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ESPN: "Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart"
- Thread starter chadskin
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I get what he's doing, but read his other posts, dude is legit upset lol.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Dozens of witnesses, ex-employees (including assistant coaches), and others close to the story come forward under conditions of anonymity (which is a real thing people ask for when spilling the truth if doing so will affect their job and/or relationships). Pats fans ignore all of this because it's just ESPN lying and making up bullshit to somehow help the NFL, when the story actually makes the NFL look completely inept (not to mention the fact that, if this shit were false, Brady, Belichick, and Kraft could sue the shit out of ESPN for libel). But somehow, all this smoke points to no fire. It only points to people making up stories about a fire for literally no reason.
Okay Pats fans. Enjoy those asterisks--I mean, championships. Hardware is the only thing that counts, no matter how you got your hands on it. Just ask Lance Armstrong.
Okay Pats fans. Enjoy those asterisks--I mean, championships. Hardware is the only thing that counts, no matter how you got your hands on it. Just ask Lance Armstrong.
I'd have to disagree with you on this. I can't imagine breaking into opponents locker-rooms, hotels etc is so common place that teams are covering each other's back. You are suggesting this is a league wide scandal that has been kept quiet for many, many years. I am skeptical.
This allegation against the Patriots is huge. If true this is much more significant than spygate and deflategate. Stealing play-sheets isn't just cheating it is also a crime (i.e. breaking into hotels etc), and makes spygate and deflategate look childish in comparison, though atleast for those incidents we had actual evidence, even though it may have been weak. The fact that this accusation was just dropped in a 10,000 word article and nothing more is known about it is concerning. Who are the sources, why are we only hearing about it now, why weren't these concerns addressed before.
You make a good point here, though my guess would be that the allegation of taping practises/walk-throughs was in relation to spygate which is why that was addressed. The accusation of play-sheet stealing is probably treated like all other allegation (locker-room bugs, headset tampering etc) as sour grapes.
No one's ignoring anything about Spygate. People acknowledge it. Many have in this thread, including myself. Stop addressing this fictional group of people in an effort to paint a real group of people as ridiculous. It's absurd.
I legit don't really care about the NFL.
Could have fooled me.
I mean I want to. But Goodell and the various NFL franchises, players, fans make it pretty goddamn hard to take it seriously. Once upon a time I cared about soccer/football as well.
Big Baybee
Member
Tragicomedy
Member
These threads always go the same way. Pats fans respond to documented cheating and truckloads of evidence with, "But we win."
Yeah, but you win by cheating. "But we win."
There's no point for Sane GAF to pursue reasoning.
Yeah, but you win by cheating. "But we win."
There's no point for Sane GAF to pursue reasoning.
Your use of truckloads of evidence is laughable. The only truckloads of anything in these threads is salt from people wishing they could win like the Pats. If there were truckloads of evidence, Brady would be kicked out of the league and championships vacated. The evidence you think is there, is not there and most likely never existed. You are not a member of sane GAF if you read this article and come awat with truckloads of evidence.
Tragicomedy
Member
This had to be intentional or you are the embodiment of who I described. "But we win." Laughable.
I dunno, maybe the 90 something sources consulted for this investigation that share the same picture count as evidence. They certainly aren't helping out the NFL as Pats fans are arguing. It makes the league look like shit. Goodell covered for Kraft to the point of destroying evidence a senator wanted.
Keep cheating, keep winning. It's not like anything will happen.
BaltimoreLarry
Member
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
The difference? Pats cut Hernandez.
The difference? One was innocent.
As a Pats fan, you should understand what it's like better than anybody. You watch a player on your team, and not just any player, the most iconic player in your team's history, be accused of a crime. Everyone judges them before the facts come to light and they are exonerated of all wrong doing. Yet the public still judges them as if they are guilty and they are stigmatized forevermore. I get it. It's the same.
Ray's a murderer just like Brady's a cheater.
It has to be true. Say it, Pats fans.
Say it.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
Is that Ray Lewis in your avatar? just was curious to know. If so and you are a fan why represent him that way? why not have a avatar of him in a Ravens jersey instead of the state or county jail jumpsuit.
I applaud ESPN for reminding everyone that true justice was not served for all of the Patriots' Spygate transgressions.
Bravo, ESPN. You finally found a moral compass.
BaltimoreLarry
Member
It is, and that is a Patriots logo in yours so I can only assume that you support Tom Brady's innocence and thus by the BaltimoreLarry transitive property, also support Ray Lewis' innocence.
It represents what is, arguably, his greatest triumph. Justice was served.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
Gotcha, you are coming at the wrong guy I am not for slandering guys by posting pics of them being at there lowest of low points in life. I understand where you are coming from now, thanks for the explanation.
