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Dragon Ball Super |OT3| Men in pink? How bizarre!

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ElFly

Member
Hopefully the arc has a long way to go and almost everyone has a chance to do something.

the problem with that is that then you get the One Piece syndrome, where arcs become multiyear long cause almost everybody in the cast has to have a few chapters to shine for themselves

I think Oda has noticed this and it's why he has been splintering the Strawhats
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
the problem with that is that then you get the One Piece syndrome, where arcs become multiyear long cause almost everybody in the cast has to have a few chapters to shine for themselves

I think Oda has noticed this and it's why he has been splintering the Strawhats

The way Togashi handles his characters is more appealing. Usually only a few at a time mixed with a bunch of other side characters but while others are away they're still growing behind the scenes and we see the result of that when they come back.
 

Blader

Member
I get that people are annoyed by this and it's a legitimate criticism, but i think it does need to be said that goku and vegeta did not really consider black to be a super serious threat

yeah, they go to the future thinking Black is only slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
 

HeroR

Member
In Z Goku's defense, ssj2 Gohan was about 3 or 4 times stronger than perfect Cell.

He couldn't expect Gohan would refuse to fight since he never told his dad about his feelings.

And then he couldn't expect Gohan becoming sadistic and rebellious all of a sudden.

But Cell at 100% had no chance against Gohan.

I guess the only stupid thing was that Goku couldn't have one himself, but with a fighter like Gohan, you can understand why he assumed it wouldn't be needed.

Super Saiyan 2 is a 2x multipler. So Gohan would only be twice as strong as Cell.

I get that people are annoyed by this and it's a legitimate criticism, but i think it does need to be said that goku and vegeta did not really consider black to be a super serious threat

And Goku usually don't carry the Senzus. Usually Krillin does. And it's still no more stupid that a normal person forgetting stuff.
 

olympia

Member
I love Piccolo's face, he looks funny (I don't mean that in a bad way).

i feel you, thanks :)

the more I think about it the more cell fucking sucked as a main villain

his motivations were so poor

4uDBukc.gif
 
senzu beans would only have made the asskicking last longer



he knew or at the very least had strong suspicions; staying as SSJ1 as long as possible, as to make anger being able to trigger a second form of SSJ was a logical step; if we saw how he got SSJ3, chances are he just stood around as SSJ2 for a year or something

again, Goku is the only one not surprised when SSJ2 happens



Vegeta doesn't make much progress cause he is dumb about training. the second time he even goes alone into the ROSAT, leaving the useful resource of Future Trunks as a sparring partner behind

didn't even copy the technique of staying as SSJ1 for as long as possible. who knows how much it took him to become SSJ2. chances are he got there the week before the Buu tournament, lol

granted, the afterlife makes things easier, but still it was Goku the one who got SSJ3. I find hard to believe Goku would not have gotten SSJ2 with more ROSAT time.
how is that a logical step? You're speaking purely in hindsight.

He didn't want Gohan to get traumatized and unleash his power via rage(turning into a sadist in the process), he thought Gohan was like him and loved fighting, that his potential would just naturally come out somehow while battling Cell. That's the whole of point of Piccolo calling Goku out, Goku realizing he fucked up with that plan.


Goku SAYS IT HIMSELF that training more would be pointless,(which is proven with Vegeta and AGAIN in Super when Vegeta says even 3 years in the chamber wouldn't gain them much) you can't get around that. And you still can't provide an answer as to why he wouldn't just train Gohan more if he felt he was on the verge of a transformation and they both still had a lot to gain. Goku felt he did all he could for both of them and had to place his faith in Gohan because he was like him and loved to fight, so surely his potential would come out.

Goku isn't surprised not because he knew there was some transformation waiting for Gohan but because it was his plan all along for Gohan to unleash his hidden potential and it finally came out, he's proud/relieved/happy. None of that means he knew it would come with a transformation, it didn't have to as Gohan has exploded before with no transforming going on, the transformation was a secondary accident.


and I'll say it again, I don't even care if Goku did know about SSJ2 and that Gohan was about to reach it, the point is he felt that HE himself couldn't get any stronger.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
the more I think about it the more cell fucking sucked as a main villain

his motivations were so poor

Cell was interesting when he was imperfect and there was still that sense of dread and mystery around him. But after that I agree even if he still has a cool design.

