the rate I read, I'll just about be done with WoK, Warbreaker, and WoR when Oathbringer comes out, so then I can be miserable for the next three years with all y'all.
The one thing I've heard time and time again is that this book supposedly starts slow and stuff doesn't really begin to happen until the last third or so. Frankly, I'm already totally invested in a handful of characters, and would gladly read about their struggles for the other 800 pages or so. Knowing that there's, let's say, more coming only makes me more excited. I listen to Writing Excuses so the concept of the Sanderson Avalanche is familiar, and I can't even imagine how that'll play out in this book.
So yeah, glad that I finally bit the bullet. At the rate I read, I'll just about be done with WoK, Warbreaker, and WoR when Oathbringer comes out, so then I can be miserable for the next three years with all y'all.
Every single one of Sanderson's fantasy series has some type of minority people who are being treated terribly by those in power. Said minority group is always portrayed in a better light than their oppressors, and typically several of the main protags are from that minority group. Not sure where people are getting whifs of Orson Scott Card from.
Jest Chillin
Member
I would assume no unless you can find information that clearly states otherwise. Graphic Audio still seems rather niche and takes more production than regular audiobook.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Just to add to this, they'll almost certainly split the book into five parts* like the previous ones, and they seem to like releasing one "part" a month.
I'm in the same waiting boat as you btw. I listened to the normal audiobooks of 1 and 2, but now that I know GraphicAudio has picked these up, I really want to listen to their version first.
*And in case you happened to be wondering, these "parts" don't correspond to the five parts Sanderson purposefully split the book into. This annoys me. A lot.
I wonder about that myself. When I began TSA I had already read literally everything else in the cosmere (published works at least) so I was obviously very invested in the expanded universe and didn't need a "hook" for WOK specifically. Thinking back to my time reading it though there were definitely some parts early on where I kind of felt like I just wanted to get to the next chapter already. Think that was especially prevalent among flashback chapters. I enjoyed them but sometimes it felt like they were interrupting from the rest of the story.
Wowfunhappy
Member
I just couldn't get invested at all in early Kaladin or Shallan. Kal is a hopeless slave whose life sucks in basically every imaginable way and we don't know why—I can only take so much depression. Shallan was better, but her plot advances very little, and she spends a lot of time thinking about what she's going to do without it ever happening.
I remember thinking that the first chapter of part 2, which introduces Dalinar, was a breath of fresh air, albeit not enough by itself.
The payoff of all these plot lines is fantastic, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the first entry in a ten (five?) book series to take a while to get going. But yeah, it was rough.
It's sad to say, but I would have abandoned other books. I finished Way of Kings only because I'd already read a decent amount of Sanderson at that point, and my father had already finished the books and promised me they got better.
While I will admit I've never had issues with depression, I don't recall ever thinking this way about Kaladin. Given the situation he is in, he has every right to be depressed*—and I would sure as heck be depressed if I was him. There's just a limit to how much I can physically take.
*This is not to imply that other people don't have a "right" to be depressed regardless of their situation. I'm speaking to how Kaladin's situation in particular was understandable to me.
I liked Kaladin's bits well enough but they could be tough to read at times (as has been discussed above). Shallan definitely I just felt like I didn't really understand who she was or what was actually happening with her. Her personality could also be a little bit grating before you get to know her better as the book goes on. To me she was just kind of... unsympathetic, at first?
Aaronrules380
Member
A reminder that the serialization for Oathbringer has started and the prologue has been posted online today. Next week we'll get chapters 1-3, and 3 more chapters each week after until chapter 32
Just read the prologue myself
Just read the prologue myself
I wonder what the powerful ancient spren they have (had?) trapped is, since I sincerely doubt it was Odium himself
Wowfunhappy
Member
Darnnit, I think it's time for me to leave this thread then, since I'm waiting for the audio version. You guys are pretty good about spoilers, but I don't want to risk it.
See you on the other side...
See you on the other side...
Wafflecakes
Member
I would agree but the Tensoon stuff in the second and third books is fantastic.
I got a bit sick of Vin and Elend though.
Making Elend and Mistborn was stupid AF
I see people say this from time to time and I don't really follow why. It accomplished a number of things narratively for Mistborn and for the cosmere as well.
I remember when I first read it, at the end of WoA, my reaction was something like, "wait, really?"
Ultimately I think it was a good idea though, for the reasons you stated, and also something which I believe Brandon said in an annotation -- that he thought Elend's character arc pretty much ran its course after the second book, and to make him (and Vin) more interesting in Hero of Ages, he needed to add something to it. This obviously bore fruit in various ways during the 3rd book.
Wafflecakes
Member
I felt like it trivialized Vin and all of her struggles. She was set up as almost the "chosen one".
...only for some other guy to be bigger, badder, and stronger because well... he ate a rock.
elshoelace
Member
Kind of how I felt at first but if I recall he wasn't very skillful with his powers like Vin.
Did you forget that one fight scene in Hero of Ages where Vin basically
becomes a Super Saiyan and kills all of the Inquisitors? And then literally becomes a god? If that's not chosen one I don't know what is.
Wafflecakes
Member
In the long term yes, but that was not how I felt throughout book 2.
...and none of what Vin did necessitated
Elend becoming a Mistborn. Hell, I don't feel like Elend's plot necessitated him becoming Mistborn.
Yep. Elend's powers were "stronger" becasue he ate a bead of lerasium, the origination of the powers. But Vin was still considered the stronger Mistborn because her skills far eclipsed Elend's. This even added an interesting dynamic to their relationship.
