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Fighting Games Weekly | July 27 - Aug 2 | Beta luck next time

M

Mr. X

Member
vocab said:
I'm completely fine with SFV being basic. I think the bigger worry is there going to be any sort of depth? Will there even be anything that warrants a skill gap outside of fighting game fundamentals? Street Fighter at its core was never about parries or supers. However, we just expect more from a fighting game in 2015-2016. Worst case scenario, SFV will be a game you can pick up, and enjoy, but you'll go back to other fighting games because they have more to it.
Click to expand...
The v-skill and trigger are those gimmick systems.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
I'm honestly interested in seeing if CvSNK 2 can make a comeback in major FGC, although the chances of a proper release on Steam, etc. is very unlikely.
I mainly want to see it comeback just to see what the reaction to it will be :p
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Tizoc said:
I'm honestly interested in seeing if CvSNK 2 can make a comeback in major FGC, although the chances of a proper release on Steam, etc. is very unlikely.
I mainly want to see it comeback just to see what the reaction to it will be :p
Click to expand...
It will go over very poorly with the current crop of stream monsters that's for sure.

A game like CvS2 can't really survive in the current fighting game generation for long.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Dahbomb said:
It will go over very poorly with the current crop of stream monsters that's for sure.

A game like CvS2 can't really survive in the current fighting game generation for long.
Click to expand...

My sentiments too but you know what? I wanna actually see that happen :p
 
Kalamari

Kalamari

Member
Gamers always tend to view new games through rose colored glasses. I am sure most people will feel differently about SFV 3 months after its release.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Kalamari said:
Gamers always tend to view new games through rose colored glasses. I am sure most people will feel differently about SFV 3 months after it's release.
Click to expand...
I think that rose tinted glasses expression is used for older games (like ST or 3rd Strike for example).

Though there is certainly a hype factor with new games and a certain level of "they will get it right this time, it will be amazing!"
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
vocab said:
I'm completely fine with SFV being basic. I think the bigger worry is there going to be any sort of depth? Will there even be anything that warrants a skill gap outside of fighting game fundamentals? Street Fighter at its core was never about parries or supers. However, we just expect more from a fighting game in 2015-2016. Worst case scenario, SFV will be a game you can pick up, and enjoy, but you'll go back to other fighting games because they have more to it.
Click to expand...
The V-Gauge requires everything that was required of you to manage the Revenge Gauge, plus about 3 more layers of depth on top of that (specific move utilization a-la focus attack to manage a second meter, greater specificity in that meter' usage (different & more bar costs), that meter's usage having way more diverse uses).

That's also what makes it impressive. Even with the loss of Focus Attacks, they've retained all of the contributions it has to the mindgames, added greater specificity to those, and removed the downsides that system had for much of the cast, in the neutral and beginners. To boot, the system isn't that complicated to understand as even a FADC. It's like a win-win-win-win.
 
K

kobu

Member
vocab said:
I'm completely fine with SFV being basic. I think the bigger worry is there going to be any sort of depth? Will there even be anything that warrants a skill gap outside of fighting game fundamentals? Street Fighter at its core was never about parries or supers. However, we just expect more from a fighting game in 2015-2016. Worst case scenario, SFV will be a game you can pick up, and enjoy, but you'll go back to other fighting games because they have more to it.
Click to expand...

What have you seen in sf5 that makes you think it won't have depth? What do parries, supers and focus attacks add that v-trigger and v-skill wont?
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
I have no interest in Rising Thunder because I don't like anything with giant robots in it.

And I know that's dumb as hell but I can't get past it.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Dahbomb said:
It will go over very poorly with the current crop of stream monsters that's for sure.

A game like CvS2 can't really survive in the current fighting game generation for long.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not without adjustments to the game in some fashion. I love CvS2, played it like nuts in tourneys when it was released, but it's just not a great competitive game in the state we got it in lol
 
notworksafe

notworksafe

Member
SamVimes said:
Also cvs2 was considered much better than 3rd strike (the game that almost made daigo quit fighting games) by many people at the time already, SFxT has been considered ass ever since a couple of months after the release.
Click to expand...

Eh? CvS2 landed like a turd. That game didn't get really popular competitively until roll canceling was discovered.

E: I guess technically it never got really popular. But you know what I mean.
 
S

SamVimes

Member
notworksafe said:
Eh? CvS2 landed like a turd. That game didn't get really popular competitively until roll canceling was discovered.

