Support NeoGAF

[Unknown?]

This seems like a pointless article. All it does is point out what we already know. Seems like a good lure for the type of crowd who eats up any spec speculation but no substance. I'm less and less impressed with DF lately.

 

[Vince DiCola]

Give me graphics over frames! Anytime!

Absolutely!

 

[Fredrik]

On PC you have no choice. Different people are going to have different hardware and therefore get different framerates, and even if you implement a framerate cap people will find ways around it.

Oh I know about that, I'm just a bit surprised that MS says that different framerates is such a big issue all of a sudden... while it's never an issue on PC.

My take on this. It's just PR. It sounds bad to say that even the new upgraded console can't handle 60fps so they say that it's because having different framerates would be bad for multiplayer instead.

 

[Curufinwe]

You're on a roll. The consistency is impressive.

Where else would a sloppy joe be?

 

[The Hamburglar]

I have the same question about For Honor. I'm guessing it's partly due to the CPU requirements for P2P multiplayer.

Call of duty manages it so that's bullshit

 

[ornery]

This seems like a pointless article. All it does is point out what we already know. Seems like a good lure for the type of crowd who eats up any spec speculation but no substance. I'm less and less impressed with DF lately.

Article was placed to appease us geek ass bastards

 

[Gator86]

Keep telling yourself that.

And even based on your argument... if 30 FPS is acceptable (30 FPS is more than just acceptable, but that's besides the point), how is that a deprioritization?

how is hitting an industry standard of acceptance deprioritizing? Wouldn't the argument in this case be 60 FPS is overachieving considering it is NOT an industry standard?

I can't wait for your reactions to next gen gaming when NOTHING has changed.

Well, I guess it depends on how you want to define prioritization. You could define it as mandating adherence to an industry minimum standard, which they've done here, or striving to go above and beyond the minimum standard by devoting extra resources to an aspect you deem to be particularly important. I tend to lean more toward the latter, I suppose. But sure, you can prioritize achieving an industry minimum.

My reactions will be the same next gen. Higher framerates are better but the market generally doesn't demand them and devs prefer to try and move games on shiny over fluidity. I'll keep playing and enjoying games either way.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

Call of duty manages it so that's bullshit

Lots of multiplayer FPS games manage it

With more players.

And more things going on in the levels.

Bungie is definitely prioritizing 4K over 60FPS.

 

[VincentMatts]

This seems like a pointless article. All it does is point out what we already know. Seems like a good lure for the type of crowd who eats up any spec speculation but no substance. I'm less and less impressed with DF lately.

lol ok

 

[Darkstorne]

Oh I know about that, I'm just a bit surprised that MS says that different framerates is such a big issue all of a sudden... while it's never an issue on PC.

My take on this. It's just PR. It sounds bad to say that even the new upgraded console can't handle 60fps so they say that it's because having different framerates would be bad for multiplayer instead.

Yep. Frame rate is far from the only factor in console multiplayer edge anyway. Some people still play on small 720p displays, yet will be going head to head against gamers with 4K 60 inch monsters when Scorpio is out. That difference in image quality and visual aid is a significantly bigger advantage than 30fps vs 60fps.

 

[Kthulhu]

The CPU is a bottleneck, we have known this since the spec reveal of the PS4. Why do you guys repeatedly set yourselves up for disappointment?

Once the honeymoon phase of the Scorpio wears off we'll see the same thing.

Other games with a similar amount of visual fidelity run at 60FPS with more players in their multiplayer modes. Other than it being a design choice, I don't understand why a 4v4 multiplayer match can't run at 60FPS. I simply can't go back to a 30FPS multiplayer shooter at this point.

Then don't. Get the PC version or don't buy it at all.

 

[Hux1ey]

Give me graphics over frames! Anytime!

 

[Kayant]

- No limitations to stop developers doing this, however (to Rich's knowledge)

There it is again in case people still have the misinformed notion thanks to shitty reporting by Videogamer that a MP parity exists.

 

[Kthulhu]

Give me graphics over frames! Anytime!

Oh, you poor bastard.

Edit: you ain't even getting better effects in this case. You're just getting less jaggies thanks to 4K.

 

[Hermii]

Can we get a bit of a summary, for us plebs with limited mobile data?

Jaguar cpus are weak sauce and limits the framerate. Pro gpu is awesome and can handle a lot of pixels.

 

[adamsapple]

There it is again in case people still have the misinformed notion thanks to shitty reporting by Videogamer that a MP parity exists.

huh ?????

That was Rich giving his opinion, it's nothing that's been said anywhere official.

An actual MS developer saying "As a developer, I would bet no one chooses different frame-rates for multiplayer games ever." shows you their actual train of thought. Most likely Sony has the same sentiments.

 

[mas8705]

The cynic in me deep down thinks that MS moneyhatted Bungie to purposely not code the PS4 version to do 60fps so that they could have that exclusivity on the obvious but not yet announced Scorpio version. I hope that's not why, but it wouldn't surprise me.

