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[Confused Cheeseburger]

Time will tell. When I really think about it, 4 planets the size of Old Russia isn't really that big of a deal to me in retrospect. In fact, it hemms in the expectations. this is not an mmo and even though people keep saying that (and even the people that say they get that but are still using the same assumptions), 4 large areas to explore with other areas becoming maps (I'll bet money old chicago and things like it are pvp maps) that's pretty sizable. I'm still taking Bungie's word on map size=reach, and I will do so until otherwise presented proof. This is a shooter first, Bungie themselves have said they're doubling down on their classic formula for the moment-to-moment gameplay. It's funny, I really do think the term "shared world shooter" (as ultra-buzz wordy as it is) remains pretty evocative of what Destiny is.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Thanks for proving my point?

*looking out into skybox* "This is all real geometry and you could go there, we could go there right now."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTfhrONAp-c&feature=youtu.be&t=2m1s

 

[Confused Cheeseburger]

You will certainly be able to go to Chicago and play Destiny there.

smh lol

 

[Coolbgdog12]

You will certainly be able to go to Chicago and play Destiny there.

What about Venus?

 

[Lakitu]

Has there been any gameplay released of Mars or Venus yet? (not including PVP)

 

[mid83]

As long as we get a good amount of content in the base release, and it sounds like 30-40 hours is a reasonable expectation, then I'll be perfectly happy with the base game. That's more content than you get out of most other games.

Additional DLC that adds additional quality content is fine too as long as it's a good amount of content for the price.

 

[Two Words]

*looking out into skybox* "This is all real geometry and you could go there, we could go there right now."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTfhrONAp-c&feature=youtu.be&t=2m1s

No, no, no. You don't understand? He was using the conditional tense of "can" not to express the condition being "if you want to" but rather "if we unlocked the invisible kill wall with our dev tools, which won't be the case in the actual game." Isn't that the obvious interpretation?

 

[crappybannedjunior999999]

I played the alpha and leveled up like crazy. Got bored of doing the same thing in the beta so I got to lvl 8 with around 200 defense and stopped. It is a poor-man's lootwhore game. I've played plenty of better lootwhore games and this didn't satisfy me like those.

The Moon & Venus multiplayer maps were not enticing. Crucible is just PvP/deathmatch garbage. You can't lump that in with explorable areas. The Tower is not going to be smaller than a medium part of Old Russia, if you are using that to add the amount of "exploration" than you crazy.

200 defense? Really? Are you sure? I never saw anything beyond the 160's in the beta.

 

[Symbiotx]

I put 20 hours into the beta with only one character. I'm pretty sure there will be enough content in the base game to warrant $60.

Same. Even after all the campaign stuff, most of my time will be spent in PvP anyways, so I'm not worried at all.

 

[Two Words]

200 defense? Really? Are you sure? I never saw anything beyond the 160's in the beta.

He said alpha. Alpha had higher numbers on armor and weapons. All the ya up to 107 damage on guns.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Taking things at face value is a crime now? God damn. If I tell someone " You can do X" in my game it is because YOU CAN. It is a decidedly literal statement, not some obfuscation with multiple interpretations.

He said "You can walk down that field". If you can't walk down that field, what exactly is wrong with calling out that lie? I'm not demanding this game let you walk down any field you see. I just do t want to be mislead.

So you would be fine if you could walk down specifically to that field, even if there were no enemies, no loot, no particular reason to do so. But as long as it was there and you could do it, that would be fine because that's what he stated right? This is the next logical progression to taking everything word for word literal during presentations.

The dev led us to believe it's an open world. So this whole time, I was expecting an open world shooter with RPG elements - exactly as they sold it as being during E3 2013. Having played the Beta, it's instead:
- RPG lite with simple point upgrades for armor/weapons.
- Playing the same map over and over, grinding, grinding, grinding.
- The same enemies in the same spots over and over, with hit point increases.

Now, if the universe [planets] and areas within were abundant, one could possibly look past the second and third items I listed above. All that said, I'll wait for it to go on sale. I'll play Skyrim in the meantime for my action RPG fix, and Halo for my FPS fix. Both of which are superior to what seems a half attempt at both in Destiny.

