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Destiny 2 officially announced (with a logo only) [Up: Cayde-6 Toy Pre-Order Bonus]
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
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NeoGAF Members Complaints About Stupid Things XXXVI
I haven't been saying levels shouldn't be a factor at all. I don't see how people can feel that the way Destiny does gear is the only way that it can be done. If anything, the levels in Destiny are lying half of the time. The level disparity between you and enemies quickly loses effectiveness. You can be 10x ala higher level than a drag, and it will still hit you with decent damage.
molnizzle
Member
Having different roles doesn't remove the gear check though, it just changes the numbers you're looking at. If you need to fill a slot for a glass cannon role in your raid you're gonna be looking at people's raw damage numbers. No matter what you'll be looking at a number, it's unavoidable. Light level just standardizes that number for all roles. It's the exact same thing with a streamlined coat of paint.
I agree that requiring different roles for encounters and encouraging build diversity are great goals to have for game designers, but they really have nothing to do with gear progression.
I was one of the people that got caught in the hype of the first one, i think i completed the campaign and did some of the lategame for a bit and then quit completely, i expected something completely different.
Nonetheless if this one comes out on PC i think I might give it a try, I mainly play PC now so I kinda want a mindless grinding game
Nonetheless if this one comes out on PC i think I might give it a try, I mainly play PC now so I kinda want a mindless grinding game
cripterion
Member
The game can't be 30 fps and release on pc. Either one of those gotta be false then.
molnizzle
Member
That poster is obviously talking about the console versions.
I have not been arguing that numbers need to go away. I'm saying getting a chest piece that has a single number that you care about is boring. If you want its total stats to be rated by some number, fine. But that number should simply be rating its actual stats which are intended to be used in your build. Gear checks can be done well or poorly. I'm arguing that Destiny does it poorly. I'm never looking for gear that will let me play a different build. I'm just looking for gear to mbump up my light level.
Pattycakes
Banned
The preorder bonus was leaked, not shown off. Damn you are trying to reach hard.
Given the way the current Infusion system works, this seems irrational to me. You should very much care about the perks and stat bonuses on your chest armor. If the chest armor that's perfect for your build is 375 Light and a boring chestpiece drops at 395, then you just infuse the boring piece into the ideal piece. Light level seems like the lowest hurdle to overcome for any given equipment slot.
molnizzle
Member
Ah.
Having played many other games that are far more nebulous about it, Destiny's straightforward system was incredibly refreshing. At the end of the day it's literally the exact same thingthe appearance is just streamlined. What you're asking for is basically for the game to trick you into not recognizing that you're running a loot treadmill. Unfortunately there's no way to not see the treadmill once you're aware of how it works. The way Destiny simplifies the system so everyone can understand it is a good thing.
If the loot system was more obscure you'd just end up annoyed at not being able to discern how powerful another player is when recruiting for a raid (or when matchmaking). GearScore was introduced to WoW as a QoL improvement to make such comparisons easier. At the end of the day you're gonna need to be able to tell how good someone's gear is... the game might as well make it easy on you.
Tell me, how do I make a build in Destiny that has significantly more damage output while being extremely weak defensively? And I don't mean enabling some class abilities that let you enable crit damage for certain moments. I'm talking about like stuff in Diablo 3 where you can have a build utterly evicerate enemies but also get knocked down like a paper bag just as easily.
The claim that Destiny's gear is the same as what I want would mean that it enables this kind of character building. So where is it?
Do you people literally refuse to read the thread before shit-posting?
Arc Blade ? Its only use was to skip the first Phase of crota Raid
its a joke in pve compared to stormtrance. And voidwalker + two scatternades + energy drain gives you unlimited nades. Warlock was the meta from Alpha to Omega.Droopaloop
Banned
Apologies if this has been discussed, haven't kept up with the thread. Any guesses how they'll handle dlc? Dropping approximately 120 bucks on the first one was a bitter pill to swallow. Spent a lot of time in it, and it definitely was worth it in terms of dollar per hour. Just curious if they may go a different route since there's so many games going the microtransactions / free dlc route. Granted Destiny did both. I was a bit late to the Destiny party, and everything I had bought was on sale for 60 bucks on a disc later. I'm probably just a terrible consumer.
molnizzle
Member
Destiny currently doesn't support that type of build diversity. The point is that even if it did, some sort of "GearScore" would still exist, whether it was exposed to the player or not. In that example, you'd want the best possible gear in each slot that maximizes your damage output at the expense of defense. You'd still have a GearScore for that. Raid organizers would still be looking at your GearScore. There's no way around it.
You're asking for expanding the types of roles that are possible in the game, and that's cool... but it wouldn't get rid of the gear checks. As long as there's gear, there will be gear checks. As long as there's gear checks, there'll be a GearScore. Destiny just called it Light level and made it easy to understand.
Absolutely not it would seem. Destiny threads on GAF are a free pass for shit posting.
Criticisms of a game based on the fact that it's name ends in "2" and that people didn't like the vanilla which hasn't existed since 2015 are absolutely laughable.