So do we point out to him about the whole "Sony partnership" that Destiny had? Including all the special console exclusive stuff that was on the PS4 (or was first on PS4)? Hell, bare in mind that this is STILL! going to be a thing in Destiny 2 where Destiny 2 Will Have PS4-Exclusive Content For A Limited Time. It would be rather dumb to think that just because of all these exclusives with Sony, they would in turn make the PS4 version of Destiny 2 perform inferior to the Xbox One or Scorpio.

Honestly, I'm more interested to see what kind of storm will brew up when it is confirmed the Xbox One (and Scorpio) versions of the game will perform at around the same as the PS4 and PS4 Pro. Even the OP had pointed this out in his post: "Those hoping for 60fps on Scorpio are likely to be disappointed for the same reason"

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Sure, no problem!

"Sorry, but the bar was raised to an insanely high level with Horizon Zero Dawn. Rockstar has their work cut out for them."


Dude....seriously? That's all you have? My quote on HZD was complete fact and seeing as we have seen ZERO gameplay on RDR2, it's 100% true. And quit stalking me.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Where else would a sloppy joe be?

 

[Tagyhag]

Keep telling yourself that.

And even based on your argument... if 30 FPS is acceptable (30 FPS is more than just acceptable, but that's besides the point), how is that a deprioritization?

how is hitting an industry standard of acceptance deprioritizing? Wouldn't the argument in this case be 60 FPS is overachieving considering it is NOT an industry standard?

I can't wait for your reactions to next gen gaming when NOTHING has changed.

I'm curious about that. I wonder if 30fps will still be the console standard in like, 2050.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

How fast can a Jaguar run?
How fast does a jaguar run? A: The jaguar can run at speeds of between 50 and 65 miles per hour. Although this animal can reach incredible speeds, it cannot maintain them for long.

How fast can a jaguar run...

Spoiler

with a scorpion on it's back?

Spoiler

Find out at E3.

Spoiler

This post was sponsored by Statham™

 

[The Hamburglar]

why do people think resolution from 1080p to 4k is 'better graphics' lol!

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Remember another previously console exclusive engine built around 30fps which was a mess on PC? (Forza Horizon 3).

I predict you're going to need an absolute beastly PC to run Destiny 2 at 4K/60fps/Ultra.

 

[DC1]

Jesus..

Christ.

.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Could have sworn I read a post on Gaf the other day saying that someone at DF had said that they could have potentially reached 60fps if it weren't for P2P and they had dedicated servers to offload some of the CPU work to.

Can't remember which thread it was though. I was busy at the time.

 

[Hasney]

Damn, that Destiny 2 footage with 60fps interpolation looked so nice. I wish you could get them on TVs with no added lag, but it's not possible.

 

[Raide]

I am really interested to see the Pro and subsequent Scorpio versions of this game. If they are locking at 30fps, that means they have plenty of power to push 4k and other IQ effects. I doubt very much they are maxing out the Pro CPU and GPU wise, so the Scorpio version has even more to play with. 30fps is fine due to CPU limitation, so it should be one of the best looking games due to the extra GPU available right?

 

[Carn82]

I am really interested to see the Pro and subsequent Scorpio versions of this game. If they are locking at 30fps, that means they have plenty of power to push 4k and other IQ effects. I doubt very much they are maxing out the Pro CPU and GPU wise, so the Scorpio version has even more to play with. 30fps is fine due to CPU limitation, so it should be one of the best looking games due to the extra GPU available right?

According to certain GAFers Destiny 2 looks like a last gen game no matter how you spin it, so your mileage may vary.

 

[duhmetree]

Although severely disappointed we couldn't get 60fps on console, I've accepted it.

With PC delayed, I'd play/grind on my pro and have a newly built PC ready to go once it drops. Bungie is costing me a lot of money.

 

[Hasney]

I am really interested to see the Pro and subsequent Scorpio versions of this game. If they are locking at 30fps, that means they have plenty of power to push 4k and other IQ effects. I doubt very much they are maxing out the Pro CPU and GPU wise, so the Scorpio version has even more to play with. 30fps is fine due to CPU limitation, so it should be one of the best looking games due to the extra GPU available right?

Not necessarily. They could always be using some of that compute power to do other things or just be bottlenecked by the CPU in general. Nothing is that simple.

 

[SprachBrooks]

Jesus..

Christ.

Lol.

 

[Outrun]

The cynic in me deep down thinks that MS moneyhatted Bungie to purposely not code the PS4 version to do 60fps so that they could have that exclusivity on the obvious but not yet announced Scorpio version. I hope that's not why, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Holy fuck...


Occam's Razor. Both the Pro and the Scorpio are not powerful enough to achieve 60fps with the graphical fidelity that the dev is aiming for.

