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Cavaliers have traded Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Žiži, & pick

A

Apath

Member
Dragun619 said:
Cavs still needs to work on their roster. Got 17 players under contract and they would need make a spot open if DWade does get his buyout and decides to join the Cavs too.

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Who ya'll think they'll waive or trade? Man, Shumpert has to be gone at least, right?
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They definitely have another trade in the works.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
KazenY2J said:
A 22 year old who just averaged 23 PPG would be considered untouchable, tbh
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The advanced stats don't view him as highly as you do. Plus, there are at most, half a dozen or so untouchable guys in the league. If a guy like Kyrie can be moved (albeit, he did demand the trade), Wiggins can be traded too.

Truthfully, KAT is far more untouchable than Wiggins in my book. Maybe the most untouchable of any player not already a superstar (i.e. LeBron, Durant, etc.).
 
D

darkazcura

Member
Frozenprince said:
Not saying local media is trying to shit on him, most media guys were very thankful for all he did and accomplished, Grande and Maxwell had a whole thing IIRC.

But this is SOP for all local FO's to do. Bruins did it with Dougie Hamilton, Sox do it with everybody, Celtics now with IT

Ain't bout the Celtics you filthy mustard pleb
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Stop projecting Bruins and Red Sox crap front office tactics on to the Celtics. Celtics are some of the best at treating their former players. They had a welcome back ceremony/highlight reel for Jeff freakin Green.
 
B

Bread

Banned
darkazcura said:
Kyrie is not much different in that respect then. At least Wiggins has the tools to be a very good defender at the most important position in the league, even if it is not entirely likely he gets to that point.
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Kyrie is leagues above Wiggins. You're putting way too much weight on his points per game to put them in the same category.
 
D

darkazcura

Member
Bread said:
Kyrie is leagues above Wiggins. You're putting way too much weight on his points per game to put them in the same category.
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??? Didn't say they were on the same level currently, but if a criticism of Wiggins is that he only scores, it really makes no sense in a conversation relative to Irving..who only scores. It's only logical.

Also, Wiggins still has potential to be a 25-27 PPG guy on a top offensive team and has potential to be at least decent defensively at a more desired position. He also draws fouls at a near elite rate, which is super useful and usually an indicator of a potential elite scorer. That is simply a more valuable player than Irving, and I say this as a Celtic fan. If I were Minny, I would also never trade Wiggins for Irving.
 
S

Sandfox

Member
Sanjuro said:
...why are we talking about Wiggins?
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Someone posted an article about Wiggins for Kyrie, but the Timberwolves made him untradeable.
darkazcura said:
??? Didn't say they were on the same level currently, but if a criticism of Wiggins is that he only scores, it really makes no sense in a conversation relative to Irving..who only scores. It's only logical.

Also, Wiggins still has potential to be a 25-27 PPG guy on a top offensive team and has potential to be at least decent defensively at a more desired position. That is simply a more valuable player than Irving, and I say this as a Celtic fan. If I were Minny, I would also never trade Wiggins for Irving.
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Wiggins would have to work his way up to simply being bad defensively first.
 
D

darkazcura

Member
Sandfox said:
Someone posted an article about Wiggins for Kyrie, but the Timberwolves made him untradeable.

Wiggins would have to work his way up to simply being bad defensively first.
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I mean..still..Irving also sucks defensively. I guess the draw back there is that Wiggins plays a position where defense is more important.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
darkazcura said:
Kyrie is not much different in that respect then. At least Wiggins has the tools to be a very good defender at the most important position in the league, even if it is not entirely likely he gets to that point.



Lol, this. It's Broussard for crying out loud.
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How does someone who is awful defensively have the "tools" to be a very good defender? This is the problem with guys like Wiggins people see a guy who is long and athletic and assume he's like 90% of the way there. There are a ton of athletic guys who are shit defenders, and most of them stay shit defenders.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
darkazcura said:
Kyrie is not much different in that respect then. At least Wiggins has the tools to be a very good defender at the most important position in the league, even if it is not entirely likely he gets to that point.



Lol, this. It's Broussard for crying out loud.
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Sandfox said:
Someone posted an article about Wiggins for Kyrie, but the Timberwolves made him untradeable.

Wiggins would have to work his way up to simply being bad defensively first.
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Wiggins has been a disappointment honestly.. his defense is bad, and considering his physical gifts.. it's an embarrassment. His Assist/Turnover is a 1.0. For a guy with good offensive skills who can command a double team, he is bad at finding up guys and getting them to score. He isn't a good shot blocker despite a 7' wingspan and hops. He's an average 3pt shooter.

