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CBS Sports updated their top 50 NBA players list...

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Temp_User

Member
Bill Russell is 5'9 and the NBA had four teams back in 1947 when he was playing.
Kareem only got good when he had Michael Cooper and AC Green to carry him.

Are you for real?

Bill Russell is around 6'10" barefoot and his 'playing' height today would be listed as 6'11". And he only started playing in the NBA in 1956. I hope you're not confusing him with someone like George Mikan.

And the idea that Kareem was carried by Coop and Green has got to be one of the most ignorant sport-related things ive heard yet in this forum.
 

Lkr

Member
Are you for real?

Bill Russell is around 6'10" barefoot and his 'playing' height today would be listed as 6'11". And he only started playing in the NBA 1956. I hope youre not confusing him with someone like George Mikan.

And the idea that Kareem was carried by Coop and Green has got to be one of the most ignorant sport-related things ive heard yet in this forum.
This guy took the bait full on
 

Anoxida

Member
not if you care about things like defense and scoring efficiency

What are you even talking about? Did kobe get 3-4 undeserved all defense selections? Sure. But kobe age 20-30 was one of the best perimeter defense players we've seen. Also his ts% has always been good. Let me me guess you're 24 and started watching nba closely 2011. Just admit you've never seen the dude play in his prime. Anyone old enough remember how scary kobe was. He was able to play frequently on a level that lebron never has (ok gsme 6 vs celtics is legendary). Not that I think kobe is better than lebron though Leberons consistensty is amazing and I think he might be the most well rounded player of all time The thing about kobe is that he would give you 20-25 stinkers per season. If he was more consistent he'd be MJ level great.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I'm telling you the guy that gets the shaft is Niq.

Jordan and Scotty played together. Kobe and Shaq played together. Hell Dirk had Kidd the year he won. Celtics and Lakers had HoFers all over the fucking court.

Wilkins had 5 foot nothing Spud Webb.
 
What are you even talking about? Did kobe get 3-4 undeserved all defense selections? Sure. But kobe age 20-30 was one of the best perimeter defense players we've seen. Also his ts% has always been good. Let me me guess you're 24 and started watching nba closely 2011. Just admit you've never seen the dude play in his prime. Anyone old enough remember how scary kobe was. He was able to play frequently on a level that lebron never has (ok gsme 6 vs celtics is legendary). Not that I think kobe is better than lebron though Leberons consistensty is amazing and I think he might be the most well rounded player of all time The thing about kobe is that he would give you 20-25 stinkers per season. If he was more consistent he'd be MJ level great.

just about all of his all-defense selections were laughable farces--kobe has a career negative defensive box plus minus, he's played good defense literally only one season of his career (99-2000)

come back with some facts and try again
 

Lkr

Member
Can someone explain to an outsider why LeBron is revered this much?
Size, speed, athleticism, skill. Never missed serious time or had a serious injury.
The only players in this top 10 list that wouldn't get abused by LeBron physically if they had to match up with him an entire game are Shaq and Kareem.

Iverson is hella overrated. Kobe could have carried that 06 Lakers squad with that all time great starting lineup featuring stars like Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, and Kwame Brown to the Finals in the east back in 2001. The east was a fucking joke from MJ's retirement(his second retirement from the bulls...lol Jordan retired three times never forget) until the Pistons traded for Sheed.
 

LionPride

Banned
Can someone explain to an outsider why LeBron is revered this much?
Just what he's accomplished, the fact he was deemed the next great at 17 and accomplished that and then some. Carried some trash to playoffs, has been just the best player since like 2010, he's so great at everything.
 
Shaq above Kobe? Really?

screen-shot-2016-04-30-at-9-08-09-pm.png
 

winjet81

Member
Fuck that. Allen Iverson DESERVES to be on the list. He carried a scrub team of nobody's to the finals.

Iverson was a low percentage chucker who played zero defense. He has 3 of the 4 worst shooting seasons of all time for players who averaged 30+ points in a season.

Making the NBA finals from the East back then wasn't much of an accomplishment at all... that he made it only once in this era of poor teams is actually shameful for someone on this list.
 
Size, speed, athleticism, skill. Never missed serious time or had a serious injury.
The only players in this top 10 list that wouldn't get abused by LeBron physically if they had to match up with him an entire game are Shaq and Kareem.

LOL you forget Wilt is in that list? You know, the guy that even at 36 and 310+lbs was playing 43 minutes a game. Or who the 12 years younger Kareem deecribed as being incredibly physically dominant.