Meruem was a better Cell than Cell was.
 
Cell was interesting when he was imperfect and there was still that sense of dread and mystery around him. But after that I agree even if he still has a cool design.

Meruem was a better Cell than Cell was.

imperfect cell should have hunted down Z fighters and taken them out silently one by one before being revealed
 

HeroR

Member
Cell was interesting when he was imperfect and there was still that sense of dread and mystery around him. But after that I agree even if he still has a cool design.

Meruem was a better Cell than Cell was.

Not saying much, and it's easy to make a superior version of something when you copy someone's idea.

imperfect cell should have hunted down Z fighters and taken them out silently one by one before being revealed

Why? He has no interest in them.
 

Slaythe

Member
Goku and Beerus were in the stratosphere, not space.

Wonderful difference that it makes, given that it's not breathable either.

Not saying much, and it's easy to make a superior version of something when you copy someone's idea.



Why? He has no interest in them.

He did go after millions of humans to surpass his threats.

Would have been faster to absorb the Z fighters I guess.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Super Goku is cute. I'd rather he be like he is in Super than being boring and serious all the time.

Cause nothing in between exists....

but why even list "boring and serious all the time" as alternative? That's never happened and never will.
"It's too hot in here."
"well I'd rather it be 80 degrees and not -100."
-_-
 

Cwarrior

Member
Cell was interesting when he was imperfect and there was still that sense of dread and mystery around him. But after that I agree even if he still has a cool design.

Meruem was a better Cell than Cell was.

Imperfect cell design is one of the most beautiful character designs to come out of japan.

if there ever was an ultimate life form it would look something like that.

his design got less interesting the more he transformed.

Cell design is iconing, it inspired Hunter x Hunter meruem and jo jo bizzare adventure koichi Stand echoes.
 
This Trunks/Black arc has been mostly solid thus far, even great at points... I wonder if it can keep it up. Has potential to go down as possibly top 10 arcs in all of Dragon Ball - at least for me.
 

ElFly

Member
how is that a logical step? You're speaking purely in hindsight.

He didn't want Gohan to get traumatized and unleash his power via rage(turning into a sadist in the process), he thought Gohan was like him and loved fighting, that his potential would just naturally come out somehow while battling Cell. That's the whole of point of Piccolo calling Goku out, Goku realizing he fucked up with that plan.

what, no

Goku's plan was for Gohan to get angry and thus make his incredible potential show up

Gohan getting angry was 100% a requisite of Gohan's plan

Piccolo pointed out that he hadn't discussed this with Gohan, yes, but that doesn't undo the fact that Goku was counting on Gohan undergoing anger to bring out his hidden potential, thus SSJ2

Goku SAYS IT HIMSELF that training more would be pointless,(which is proven with Vegeta and AGAIN in Super when Vegeta says even 3 years in the chamber wouldn't gain them much) you can't get around that. And you still can't provide an answer as to why he wouldn't just train Gohan more if he felt he was on the verge of a transformation and they both still had a lot to gain. Goku felt he did all he could for both of them and had to place his faith in Gohan because he was like him and loved to fight, so surely his potential would come out.

I can get around that easily, because come Buu saga, both Goku and Vegeta have surpassed Gohan

the three years thing is about Super Saiyan Blue; back in the era where SSJ2 was relevant, another round of ROSAT could easily have done the difference for Goku

Goku isn't surprised not because he knew there was some transformation waiting for Gohan but because it was his plan all along for Gohan to unleash his hidden potential and it finally came out, he's proud/relieved/happy. None of that means he knew it would come with a transformation, it didn't have to as Gohan has exploded before with no transforming going on, the transformation was a secondary accident.

Piccolo and Vegeta also knew that Gohan would unleash more power if Gohan got angry; they had experienced it first hand

yet how do you explain Goku not being surprised by the transformation, but Piccolo and Vegeta being surprised

according to you, Gohan had exploded in anger before with no transformation, so all three SHOULD be surprised

and I'll say it again, I don't even care if Goku did know about SSJ2 and that Gohan was about to reach it, the point is he felt that HE himself couldn't get any stronger.

and I will bring it back home here. Goku definitely still had a toooon or room to grow. it was super out of character that he just stopped training during the Cell saga
 

HeroR

Member
Wonderful difference that it makes, given that it's not breathable either.