I'll be honest I haven't read enough on Ray's case to judge, but the whole Herny thing is a stupid knock on the pats, which only proves the argument of pats hate even more. A lot of people questioned him at the draft, but I sincerely doubt anybody believed he was a complete psycho.
Edit- I also get you're trolling we've already been through this.
90 something sources and not ONE put a name to it? Uh huh.
Sources .... Chris Carter, Mark Brunell, Kurt Warner, Roger Goodell, Pash ...
Some "low level" employee? Why does TMZ not pay them 100,000 to talk? Because there is none.
How about the coach who leaves his 20 play sheet out in the open in a locker room, unattended give their name, and when it happened? Why was no camera set up inside the locker room so they could say "See!!!!?"
Why have no bugs ever been found even though they constantly "sweep" the locker rooms??
Why has no one tested the Gateraid to see if it is cold before accepting it!
I heard from 998363 anonymous sources that the reason the Gatoraid was late to opposing teams sideline was because the Patriots put extra sugar in so that the team would have a sugar low right after half time!
This is amazing to witness. The level of cognitive dissonance on display here is fascinating. Just keep begging the question away old chap. Just keep begging that question away.
No one is ignoring it except for those that clearly are. See above for instance.
Who said I said spygate did not happen? They said it did and they owned up to it "chap."
They filmed after all teams were told to stop. They filmed from the sideline which was legal one year earlier, but they still did it. They got hit with a fine/draft picks, stated that they did it and moved on.
It is you ... "chap" who has not moved on.
This isn't about moving on, it's about trying to rationalize away a growing stable of sources that have come forward to give further clarification on just how structurally fucked up and dishonest your organization was. Along with Gooddell and the NFL. And some of you pats fans trying to hand wave away any and all allegations with absurdly stupid logic.
If you want to presume all of these anonymous sources and ESPN are just fabricating shit for(ratings I guess?) then more power to you. But don't get upset when people call out the gymnastics of rationalization you are using to justify it and laugh at how transparent it is.
So your idea of "transparent" is when the NFL released to ESPN (Mort and King) false numbers about football PSI, which the Patriots (in emails released publicly) was asking the NFL to correct (for months!) and they did not ..... that is transparent?
How is it "transparent" with anonymous sources? 90?! Not ONE put a name to it? Not a single one?!
How "transparent" is it when both CNNSI and ESPN come out with 10K articles (overlapping content) on the same day (which has no real new information other than Goodell altering a statement to save his hide), within the same hour at the same time Goodell is on Mike and Mike?
Do you know why people in this situation wouldn't put their names out there? Just think for two seconds instead of getting all hopped up and angry. Because of Irrational fans and job security. Fans that are looking for any angle to discredit allegations until they literally have no room to maneuver. Whatever name gets out there would probably have about 10 minutes until they have harassment, death threats and attempts at character assassination for their foreseeable future. Organizationally their career is over. No team would want a "rat" even though they are doing the right thing. We have whistleblower protections both in law and journalism for a reason.
Did you doubt watergate too until deep throat revealed himself near death?
I'm not saying these newer allegations are for sure 100% true but the way you and others act like there is no way even 1% of it could possibly be true because of these poor rationalizations is downright pathetic. It's transparent in that the only people you see going to such lengths to dismiss these allegations are Pats fans. The rest of the rational world reads this and says "hmm, well, this team has a shady past, we know there was always more to the story, ESPN isn't always the most credible but they are also pretty connected and there is a lot of fucking smoke here."
teruterubozu
Member
Watergate? Wow lol. It's already called Deflategate, no need for more overblown gates.
I live in boston. There is nothibg fictional about this group of people.
Eric Mangini for one. He had another job, he never had these issues. So of the 90 people, all of them still work for the Patriots or live in the area? How about the tons of ex-coaches? Dan Peeves, Nick Saban, Charlie Weiss, RAC? Ex-players? Especially the ones who hate the Patriots. Seymore, Vrabel, Lawyer Milloy?
You have NO idea (I don't think) what Dan Shaunassy and especially Ron Borges (local, but extremely well connected sports reporters) would do to tear the Patriots (Belichick) apart.
If I am going to damn someone I want something called evidence. I gave you many reasons to question the information. I want a name. All I got is a bunch of "owners" who feel snubbed by the taping innocent and the fact that the NFL is giving a "make-up call" in regards to a couple of balls barely underinflated.
Are you saying Watergate was overblown ha?
You gave me ZERO reasons to question the evidence. Testimony, even anonymous, is evidence. Perhaps the allegations turn out to be completely fabricated but there is a lot of smoke here.
