not really most who voted leave will never had heard of him
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
David Cameron's Brexit Poison Chalice and Potential Way to Stop Brexit
- Thread starter Bleepey
- Start date
- Status
not really most who voted leave will never had heard of him
fabricated backlash
Member
They just refer to him as the unelected bad guy from Brussels.
GamingKaiju
Member
This is my hope too. *if there is another ref Im going tell everyone vote remain as what has happened in a few days is only a small glimmer of what will come if we vote leave and it'll only get worse.
I'm never voting Tory again Im now officially pro-EU and will only vote for party's that are pro EU and plan to work with the EU if we stay that this.
I've never being so disgusted to British
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
Are we still continuing with the fiction that Leave voters actually understood they'd face an economic crisis as a result of their vote?
He's a complete cunt who will be remembered for gambling the country's future because of some moany old backbenchers, but what he's doing now is absolutely the right move.
This delay gives the nation a peak into the reality of a Brexit, without all the Leave lies and propaganda. It will be a humiliating 3 months for him, but it is the least he can do for the country.
GamingKaiju
Member
Gotta say even though I'm fuming with Cameron for what he has done. I hope his stalling tactic will work out in the long run
Patrick Bateman
Member
I somehow find it hilarious that many UK-leaders made it look like the public opinion would be that like 80% of the Brits are pro Brexit.
With this poll they have the worst result they could imagine.
A strong or weak con: We stay in the EU, it's your decision.
A strong pro: We leave EU, the people demand it!!
Now it's a weak pro Brexit. People and politicians realised what great consequences it would have. EU says FU and gets rid of this constantly nagging neighbour with benefits..
With this poll they have the worst result they could imagine.
A strong or weak con: We stay in the EU, it's your decision.
A strong pro: We leave EU, the people demand it!!
Now it's a weak pro Brexit. People and politicians realised what great consequences it would have. EU says FU and gets rid of this constantly nagging neighbour with benefits..
fabricated backlash
Member
Oh please this git isn't worth your sympathy. He isn't doing anything for the UK. This is his last ditch effort to deflect some of the blame off his legacy.
He is again gambling with the future of the UK by delaying the necessary actions needed to get the country back on track.
The UK will be fine out or in the EU, it may take longer to heal, but the EU is interested to trade with the UK even as an ex member of the Union.
Cameron weaseling out of his duty as an elected official is just the worst and a true testament to his vile character.
Camp Freddie
Member
Our only hope is that the utterly fucked economy and sterling will bite people over summer, so that public opinion will change - such that leaving the EU is no longer the "will of the people".
When all the talk is a Norway deal that keeps the freedom of movement and EU rules enforced by a foreign court - those leave voters are going to feel mislead. Then they'll get hurt by the terrible exchange rates that are hitting during peak holiday season, affecting a large number of people who are otherwise not invested in the markets.
Leave won by 2%. I doubt they'd win if a new referendum was called tomorrow, let alone in 2-3 months time.
With luck, activating Article 50 in September will feel more like insanely trying to carry out a promise made while drunk, rather than following the 'will of the people'.
Daffy Duck
Member
It's almost like he's trying to play the long game here, and will be hoping he goes down in the history books as the man who foiled brexit by falling on his own sword.
Don't get me wrong, I voted remain, so I am gutted at what has happened, but the fact is we were told what ever the result the government would follow the will of the people, if that doesn't happen then there will also be untold damage for the government in that regard, so we really are a damned if we do, damned if we don't scenario now.
Cameron says we need a pro brexit leader in place to take us out, but those who campaigned leave now have cold feet and wont step up, so God alone knows what kind of government we are actually going to end up with now.
That's really not how it should work though, have a vote to leave, leave for a while for the consensus to change, then say oh look now the people don't want to leave so we wont, that's just a bollocks idea and sets up another set of issues with our voting system.
Do we get to do that each time at an election, have a couple of months of shit then go, actually we got it wrong, all change.
Patrick Bateman
Member
Wouldn't it be another option to set up an early general election?
Like with candidates who either stood really for or against the Brexit?
The people decide and the next PM does what he always advertised?
And if Britain elects a PM who was against Brexit, he "simply" rows back, says what a stupid idea it was and that there wasn't such a great margin to make the Brexit seem reasonable with all it's dire consequences.
Like with candidates who either stood really for or against the Brexit?
The people decide and the next PM does what he always advertised?
And if Britain elects a PM who was against Brexit, he "simply" rows back, says what a stupid idea it was and that there wasn't such a great margin to make the Brexit seem reasonable with all it's dire consequences.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Are you saying that 17 million voting leave means the majority of the population wants to, and are happy with the events that have transpired over the past 4 days?
No thank you. I'm just going to get more involved in politics and align myself with parties that will either keep us in the EU if Art 50 still hasn't been invoked or get us as close to the EU as possible.
UKIP would still exist if Remain had won. Please pay more attention to politics.
We are not a direct democracy. Never have been, never will be. Every year that passes makes the Remain vote stronger and the Leave vote weaker due to demographic changes.
