Barry Burton
Member
Excellent to see Rime score well! I had some concerns but hopefully they're all unfounded.
You're insisting the fiction in your head some how fits reality, then you say it worked out, so who cares if you spread more fake rumors about it. Maybe Sony just didn't want to deal with Indies anymore, hell they almost dropped demon souls,because Shu couldn't see the value in it; so even if they dropped it because they didn't like the games development direction, it doesn't make them some arbiter of good standards.What dumb fake rumours? What stuff are you saying I made up?
What a strange way to enter a conversation.
How so? Calendars are a thing..Many of the games mentioned should've been out by now.
Besides, on Rime, the devs have said in the Edge interview that it took them a long time, during the making of the game, to figure out where they wanted to take it. It's fine now, isn't it? It turned out okay? No need to get upset, man!
Your reaction has basically nothing to do with anything I actually said. But by all means, keep ranting about Sony while quoting me.You're insisting the fiction in your head some how fits reality, then you say it worked out, so who cares if you spread more fake rumors about it. Maybe Sony just didn't want to deal with Indies anymore, hell they almost dropped demon souls,because Shu couldn't see the value in it; so even if they dropped it because they didn't like the games development direction, it doesn't make them some arbiter of good standards.
None of them had release dates, right? and especially indie games take a long time to make depending on the devs goals and team size. It doesn't have to be in development hell just because the game isn't out by an arbitrary date decided by your imagination of how long a development cycle is.
Cool, so you have no reading comprehension for what you even write.Your reaction has basically nothing to do with anything I actually said. But by all means, keep ranting about Sony while quoting me.
Source for this? We have many others posting why this is being said, then you sayO...kay..?
I'm not talking about those rumours, though, man. I don't know what's making you so angry about the fact that some of the games mentioned were in development for a long time with issues along the way.
And yeah, saying
Is pretty damn silly and baseless. Sorry if that offends you for some reason.
Again, source for your shit? And figuring out where to take something is a common saying for creators, it doesn't mean they're in trouble, it means they're allowing their work to guide them instead of forcing it. And if edge is to be believed, it paid off.How so? Calendars are a thing..Many of the games mentioned should've been out by now.
Besides, on Rime, the devs have said in the Edge interview that it took them a long time, during the making of the game, to figure out where they wanted to take it. It's fine now, isn't it? It turned out okay? No need to get upset, man!
And then even more shitposting, thinking a small indie studio should be done with an apparently ambitious game in 3 years, when AAA games don't do that without having issues in some way.Again, calendars are a thing. Being playable in 2014 and not yet released in 2017, yes, I'm sure publishers must be thrilled with Wattam's performance. Must be my imagination.
Again, calendars are a thing. Being playable in 2014 and not yet released in 2017, yes, I'm sure publishers must be thrilled with Wattam's performance. Must be my imagination.
Calendars exist, that's true. The rest is, indeed, your imagination.
Source for what? There were nasty rumours surrounding Rime, and I'm making it clear I wasn't referring to any of those.Cool, so you have no reading comprehension for what you even write.
Source for this? We have many others posting why this is being said, then you say
It did pay off, and that's great! What 'shit' should I have a source for? The lengthy dev times on Edith and Wattam are hardly a secret. For Edith I'd say it was appropriate, though. It turned out great, too.Again, source for your shit? And figuring out where to take something is a common saying for creators, it doesn't mean they're in trouble, it means they're allowing their work to guide them instead of forcing it. And if edge is to be believed, it paid off.
What's the shitpost? I said it was playable and appeared to be near completion in 2014. I didn't say it started development in 2014.And then even more shitposting, thinking a small indie studio should be done with an apparently ambitious game in 3 years, when AAA games don't do that without having issues in some way
I think Rime might turn out way less divisive than TLG.The Last Guardian scored a 9, too. It seems Edge loves Ueda-like games.
And figuring out where to take something is a common saying for creators, it doesn't mean they're in trouble, it means they're allowing their work to guide them instead of forcing it. And if edge is to be believed, it paid off.
And then even more shitposting, thinking a small indie studio should be done with an apparently ambitious game in 3 years, when AAA games don't do that without having issues in some way.
I always thought the partial GAF hate hard on for Rime was disgusting. You would think an auteur made, emotionally driven game would be celebrated around these parts, but no, let's insult the developers and hope for the worst.
What happened is that eventually substantive new details about the game dried up, we went on radio silence for a very long, extended period of time. And then Sony drops the game, and the only rumours we heard from a reputable source was that the game was in a problematic/messy state. In the absence of anything else to discuss, and with most of us being in this hobby long enough to realize what being dropped by a publisher the size of Sony actually means (almost always it means something is wrong with the game), do you really blame anyone for assuming the worst? Nobody was filling in the dead air with anything but what these dire facts painted as a narrative.
I for one am extremely glad it turned out great, because I love the concept and I love supporting indies. But this is a discussion forum and when bad things go down it is entirely appropriate to comment on that reality whether it is perceived as "mean" or not.
Game was announced in 2013, is coming out soon, that's not some Last Guardian style wait. This is a small indie team making a narrative game. And I disagree about knowing where you're going. You always know the general direction, but narratives are always better if you take that outline and toss it as soon as you realize what you're creating doesn't necessarily follow it. And source a reputable rumor that wasn't just GAF and the internet playing telephone. And no one said anything about being mean, but if all you have is suppositions cause a game was "supposed" to be completed because you think so, then you're doing nothing but harming the reputation of the game. Again, this isn't the only game Sony has or will drop and that should never be some firm confirmation the devs were fucking up, just look at how Human Head was treated. Like you say, it's a business.I get what you're saying, but I think you're off the mark here with this specific point. Generally speaking when you're several years into development, you should definitely know where you're going and have a pretty good idea about what you're building, both indies and AAA alike. But the general consensus from those in the know were that several years into development they still weren't quite sure where they were going. That much time and it goes from merely giving an artist creative freedom to a direction in disarray, production a mess (I'm sure we'll get the full story at a later date, these things have a way of leaking out in full over the span of time).