Your reasoning has been fallacious and rationalizing, nothing more. The fact you can't see that just makes me recognize the futility of this conversation. A person that thinks begging the question is a retort and can't even muster the courage to admit the possibility of further wrongdoing isn't really worth the continued trouble.
You're right. Ya got me! Not much I can contradict from such unimpeachable evidence!
Lol not saying youre one of them. But youve lost all credibilty in my mind if you dont believe there exists a group of people who deny spygate happened.
Of course you can not. There is no evidence. That is the point,. Once again, if they gave names and real evidence I could say they did it. There is none, so why would I now? The last reports I got from ESPN were all false, thanks Mort. I was ready to label them for it to. But you know what? After reading the reports (all of them), all the documents you realize how incomplete everything was. The assumptions within were asinine. You saw the colossal switch of opinion in reporters and lawyers who READ the documents.
The one guy championing the NFL case in court was Lester Munson from ESPN who still to this day will not let it go. Should I believe a lawyer who was debarred? Isn't that the same position you are taking with not believe the Patriots? At least the Patriots owned up to their illegal actions.
The only time they had done something illegal (caught), they SAID they did. They owned up and they paid for it.
People still get the whole taping innocent wrong. There were no walk-throughs or practices filmed. It was from a spot that was legal a year before and in a stadium with 80,000 people. It is the same practice that Jones said they tried but they stopped because there was no advantage to it that they could see (before the memo was released of course). Of a 10K document just released by ESPN which has taken "4 months" to write (start of the deflated balls time ... good job NFL) over 9K was dealing with something we already knew and was payed for in a draft pick.
I have never met a Pats fan who denies Spygate happened. What exactly would they be denying? It was widely reported.
Same here. Actually most people here know exactly what spy gate entailed, unlike 95% of the public outside of the area.
Ill have to introduce you to some of my friends
That's okay.
Yeah, that's cute, now find the ones in this thread who aren't make-believe.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Oh ok.
90 sources corroborating various parts of this narrative is not nothing.
Quit making yourself look silly. I get it, you love your Pats and until someone shows you bloody hands you will deny til the day you die. The rest of us will act more rational with this information.
But don't try and pretend all of this is nothing. It's not. The issue people like me take with Pats fans like you is that you are unwilling to even entertain reasonable possibilities that have support if the conclusion can be negative. Which is where the cognitive dissonance charge comes from.
Nah whats cute is your stubborn "seeing is believing" mentality. He said no one ingores spygate. I know some people who do. Dont believe me? No sweat off my back bud.
Roberto Duran
Member
I don't know where to put this in all the 10000 Patriots/Brady threads, but the Patriots are trying to get McNally and Jastremski reinstated:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...sted-reinstatement-of-jastremski-and-mcnally/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...sted-reinstatement-of-jastremski-and-mcnally/
Junior Asparagus
Member
After how the deflating issue was handled by ESPN, I just find it really hard to believe their so-called sources. If there were names attributed to the quotes, then sure, I'd believe it. But it's been proven that they misreported a ton of stuff having to do with the last case, so it's crazy to think that everyone just believes them now. 90 sources and not one of them wants to put their name on anything?
Irrational fans? Job security? From what the article says, it seems like these other teams would be even more inclined to give these people jobs since no one else is defending the Pats.
No wonder no one else can beat the Pats. They're spending their time being preoccupied with all this other stuff.
Irrational fans? Job security? From what the article says, it seems like these other teams would be even more inclined to give these people jobs since no one else is defending the Pats.
No wonder no one else can beat the Pats. They're spending their time being preoccupied with all this other stuff.
No one denies the patriots videotaped signals from the sideline. You're either lying or failing to understand whatever these people were telling you. It's certainly not commonly held and in fact I've never heard anyone say something like that. It's always, at most, the clarification that there were no walkthroughs taped and that early reports were false. I can almost guarantee this is what you heard.
So no one then.
DoktorEvil
Banned
It helps that SI also published their own article denouncing the NFL and Pats.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/08/patriots-cheating-suspicions-bill-belichick-tom-brady
They also are quick to trash Goodell.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/08/ro...e-nfl-commissioner-discipline-power-tom-brady
Don't be silly. In an ultra competitive, ultra "good ole boys" business, "rats" are not going to get huge promotions. Some talent at the top of the hierarchy might have the capital to come out publicly and still find employment but the lower level guys? Why would any of them risk it? Would you? Be honest. Because I certainly wouldn't come out publicly. I'd go anonymous and shield myself with whistleblower laws.
So what is your implication? ESPN is just straight making this up? All of it?
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