Wilt more than held his own in his 40's with NBA and elite NCAA players in summer pickup games (including a famous game against Magic Johnson, where at 45 an irritated Wilt proceeded to block every shot Magic took after Johnson called goaltensing on Wilt)

Wilt easily moved people like Bob Lanier, who played between 280-290, around with ease. You can see clips of tree trunked leg Wes Unseld getting knocked back and off balance by a little subtle shove from Wilt, 270lbs Walt Bellamy getting shoved back and sliding his sneakers across the floor trying to maintain position after Wilt shoved him out. Artis Gilmore, a guy famed for his strength, after the all-star game against Wilt called him incredibly strong.

Look, many things can and have been said about Wilt in the negative. The one thing even his detractors recognize though is that, on a purely individual, purely physically gifted level, Wilt was a monster. A combination of size, length, speed, strength, and stamina that hasnt been seen again.
 
LOL you forget Wilt is in that list? You know, the guy that even at 36 and 310+lbs was playing 43 minutes a game. Or who the 12 years younger Kareem deecribed as being incredibly physically dominant.

Wilt more than held his own in his 40's with NBA and elite NCAA players in summer pickup games (including a famous game against Magic Johnson, where at 45 an irritated Wilt proceeded to block every shot Magic took after Johnson called goaltensing on Wilt)

Wilt easily moved people like Bob Lanier, who played between 280-290, around with ease. You can see clips of tree trunked leg Wes Unseld getting knocked back and off balance by a little subtle shove from Wilt, 270lbs Walt Bellamy getting shoved back and sliding his sneakers across the floor trying to maintain position after Wilt shoved him out. Artis Gilmore, a guy famed for his strength, after the all-star game against Wilt called him incredibly strong.

Look, many things can and have been said about Wilt in the negative. The one thing even his detractors recognize though is that, on a purely individual, purely physically gifted level, Wilt was a monster. A combination of size, length, speed, strength, and stamina that hasnt been seen again.

Well said. Like Charles Wilt was a true unicorn. Will never see another one like him.
 
Lists in general are really stupid.

NBA fans love them for some reason though.

I think the problem is that we use lists, rather than tiers

Too often, I say, "that player is a top 10 player", before I realize exactly how many top 10 players there are, according to me
 
I'm telling you the guy that gets the shaft is Niq.

Jordan and Scotty played together. Kobe and Shaq played together. Hell Dirk had Kidd the year he won. Celtics and Lakers had HoFers all over the fucking court.

Wilkins had 5 foot nothing Spud Webb.

I think Wilkins missed the original top 50 list, or am I wrong about that? Anyone who thinks Pippen was better than 'Nique needs to get their head examined.
 

Lkr

Member
LOL you forget Wilt is in that list? You know, the guy that even at 36 and 310+lbs was playing 43 minutes a game. Or who the 12 years younger Kareem deecribed as being incredibly physically dominant.

Wilt more than held his own in his 40's with NBA and elite NCAA players in summer pickup games (including a famous game against Magic Johnson, where at 45 an irritated Wilt proceeded to block every shot Magic took after Johnson called goaltensing on Wilt)

Wilt easily moved people like Bob Lanier, who played between 280-290, around with ease. You can see clips of tree trunked leg Wes Unseld getting knocked back and off balance by a little subtle shove from Wilt, 270lbs Walt Bellamy getting shoved back and sliding his sneakers across the floor trying to maintain position after Wilt shoved him out. Artis Gilmore, a guy famed for his strength, after the all-star game against Wilt called him incredibly strong.

Look, many things can and have been said about Wilt in the negative. The one thing even his detractors recognize though is that, on a purely individual, purely physically gifted level, Wilt was a monster. A combination of size, length, speed, strength, and stamina that hasnt been seen again.
The same Wilt that was Bill Russel's bitch? Like we are talking moreso than Chris Christie is to Trump.
Fwiw LeBron would average Wilt numbers in Wilt's era and would have won more rings
 
Imagine if Jordan had to see zones every night of his career?

Dude was licking his chops every night against those one on one matchups. GP was the only person to give him serious issues in those Finals matchups.
 

Temp_User

Member
Remember Game 1 of the 2014 NBA Finals when Lebron quit due to cramps because of a broken AC unit in the Spurs arena? Guess what? During Wilt's era, the NBA arenas have NO or barely functioning air conditioning at all.

I find it difficult to believe that he can surpass Wilt's stats or championships if he is getting cramps on every game.
 