It is Open World and many Open World games have the players traverse the same areas for different missions/objectives. It's kind of a necessity when going with an Open World that there will be retread.

There are XP gains, Subclasses, Skill Trees, Quests/Missions to complete, full weapon and armor slots with a variety of gear to fill them, loot drops, Faction and Vendor reputation to gain, dungeons (strikes) and Raids... That's a heavy amount of RPG elements. Far from RPG Lite.

Enemy spawn locations being the same is a necessity of having an openly multiplayer game, just as relatively quick respawns are. It's absolutely true of every MMO and every MMO-esque game that allows multiple players from different physical locations to occupy the same public spaces. This gives everyone a fair shot at the same experiences rather than having some players have to hunt longer for enemies or wait forever for respawns because another person or group is farming and killing everything before them.

 

[DesertFox]

I'm not worried one bit.

Bungie has a tendency to deliver games that are replayable for years. You play the same missions and multiplayer maps over and over again, yet the experience is slightly different each time... especially when playing with friends cooperatively.

Plus we'll be getting expansions. I like that word over "DLC" because it suggests they will bring forth plenty of new content for us to enjoy.

In Bungie, I believe.

This. While I am slightly disappointed that there is only 1 zone per planet, that stems from excitement from the game and a desire to explore, not because I believe the developer owes us something with all that dev time they put into the game. And at the risk of sounding anti-consumer, I'd gladly spend $60 on the game with 1 zone per planet and buy any DLC they release for the game.

 

[benny_a]

*looking out into skybox* "This is all real geometry and you could go there, we could go there right now."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTfhrONAp-c&feature=youtu.be&t=2m1s

made into webm quickly which should make it even easier to pinpoint and view in a browser: http://a.pomf.se/ujgcxl.webm

 

[crappybannedjunior999999]

He said alpha. Alpha had higher numbers on armor and weapons. All the ya up to 107 damage on guns.

Ahh. My bad. Apologies.

 

[Two Words]

So you would be fine if you could walk down specifically to that field, even if there were no enemies, no loot, no particular reason to do so. But as long as it was there and you could do it, that would be fine because that's what he stated right? This is the next logical progression to taking everything word for word literal during presentations.



It is Open World and many Open World games have the players traverse the same areas for different missions/objectives. It's kind of a necessity when going with an Open World that there will be retread.

There are XP gains, Subclasses, Skill Trees, Quests/Missions to complete, full weapon and armor slots with a variety of gear to fill them, loot drops, Faction and Vendor reputation to gain, dungeons (strikes) and Raids... That's a heavy amount of RPG elements. Far from RPG Lite.

Enemy spawn locations being the same is a necessity of having an openly multiplayer game, just as relatively quick respawns are. It's absolutely true of every MMO and every MMO-esque game that allows multiple players from different physical locations to occupy the same public spaces. This gives everyone a fair shot at the same experiences rather than having some players have to hunt longer for enemies or wait forever for respawns because another person or group is farming and killing everything before them.

It would turn it from a blatant lie to a misleading comment.

 

[BokehKing]

I played the alpha and leveled up like crazy. Got bored of doing the same thing in the beta so I got to lvl 8 with around 200 defense and stopped. It is a poor-man's lootwhore game. I've played plenty of better lootwhore games and this didn't satisfy me like those.

The Moon & Venus multiplayer maps were not enticing. Crucible is just PvP/deathmatch garbage. You can't lump that in with explorable areas. The Tower is not going to be smaller than a medium part of Old Russia, if you are using that to add the amount of "exploration" than you crazy.

You got a screen shot of that so called '200 defense'?
You played better games but how were their betas? . Cause that's all this was

 

[Uiki]

*looking out into skybox* "This is all real geometry and you could go there, we could go there right now."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTfhrONAp-c&feature=youtu.be&t=2m1s

I still don't get it.

They can't be lying like that.

