hydrophilic attack
Member
When you systematically have a bigger focus on one trait for one gender, and a bigger focus on the other trait for another gender, that is problematic
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Does listening to rap make you a misogynist?
- Thread starter ethanny2
- Start date
When you systematically have a bigger focus on one trait for one gender, and a bigger focus on the other trait for another gender, that is problematic
hydrophilic attack
Member
Yes, they're all problematic in many ways. But whataboutism is not very constructive :/
Gotdatmoney
Member
Eh not really. Depends on what you are listening to and who the artist is.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Nearly all US media is misogynistic and violent because the culture is. Rap is always the scapegoat for obvious reasons- its performers are majority Black and they use scary curse words. A good amount of rap isn't misogynistic. What's out there in the mainstream isn't even put out there by Black gatekeepers, its folks who have a vested interest in perpetuating stereotypes.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Gotdatmoney
Member
The point isn't about being constructive. It's highlighting that all popular media in the US is mygionsistic and violent but some how we consistently are talking about just hip hop because black people make it. Which make no mistake, is the only actual reason why the genre is targetted over and over and over.
It's a boring discussion. I am not gonna entertain constant rap is evil shit when the culture of the land that everyone embraces literally has all this shit as standard practice
n00bsauce87
Member
meh, I wouldn't hang around people who thinks that. I don't think trying to reason with them will work.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Is this the case?
For example, there tends to be a lot of discussion here on gaf about misogynistic tendencies in video games and movies. We discuss those a lot more often than rap, ime
stump sock
Member
that'll show 'em
Gotdatmoney
Member
Rap has been under attack for the exact same this thread is about for what, 4 decades? Gaf does not represent the world man.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Lol I just support whatever i like. I avoid playing certain media around my kids due to misogyny or violence but I don't purity test my entertainment. I even listen to racist anti-Black music just to smh at what's out there, doesn't mean I agree with the artist's views.
BobNewbert31
Member
By ex, I hope you mean your most recent girl that didn't allow you to hang out with your friends and was supposedly getting hit on by every guy at work.
If so, good job.
n00bsauce87
Member
Ask her what she feels about Macklemore.
You'll pretty much get a clearer understanding of the situation
You'll pretty much get a clearer understanding of the situation
Rap is worse than other music genres on these issues. Much worse.
Rap being a predominantly black art form and America being racist doesn't render that statement false nor does that statement somehow absolve other, predominantly white genres.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
That would be killing two birds with one stone. I hope its the same person too, for OPs sake.
I don't think anyone is saying all rap music, there is tons of good, clean rap obviously. But I also think Rap still gets way more of a pass for homophobia and misogyny than any other genre, or medium that I can think of. And I think that's an issue when people don't see some of the lyrics as problematic. It seems like criticism of rap is stuck in the 90s sometimes, while most other mainstream media would get rightfully blasted for similar content, rap tends to get a free pass.
Gotdatmoney
Member
So you think the criticism over rap and hip hop is not about it being black? You think all the critics of rap music (whom barely even listen to it) are really genuinely concerned with the violence (have you ever explored the neighbourhood and lives a lot of these people live in) and the drug talk (which is used roughly equally across races?
I don't. Just because a song has mentions of violence or drugs, it doesn'y imply its glorifying it. And even if it is, the criticism is not being aimed because the masses think these things are problems. It's because it's black people doing it.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Well, I'm not American so I'm not as well-versed in your culture wars as y'all. Just as Gaf doesn't represent the world, neither does the USA. In my country no one really criticizes rap music for misogyny, though our rap music tends to contain a lot less of it than American rap music.
It seems like you're saying that discussion about misogyny and violence in other genres than rap is not discussed enough in America as a whole? Then, by all means, misogyny in the other aspects of American culture should be discussed more in American society at large.
But by that same token, if discussion about misogyny in rap music is not discussed enough on gaf, then shouldn't we strive to discuss it more than we currently do here at gaf?
What rock have you been living under where film doesn't get criticized for how they portray women?
Your first paragraph of rhetorical strawmen questions accomplishes nothing but distraction.
It seems you can't honestly criticize rap music for misogyny because you're more concerned about racists criticizing rap. Shame.
Gotdatmoney
Member
What is there to discuss? Some rap music has issues with certain subject matter (and I use issues loosely here). Okay. As far as North American Rap is concerned listen to your average 90s rap song and listen to something in the last year. They aren't in the same dimension on how they treat a lot of these issues.
I don't think you will find anyone saying rap doesn't have issues with misogyny so I don't get what your issue is. Mine is that the criticisms aimed at rap are not levied at other types of music that suffer the same issue and it's mainly because it's black people making it.
If all you want to say is "rap has an issue with misogyny and it should fix it" you arent saying anything. How about you address some reasons why you think that is.
Rappers talking about violence in their lives is not glorifying violence. Rappers talking about doing lots of drugs is a literal reflection of society. These actual criticism thrown at rap are surface level the vast majority of the time.
Inferno313
Banned
While it's true that some rap has some problematic content, specifically going after rap when these issues permeate every medium and genre of entertainment is pretty fucking eye-brow raising.
hydrophilic attack
Member
So because some video games overall have gotten better on women's issues, we shouldn't criticize and boycott those that have not?
I agree with you. The dogpile of criticism rap gets for being no different than most other mediums definitely has some sort of bias due to race.