He did go after millions of humans to surpass his threats.

Would have been faster to absorb the Z fighters I guess.

Stratosphere still have some form of air. It isn't complete empty space.


He avoided any strong fighters unless he could corner them, like he tried to do against Krillin in anime filler. But he mostly stayed away since he knew Piccolo was looking for him and having one of the Z-Fighters give a distress signal wasn't what he wanted.

Cause nothing in between exists....

but why even list "boring and serious all the time" as alternative? That's never happened and never will.
"It's too hot in here."
"well I'd rather it be 80 degrees and not -100."
-_-


Depending on who you talked to, people thought Cell Saga Goku was too serious. In general though, Goku hasn't been serious in years. Even before Super, all of Goku's depiction have been goofy and laid-back. I even remember fans not liking Goku in BOG because he wasn't as serious and picked a fight with Beerus.
 
what, no

Goku's plan was for Gohan to get angry and thus make his incredible potential show up

Gohan getting angry was 100% a requisite of Gohan's plan

Piccolo pointed out that he hadn't discussed this with Gohan, yes, but that doesn't undo the fact that Goku was counting on Gohan undergoing anger to bring out his hidden potential, thus SSJ2.

You have no proof he wanted Gohan to get angry, why would he plan for that and then take the actions he did during the Cell games. Gohan's outbursts weren't always triggered by rage, just his own life being in danger was enough when he was really young. If Goku wanted to trigger Gohan's rage he would've let Cell beat the living shit out of him, instead he gives Cell a and senzu and sent Gohan out expecting him to unleash his power in the middle of their fight. That's where Piccolo calls him out, Goku thought Gohan loved fighting and that the thrill and life threatening excitement would trigger his hidden potential. If Cell didn't go out of his way to torture everyone Goku's plan would've been a complete failure.




I can get around that easily, because come Buu saga, both Goku and Vegeta have surpassed Gohan

the three years thing is about Super Saiyan Blue; back in the era where SSJ2 was relevant, another round of ROSAT could easily have done the difference for Goku


how is that getting out it? That's 7 years later, we have no idea when Goku or Vegeta obtained SSJ2 and that's also after they realized that SSJ2 actually existed. Goku was on a time limit before the Cell games and once again, HE. SAYS. IT. HIMSELF. You have absolutely no answer to this.

and you still didn't answer why Goku wouldn't just train Gohan more.



Piccolo and Vegeta also knew that Gohan would unleash more power if Gohan got angry; they had experienced it first hand

yet how do you explain Goku not being surprised by the transformation, but Piccolo and Vegeta being surprised

according to you, Gohan had exploded in anger before with no transformation, so all three SHOULD be surprised

because Piccolo and Vegeta(no one actually) had no faith in Gohan's hidden potential to bail them out, Vegeta couldn't believe that Gohan could be stronger than him or Goku. Piccolo was emotional, knew Gohan hates fighting and only saw a scared a little kid. Goku was the only one who had the had the plan of Gohan winning, everyone else thought he was crazy. When Gohan transforms Goku's relieved and happy that Gohan did it, everyone else is shocked that it actually happened and he ended up being so powerful.

as an aside I didn't really like that whole thing too much, felt like it justified Goku for just believing in his son when he WAS wrong about Gohan.

and I will bring it back home here. Goku definitely still had a toooon or room to grow. it was super out of character that he just stopped training during the Cell saga

of course Goku still had room to grow, that's not the arguement, could he had gotten strong enough to beat Cell before the Cell games? According to Goku, no, so he had to believe in Gohan, that's it.

.
 
This Trunks/Black arc has been mostly solid thus far, even great at points... I wonder if it can keep it up. Has potential to go down as possibly top 10 arcs in all of Dragon Ball - at least for me.
Same here. It's been hitting all my personal notes: It's Trunks centric (Trunks is my favorite character), SSJ2 has been getting a lot of play (SSJ2 is my favorite transformation; though Rosé is up there), being Trunks-centric, there's time travel involved (Time Travel's one of my favorite fictional plot elements), the fights have been great and the score has been outstanding.