 

[crappybannedjunior999999]

You got a screen shot of that so called '200 defense'?
You played better games but how were their betas? . Cause that's all this was

I made the same mistake. He said Alpha.

 

[Darryl M R]

Some people are in love with Bungie. I pre-ordered the collector's edition and I have no plans of canceling but I am not going to be blind to the fact that they lied about certain things. "Misleading comments" "stretching the truth" "vague description" they are all lies. Lying isn't morally wrong--no one is wanting to skin Bungie but it is just so interesting the effort people will defend a company that they do not own any stocks in.

 

[Confused Cheeseburger]

It would do well to remember that this is a $60 game. Just some perspective, js.

 

[BigDug13]

So you would be fine if you could walk down specifically to that field, even if there were no enemies, no loot, no particular reason to do so. But as long as it was there and you could do it, that would be fine because that's what he stated right? This is the next logical progression to taking everything word for word literal during presentations.



It is Open World and many Open World games have the players traverse the same areas for different missions/objectives. It's kind of a necessity when going with an Open World that there will be retread.

There are XP gains, Subclasses, Skill Trees, Quests/Missions to complete, full weapon and armor slots with a variety of gear to fill them, loot drops, Faction and Vendor reputation to gain, dungeons (strikes) and Raids... That's a heavy amount of RPG elements. Far from RPG Lite.

Enemy spawn locations being the same is a necessity of having an openly multiplayer game, just as relatively quick respawns are. It's absolutely true of every MMO and every MMO-esque game that allows multiple players from different physical locations to occupy the same public spaces. This gives everyone a fair shot at the same experiences rather than having some players have to hunt longer for enemies or wait forever for respawns because another person or group is farming and killing everything before them.

Yes we realize WHY enemy spawns are the way they are. But it doesn't mean that mechanic doesn't suck. And the real question is this for me:

Does the in-game benefit of the addition of random players running around your instance outweigh the negative game mechanics that must be adopted to facilitate the random players in the same instance? Does it add to the game community to see random players running around when you can't communicate with them and does it outweigh the negative consequences of the game mechanics changes?

 

[cripterion]

Enemy spawn locations being the same is a necessity of having an openly multiplayer game, just as relatively quick respawns are. It's absolutely true of every MMO and every MMO-esque game that allows multiple players from different physical locations to occupy the same public spaces. This gives everyone a fair shot at the same experiences rather than having some players have to hunt longer for enemies or wait forever for respawns because another person or group is farming and killing everything before them.

The spawns being the same it's definitely not a necessity, why couldn't they randomize just a tad?

 

[ElTorro]

made into webm quickly which should make it even easier to pinpoint and view in a browser: http://a.pomf.se/ujgcxl.webm[url][/...oser to the actual game play (which is good).

 

[Zombie James]

So you would be fine if you could walk down specifically to that field, even if there were no enemies, no loot, no particular reason to do so. But as long as it was there and you could do it, that would be fine because that's what he stated right? This is the next logical progression to taking everything word for word literal during presentations.

Yes? There are plenty of open world games with areas that don't have much going on or nothing to do, but what it does do is make the world feel believable and complete. If I want to spend my time climbing far-off mountains, that's my prerogative.

 

[BokehKing]

He said alpha. Alpha had higher numbers on armor and weapons. All the ya up to 107 damage on guns.

Yeah but he was making reference to getting 200 defense in the beta not the alpha


I think a game like this can be played a lot of different ways if you're only going to do the story, then yeah I guess people may have a valid point

But if you do everything the game has to offer (most of which we don't know about yet) it will satisfy for a long time

I love the discovery/collecting & hunting for materials for upgrades, ect ect

Some people can't be bothered withthst

 

[Jest Chillin]

It would turn it from a blatant lie to a misleading comment.

