• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Cavaliers have traded Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Žiži, & pick

CassidyIzABeast

CassidyIzABeast

Member
cdyhybrid said:
"Kyrie actually failed his physical first because he had tattoos that suggested gang ties"
Click to expand...

frame_ext.jpg
Click to expand...

400 block Ross Gang
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
mjp2417 said:
I suspect this will eventually get resolved by Boston sending out another draft pick. Still, what a shitshow.
Click to expand...

Normally I'd agree that this is all meaningless posturing, but there's been enough fuckery in the NBA the last few years to give me at least a little pause.
 
V

Vicetrailia

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Good efficiency? That's the problem he's not efficient.

Potential becomes such an overused word. By that note Julius Randle has the "potential" to be a 25/10 guy, but he can't shoot. At some point guys, even young guys, are what they are, and yeah they can get better and improve, but if you are gonna peg someone as having potential to do a certain thing, it should at least be rooted in some kind of reality. You are claiming he has the potential to be an efficient scorer, and the potential to be a good defender, when he has shown zero of both. How much sense does that make?
Click to expand...

He has the potential to be a good scorer because he's young and hasn't made a leap yet. He still has bad habits that are fixable. But he will always be terrible on rebs, asts, blk, stls, and defense. He'll never have an efficient fg% while being the number one option though, he's a chucker.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I guess this all depends on how bad the hip really is.

Would be huge if this was reversed.. but let's be honest.. if the injury is bad.. the Cavs have ALL the leverage in this deal to get a lot more.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
NervousXtian said:
I guess this all depends on how bad the hip really is.

Would be huge if this was reversed.. but let's be honest.. if the injury is bad.. the Cavs have ALL the leverage in this deal to get a lot more.
Click to expand...

I don't really see it that way. For the Cavs to have raised this issue, I think one of four things has to be true:

1) The Cavs didn't properly review the medicals that the Celtics sent over and discovered something during the physical that made them nervous, or their doctors disagree with the consensus.
2) The Cavs feel like they can use this situation to extort more assets from the Celts
3) The Cavs are waffling on trading Kyrie
4) The Celtics either didn't send complete medicals or somehow were otherwise deceptive on this issue

1, 2, and 3 are bad looks for the Cavs in GM circles (1 slightly less so). 4 is obviously a really, really bad look for the Celtics that would probably prompt punitive measures.

I don't see why it's harder for IT to come back to Boston than Kyrie go back to whatever the hell is happening in Cleveland this summer.

Also, if the Cavs get only a broken down IT, Crowder, and future picks for Kyrie, that's a disaster in LeBron's last year. Getting a ready fill in for Kyrie THIS year was a huge part of the deal.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
NervousXtian said:
I guess this all depends on how bad the hip really is.

Would be huge if this was reversed.. but let's be honest.. if the injury is bad.. the Cavs have ALL the leverage in this deal to get a lot more.
Click to expand...

If the Cleveland Clinic says he needs surgery, all bets are off. They're just about the foremost surgery center in the country.

For Isaiah's sake, I hope the report is good news for him, because hip injuries are nothing to fuck with. His ability to walk in the future is in jeopardy, fuck basketball.
 
M

mjp2417

Banned
spyder_ur said:
I don't really see it that way. For the Cavs to have raised this issue, I think one of four things has to be true:

1) The Cavs didn't properly review the medicals that the Celtics sent over and discovered something during the physical that made them nervous, or their doctors disagree with the consensus.
2) The Cavs feel like they can use this situation to extort more assets from the Celts
3) The Cavs are waffling on trading Kyrie
4) The Celtics either didn't send complete medicals or somehow were otherwise deceptive on this issue

1, 2, and 3 are bad looks for the Cavs in GM circles (1 slightly less so). 4 is obviously a really, really bad look for the Celtics that would probably prompt punitive measures.

I don't see why it's harder for IT to come back to Boston than Kyrie go back to whatever the hell is happening in Cleveland this summer.

Also, if the Cavs get only a broken down IT, Crowder, and future picks for Kyrie, that's a disaster in LeBron's last year. Getting a ready fill in for Kyrie THIS year was a huge part of the deal.
Click to expand...

If the deal falls through, Boston's best player is now both disgruntled and effectively untradable. Kyrie was obviously already disgruntled but he is still very, very tradable. The Cavs are just back to where they were at the start of the week. The Celtics are now in the same position the Cavs have been in all summer (i.e. the house is on fire) but unlike the Cavs they have no way of putting out the fire.
 
J

JCizzle

Member
mjp2417 said:
If the deal falls through, Boston's best player is now both disgruntled and effectively untradable. Kyrie was obviously already disgruntled but he is still very, very tradable. The Cavs are just back to where they were at the start of the week. The Celtics are now in the same position the Cavs have been in all summer (i.e. the house is on fire) but unlike the Cavs they have no way of putting out the fire.
Click to expand...