I mean he can get better.. and he's solid.. but as a #1 pick with the hype he had coming into the league you can't help but think he's underwhelming.

I like the guy though, he seems like a good guy.. he has physical gifts for sure. He just hasn't translated that into any kind of dominance.

There's a reason there's a debate if he's a max guy.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Gigglepoo said:
How were scouts so wrong about Wiggins. Everyone said he'd be a premier defender in the draft.
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Because he "looks" the part.

Same reason nobody would have expected Draymond, who is traditionally short for his position and doesn't have flashy jump out the gym athleticism, to become one of the best defenders in the league.
 
D

darkazcura

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
How does someone who is awful defensively have the "tools" to be a very good defender? This is the problem with guys like Wiggins people see a guy who is long and athletic and assume he's like 90% of the way there. There are a ton of athletic guys who are shit defenders, and most of them stay shit defenders.
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If Wiggins still sucks at defending after learning from Butler I will drop the idea of him ever developing that part of his game, but it's pretty common for young teams like Minny to be horrible defensively. Let's see what he can do learning from a top defender who plays his position.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
darkazcura said:
If Wiggins still sucks at defending after learning from Butler I will drop the idea of him ever developing that part of his game, but it's pretty common for young teams like Minny to be horrible defensively. Let's see what he can do learning from a top defender who plays his position.
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Teams yes? Players? He needs to learn from Butler? You are reaching with these scenarios. The odds that someone is going to go from awful defensively to good just because he hangs out with Jimmy Butler aren't very high. That doesn't happen often. There are plenty of young, athletic wings in the league who are bad defensively and more often than not they stay bad defensively. Not sure what makes Wiggins different outside of people desperate to hold on to the hype.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Because he "looks" the part.

Same reason nobody would have expected Draymond, who is traditionally short for his position and doesn't have flashy jump out the gym athleticism, to become one of the best defenders in the league.
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Was Wiggins a good defender in college at least?
 
S

Sandfox

Member
NervousXtian said:
Wiggins has been a disappointment honestly.. his defense is bad, and considering his physical gifts.. it's an embarrassment. His Assist/Turnover is a 1.0. For a guy with good offensive skills who can command a double team, he is bad at finding up guys and getting them to score. He isn't a good shot blocker despite a 7' wingspan and hops. He's an average 3pt shooter.

I mean he can get better.. and he's solid.. but as a #1 pick with the hype he had coming into the league you can't help but think he's underwhelming.

I like the guy though, he seems like a good guy.. he has physical gifts for sure. He just hasn't translated that into any kind of dominance.

There's a reason there's a debate if he's a max guy.
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He's also one of the worst rebounders at his position in the league.
Gigglepoo said:
Was Wiggins a good defender in college at least?
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In college he was getting hyped up as a good defender that would struggle offensively. After the "next Lebron" stuff died down of course.
 
G

gdt

Member
As a low info sports fan, is there really a chance Lebron leaves after this season? I just figured he was would his career at home especially since he left once already.
 
D

darkazcura

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Teams yes? Players? He needs to learn from Butler? You are reaching with these scenarios. The odds that someone is going to go from awful defensively to good just because he hangs out with Jimmy Butler aren't very high. That doesn't happen often. There are plenty of young, athletic wings in the league who are bad defensively and more often than not they stay bad defensively. Not sure what makes Wiggins different outside of people desperate to hold on to the hype.
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lol I didn't even like Wiggins in the draft. I was a Parker guy. He's actually been better than I thought he would be, and I can see the potential people were talking about offensively now. This has more to do with me not being a Kyrie guy. Just saying I wouldn't trade Wiggins for Kyrie either. Even if he never changes defensively, he still has potential to be a 25-27 PPG guy on good efficiency. I'll take that on the wing over a PG who gets me 25-27 PPG and is also terrible defensively.

It's all moot anyway I guess. Trade's over.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
gdt said:
As a low info sports fan, is there really a chance Lebron leaves after this season? I just figured he was would his career at home especially since he left once already.
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Lakers have been printing his jersey for months now.
 
S

Sandfox

Member
darkazcura said:
lol I didn't even like Wiggins in the draft. I was a Parker guy. He's actually been better than I thought he would be, and I can see the potential people were talking about offensively now. This has more to do with me not being a Kyrie guy. Just saying I wouldn't trade Wiggins for Kyrie either. Even if he never changes defensively, he still has potential to be a 25-27 PPG guy on good efficiency. I'll take that on the wing over a PG who gets me 25-27 PPG and is also terrible defensively.