Say whatever we will about Sony's decision on RIME (and we'll likely find the real story out years down the line), but there is always a line between being a responsible business who gives ample help to those you're investing in and when you have to cut your losses. And that line is always going to be highly up for interpretation.
Sometimes good still comes out (and I'm so glad that seems to be the case here), but Sony even has a limit for their own studios. And they are known for being ridiculously generous with the slack they give their partners. Just to emphasize this point, they invested a shitload in Last Guardian, a niche product that was clearly in development hell for many years. But because Ueda had a track record as well as the so-called "Olympic Team", they let them keep going and going. In the case of RIME it was still years, but Tequila does not have the proven track record Ueda and his team does. So it doesn't surprise me Sony gave Tequila less slack.
Sony still invests in indies, promotes them, gets console first exclusives. If anything has changed recently, it's that I don't think they want to again get stuck with a "No Man's Sky" situation where despite giving Hello Games tons of freedom and treating their game like first party royalty, the game still got delayed frequently and still released in a very sloppy state. They took some of the heat for that, whether right or wrong. It was a major release and people associated it with Sony for how heavily they promoted it, so there was some backlash there.
In any event, I'm glad it seems that in the case of RIME it turned out good. A cool blend of Studio Ghibli and Team ICO? What could go wrong?
My PS4/PC is ready and waiting.
GAF is not a hivemind, in full or in part. So never a good way to make a point.
With that in mind, I don't even think your characterization is true. Look at the unveiling topics and GDC/Gamescom threads for RIME. The reception was overwhelmingly positive, despite the fact the developer had a questionable track record in terms of quality releases. They came out with an attractive art direction, an evocative concept and waved around the appropriate comparison buzz words. From all I can track, if there was indeed any "general consensus" at all, it was that RIME looked quite good when revealed. Despite the crying from the developer (which is always unfortunate, but being able to take criticism is a key quality in life), GAF was pretty high on the game.
What happened is that eventually substantive new details about the game dried up, we went on radio silence for a very long, extended period of time. And then Sony drops the game, and the only rumours we heard from a reputable source was that the game was in a problematic/messy state. In the absence of anything else to discuss, and with most of us being in this hobby long enough to realize what being dropped by a publisher the size of Sony actually means (almost always it means something is wrong with the game), do you really blame anyone for assuming the worst? Nobody was filling in the dead air with anything but what these dire facts painted as a narrative.
I for one am extremely glad it turned out great, because I love the concept and I love supporting indies. But this is a discussion forum and when bad things go down it is entirely appropriate to comment on that reality whether it is perceived as "mean" or not.
Well, there's no tangible basis on which to conclude or even presume the founder/CEO/creative director of Tequila Works is lying, but if you'd rather put more stock in lherre's word, then that is of course your prerogative.
People really shouldn't take Sony's involvement with a 3rd party game as any indication of games quality.
Well considering that the "reputable source" directly attacked people (the CEO in special) of the studio and in the end that was apparently bullshit, you have to wonder how reputable these sources really are and if a discussion around fake speculations are something that are actually worth it (these discussions being around a once exclusive game, which always brings the worst in gaming forums)
I agree that being able to take criticism is a key quality of life. Not the criticism that was thrown around during those discussions, though. Fuck that.
So at what point do we take someone's word over the other? Especially when one is only really known to mods. And those rumors still leave Sony in a bad light. Either the game was nothing and they created a world beater in a year, making Sony an even worse judge of developers quality, or more likely, Sony saw how good the game was looking and wanted the IP, and once turned down, dropped funding. Don't get why a standard practice of the industry is now hard to believe.lherre's tag says it all: accurate.
Is 20+ minutes of Rime enough?Am actually shocked for the Rime review, imma need some more clips of gameplay pls.
Even then, it's putting stock in lherre's source. Sometimes the source is wrong or lying.
Is it because Mangod left? Shane plz come backThey also dropped Edith Finch, the other 9 scoring game. They're getting out of the indie publishing business for the most part.
Rime - 9
Everything about this thread makes me smile.
I'm glad Rime reviewed well, any info on the Switch release date ?
Because that makes no sense. Plus at the time I believe "the game" was merely a mock up trailer. Couple that with a rocky development and it's not really a surprise they dropped it.
The good thing is there's a happy ending.
Game was announced in 2013, is coming out soon, that's not some Last Guardian style wait. This is a small indie team making a narrative game.
And I disagree about knowing where you're going. You always know the general direction, but narratives are always better if you take that outline and toss it as soon as you realize what you're creating doesn't necessarily follow it.
And source a reputable rumor that wasn't just GAF and the internet playing telephone.
And no one said anything about being mean, but if all you have is suppositions cause a game was "supposed" to be completed because you think so, then you're doing nothing but harming the reputation of the game. Again, this isn't the only game Sony has or will drop and that should never be some firm confirmation the devs were fucking up, just look at how Human Head was treated. Like you say, it's a business.
Everything about this thread makes me smile.
Congrats on the first great review, here's hoping for plenty more!
I think Rime might turn out way less divisive than TLG.
EDGE is usually a pretty good omen. It's rare when I see EDGE score something high that doesn't get at least a decent metacritic score.
Can you think of the last time that happened? I can think of games EDGE didn't like that got high metacritic scores, but not the other way around.
Wouldnt it be crazy if Rime actually gets higher reviews than TLG?
Wouldnt it be crazy if Rime actually gets higher reviews than TLG?