LionPride

Banned
Remember Game 1 of the 2014 NBA Finals when Lebron quit due to cramps because of a broken AC unit in the Spurs arena? Guess what? During Wilt's era, the NBA arenas have NO air conditioning at all.

I find it difficult to believe that he can surpass Wilt's stats or championships if he is getting cramps on every game.
Motherfucker you do anything when you start cramping? Oh wait you can't because you almost can't move. I've tried finishing a rugby game after I started cramping up in my legs, NOPE.
 
Imagine if Jordan had to see zones every night of his career?

Dude was licking his chops every night against those one on one matchups. GP was the only person to give him serious issues in those Finals matchups.

*sigh* I was hoping we would get through this thread without this gem, but here it is.

What do you base this idiotic notion on? I'm just curious. The NBA paint is more wide open today than it was when Doug Moe's Nuggets were putting up 140 a night. You can't (by rule) park your big guy in the lane anymore. If you even have a capable big guy in the first place.

Second of all, star players didn't have one on one matchups. Go look at Barkley play and put him in the game today. Every time Charles got the ball near post, he was double teamed immediately and he had to get rid of the ball. And getting to the contested paint was a challenge in itself, because at the end of the 80's until the mid 90's or so you could basically maul the guy handling the ball. For example, Gary Payton handchecked so well that he forced you to go one way. Handchecking was the biggest reason why defenders could always get a hand in a guys face when they were shooting. Now defenders are left out to die in the perimeter. That's why Curry can walk through the lane and throw one handers like he's playing in the park. That fancy dribbling would end real fast if someone would allow the defender to put two hands on him.

And yes, GP gave Jordan issues, after the Bulls had a 3-0 lead. Put prime Jordan in that game (the 87-93 version) and he'd murder Payton as well. Knicks and the Pistons did a great job guarding MJ in his prime, but eventually he would get hot and score anyway.

I can give you an example of a player who would be much more valuable today than he was during his career. Steve Kerr was a journeyman benchwarmer before playing with the Bulls, but when you look at his shooting percentage one would think he wasn't utilized correctly. That's because Kerr couldn't handle the ball at all against pressure and he couldn't guard a chair. And when you can handcheck a player, it's really hard to get shots off with limited offensive skills. So Kerr relied on Jordan and Pippen getting him open. And even if he hit a couple, he would get smoked in the other end of the court. When the Bulls won 72, they lost in Denver that season. Big part of that was an early, nearly 30 point deficit, which was mostly due to the fact that for some reason Jackson put Kerr on Abdul-Rauf. That's the most onesided offensive player vs. defensive player 5 minute periods I have ever seen.
 

googly

Member
Motherfucker you do anything when you start cramping? Oh wait you can't because you almost can't move. I've tried finishing a rugby game after I started cramping up in my legs, NOPE.

Dude are you serious? The whole point is that he's getting cramps to begin with. I've never heard of any other super star players getting cramps repeatedly in different years of their career.
 

jman2050

Member
Can someone explain to an outsider why LeBron is revered this much?

He's already had one of the greatest careers in NBA history despite having at least 3-5 more seasons of top level play to go. His career accomplishments are massive for his age and all metrics, traditional or advanced or otherwise, have him as a dominant player that is clearly a cut above all of his contemporaries. He literally is the Jordan of our time, though I and others will still argue that he still isn't nearly as accomplished as Jordan yet.

Of the current younger players playing now, the only person I see even approaching Lebron's stratosphere is Kevin Durant. Which makes it insulting that he is ranked so low on this list.
 

Marz

Member
Have you guys ever actually watched some Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem footage? Slow, plodding centers like that wouldn't even be on the court in today's NBA that's why lists like this are stupid.

Put LeBron, Jordan, or Shaq in their era they would average 50 a game, put Wilt and Kareem in today's league and they wouldn't even see the court they literally barely get off the ground for rebounds...shit simply wouldn't cut it.
 

jman2050

Member
Yeah, I just based it players that played in a non zone league (and then in a zone league) lamenting it out of their own mouths, as well as Jordan himself complaining about before and after becoming a Wizard.

Idiotic, I know.

https://youtu.be/YM_eCnTNt1Q

Yeah I don't think people understand exactly how good teams have collectively gotten at designing defense and just how much work it takes, on average, to get a decent look at the rim on any given possession when the defense is executed properly.

This also probably plays into how valuable the 3 point shot has become. If you expend so much effort and, more importantly, so much time into creating good shots then you need to be able to maximize the value of those shots.
 