I also like the idea of a mystery spanning an entire arc, and the fact that the cast has been on the defensive as of late. Dragon Ball is at it's best when the cast has it's back to the wall and shit gets desperate. (see: Namek and Android Sagas)

It's not without issues, but it's the most I've enjoyed Dragon Ball since the Android/Cell era. I'm glad it's playing out the way it is, and can't wait to see what happens next.
 

Baki

Member
how is that a logical step? You're speaking purely in hindsight.

He didn't want Gohan to get traumatized and unleash his power via rage(turning into a sadist in the process), he thought Gohan was like him and loved fighting, that his potential would just naturally come out somehow while battling Cell. That's the whole of point of Piccolo calling Goku out, Goku realizing he fucked up with that plan.


Goku SAYS IT HIMSELF that training more would be pointless,(which is proven with Vegeta and AGAIN in Super when Vegeta says even 3 years in the chamber wouldn't gain them much) you can't get around that. And you still can't provide an answer as to why he wouldn't just train Gohan more if he felt he was on the verge of a transformation and they both still had a lot to gain. Goku felt he did all he could for both of them and had to place his faith in Gohan because he was like him and loved to fight, so surely his potential would come out.

Goku isn't surprised not because he knew there was some transformation waiting for Gohan but because it was his plan all along for Gohan to unleash his hidden potential and it finally came out, he's proud/relieved/happy. None of that means he knew it would come with a transformation, it didn't have to as Gohan has exploded before with no transforming going on, the transformation was a secondary accident.


and I'll say it again, I don't even care if Goku did know about SSJ2 and that Gohan was about to reach it, the point is he felt that HE himself couldn't get any stronger.

I thought Goku saw Gohan turn ssj2 temporarily in the time chamber?
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Super Saiyan 2 is a 2x multipler. So Gohan would only be twice as strong as Cell.



And Goku usually don't carry the Senzus. Usually Krillin does. And it's still no more stupid that a normal person forgetting stuff.
SSJ2 is a extra x50 multiplier on top of the x50 regular SSJ
 

Durden77

Member
Just watched the last episode fucccckkk I hate that I have to wait to see the next one. It's like I'm a kid but worse because I'm an adult.

This saga is AWESOME. Super is sick.
 

KHlover

Banned
Eh, I think the reason Vegeta is suprised when Gohan goes SSJ2 is that Gohan actually pulled off the transformation. He should know or at least suspect that the form itself exists. In fact every Saiyan in the Cell Saga does, hence the imperfect Super Vegeta and Ascended Super Saiyan forms. Trunks thought his form already was SSJ2, but then Cell schooled him. At that point he had no idea how to reach SSJ2, then Gohan goes ahead and just does it. Boom, suprised.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
they are clearly going to stop the second wish, but not before Goku black is wished into existence. Because otherwise, that would be the lamest death of any villain in all of Dragonball if they defeated him by preventing him from existing in the first place.

Also, clearly, clearly Gohan is going to save the day.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
In the history of trunks special, aren't Roshi and oolong shown living in a submarine under water? So shouldn't roshi still be alive in Trunk's future?
 

HeroR

Member
Haven't seen a DB villain whose ass I want to see kicked as much as Zamasu's since Freeza's. Probably ever honestly. I hate the fucker.

For me it was the Future Androids after they murdered Gohan. That scene is just brutal and just want Trunks to rip their heads off.

In the grand scheme of things which villain didn't have poor motivations when you think about. They all pretty much just wanted to destroy on either instinct or by programming

Most of the villains were motivated by world or universal conquest. It wasn't until Cell and Buu that you got villains who wanted to destroy for the sake of destroying with little motive in-between. Even Frieza, as evil as he was, was at heart a businessman running a realtor scam.
 
For me it was the Future Androids after they murdered Gohan. That scene is just brutal and just want Trunks to rip their heads off.



Most of the villains were motivated by world or universal consequence. It wasn't until Cell and Buu that you got villains who wanted to destroy for the sake of destroying with little motive in-between. Even Frieza, as evil as he was, was at heart a businessman running a realtor scam.

I forgot about them. Yeah they're up there.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
In the history of trunks special, aren't Roshi and oolong shown living in a submarine under water? So shouldn't roshi still be alive in Trunk's future?

Well, that was during the history of trunks special, when future gohan was still alive, right? years passed between then and trunks's departure, they may have been killed in the meantime.
 
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