You understand that logic like this is the very reason why Developers can't talk about anything until the game ships right? Because people will say they were mislead or lied to as if that was the Developer intention from the start when the reality is often that sometimes things just don't come together the way they're intended and they get scrapped or reworked. Again, Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Devs either:
+Say very little about the games features.
-Fans respond negatively about lack of information and assume something bad is being hidden/avoided.
+Talk about features vaguely to give fans an idea.
-Some fans respond negatively to the lack of clarity while others make assumptions and are upset when those assumptions turn out not to be true.
+Talk about features in-depth, release a ton of info.
-Fans complain about feature changes or cuts during the dev process. Use it as a sign that the Devs are unskilled, lack project control, or over-promise.

 

[crappybannedjunior999999]

I still don't get it.

They can't be lying like that.

Somebody made a mistake. It's really that simple. That's not as exciting a narrative as "Bungie lied to us!" nor does it correlate with these same people's opinion of how much content they are entitled to for their $60.

 

[Tash]

There are a few either/or skills in the class skill list, but it looks like the majority of customisation will be via the gear you receive. With mods that show motion tracker on ads, or ones that clock you when you ads, or kills returning ammo to the magazine, etc... It looks like the choices aren't ever going to be obvious or binary, with choice utility adding a decent amount of variety.

Hopefully they'll deliver on this foundation.

oic, thanks. That has me even more worried about class differences or unique character builds.

 

[Ingueferroque]

I put 20 hours into the beta with only one character. I'm pretty sure there will be enough content in the base game to warrant $60.

This is what makes most of this discussion so ridiculous. And it's not just you, or me. The beta has been very positively received and I'm sure most people put considerate time into it.

 

[BigDug13]

Yes? There are plenty of open world games with areas that don't have much going on or nothing to do, but what it does do is make the world feel believable and complete. If I want to spend my time climbing far-off mountains, that's my prerogative.

I think people expected far off landmarks to possibly be another zone like BL2 does. Oh hey that city in the distance? You'll get there eventually. See that mountain over there? Yep you'll be there soon. Realistically it wasn't actually there in that zone but you had to zone into a different zone and Borderlands is more a list of maps with spawn points that make you think it's a big world, but it still made it seem like a world when far off landmarks were a representation of other game zones.

 

[Lakitu]

I was really looking forward to Mumbai Push

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Somebody made a mistake. It's really that simple. That's not as exciting a narrative as "Bungie lied to us!" nor does it correlate with these same people's opinion of how much content they are entitled to for their $60.

A mistake that was never corrected?

I'm sorry. I got love for Bungie, and I think this game looks super fun, but can we stop with the blind defense?

 

[Leatherface]

bunch or worry warts you guys are. Think about it. By constantly changing planets, there are literally no rules in what kind of environments and locations Bungie can dream up. Judging strictly by the demo I think we're all in for a huge treat. Destiny is going to be amazing!

 

[Zombie James]

+Talk about features in-depth, release a ton of info.
-Fans complain about feature changes or cuts during the dev process. Use it as a sign that the Devs are unskilled, lack project control, or over-promise.

The issue is we only find out about these cuts via random throw-away comments on streams or, worse, after the game ships. If developers were open and communicative about dropped features, there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

I still don't get it.

They can't be lying like that.

The worst part is that's the intro area. You couldn't even return to it during the Beta. The only possible way I could spin this is maybe just maybe that area will be a link to a new map. It might take you to City Perimeter or Eastern Flood Zone. The map might zoom out as you unlock new areas so there only 1 real location on Earth, Old Russia, but 3 areas inside of it. I don't know what to believe at this point though.

 

[Papercuts]

Somebody made a mistake. It's really that simple. That's not as exciting a narrative as "Bungie lied to us!" nor does it correlate with these same people's opinion of how much content they are entitled to for their $60.

I wouldn't even say it was a mistake, since it was clearly actual geometry in that demo, even if it isn't possible to get there in the beta(and further, when you do stuff like jump out of bounds your corpse falls through the world so there is no geometry at all).

They just had to make concessions later in development, which always sucks but is an unfortunate reality of things at times. I don't blame people for feeling slighted when a game is built up to be a certain way though, I still reel when I re-watch the Bioshock Infinite E3 demo that is nothing at all like the game we got.