That's why people like myself are so upset, and so angry over this farce - when you lose an election, you get back on your feet and fight again in 5 years time. It's part of how our democracy works. But this insanity is different to that - there's no going back, we irrevocably strip the rights that my generation were born with away from them to pander to ignorant racists. There is no going back on this - hence why I intend to fight it in every possible way possible through our system.
After all, if Remain won I don't think anyone would expect Nigel Farage to be dissapearing and UKIP shutting up shop. After all, he himself said that if the result were 52 remain 48 leave, there should be a second referendum shortly afterwards.
Not all leave voters are racists.
All racists are leave voters.
The leave campaign engaged in direct racist pandering to win.
Since winning, we've seen a surge in racist attacks and abuse across the country.
Any of this untrue? No good, then let's move on and we can stop with the fake "stop calling us all racists" crap. Whether or not you are a racist, the leave campaign used racists and racist imagery to win. You have to live with the fact you stand shoulder to shoulder with racists.
Paracelsus
Member
If it was (and it was) such a crucial call to make maybe they should've got their asses to the voting booth. People who didn't vote without a valid reason are way worse than those who voted while not being fully aware of the consequences.
Daffy Duck
Member
The problem for me is, the increase in open racism is because they think that the 52% (17 million other people who voted) agree with them, which is totally incorrect.
I don't stand shoulder to shoulder with racists actually, I couldn't give a real rats ass at the end of the day what the outcome was. If they were out on the street rallying leavers under a call of anti immigration I wouldn't be there so enough with that shit. People voted for different reasons, unfortunately a lot had terrible motivations but that doesn't allow you to making sweeping generalisations.
Oh, I agree. But this is the problem when you tap into things like racism to win even if you yourself don't believe in that - it unleashes something that's very hard to put back in the tin. Which is why you should always look at the people you are standing with, and if they aren't the people you think you are, then walk away. Don't shrug your shoulders and say "not me".
I don't think you understand how voting works, or the consequences of voting. You don't get to disown your won side because you dislike it.
It's exactly the same line of crap moderate republicans were giving gay people for years. You cannot ignore who you stand with. You make the bed, you lie in it.
Daffy Duck
Member
Agreed, they were discussing it on ITV news last night, and they really have opened Pandora's box, and they even went as far to ask the question if the language used in the campaign sparked this off, which it probably did.
Even if you are for Brexit, a delay to a50 is in your best interest. We are in no position to begin negotiations right now and 24 months is a minuscule amount of time to not only negotiate with our European partners, but also unravel/rewrite thousands of laws, and get trade agreements in place with major partners like the US and China.
Stating immigration was the prevailing concern of Leave voters isn't a generalisation, it's a fact.
Spout it all mate you're still wrong.
I'd love to see where I denied that in the first place.
But only the retards that voted out would be in uproar. The whole point we vote people in power is so we don't have to make tough decisions like this, it should never have been took to public vote.
I've been suffering this moderate "I don't agree with then, but I vote the same way" my entire life as a gay man. It's exactly the same bullshit, and whether you think I'm right or wrong people in this country are frightful and suffering because of the campaign leave ran.
The leave campaign unleashed this, and everyone who voted for it bears part of the blame.
GeordieMark
Member
Whilst technically true, this is also a load of typical bullshit that is why so many of the British people are alienated. Its a really silly, immature way of looking at a hugely complex issue.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Tell that to them, not me.
Kadayi
Banned
Please, attack dog commentary, labelling and 'by association' implication and dumping down have zero place in serious debate.
So this is Cameron trying to absolve himself from responsibility of actually proceeding with the exit and letting his successor decide. I don't see how this is genius political maneuvering. He got himself in this position in the first place. Not like this was all part of the plan all along. I can imagine it not being easy trying to negotiate deals from a position you don't believe in.
Serious debate vanished well before Nigel Farage used a nazi propoganda poster to scare people "the brown people are coming" and a far right terrorist assassinated an MP in broad daylight.
It's excellent in terms of fucking over Boris Johnson. However, Cameron and BJ along with his lapdog Gove just using this country for their own little games of power is fucked up. They've shagged the country together and now we all have to deal with this shit.
So you blame the average person for the campaigns run by parties they're not even involved in, you blame others for the actions of one murderous nutter? You've no leg to stand on here.
The leg he's standing on seems to be common sense and how issues like this have played out historically. Looks like pretty good legs to me.
Your argument to it basically boils down to "No. Nope. Nah. Not true".
Pretty sure I just asked you for something and here you ignoring that and trying to make digs. Pathetic.
What good intentions? He gambled the future of his country to be re-elected. He's a moron and he should get fucked.
Kadayi
Banned
You seem to mistake the arena here.
Most depressing anecdote of the day.
One of my aunties was a strong Leave campaigner. It was all about "taking back control" and "stopping Brussels telling us what to do". Yesterday, she posted a delightful image of a golliwog and the header "Now we've left the the EU can I come back?".