Except nobody will want to deal with their GM after this shitshow. Everyone knew his hip was questionable, it was very clearly priced into the package they received. That BKN pick is one of the most valuable assets in the league. IT4 is essentially just an expiring contract for the purposes of this deal. Based on his contract and injury situation, I would say he's the fourth most valuable piece following Kyrie, BKN, then Crowder.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
mjp2417 said:
If the deal falls through, Boston's best player is now both disgruntled and effectively untradable. Kyrie was obviously already disgruntled but he is still very, very tradable. The Cavs are just back to where they were at the start of the week. The Celtics are now in the same position the Cavs have been in all summer (i.e. the house is on fire) but unlike the Cavs they have no way of putting out the fire.
Click to expand...

It's not great for either side. But I'm not really seeing what the 'fire' is. The team is on really solid ground with coaching, management, and ownership, which the Cavs are not. Isaiah will be fine - he loves playing in Boston and the fans love him. It might take some time, but it'll pass.

If it's true that the injury is worse than expected, then obviously that really hurts the Cs.
 
M

mjp2417

Banned
JCizzle said:
Except nobody will want to deal with their GM after this shitshow. Everyone knew his hip was questionable, it was very clearly priced into the package they received. That BKN pick is one of the most valuable assets in the league. IT4 is essentially just an expiring contract for the purposes of this deal. Based on his contract and injury situation, I would say he's the fourth most valuable piece following Kyrie, BKN, then Crowder.
Click to expand...

There's a big difference between questionable and fucked. It's a moot point because neither you nor I know anything about the medical records exchanged or how severe IT's injury actually is. This isn't the first time a trade was voided because a player failed his physical. No one is going to refuse to trade for Kyrie Irving because Isaiah Thomas' injury turned out to be worse than previously believed. They will, however, refuse to trade for Isaiah Thomas.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
JCizzle said:
Except nobody will want to deal with their GM after this shitshow. Everyone knew his hip was questionable, it was very clearly priced into the package they received. That BKN pick is one of the most valuable assets in the league. IT4 is essentially just an expiring contract for the purposes of this deal. Based on his contract and injury situation, I would say he's the fourth most valuable piece following Kyrie, BKN, then Crowder.
Click to expand...

Nah that's bullshit.. you don't trade Kyrie for Crowder and a pick.

They needed IT for this year, as he replaced the offense that Kyrie gave them.

The injury is what put the pick in there for sure.. but that's with the injury not suggesting IT can't play this year.

If he needs surgery that's a whole another level.. and the trade isn't for an expiring contract of 6 million that doesn't mean shit to the Cavs long term.

Trying to downplay the value of IT in this trade is funny.. especially saying he was less important than the pick or Crowder which is just laughable.
 
J

JCizzle

Member
NervousXtian said:
Nah that's bullshit.. you don't trade Kyrie for Crowder and a pick.

They needed IT for this year, as he replaced the offense that Kyrie gave them.

The injury is what put the pick in there for sure.. but that's with the injury not suggesting IT can't play this year.

If he needs surgery that's a whole another level.. and the trade isn't for an expiring contract of 6 million that doesn't mean shit to the Cavs long term.

Trying to downplay the value of IT in this trade is funny.. especially saying he was less important than the pick or Crowder which is just laughable.
Click to expand...

The Cavs know LeBron is leaving, they don't give a shit about IT other than the tax savings he'll bring them. This deal is all about the future (BKN) and $$$ when you boil it down. Crowder's contract makes him incredibly valuable. This trade is for Gilbert, not LeBron. Everyone knows he's leaving and that they aren't beating the dubs this year.
 
Y

yuraya

Member
Tall4Life said:
But the regular season doesn't matter as many Cleve fans have told me. So so what if IT's gone for a while?
Click to expand...

LeBron will have to carry the cavs regardless this season.

If IT misses a lot of games it will actually be a good (and maybe final) opportunity for LeBron to win an MVP trophy.
 
J

Jay Shadow

Member
Tall4Life said:
But the regular season doesn't matter as many Cleve fans have told me. So so what if IT's gone for a while?
Click to expand...
Matters a bit more when you swap out one of your cores for a new one. Gotta have enough time to rebuild chemistry. I think the Cavs are still fine with him missing a few months, but if it looks to their doctors like he's not gonna be ready until 2018 it becomes a bigger issue.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
JCizzle said:
The Cavs know LeBron is leaving, they don't give a shit about IT other than the tax savings he'll bring them. This deal is all about the future (BKN) and $$$ when you boil it down. Crowder's contract makes him incredibly valuable. This trade is for Gilbert, not LeBron. Everyone knows he's leaving and that they aren't beating the dubs this year.
Click to expand...