Also that. She wasn't
the Hero of Ages
Er, it happened at the end of Book 2?
Wafflecakes
Member
When I say book 2, I mean while in the process of reading book two.
...and again. It is irrelevant since the reason it felt cheap to me is because
I think Elend's story could have been told perfectly fine without powers.
It wasn't necessarily wrong. It was just out of place in the story for me.
Wafflecakes
Member
Why is that an issue? The story wasn't about him.
I think it is pretty clear that the main character was Vin. There are plenty of regulars in the books that don't have major changes in every book.
....and end of the world means changes for everyone. That would have been enough imo.
He was the secondary protagonist. Between him and Vin over the course of the trilogy, he had the second most POV time. Elend was a huge part of the story.
This here is pretty cool: https://brandonsanderson.com/kaladin-the-original-book-soundtrack-from-the-black-piper/
there's samples on their soundcloud page https://soundcloud.com/theblackpiper and this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUmBY637oJc
also an album cover:
there's samples on their soundcloud page https://soundcloud.com/theblackpiper and this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUmBY637oJc
also an album cover:
Archaeopteryx
Member
Oh my, not sure how I missed this. the U.K. cover for Oathbringer is boss as hell
Yes it is. I'm in Canada but I order all of Sanderson's books from the UK for these cover styles.
I dig our cover too, but yeah it's tempting
£32 incl shipping is a lot though... but even on amazon.ca it's $40! good god why is it so much?! hope the price drops below $30 before release...
So, after finishing Elantris, the Mistborn trilogy (including the trippy Kelsier short story) and Wax and Wayne books I've started Stormlight archive. While I've liked all the books a lot (specially W&W, they are awesome) I'm getting a little tired of Sanderson's tropes to be honest:
- Too many new words constantly. It sort of works at the end of the books and it certainly makes for compelling world building, but it makes the first readings a confusing mess at times.
- There's some underlying sexism in these stories that I don't like. I mean, I'm not saying the books are sexist per se, but there's definitely something and it distracts me. It's not the end of the world but it sometimes can get somewhat uncomfortable when all the guys are warriors at heart and all the girls are scholars. Except Vin, but Vin is boring. I get that that's the way the Alethar people are, for example, but in the Mistborn books it's all the same with a totally different culture.
- All the damn characters are charming and witty. That works in W&W, it really doesn't in The way of Kings or with damn Vin. Vin is boring, stop trying to make her happen. Even Sazed is more interesting than Vin. Ugh. I think this is more a writing style thing than the characters themselves, but literally every POV character speaks and thinks the same. And all of them are insecure as fuck.
- On that note, all the POV characters can be divided in two: Raoden and Sarene. All the cool guys are Raoden all the cool girls are Sarene. Then there's Vin. Ugh again.
BUT! Don't let my criticism distract you! I love these stories, there's some serious lore there, the details are amazing and there's a rich and deep story behind everything. Sanderson has a great imagination and his detailed explanations of the powers at work are usually spot on. They remind me a bit of Togashi's (Yu yu and HunterxHunter author) style. I would like a little bit more of sex and gore, but we have Abercrombie for that.
In the end I think Sanderson is a great world-builder but ultimately a poor writer (maybe due to his pace, it sounds impossible to write good AND fast). That's not really bad in the end because he writes FAST so at least we know we'll get closure.
Edit: Oh, I'm in the middle of WOK and Dalinar is my favorite character thus far by a large margin. He's a breath of fresh air amongst all the other POV of the Cosmere. Then there's Adolin, another Raoden.
- Too many new words constantly. It sort of works at the end of the books and it certainly makes for compelling world building, but it makes the first readings a confusing mess at times.
- There's some underlying sexism in these stories that I don't like. I mean, I'm not saying the books are sexist per se, but there's definitely something and it distracts me. It's not the end of the world but it sometimes can get somewhat uncomfortable when all the guys are warriors at heart and all the girls are scholars. Except Vin, but Vin is boring. I get that that's the way the Alethar people are, for example, but in the Mistborn books it's all the same with a totally different culture.
- All the damn characters are charming and witty. That works in W&W, it really doesn't in The way of Kings or with damn Vin. Vin is boring, stop trying to make her happen. Even Sazed is more interesting than Vin. Ugh. I think this is more a writing style thing than the characters themselves, but literally every POV character speaks and thinks the same. And all of them are insecure as fuck.
- On that note, all the POV characters can be divided in two: Raoden and Sarene. All the cool guys are Raoden all the cool girls are Sarene. Then there's Vin. Ugh again.
BUT! Don't let my criticism distract you! I love these stories, there's some serious lore there, the details are amazing and there's a rich and deep story behind everything. Sanderson has a great imagination and his detailed explanations of the powers at work are usually spot on. They remind me a bit of Togashi's (Yu yu and HunterxHunter author) style. I would like a little bit more of sex and gore, but we have Abercrombie for that.
In the end I think Sanderson is a great world-builder but ultimately a poor writer (maybe due to his pace, it sounds impossible to write good AND fast). That's not really bad in the end because he writes FAST so at least we know we'll get closure.
Edit: Oh, I'm in the middle of WOK and Dalinar is my favorite character thus far by a large margin. He's a breath of fresh air amongst all the other POV of the Cosmere. Then there's Adolin, another Raoden.
Haven't read Elantris yet but I've finished the Mistborn books and am a little over halfway through WOK. Dalinar is indeed a great character.
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