 

[Two Words]

Yeah but he was making reference to getting 200 defense in the beta not the alpha


I think a game like this can be played a lot of different ways if you're only going to do the story, then yeah I guess people may have a valid point

But if you do everything the game has to offer (most of which we don't know about yet) it will satisfy for a long time

I love the discovery/collecting & hunting for materials for upgrades, ect ect

Some people can't be bothered withthst

He said alpha in that post.

 

[Uiki]

Somebody made a mistake. It's really that simple. That's not as exciting a narrative as "Bungie lied to us!" nor does it correlate with these same people's opinion of how much content they are entitled to for their $60.

No, i wasn't pointing at the actuall bullshit the pulled.

I was pointing on HOW they did it. In that video he's almost arrogant and he puts so much emphasis on how it's all geometry and explorable... that's why i'm baffled.

Usually you say "hey, we got an open world game!" and if there are invisible walls and non-walkable zones... no one says anything. You do not go "LOOK, LOOK, HUGE EXPLORABLE WORLD!" knowing that you have what we saw in the beta. Doesnj't make any sense.


It's not a mistake, that's for sure.

Although I didn't enjoy the beta I was left with a feeling that they must have something. It can't be like that.

 

[benny_a]

The issue is we only find out about these cuts via random throw-away comments on streams or, worse, after the game ships. If developers were open and communicative about dropped features, there wouldn't be a problem.

Maybe there would be a problem. Right now a lot of threads are caricatures where everything is blown out of proportion.

But I don't see why it matters if developers and publishers decide to show their games closer to release?

Some people getting angsty over lack of information about the developers they like? That isn't worth the trade off of having previews more accurately reflect the final product.

 

[Popetita]

I'm sure I'll have lots of fun with the game still but this sorta sucks. I always thought Earth was going to be bigger than Old Russia( even if we haven't seen it's full size). I always thought we could have 2 or 3 regions/enviroments of each planet to play in.

I hope that they didn't just do this to add them in a DLC down the road. It's not that I wouldn't like DLc, but ever since I saw/tried the game I thought we would get a complete story on the stages we had, then some other planets for the DLC.

Also, I'm not aware of this, but hwwhat is the level cap for the game? 20? 30? 50? I hope it's 50.

 

[crappybannedjunior999999]

A mistake that was never corrected?

I'm sorry. I got love for Bungie, and I think this game looks super fun, but can we stop with the blind defense?

You're right. They made a mistake years ago that they never bothered to fix. Cancel your pre-order. Never mind the fact that you haven't even played it.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Yes we realize WHY enemy spawns are the way they are. But it doesn't mean that mechanic doesn't suck. And the real question is this for me:

Does the in-game benefit of the addition of random players running around your instance outweigh the negative game mechanics that must be adopted to facilitate the random players in the same instance? Does it add to the game community to see random players running around when you can't communicate with them and does it outweigh the negative consequences of the game mechanics changes?

It's not a negative game mechanic in any other MMO-esque game that's ever released. I've followed tons of them and MMO players never complain about static spawns in the world. I've literally only seen it here, with Destiny, and I think it has a lot to do with players being more familiar with FPS games than MMO games and having different expectations.

And yes, the additional players adds more to the experience than having random enemy spawns even without the ability to communicate with them on the fly. Because it acknowledges and reinforces the lore of there being other Guardians out there on their own missions, fighting in their own ways. You may cross paths with them but have different goals over all.

The spawns being the same it's definitely not a necessity, why couldn't they randomize just a tad?

They actually are "randomized" just a tad in that they often respawn by way of dropships that fly in with replacement squads. The dropships actively fire on any Players in the vicinity to allow their squads to deploy and the squads themselves then patrol to their stationed area. There are also random un-named and un-marked events where Patrols on Pikes may fly through a zone attacking players or rival NPC enemies have huge battles. This is actually a lot more unique a way to bring life to these enemies than most other MMO's bother with.

Yes? There are plenty of open world games with areas that don't have much going on or nothing to do, but what it does do is make the world feel believable and complete. If I want to spend my time climbing far-off mountains, that's my prerogative.