 

[Raide]

Not necessarily. They could always be using some of that compute power to do other things or just be bottlenecked by the CPU in general. Nothing is that simple.

I guess its not too long to find out.

I tell you something, the DF showdown with XB1, Scorpio, PS4, Pro and PC is going to be crazy haha.

 

[Shikoba]

I am really interested to see the Pro and subsequent Scorpio versions of this game. If they are locking at 30fps, that means they have plenty of power to push 4k and other IQ effects. I doubt very much they are maxing out the Pro CPU and GPU wise, so the Scorpio version has even more to play with. 30fps is fine due to CPU limitation, so it should be one of the best looking games due to the extra GPU available right?

Isn't all the gameplay footage coming out from the reveal event PS4 pro gameplay? It should give a pretty good idea on what to expect I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViAUxQ6h5Ek

EDIT: Though I guess it should be said that the game's beta hasn't even hit yet so they could still be making improvements and such.

 

[13ruce]

But would 60fps not be an unfair advantage in pvp?
In coop it should be fine.

 

[adamsapple]

But would 60fps not be an unfair advantage in pvp?
In coop it should be fine.

It would be, that's the bottom line DF comes to at the end of their video.

 

[Dinky Dino]

Doubt it will be 4k either.

Maybe. But the game doesn't look that great either way to say it couldn't hit native 4k at 30 fps and maybe going down to 25 fps in the most intensive moments.

 

[hemo memo]

I don't want to play the backseat dev here. But i believe 4x4 pvp @60 fps is doable. But bungie is aiming at parity across everything in consoles. So...

But ofcource they can't say it even if it's true.

 

[10k]

????

Its because they all run on tablet CPU tech, simple as, 1.6 TF or 6 TF does not matter its the Jaguar.

Yes that's likely the main reason. I'm just saying even if the pro could do 60fps they wouldn't for the reasons I said.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

The PC version is running at an unlocked frame rate. While there isn't any footage available due to a Sony marketing deal, PC version was available at the reveal event and someone would have mentioned the animations locked to 30.

One would think. I just have this feeling that this is going to be a thing. Possibly even the real reason in the back of Bungie's mind not to even go down that road for 60fps. Since there is no way to have a PC version and not have an unlocked framerate, I suppose there will be some kind of 'play it locked 30 for the intended experience, play unlocked if preferred' type of thing.

 

[xxMaximusxx]

You realise that the developer picks what to focus on and any game they like could be 60fps with the right sacrifices, right? You'll likely be disappointed with the shooters next gen too when the developers use the extra resources for other things rather than framerate.

I won't be disappointed. Console players might be who are stuck behind everyone else

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Framerate should have been PS4 Pro's #1 priority.

Yeah, but then you get regular 30fps ps4 players who are facing against 60fps people.

Then it will become a shit storm.

 

[Raide]

It would be, that's the bottom line DF comes to at the end of their video.

I wonder how that actually translates to real-world player performance? How can you really measure how much of an advantage a 60fps player have over a 30fps player. 33.3ms at 60 against 16.6 ms at 30.

 

[Symbiotx]

I won't be disappointed. Console players might be who are stuck behind everyone else

Nah, they'll be fine because it's not a crippling problem that everyone makes it out to be. It's not optimal performance, but I'm pretty sure anyone playing on a console knows that already.

 

[J 0 E]

- Not really fair (in Rich's opinion) to have multiplayer games running at different framerates

Totally agree with Rich here

even if Bungie can deliver 60fps on console I don't think they will < OG consoles are holding the new ones back.

 

[pksu]

Why would animations be locked at 30 fps on PC? Is Bungie known for using animation tech from the '90s?

 

[grfunkulus]

Yeah, but then you get regular 30fps ps4 players who are facing against 60fps people.

Then it will become a shit storm.

Who can say the PS4 pro would a be a rock solid 60fps like the regular is a nearly unmovable 30fps. I would hate to see them unlock the framerate on the pro and scorpio only to see it dip significantly when multiple supers are used (I'm honestly worried about the performance on my 1060 equipped laptop...it might be fine 95% of the time but if it dips or hitches when I'm trying to get a clutch triple kill with my GG, I'm gonna be annoyed...never had that worry in D1)

Honestly, imagine mayhem clash on the pro at 1080p (or higher) resolution and 60fps...idk if it could handle it...they have to have enough overhead built into the engine for something like that which probably creates several times the strain as regular combat

 

[Insane Metal]

Yup, sounds about right.

 

[Oresama]

Quick question:

With regard to computational ability, was the PS3 CELL CPU more capable than the PS4 CPU?

 

[xxMaximusxx]

Nah, they'll be fine because it's not a crippling problem that everyone makes it out to be. It's not optimal performance, but I'm pretty sure anyone playing on a console knows that already.

Yeah, that's why there's so many threads and comments on it....