Wesley-Sigma
Member
My roommates are so hyped for this lol.
I'll try it out since they are getting it -- but I'll be really busy this year.
I'll try it out since they are getting it -- but I'll be really busy this year.
Character builds are not as highly specialized as you would like them to be, that's fine. I would like greater room for customization and specialization as well.
None of this has anything to do with the Light System, though. If Bungie wanted to make room for greater specialization, they could still do it within the framework of Light Levels. When new gear drops, your evaluation of that gear still has to go beyond "Is this higher than the level of my currently slotted gear?"
Why do you keep putting forth an argument that I am not contending?
You said that Destiny does gear checks poorly. People disagree because Destiny makes gear checks very simple and secondary to the actual build of your character (which comes from subclass/spell/exotic/weapon/armor perk choices.) They're saying they would rather it be this way than Destiny be a game fueled by statics, which often comes off way more shallow than you'd think. Even the examples you've given are not indicative of the whole picture, as, say, Diablo 3 is rife with itemization issues and the lack of build diversity is a major complaint with the game.
molnizzle
Member
I'm putting forth the argument that you don't realize you're contending. ;-)
Your Diablo III glass cannon build still has an average ilvl. Diablo III is just much more generous with its gear checks, so you have a lot of leeway in choosing how you want to approach your encounters. MMO's (and MMO-lites like Destiny) that have static endgame encounter design are far more structured.
What I'm saying is that if Diablo III had the equivalent of a Destiny raid, the community would have an unofficial "light level" requirement to join pick up groups. It would be the exact same situation as Destiny in practice. Destiny just pulls back the veil and puts the data out there for everyone to understand.
Your argument seems to be that GearScore/Light does not really account for the diversity of builds that should be available. I don't think anyone really contends that either. A DPS warrior can have a great GearScore, but if he tries to tank he might be absolutely terrible because his tanking gear is garbage. Maybe he'll be able to sneak his way into some groups, and maybe those groups will see his poor performance and kick him out.
Light/GearScore is just a baseline though, and not the ultimate arbiter of a character's worth. It's up to the group leader to look deeper into specs and abilities to see if someone is worth adding to the group. In short, it allows you to eliminate people that are obviously unworthy to join your team, but if you can't eliminate them immediately then it is on you to look closer and evaluate their usefulness.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
I'm trying to see your point but how do you cover the aspect for it?
You say you want gear to have certain perks that give you pros and cons
Like if you want to be a so called Glass Canon, you will look out for Damage, Crit, Crit Bonus, and Strength as the multiplier in gear, while to get those most likely Health, Agility, Intelligence, Defense would go the opposite direction
Great but said gear will still have numbers on them and people will go to long lengths to extrapolate that data and come up with something to make it sound very numerical in value
So the Glass Canon can be +345 Atk, +160 Crit, +34% Crit Bonus Chance etc.
While -250 Def, - 42 Agility, etc
People would just formula it up and spit out a number
Then the meta comes into play with min/max and now your back to the same problem now dealing with 10-15 stats/perks thrown in rather than 1 number basing the whole thing to just tell people what you can accomplish
What you should be asking for is Bungie to go out of the basic perk/stay motif it has and rather shoehorn everybody into 3 different variations of the class yet use the same perk tier is to expand out and make said perk/stars matter more to open up class individuality
So you could be a 375 Warlock, who is more oriented in being the Damage type class, than say a 383 Warlock who heads towards Healer type
You could even have Warlocks go Tank route but pros and cons will come into play
A 400 capped Tank Warlock will not be Tanky enough to say a 400 Titan Tank, but Warlock would be more oriented into getting better uptake of CDs than say a Titan due to Space Magic
That kind of thing is a huge overhaul and that makes Destiny go from Shared Online World Shooter to literally MMO-Full not Lite any more
Go and look BF1 MP tests between base and Pro. FPS diference is substantial [although in both cases fps is unlocked].
My whole argument has been that equipment only exists in the game as a gear check. Gear designed to construct a build is often very minimal in effect. Some exotics have good build effects, but they are limited since you can have only one exotic per side of equipment. I think the Memory artifacts are a good example of equipment designed for creating a build. More gear should be like that in Destiny 2. If Destiny 2 has me instantly trashing gear because it's light level score is lower than what I currently have, then it's loot system has failed. The loot in the game needs to be diverse enough that lower light level gear should be worth inspecting to see if it can play into a certain build well. It is just utterly boring to go on several strikes in Destiny, get a huge payload of engrams, decrypt them all, and trash them all because the light level is lower. The minimal differences in perks and intellect/discipline/strength aren't enough to even worry about.
CertifiedFP
Member
So, concerning only the name being announced and not platforms or anything else...
100% Chance that Sony and Microsoft are Legit Shook by the Switch and Destiny 2 is for new hybrid consoles that are still under NDA. Even GabeN must be quivering in his boots right now at the threat posed by Nintendo, and is getting R&D going on a hybrid portable/desktop PC with its own special version of Steam of which the PC version of Destiny 2 will be exclusive to. It's the only explanation.