And yet there are those that are complaining that the areas that are already in the game are too sparse and empty. So whose desires are more important? Yours or Theirs? It's simply no possible to accommodate everyone.

 

[benny_a]

You're right. They made a mistake years ago that they never bothered to fix. Cancel your pre-order. Never mind the fact that you haven't even played it.

One year ago at the biggest video game conference the world has.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

You're right. They made a mistake years ago that they never bothered to fix. Cancel your pre-order. Never mind the fact that you haven't even played it.

Years? That video I linked is 1 year, 1 month and 2 weeks old.

 

[TrickyDaddy]

Not sure what the fuss is about. I already put in well over 10 hours on beta. Only played a day and a half but that's mostly because I didn't know how to unlock multiplayer until the last minute.

I miss this game already. I just strongly hope that they include proximity voice chat at some point in the future!

 

[T.O.P]

I was really looking forward to Mumbai Push

Goddamnit :/

 

[vasametropolis]

Will almost definitely cancel my pre-order and wait until there's more content. This is dumb.

1) It's not a single-player driven story
2) It's "not an MMO" or a "co-op shooter"
3) It's a "shared world" shooter with average PvP

So there's a short story, non-RPG levels of content, and a mundane PvP. Sounds like a great time. I don't even know what this game is supposed to be. It's everything and nothing at the same time.

 

[Darryl M R]

Maybe there would be a problem. Right now a lot of threads are caricatures where everything is blown out of proportion.

But I don't see why it matters if developers and publishers decide to show their games closer to release?

Some people getting angsty over lack of information about the developers they like? That isn't worth the trade off of having previews more accurately reflect the final product.

If companies wan to really push pre-ordering their games then some level of transparency should be there along the whole way. This isn't me saying I am entitled as a gamer. No I am entitled as a consumer. I put my money down backing you, and you can use my pre-order and the pre-orders of others to brag to your investors. I want to know what I have purchased and of course a company could want to hide some aspects of a game, but if features are removed it should be publicized.

We wouldn't let other industries get away with this, what is different about gaming?


-

Edit: Not attacking you btw, I just want to have this discussion on the entitlement of companies in the gaming industries on consumers.

 

[BigDug13]

It's not a negative game mechanic in any other MMO-esque game that's ever released. I've followed tons of them and MMO players never complain about static spawns in the world. I've literally only seen it here, with Destiny, and I think it has a lot to do with players being more familiar with FPS games than MMO games and having different expectations.

And yes, the additional players adds more to the experience than having random enemy spawns even without the ability to communicate with them on the fly. Because it acknowledges and reinforces the lore of there being other Guardians out there on their own missions, fighting in their own ways. You may cross paths with them but have different goals over all.




They actually are "randomized" just a tad in that they often respawn by way of dropships that fly in with replacement squads. The dropships actively fire on any Players in the vicinity to allow their squads to deploy and the squads themselves then patrol to their stationed area. There are also random un-named and un-marked events where Patrols on Pikes may fly through a zone attacking players or rival NPC enemies have huge battles. This is actually a lot more unique a way to bring life to these enemies than most other MMO's bother with.



And yet there are those that are complaining that the areas that are already in the game are too sparse and empty. So whose desires are more important? Yours or Theirs? It's simply no possible to accommodate everyone.

Yeah people in an MMO never complain because they're playing an MMO. Continually repeating outloud that Destiny is an MMO doesn't make it one. 16 player instances of players you have no way to communicate with is not an MMO. A non-MMO adopting MMO mechanics is not a good thing when the game could have been made with instances for your group only and could have adopted more dynamic spawning and a more believable world. It is my opinion that Destiny has adopted MMO mechanics without providing an adequate MMO experience to outweigh the negatives of that mechanic.

That's not to say the game is bad, but it limits how dynamic the content can be.

 

[IAmRandom31]

I still don't get it.

They can't be lying like that.

Perhaps at one point this was true?

With how the early interviews in February 2013 were, and what was said back then, it feels like Destiny started with one vision and ended up being another. The actual gameplay never changing, but the scope of the world seems to have been scaled back for whatever reason.