E: I guess technically it never got really popular. But you know what I mean.
Click to expand...
I don't mean it was super cool from the start, but it grew on people a lot.
Professor Beef said:
CvS2 now would go over like a fart in church. A-Groove in particular.
Click to expand...

What, you don't like SHOSHOSHOSHOSHOSHOSHO?
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
SamVimes said:
Also cvs2 was considered much better than 3rd strike (the game that almost made daigo quit fighting games) by many people at the time already, SFxT has been considered ass ever since a couple of months after the release.
Click to expand...
Did sf3 really almost make daigo quit fighting games? Or maybe he was just getting blown up like when he quit gg because it was too hard to keep up with the good players :p
 
hitsugi

hitsugi

Member
CVS2 is an incredible game, but it had its time. I would love to see it on Steam but can't imagine online play being worthwhile due to a certain mechanic likely not working out well.
 
S

SamVimes

Member
QisTopTier said:
Did sf3 really almost make daigo quit fighting games? Or maybe he was just getting blown up like when he quit gg because it was too hard to keep up with the good players :p
Click to expand...

He consistently placed really well until he stopped caring, although i heard he was carried by Nuki for his sbo win.
 
J

jerry1594

Member
QisTopTier said:
Did sf3 really almost make daigo quit fighting games? Or maybe he was just getting blown up like when he quit gg because it was too hard to keep up with the good players :p
Click to expand...
From what I remember reading by him "after he became the best" at third strike he became bored by fighters and quit. He started playing Go for a while until someone took him to an arcade.

I'd love to see CvS2 come back. If only for the stream monsters to die off when it's on and maybe Ricki could finally win evo.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
QisTopTier said:
Did sf3 really almost make daigo quit fighting games? Or maybe he was just getting blown up like when he quit gg because it was too hard to keep up with the good players :p
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure he stopped caring in 05. At least that's what all the interviews point to. Nuki himself said that Daigo stopped after the SBO win and even during SBO Nuki said Daigo's only job was to take out any Yun, though he lied in the documentary when they asked him how prepared Daigo was. I'll have to go back and watch that on nico nico to be sure, but Nuki did his own commentary over the documentary.
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
SamVimes said:
He consistently placed really well until he stopped caring, although i heard he was carried by Nuki for his sbo win.
Click to expand...

Pizarro said:
From what I remember reading by him "after he became the best" at third strike he became bored by fighters and quit. He started playing Go for a while until someone took him to an arcade.

.
Click to expand...

Ah so the opposite. Doesn't sound like it was the game's fault though.
 
K

kirblar

Member
vocab said:
I'm completely fine with SFV being basic. I think the bigger worry is there going to be any sort of depth? Will there even be anything that warrants a skill gap outside of fighting game fundamentals? Street Fighter at its core was never about parries or supers. However, we just expect more from a fighting game in 2015-2016. Worst case scenario, SFV will be a game you can pick up, and enjoy, but you'll go back to other fighting games because they have more to it.
Click to expand...
This is where I hope Matt Dahlgren's big-ass grin re: future titles isn't due to Rival Schools.
 
J

jerry1594

Member
QisTopTier said:
Ah so the opposite. Doesn't sound like it was the game's fault though.
Click to expand...
I can see it being the game's fault. It doesn't allow him to play the way he likes to play, and with that being the current SF at the time with no new one in sight I would imagine he wouldn't want to keep playing.
 
notworksafe

notworksafe

Member
2n2 said:
I never really followed competitive CvS2. Why would it not go over well today?
Click to expand...

Roll canceling being required knowledge to be good and most grooves being hot trash (including my favorite, S-groove). Also it's quite slow, even at high level. It has very strict tiers as well. There's an S++ tier and then everyone else. There's also an F- tier as well, heh.

Personally I think it's a very good game in spite of all of this, but today's FG player wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole and 1500 posts on Capcom's board demanding patches.
 
S

SamVimes

Member
notworksafe said:
Roll canceling being required knowledge to be good and most grooves being hot trash (including my favorite, S-groove). Also it's quite slow, even at high level. It has very strict tiers as well. There's an S++ tier and then everyone else. There's also an F- tier as well, heh.

Personally I think it's a very good game in spite of all of this, but today's FG player wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole and 1500 posts on Capcom's board demanding patches.
Click to expand...

I think people are against kneejerk patches, a well done rebalancing on a 15 years old game (which as fun as it is is imbalanced as hell) would hardly be considered unnecessary and it could do nothing but improve the game.
 
E

ElTopo

Banned
kirblar said:
CvS2's big issue is the time/pacing.
Click to expand...