100% Chance that Sony and Microsoft are Legit Shook by the Switch and Destiny 2 is for new hybrid consoles that are still under NDA. Even GabeN must be quivering in his boots right now at the threat posed by Nintendo, and is getting R&D going on a hybrid portable/desktop PC with its own special version of Steam of which the PC version of Destiny 2 will be exclusive to. It's the only explanation.
Leh SarcMark, obviously
But really this does strike me as a really half-assed "Welp, secret's out." announcement that was way ahead of them actually being ready to announce it.
But really this does strike me as a really half-assed "Welp, secret's out." announcement that was way ahead of them actually being ready to announce it.
In other games, aren't you also instantly trashing gear that doesn't meet a certain baseline of quality or performance? How many Diablo 3 items do you really give a detailed inspection to? Once you have hit the level cap, I think it is unreasonable to expect every drop to be semi-viable based on possible character builds.
irrotational
Member
The criticism about the 2 isn't laughable...It's a very minor point sure, but no one ever really has more than one destiny...Sometimes they have to choose between two paths or destinies but they only actually experience one. The whole concept of a destiny is generally singular.
It also contradicts the premise of a 10 year plan and taking your character from one game to the next. This was a point that initially attracted me to the game.
Fwiw I've played Destiny for a few hundred hours and generally done everything except the lighthouse. I had an amazing time, and I also think they HAD to call it Destiny 2 for various reasons...I still think the name is a bit silly though!
Nightengale
Member
I've only played Vanilla Destiny.
There's never been a game like it since Robot Alchemic Drive where there's such a huge dissonance between my head and my heart/hand when playing it.
Head: "wow, this game is so poorly made. Performance, story, level layout are bad, MP is bad, only redeeming factors are raid/some strikes/etc,etc."
Heart/Hand: "wait, why I am playing this every day? wait, why am I enjoying myself so much even though I've running the same boring maps, shooting the same enemies 100x times?"
More than any game this gen, a "Destiny 2" that is actually good is a scary thing to imagine. As terrible as D1 was, it was really addictive. And that was without TTK.
There's never been a game like it since Robot Alchemic Drive where there's such a huge dissonance between my head and my heart/hand when playing it.
Head: "wow, this game is so poorly made. Performance, story, level layout are bad, MP is bad, only redeeming factors are raid/some strikes/etc,etc."
Heart/Hand: "wait, why I am playing this every day? wait, why am I enjoying myself so much even though I've running the same boring maps, shooting the same enemies 100x times?"
More than any game this gen, a "Destiny 2" that is actually good is a scary thing to imagine. As terrible as D1 was, it was really addictive. And that was without TTK.
Trickster
Member
Did you ever play mmo's or other games with persistent online worlds with other players? I've definitely gotten a sense that there's a lot of console players who haven't, and so the kind of social mmo-ish experience Destiny provides is something very new and different from the more traditional pvp multiplayer titles.
NippleViking
Banned
Hundreds of other AAA titles struggle to release a complete, let alone competent game under 3 years of dev time. And Destiny is extensively more ambitious than most by magnitudes. It doesn't matter if they've thrown 1000 people at it - directing a team that size requires miracle work. I feel I'm right to be skeptical and to want them to take as much time as they need.
GlamFM
Banned
This is simply not true.
Team size is of course relevant. Probably the most relevant thing.
I take your point about management of a team that size, but 3 years is a hell of a long time for a singe project.
Don't worry, it will be amazing.
See you starside.
There are legitimate critiques and concerns to express about Destiny's story and such, but the title "Destiny 2" really doesn't bother me. Maybe it's because it creates a clearer separation between this and the original Destiny (more so than a subtitle would). I think the fresher and newer the game, the better.
x Dredgen Yor x
Member
these images from August 2016 appear to be legit then... new sub classes...
original article: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...-leaks-alleged-destiny-2-concept-boards.aspx/
original article: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...-leaks-alleged-destiny-2-concept-boards.aspx/
Horribly misinformed post
these images from August 2016 appear to be legit then... new sub classes...
original article: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...-leaks-alleged-destiny-2-concept-boards.aspx/
I believe the story about these is that they were simply "idea" story boards from an artist and aren't confirmed to be part of the actual game.
Well, it's still pretty lineair, it just has a bunch of hub-areas that connect all the lineair parts together. And those hubs are pretty small because of the memory restrictions because of last-gen. So, except for enemies and other players, not much is going on. There isn't some fancy physics system involved. The graphics are nice because Bungie has a great art style, but they arent that complex (compared to games like BF or Doom). I see very little reasons why it could not hit 60 (altough my guess is that it will be 30 again as well).
Yup, drive by shit posts are nothing out of the ordinary on gaf.
x Dredgen Yor x
Member
And you still believe that? Given how close this marketing material is to this "idea" story boards, I wouldn't be surprised to see all this stuff in the first Destiny 2 trailer.
EDIT: Not my pic.
Give this guy some hand lotion.
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