This trade was absolutely about both short and long term for the Cavs. They have one last season of LeBron left. Any time you have LeBron you are in the mix, so why waste it? They wanted to field a competitive team this season, then blow it up next year. If IT can't go, that puts a severe damper on those plans. Ultimately it depends on how bad they thought ITs hip was prior to the trade. If they knew it was bad, and are now having cold feet, that's one thing. IF they did not know the extent of it until they got his medicals/phyisical, that's another. The fact that Boston is entering renegotiations and the trade was never actually finalized as-is, leads me to believe it's not the former.
 
J

JCizzle

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
This trade was absolutely about both short and long term for the Cavs. They have one last season of LeBron left. Any time you have LeBron you are in the mix, so why waste it? They wanted to field a competitive team this season, then blow it up next year. If IT can't go, that puts a severe damper on those plans. Ultimately it depends on how bad they thought ITs hip was prior to the trade. If they knew it was bad, and are now having cold feet, that's one thing. IF they did not know the extent of it until they got his medicals/phyisical, that's another. The fact that Boston is entering renegotiations and the trade was never actually finalized as-is, leads me to believe it's not the former.
Click to expand...

I mean, anyone with Google and WebMD could have told you the extent of this. I mean, he left the series against...Cleveland... with this injury. The fact they're acting surprised is laughable. They aren't winning shit this year and Gilbert doesn't care about LeBron winning, this was all about the BKN pick. Bagley and their tank pick in 19 plus the tax savings is what this is about. Gilbert is a very petty dude, he doesn't want LeBron to get what he wants on his way out. Maybe they get a second rounder out of this I guess, so good for them? Not worth the hit to their reputation.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
JCizzle said:
I mean, anyone with Google and WebMD could have told you the extent of this. I mean, he left the series against...Cleveland... with this injury. The fact they're acting surprised is laughable. They aren't winning shit this year and Gilbert doesn't give a shit about LeBron winning, this was all about the BKN pick. Bagley and their tank pick in 19 plus the tax savings is what this is about.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes, of course I forgot you can google a player's personal medical history. Why didn't Cleveland think of that? Your other assertions are all meaningless junk. This is proceeding in this way because IT's medicals are worse than Cleveland thought. You can make up shit in your head for why you think they shouldn't' have been surprised, but at the end of the day, none of us know exactly what they knew when the trade was discussed, and how that differs from what they know now. What we do know is that Cleve and Bos are now reengaging on trade talks to try and salvage this, Cleveland hasn't done anything wrong or against league rules.
 
Amory

Amory

Member
If I'm Ainge I tell CLE take or leave the deal as is. No sweetener. The deal was about the Nets pick anyway, not IT. And they clearly don't feel strongly enough about the hip to back out.

If the deal gets voided Boston takes over the east anyway in a year. There's no need to give anything else away.
 
J

JCizzle

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Ah, yes, of course I forgot you can google a player's personal medical history. Why didn't Cleveland think of that? Your other assertions are all meaningless junk. This is proceeding in this way because IT's medicals are worse than Cleveland thought. You can make up shit in your head for why you think they shouldn't' have been surprised, but at the end of the day, none of us know exactly what they knew when the trade was discussed, and how that differs from what they know now. What we do know is that Cleve and Bos are now reengaging on trade talks to try and salvage this, Cleveland hasn't done anything wrong or against league rules.
Click to expand...

We know he had a labrum tear, it's basically a pain management injury that will likely never fully heal and get progressively worse over time. The Cavs know he's not getting surgery on it. If they truly cared about short term return, he's not the guy to target and they should have just traded for Bledsoe, who coincidentally would cost them more...hmmmm...
 
L

Lee Chaolan

Member
Amory said:
If I'm Ainge I tell CLE take or leave the deal as is. No sweetener. The deal was about the Nets pick anyway, not IT. And they clearly don't feel strongly enough about the hip to back out.

If the deal gets voided Boston takes over the east anyway in a year. There's no need to give anything else away.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure Boston's not going to the negotiating table again simply to tell Cleveland to take it or leave it. That could be done in 30 seconds.

Don't be surprised if they get another first and a player out of this.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
Lee Chaolan said:
Pretty sure Boston's not going to the negotiating table again simply to tell Cleveland to take it or leave it. That could be done in 30 seconds.

Don't be surprised if they get another first and a player out of this.
Click to expand...

A first and a player? That seems unlikely to me. Unless the player ends up being someone like Larkin or Theiss.
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
Bread said:
If IT is in terrible shape did they really?
Click to expand...

Getting a great contract, a promising center and possibly the first overall pick for an angry player that doesn't want to be on your team. I don't think that's worse than what the Pacers got for Paul George. Celtics had to overpay because it was a trade with a rival and they obviously wanted Irving.
 
T

TraBuch

Banned
IT isn't an a position to let his unhappiness get in the way of his play. Even if he ends up not being traded, he can't afford to play like shit because this is pretty much his last chance at a max deal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

NBA 2015- 16 Regular Season IOTI - NBA GAF Is Pretty Dead Considering This Fact
307 308 309 310 311
16K
750K
Andrew Korenchkin replied
Top Bottom