It's all moot anyway I guess. Trade's over.
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If one starter on my team is bad defensively I'd rather it be the PG.
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
LTTP but Kyrie for Klay.... hahaha I need to take the rest of the night to regain my composure from uncontrollable laughter.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
Gigglepoo said:
Was Wiggins a good defender in college at least?
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Ninja Scooter said:
I think he mostly played out of position in the front court at Kansas. Not sure how he graded out.
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Sandfox said:
He's also one of the worst rebounders at his position in the league.

In college he was getting hyped up as a good defender that would struggle offensively. After the "next Lebron" stuff died down of course.
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I'm a Kansas alum, watched every game Wiggins played for KU. Dude was legit on D. Played against probably every position except for the 5. I was certain he'd at least be a lockdown defender in the NBA if nothing else. Oops.

I suspect he might have more ability on D, he just saves energy for the offensive end. Regardless, his D has been disappointing.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
darkazcura said:
lol I didn't even like Wiggins in the draft. I was a Parker guy. He's actually been better than I thought he would be, and I can see the potential people were talking about offensively now. This has more to do with me not being a Kyrie guy. Just saying I wouldn't trade Wiggins for Kyrie either. Even if he never changes defensively, he still has potential to be a 25-27 PPG guy on good efficiency. I'll take that on the wing over a PG who gets me 25-27 PPG and is also terrible defensively.

It's all moot anyway I guess. Trade's over.
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Good efficiency? That's the problem he's not efficient.

Potential becomes such an overused word. By that note Julius Randle has the "potential" to be a 25/10 guy, but he can't shoot. At some point guys, even young guys, are what they are, and yeah they can get better and improve, but if you are gonna peg someone as having potential to do a certain thing, it should at least be rooted in some kind of reality. You are claiming he has the potential to be an efficient scorer, and the potential to be a good defender, when he has shown zero of both. How much sense does that make?
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Wiggins is an efficient score though, you can't really argue he isn't.. and he is improving from distance.

It's the one really good thing about him.. it's everything else that has failed to materialize.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
Because he "looks" the part.

Same reason nobody would have expected Draymond, who is traditionally short for his position and doesn't have flashy jump out the gym athleticism, to become one of the best defenders in the league.
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To be fair, I imagine it's very hard to measure BB IQ unless you really study the player.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
NervousXtian said:
Wiggins is an efficient score though, you can't really argue he isn't.. and he is improving from distance.

It's the one really good thing about him.. it's everything else that has failed to materialize.
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He's not efficient. Unless you consider below league average eFG% and true shooting percentage to be "efficient". And that true shooting percentage actually got worse from last year to this year, so I'm not sure where this improvement you are seeing comes from. You realize there are actually ways to track and evaluate efficiency, and Wiggins tracks poorly in nearly every one of them?
 
J

jtb

Banned
Wasn't Wiggins supposed to be an elite defender coming out of Kansas?

What happened? No work ethic?
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Uncertainty about Isaiah Thomas' hip after guard's physical in Cleveland

After All-Star guard Isaiah Thomas underwent a physical examination in Cleveland on Friday, uncertainty over the fitness of his injured hip has Cavaliers officials evaluating the results and considering possible ramifications to the blockbuster trade that sent Kyrie Irving to the Boston Celtics earlier this week, league sources said.

Thomas took the exam in Cleveland on Friday. One source involved in the process said on Friday night, "It's a very sensitive situation."

The Cavaliers still are evaluating the medical information, and no final decision has been made, league sources said.
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This would be quite the twist.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
You think Ainge will regret leaking hit pieces to the press if the trade gets nixed?

Nah, he'll just call it "fake news" lol
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
If this were to fall apart, I think it'd be far easier for Isaiah to return to the Celts than for Kyrie to come back to Cleveland, given what's gone on in Cleveland this summer.

This is too much though.
 
S

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
gdt said:
As a low info sports fan, is there really a chance Lebron leaves after this season? I just figured he was would his career at home especially since he left once already.
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Where could he go is the better question.

I doubt the West. Ignoring GSW, Rockets and Spurs are still better than any team he has to face in the East with another 3 teams that are strong. East on the other hand, he can cruise to the playoffs.

Nor does it seem like any team in the East can give him the support he had at CLE, unless he wants to try and form another super team somewhere else.
 
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