The big issue are dudes who don't adapt and judge everything by what they see on Youtube in old tournament videos and what they read on messageboards.


notworksafe said:
Roll canceling being required knowledge to be good and most grooves being hot trash (including my favorite, S-groove). Also it's quite slow, even at high level. It has very strict tiers as well. There's an S++ tier and then everyone else. There's also an F- tier as well, heh.

Personally I think it's a very good game in spite of all of this, but today's FG player wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole and 1500 posts on Capcom's board demanding patches.
Click to expand...

Roll Cancelling wasn't an end-all be-all kind of thing. It just made specials have startup invincibility, that's it. It didn't make them magically safe on block or anything like that. Roll Cancels just meant that you could get through fireball zoning and made Oki a little more interesting, it also benefited charge characters more than anyone else because it was easier to pull off with them.
 
N

NEO0MJ

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
I don't care for robot animes but the game looks fun so I don't mind
Click to expand...

Not being your thing is something, but refusing to touch them is something else. It's not like they're thousand year old dragons in the form of 8 year olds.

SamVimes said:
I think people are against kneejerk patches, a well done rebalancing on a 15 years old game (which as fun as it is is imbalanced as hell) would hardly be considered unnecessary and it could do nothing but improve the game.
Click to expand...

Didn't people react negatively to Sirlin's attempt at rebalancing SF II with HD remix?
 
V

vg260

Member
SamVimes said:
I think people are against kneejerk patches, a well done rebalancing on a 15 years old game (which as fun as it is is imbalanced as hell) would hardly be considered unnecessary and it could do nothing but improve the game.
Click to expand...

I feel like for old games, the market probably isn't there in general to warrant the effort, and could split what is there.
 
notworksafe

notworksafe

Member
ElTopo said:
Roll Cancelling wasn't an end-all be-all kind of thing. It just made specials have startup invincibility, that's it. It didn't make them magically safe on block or anything like that. Roll Cancels just meant that you could get through fireball zoning and made Oki a little more interesting, it also benefited charge characters more than anyone else because it was easier to pull off with them.
Click to expand...

Correct, but if you wanted to be good competitively it helped to play characters that benefited from it the most. Blanka and Bison especially. Yes there were players that could kill it with mid-tiers like Kim and Joe etc but playing with the real good characters felt like a different game, at least to me.

I love me some S Cammy and K Honda though. Tons of fun to use the SNK grooves in that game
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
You're naive if you think time/pacing wasn't an issue with CvS2. I like the game, but not enough to sit through hours of Grand Finals.

And HDR's rebalancing was OK in certain areas, but fucking ridiculous in others. Honda's headbutt destroying fireballs? Guile's roundhouse Flash Kick? Akuma? Fuck outta here.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
notworksafe said:
Correct, but if you wanted to be good competitively it helped to play characters that benefited from it the most. Blanka and Bison especially. Yes there were players that could kill it with mid-tiers like Kim and Joe etc but playing with the real good characters felt like a different game, at least to me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was necessary if you wanted to be competitive in the game and that was in addition to the super stratified tiers, IMO. It was an additional hurdle and just more frustrating to play as a result. It's a bit sad because I think they nailed it overall but the balance really could have benefited from a few revisions. Poor SNK chars. ;_;
 
G

GeoNeo

I disagree.
Shouta said:
Yeah, it was necessary if you wanted to be competitive in the game and that was in addition to the super stratified tiers, IMO. It was an additional hurdle and just more frustrating to play as a result. It's a bit sad because I think they nailed it overall but the balance really could have benefited from a few revisions. Poor SNK chars. ;_;
Click to expand...

They removed RC from Xbox version no one gave a fuck. People loved that shit.

Also, Alpha 3 got revision where crouch cancel infs were removed yet people kept playing old version. Lol.

Same with Alpha 2 Gold people did not care for them fixing the balance.

Overall the changes for CVS2 EO were pretty cool but arcade players did not care for it.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox/562243-capcom-vs-snk-2-eo/faqs/45388
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
Shouta said:
Yeah, it was necessary if you wanted to be competitive in the game and that was in addition to the super stratified tiers, IMO. It was an additional hurdle and just more frustrating to play as a result. It's a bit sad because I think they nailed it overall but the balance really could have benefited from a few revisions. Poor SNK chars. ;_;
Click to expand...

If they ask for a person's Shiagari 仕上がり, do they mean if they completed their practice goals in the context of fighting games before a tournament?
 
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