Yeah I don't think people understand exactly how good teams have collectively gotten at designing defense and just how much work it takes, on average, to get a decent look at the rim on any given possession when the defense is executed properly.

This also probably plays into how valuable the 3 point shot has become. If you expend so much effort and, more importantly, so much time into creating good shots then you need to be able to maximize the value of those shots.

Yeah. When the zone was officially illegal, teams would still try to flirt with breaking the rules to get away with defensive schemes. Now that there is actual zoning allowed in the league, teams with athletic players that can move their feet are punishing ISO players. I remember Paul Pierce basically standing in the key during that Laker series in 08, daring a drive for a charge. That's why you have guards like Wall, Schroeder and Westbrook who consistently try and beat defenses down the court with foot speed.

Once most competent Defenses get into their half court set, it's pretty much a wrap on any real penetration.
 

bionic77

Member
Have you guys ever actually watched some Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem footage? Slow, plodding centers like that wouldn't even be on the court in today's NBA that's why lists like this are stupid.

Put LeBron, Jordan, or Shaq in their era they would average 50 a game, put Wilt and Kareem in today's league and they wouldn't even see the court they literally barely get off the ground for rebounds...shit simply wouldn't cut it.
This post is horrible.

Kareem was slow when he was 36 and winning his 6th title. Dude was unstoppable in his prime.

I do agree Wilt played in a different time so it is harder to judge him but saying that about Kareem is insanely ignorant.
 
I think Wilkins missed the original top 50 list, or am I wrong about that? Anyone who thinks Pippen was better than 'Nique needs to get their head examined.

I don't know if it was CBS but he didn't make the original top 50 when it first started being published. I know the reason he gets rated low is because of his lack of playoff success.

That year he got traded when Atlanta was a 1-seed still burns me.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I don't know if it was CBS but he didn't make the original top 50 when it first started being published. I know the reason he gets rated low is because of his lack of playoff success.

That year he got traded when Atlanta was a 1-seed still burns me.

He lost in the playoffs to other teams that had multiple superstars. Like he lost to the Celtics who have 2 players on this list.

That's why I'm always miffed it's held against him. Like OMG Wilkins couldn't single handedly best Parrish, McHale, and Bird all on the same team
 

mjp2417

Banned
Have you guys ever actually watched some Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem footage? Slow, plodding centers like that wouldn't even be on the court in today's NBA that's why lists like this are stupid.

Put LeBron, Jordan, or Shaq in their era they would average 50 a game, put Wilt and Kareem in today's league and they wouldn't even see the court they literally barely get off the ground for rebounds...shit simply wouldn't cut it.

Wilt is basically Shaq 30 years before his time. Both could play in any era because they are simply more physically dominant than just about any other human being on the planet. Kareem would basically be Tim Duncan + the most unstoppable go to move in league history. Every player on that top 10 would be superstars in any era.
 

jmizzal

Member
Oscar Robinson not in the top 10 is a fucking travesty.

Holy shit, that is a terrible list. Curry is at 19, not sure he should really be in the top 50. I'd definitely put Leonard above him. Wade, Gary Payton , Kidd, Stockton and Pippin too.

How would you put Leonard over Curry? He has one finals MVP and a title thats it, Curry has countless NBA records NBA MVP, championship, plus career avg 22.6, while Leonard is 15.8 and Curry avg is above him in everything else besides rebounds and FG% and he is not far behind in those.

LeBum number 2??

Dwight , Durcant, Curry, Chris Paul, Wade, Pierce, Ray Allen over KAWAII??

Career wise yes they are over Lenoard you guys are basing it on right now, Kawaii has two god offinsive years under his belt
 

LionPride

Banned
Dude are you serious? The whole point is that he's getting cramps to begin with. I've never heard of any other super star players getting cramps repeatedly in different years of their career.
Cramps happen yung

And I believe it was only one time. Dude has never really left a game injured
 

Fjordson

Member
Man basketball debate online is always a dumpster fire lol. Some of the takes in here smh.

Not a bad list, though. The two best players today (Lebron and Curry) are properly placed, so that's good to see.
 
How would you put Leonard over Curry? He has one finals MVP and a title thats it, Curry has countless NBA records NBA MVP, championship, plus career avg 22.6, while Leonard is 15.8 and Curry avg is above him in everything else besides rebounds and FG% and he is not far behind in those.



Career wise yes they are over Lenoard you guys are basing it on right now, Kawaii has two god offinsive years under his belt

Doesn't Curry have only 3 good offensive years under his belt?

Personally, I just see Leonard as a better basketball player than Curry.
 
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