b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
Yeah, but this ain't Wonder Woman.
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DC Extended Universe |OT3| A League of Academy Award Winners
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Yeah, but this ain't Wonder Woman.
VenomousCoffee
Member
Whats so fucked up about 300?
I like this movie man
The very short version: The movie creates a parallel between the soldiers' bodies and the political body of the state
The defining characteristic of fascism is that it says that a specific social group is politically beautiful (blonde Germans, etc.) and therefore superior to other social groups
The movie equates the aesthetically beautiful actors' bodies with their being politically beautiful
The traitor is aesthetically ugly/deformed and so excluded from membership in the political body
Also, the movie glorifies a bunch of slaveowners who thought war was awesome (but so do a lot of American movies)
So, like nearly every action movie ever made. Okay.
Let's not point fingers at Snyder for tropes that have existed for years before him and will continue for years after him.
VenomousCoffee
Member
Nope. Yes, most action movies glorify violence. No, most action movies do not highlight these elements of fascism in such a specific way.
WTF!!
First time I read this and I never made this connection, nah I dont buy it at all.
thehypocrite
Member
Was it different from the novel in regards to those aspects?
These tropes that existed in past movies don't excuse them now. We learn and move forward.
To that point, I don't think Snyder ever gave it much thought outside of "wow Frank Miller material, gonna make a kickass movie with it."
BronsonLee
Member
Hey guys I got a Sarahah question asking me to pop in here so here I a-
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This is also what I think. Snyder doesn't realize that a lot of his work might be borderline fascist or promote libertarianism.
He seems like a nice guy, which is why I don't think he believes in those things. Maybe he is just artistically drawn to them.
I don't get it either. Discarding deformed babies was actually a Spartan tradition.Whats so fucked up about 300?
I like this movie man
broncobuster
Banned
Sorta related, some of the concept art for BvS leaned harder on the Knightmare scene and evil Superman evoking Nazi imagery. I guess WB asked them to tone all that down. Like how Captain America TFA toned down the whole Nazi's during World War 2 thing to focus on Hydra.
Nah. It's really only 300.
Nah. It's really only 300.
Leo_Sagittarius
Member
Man, I thought it was all about guys fighting in stylish ways back in the day...my 22 yo self is disappointed right now.....
Hmm..Would you guys say Aquaman falls under the same tropes?
Superior underwater beings disdaining surface dwellers, Arthur being frowned upon for being "mixed" dispite having blonde hair which, according to the lore, signifies he has "royal blood" or something along those lines
I'm not excusing it. I just don't find it necessary to point at Snyder specifically as if he's alone in adapting or creating inherently fascist material.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
Poodlestrike
Banned
"Beauty=goodness" and the weird unfortunate implications of making the heroes unquestioning agents of the State are pretty far from unique to 300. The real sticking point is the way it sets up the Persians, imo.
But that's really more on the source material than on Snyder.
But that's really more on the source material than on Snyder.
Snyder isn't blind to the problems with Frank's imagery in 300. He's definitely aware of it which is why he goes all the way. It's part of his schtick of playing around with expectations and making you (the viewer) second guess yourself. He talks about it in some interviews of how much he wants to play with the audience's expectations.
Yeah, Leonidas is badass. His whole squad looks badass. They may also be a bunch of psychos and the narrator may be selling you a warped story to further an agenda. 300 isn't a typical action movie which is why I can see why someone would be reviled by it. Calling it this generation's Birth of a Nation is a bit much though lol. 300 didn't have THAT kind of impact.
Anyways, this kind of stuff is all over Snyder's films and it comes full circle with Sucker Punch. I think that's why I'm drawn to them.
Yeah, Leonidas is badass. His whole squad looks badass. They may also be a bunch of psychos and the narrator may be selling you a warped story to further an agenda. 300 isn't a typical action movie which is why I can see why someone would be reviled by it. Calling it this generation's Birth of a Nation is a bit much though lol. 300 didn't have THAT kind of impact.
Anyways, this kind of stuff is all over Snyder's films and it comes full circle with Sucker Punch. I think that's why I'm drawn to them.
Breh you ain't even seen a trailer
Deep blue sea creatures are always welcome in my book. You'll be fine. Wan won't do horror in this movie.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Two or more outlets described the footage as Star Wars under water, a guy I know said it also looked like it targets a younger audience... Maybe it was a bit too Disney esque for his likings.
MHWilliams
Member
The jump scares in Furious 7 messed me up.
To be more straightforward, I doubt it's going to feel like a horror film and Wan in interviews to this point hasn't brought up anything in that area, as far as I know.
VenomousCoffee
Member
Shit. Can't believe I forgot to mention the Foreign Horde.
I could've sworn he said he wanted it to be scary with the trench stuff... Maybe I'm getting stories mixed up?
It's not like I'm not gonna see it... I'm all in. Even Man-Bat in BvS got me good, haha.
King Nereus won't be an antagonist in this movie.