Rap gets knocked for its "glorification of violence" when the most popular tv shows have brains getting splattered during prime time with multi-millions of people applauding it. Rap gets criticised for being "misogynist" when the only way to get prevent yourself from seeing some big old tities in media is by closing your eyes.
Our society is inherently both misogynist and violent, yet people feel like they're morally and ethically superior by looking down on hip-hop.
I'm not saying you're a racist for criticizing rap, we can definitely have an conversation about it. What I am saying is that to deny that there isn't a bias because it's black music is intellectually dishonest.
Gotdatmoney
Member
No but produce an actual criticism. Explore an actual argument. You wanna argue rap glorifies violence then talk about why. What is the average environment your average rapper grows up in vs your average country artist?
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I believe that rap is being handled the correct way, currently. Sure it's criticized, but it's not, en masse, being told to change or be eliminated/protested. It's past that stage. Rap as a whole has fought for and won it's freedom to express itself. Now it's "Too bad if you don't like it, just don't listen to it." And honestly, that's the way I believe it should be. It represents and relates to the voice of many, and it's expression is palpably important. Especially in the day and age of minority under representation in every other form of media.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
To be fair to country, you have artists (like Brad Paisley) criticizing bro-country as being sexist.
We also can't deny that racism does play a factor in how people criticize hip-hop.
We also can't deny that racism does play a factor in how people criticize hip-hop.
preach
hydrophilic attack
Member
I don't mind the violence nearly as much as the misogyny tbqh
But see: the discussion you proposed in this post is much more interesting than "rock and country does it too"
John Kowalski
Banned
With DAMN in specific I'm fairly ok with it because the album does make some effort to acknowledge these things as "evil", and the album is very much about that conflict.
Otherwise, I do think that supporting something you acknowledge is sexist is hardly different from being sexist yourself. Same reasoning I have for people who voted for Trump. They supported a racist candidate, does it make any difference if they're not themselves racists? Not much, imo.
Otherwise, I do think that supporting something you acknowledge is sexist is hardly different from being sexist yourself. Same reasoning I have for people who voted for Trump. They supported a racist candidate, does it make any difference if they're not themselves racists? Not much, imo.
hydrophilic attack
Member
It's not so much about purity tests as it is about trying to minimize cognitive dissonance, and avoiding financially supporting deplorables
But gaffers are generally pretty bad at putting their money where their mouth is, as evidenced by all the positive Chick Fil-A mentions in fast food threads
One Eyed Willy
Member
You dodged a bullet, your ex is batshit insane.
shadow_shogun
Member
Lol...No, it certainly doesn't. Funny enough this was Miley Cyrus's reasoning for leaving the "twerking phase" behind
Rap being an important expression doesn't absolve it from criticism at all.
lol maybe it's an interview I didn't see but the one I know is where he its about how he didn't pop a billion pills in one night all the time and didn't go as hard as some of the lyrics which is completely common sense, I don't ever think he really popped or drank as much as boasts but as part of the song. It's not to take that he isn't/hasn't done it. The only other reason he goes as far as saying its a persona is because he's been in a long ass child custody battle with his ex over their son, she used it against him in court.. He raps a lot about his issues with her during his Purple Reign album :|
Yup. For every no limit records, there's 5 ninja tune collectives that go unnoticed by the masses because they don't reach top 40. It's not that hard to find rap music that avoids violent, racial and sexual stereotypes, but they aren't the flavor of the month. It's far easier to lean into rap music that emphasizes the struggle of the poor black man. It is easier to sell MIGOS than it is to sell Busdriver 7 out of 7 days of the week.
Which honestly translates more to, "I couldn't make money off that image anymore". If Miley could ensure a top 40 album by sticking to that mtv music awards slimy persona she propped up for so long, she'd still be doing it. If anyone has moved on from that shit, it's the public.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Gotdatmoney
Member
Basically. I have no issues with talking about the problems with rap and how to combat them but I'm not gonna entertain it with fly by people who don't even want to admit part is this criticism is because it's black people making the music.
There are real elements of racism in the criticism of this genre. You compare rap now vs 20 years ago and you can see improvements as society made shifts over what is acceptable. So the issue isn't just that the genre refuses to change. But if you wanna see a reduction of power fantasies in rap maybe look at the actual environment that produces many rappers.
The misogyny in rap is a reflection of what society consumes. The biggest rap artist is Drake and Drake makes music for girls. All his music is misogynistic but good luck trying to get Shad on at the club when all the women want to hear Passionfruit.
The criticism thrown at rap for this is baffling. Yeah it has a problem. All media does. Like I said, you wanna address the power fantasies in rap then address the cause. The biggest critics of rap are not advocating getting these people outta the hood.
But I am suppose to genuinely believe this isn't about black people making the music?
miller.skippins
Banned
Thornton Reed
Member
it's not but its 100% shite
we've had threads like this recently about chick fil a or buying from amazon. The answer is always no.
miller.skippins
Banned
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
Rap tells a story. It can depict a lifestyle that contains violence and misogyny. That doesn't mean it endorses those things. It might, but not necessarily.
It's like asking if watching a movie that depicts racism makes you a racist. I'm sure there are movies that only a racist would be interested in watching, so in that case the answer could be yes. But watching American History X doesn't mean you're a racist, just because the movie depicts that.
It's like asking if watching a movie that depicts racism makes you a racist. I'm sure there are movies that only a racist would be interested in watching, so in that case the answer could be yes. But watching American History X doesn't mean you're a racist, just because the movie depicts that.
I'm sorry, but Mr. Hann was the only Linkin Park member that actually had any talent.