So don't tell me there's no racism in the Leave campaign, or that it hasn't emboldened stuff that should never have been surfaced.
One of my aunties was a strong Leave campaigner. It was all about "taking back control" and "stopping Brussels telling us what to do". Yesterday, she posted a delightful image of a golliwog and the header "Now we've left the the EU can I come back?".
So don't tell me there's no racism in the Leave campaign, or that it hasn't emboldened stuff that should never have been surfaced.
GeordieMark
Member
No, his argument is "you are with us or against us" and its really not that simple. I understand it, and the logic behind it, but it ignores a lot of factors and oversimplifies the issue. The leave voters were not exclusively white. Brushing off the leave voters as racists is part of the issue that brought us to the sorry state we find ourselves in right now.
Did anyone ever deny that there was racism in the leave campaign? Personally, I think that is undeniable, but you can't lump all leave voters in together. There were more factors than just racism in why people voted the way they did. For a lot of older people, it was about democracy, and many felt they were misled when we joined the EU in the first place. Plus, our politicians have been blaming everything on the EU for years, so it didn't have a great standing.
I'm an angry and pretty sad remain voter too, and god knows there are some horrible, horrible racist idiots crawling out of the woodwork, but I think we would have seen similar whatever had happened with the vote. They've always been here.
fabricated backlash
Member
Just googled golliwog... all right then.
Kadayi
Banned
Indeed. Whatever people's reasons for voting leave, informed or otherwise are utterly moot really versus the result. Leave won. Many of us might not like it, but many of us also don't like the idea of trying to subvert the democratic process and principles, simply because we don't like it, and aren't particular enamoured by those who seem to advocate it because apparently in their eyes the ends justify the means. That lack of self-awareness of the bigger picture in that regard when it comes to precedent is quite disturbing tbh.
That's a whole lotta if.
The no confidence vote might well come and he might well have to stand again, but he could well win again.
If you are dealing with UK media or politicians, it's always the fault of others. And THAT's the reason people voted leave. Because the EU has been used as a scapegoat by your incompetent government and media for far too long.
Let me put it another way.
As a gay man, the Conservative party has (pre-David Cameron) consistently denied me basic rights and conducted a campaign of open homophobia in government. It enacted Section 28, which really fucked up my teenage years. It denied us help during the AIDs crisis. It denied us basic civil partnerships even. It refused to lower the age of consent. Iin general it made gay people's lives utterly horrific for a long, long time.
Do I think that everyone who voted conservative during that time period was homophobic and hated gay people? Absolutely not. In fact I know several of them, my parents included who I love dearly and who love me.
Do I hold them just as responsible for the actions of the government they voted in, and the misery they inflicted on people? Absolutely!
Intent is immaterial when faced with the real consequences of actions. Regardless of whether you *meant* for something to happen, or even *like* something happening, you have a part to play and when it came down to crunch time you stood and voted with the wrong side. Life isn't simple, you don't get to compartmentalise your intent from your actions, and just like conservative voters in the 80s and 90s hurting gay people like me and millions others through government sponsored homophobia whether they liked it or not. Leave voters are backing a campaign that has caused a rise in racism and intolerance that is both sickening and embarrassing and is directly making peoples lives worse right now.
As a gay man, the Conservative party has (pre-David Cameron) consistently denied me basic rights and conducted a campaign of open homophobia in government. It enacted Section 28, which really fucked up my teenage years. It denied us help during the AIDs crisis. It denied us basic civil partnerships even. It refused to lower the age of consent. Iin general it made gay people's lives utterly horrific for a long, long time.
Do I think that everyone who voted conservative during that time period was homophobic and hated gay people? Absolutely not. In fact I know several of them, my parents included who I love dearly and who love me.
Do I hold them just as responsible for the actions of the government they voted in, and the misery they inflicted on people? Absolutely!
Intent is immaterial when faced with the real consequences of actions. Regardless of whether you *meant* for something to happen, or even *like* something happening, you have a part to play and when it came down to crunch time you stood and voted with the wrong side. Life isn't simple, you don't get to compartmentalise your intent from your actions, and just like conservative voters in the 80s and 90s hurting gay people like me and millions others through government sponsored homophobia whether they liked it or not. Leave voters are backing a campaign that has caused a rise in racism and intolerance that is both sickening and embarrassing and is directly making peoples lives worse right now.
Increasingly this is feeling like Britain is trying to get a better deal with the Eu like it's negotiating with its cable TV provider.
"I want to leave your service, it's too expensive and my mind is made up!"
A few days later someone phones up from the cable company and offers them a 50% reduction to stay.
They then remain exactly where they are with a better deal.
"I want to leave your service, it's too expensive and my mind is made up!"
A few days later someone phones up from the cable company and offers them a 50% reduction to stay.
They then remain exactly where they are with a better deal.
Except we've done this for so long and had politicians blame the EU to hide their own failings that they're probably just done with us at this point. I'd be shocked if a better deal suddenly appears since we already had special status.
- Status