Wait, you mean Dolph WON'T be a villain? Does not compute.
Leo_Sagittarius
Member
broncobuster
Banned
That Romancing the Stone is what James Wan has cited, I'm expecting something along the lines of Arthur and Mera stuck together on an adventure where they bond. Him being a wild man and her being prim.
I don't do well with horror. That said as much as I don't want Aquaman to be a horror movie I kinda want it to be one. Lots of underwater scenes could screw with you regardless. Wouldn't be to hard for things to go the horror route even unintended. All it takes is one really well done creature that looks like it should be underwater.
That was before they came up with the crackerjack strategy of "Do what Marvel does only ten years later."
2 spooky 4 me
You realize I'm like joking around, right (except for jump scares, fuck those)? I'm bored.
I have been saying this shit for ages. People bitching about BVS and MOS's tone has taught DC and marvel to be less ambitious and play it safe. Suicide Squad's tone was neutered, Flash's director would rather his initial vision wasn't compromised, films have to look for an excuse to fight in abandoned places and now Aquaman. I guess we have BVS to thank for CW even if MoS and collateral damage gave us, AoU
This is why 300 is an interesting film to me, despite its flaws. The narrative set-up is that it's a story being recounted by a guy who was there. And like any good story-teller in antiquity, he embellishes - a lot. Unlike most other sword & sandals historical epics, which at least put up some pretense of recreating history, 300 pretty much tells you right from the get-go that you're hearing one guy's recounting of the events, and he's pretty obviously an unreliable narrator.
But in the end of the film it's also revealed why he's embellishing so much, because he needs to convince the powers that be to send all of Sparta's forces to try and counter the Persian army. As the tweet said, it was a deliberate piece of in-universe pro-Spartan propaganda.
Theres an ironic subversion to nearly every film Snyder makes. He's talked at lengths many times about how he approaches every film he makes as a way to subvert what people want or expect. Sucker Punch is literally about this.
A lot of the misreading of his films as pseudo fascist wank are literally people missing the forest for the trees. As a filmmaker he is closer to 80s Verhoeven than anyone else really, and none of his films should be seen from a surface level. That's how you get dumb fuck articles calling BvS the "trump of movies" by people who shouldn't be allowed near a mouse and keyboard, when the film itself is literally subverting Miller's TDKR rather than just straight adapting it.
A lot of the misreading of his films as pseudo fascist wank are literally people missing the forest for the trees. As a filmmaker he is closer to 80s Verhoeven than anyone else really, and none of his films should be seen from a surface level. That's how you get dumb fuck articles calling BvS the "trump of movies" by people who shouldn't be allowed near a mouse and keyboard, when the film itself is literally subverting Miller's TDKR rather than just straight adapting it.
In what ways do you feel he was subverting TDKR? Like I am genuinely curious. I never realised 300 was an in universe propaganda piece of an unreliable narrator but when you think of it as 300 Spartans who held a mighty Persian army, due to cunning, discipline and Spartan ideals they were able to talk shit to the Persians as their arrows blotted out the sun. Might have to give it another rewatch
Discotheque
Banned
I definitely got that Verhoeven vibe from bvs (I even mentioned it on this forum somewhere first time I saw it). But honestly stuff like 300 and watchmen seems played completely straight and without subtext. And what's worse is that the man doesn't seem particularly interested in discussing the greater meaning behind his movies either. Or whether or not they have any.
I can see the case being made for sucker punch, bvs, dawn of the dead and some of the Kent stuff in man of steel tho.
broncobuster
Banned
Sucker Punch is a weird one. I really don't like the movie for various reasons, but yeah, even on the surface level the intent was clear. It was odd to see so much criticism kinda misplaced.
And Watchmen, I think the issue there is Snyder making things look too cool. Like, on the making of features he talks about how the ultra violence is suppose to be uncomfortable and you shouldn't enjoy it. Then it clashes with fights that are too well choreographed and stylish. A History of Violence does something similar but the action in that movie is all messy and sloppy. One scene in Watchmen that captured it well is Doctor Manhattan exploding some goons in a nightclub, with the viscera and all the mess on the ceiling and the people sitting around them. At the same time, I believe Snyder wanted to draw from then modern action movies for Watchmen, so you had Matrix style fighting. I don't know if that was the best decision.
And Watchmen, I think the issue there is Snyder making things look too cool. Like, on the making of features he talks about how the ultra violence is suppose to be uncomfortable and you shouldn't enjoy it. Then it clashes with fights that are too well choreographed and stylish. A History of Violence does something similar but the action in that movie is all messy and sloppy. One scene in Watchmen that captured it well is Doctor Manhattan exploding some goons in a nightclub, with the viscera and all the mess on the ceiling and the people sitting around them. At the same time, I believe Snyder wanted to draw from then modern action movies for Watchmen, so you had Matrix style fighting. I don't know if that was the best decision.
When your theme and sense of style clash, lol.