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Final Fantasy XIII Post-Game Impressions

Cedille

Member
H_Prestige said:
I actually wished the entire place was even more expansive.

Actually, Rabanastre was even much bigger during the development. As it was too vast, it got reduced to the current scale. I think the decision was right, but that city was still a bit too huge for an offline game.

[quote/]Of course, art direction is just as important as scale. If the environments and cities and people were realistic and boring like in wrpgs, I wouldn't be motivated to explore. But in most FF games I feel the art direction is really superb. Places like Lindblum, Archades, Treno, Alexandria, and Midgar, just to name a few, are truly fantasy settings and feel like they came from someone's dream rather than reality. [/QUOTE]

I agree, but I was diaspponited by how Archades was actualized in the game. Compared to the original art work of Kamikokuryo that was incredible, the last gen wasn't strong enough to actualize his worlds. FFXIII, on the other hand, did lots better.
 

rataven

Member
I've really enjoyed reading everyone's impressions. Thanks for writing them up.

I've been carefully following the game in this thread and the import thread, and my feelings and excitement levels have had more peaks and valleys than any roller coaster. After giving it some thought and thinking about my favorite FFs, the components I like most are usually the characters and battle system, where it sounds like XIII excels. I'm back to full hype levels. Can't wait for March.
 
All I know of this game I read in this thread and a GameFAQ's thread. Haven't played it. But I'm quite shocked. No world map? No armor/weapon shops or inns? Only 3 towns? Nothing but battles and cut scenes? Regaining all lost health after battle, no MP, no Exp. points? Non-turn based battles? You only control one character in battle and can't change characters mid-battle?

Quite shocking Square would go this route. I was angry when they took out world maps in FF X, but this is on a whole new level.

I was gonna buy this day one in March. I'm now not so sure.




A level cap?
 
I've played about 75hrs now. This is my review


Graphics 10/10
One of the best looking games of this generation-- if not overall the best. But it’s not really even a technical show piece, as much as it is an art show piece. More technically advanced games have come out this year for sure. But this is one of those extremely rare cases where the art work is so damn good, it is the art itself blowing your mind, not the technology. Many of the techniques they are using are actually last gen when you scrutinize them closely. But it is polished to such a high level. Even basic things like skyboxes and 2D backgrounds will blow your socks off with just how stunning they are. Visually this is truly the work of master craftsmen.

Sound/Music 8/10
Very good music overall. My only problem with the music is that considering the OST for this game is on 6 CDs, when actually playing the game you feel like you hear a certain small number of songs way too often. And this leads to some annoyances. For example, when you ride a chochobo, you always hear the same song. The first time you hear it, it is awesome! The next 6 times, it still quite good. After a dozen times, starts to lose its welcome. And after 20+ times it starts to get pretty irritating. The same can be said for certain battle music you hear a disproportionate number of times.

I’ve heard some people say the sound design in this game is very good. But I personally thought it was average for a next gen game. And definitely below average for a AAA game. It’s not a MGS4 or Uncharted2 or even a Batman for me. It’s just functional and mostly works. But the attention to detail here (or lack of it) never seems to be able to keep up with the visual design. But I can forgive them somewhat, since the number of environments and the length of this game makes sounds design a much larger task than most other AAA game.

Gameplay 8/10
Fastest paced Final Fantasy Ever! People who normally prefer action games over RPGs (like me) will likely love this game more than people who only play RPGs. Intensity is not a word I would have used to describe a FF game in the past. But that is what this one revels in at times.

I love how all characters and monsters attack at the same time. There is no waiting around for one character to complete their turn before taking the next action. In many cases you are having to keep an eye on what all 3 player characters are doing at the same time, plus keep track of what the enemy, or enemies, are doing. This might sound like a headache, but you get used to it. Until you do get used to it, prepare to die a lot. Close attention needs to be paid to all your characters gauges at all times. Not just your 1 selected playable one. Or you will be left with the game over screen thinking “wtf happened.”

There is some weakness with the way damage is shown on screen unfortunately. I agree with the Famitsu reviewer who said that it is too confusing to understand what is going on at times during combat. Like which player did what damage etc. You learn to get a feel for it. But I think the end game stuff magnifies the problems even more. It can start to look very confusing with huge damage numbers on screen. They might have made some sacrifices with the UI to make this playable at SD resolutions. I don’t know. But it’s just a minor complaint.

The 6 optima roles really make for interesting play variations. In the first 20 hours of the game they do force you into certain player combinations. So you will learn how to use each role and what their strengths and weaknesses are. It’s not until the later half of the game that you can start taking advantages of the best combinations of all 6 roles.

If only this game had NG+ that I could play through with my leveled up characters, beefed up enemies to battle, and new items to acquire. This game would be a perfect 10 for me in the game play department.


Story 8/10
The story succeeds in it purpose as a vehicle to take you to some of the most amazing set pieces I have ever seen. And also to show you some of the most eyeball popping, mouth watering, delicious CG cut scenes I have ever seen either film or games. Very satisfying to watch the story go down, even if you don't fully understand what the hell happened.

The story is fairly cliché. But the story telling itself is quite good. And there isn’t too much exposition in the dialog. Some might even complain there is not enough. There are some holes in the story, and several things are left unexplained. But to me, that is a hallmark of good sifi/fantasy; having holes you care enough about wanting to fill.

One not so minor annoyance for me: too many difficult to pronounce/remember French sounding words and names! Maybe they will change this for the English release. I don’t hate the French language or anything. It is just not something I am used to reading or hearing; And it made it harder than necessary to remember key names/places/people.


Characters 8/10
The game has characters that grow along with you as you play it. And that is what I look for in an RPG. Every character grows or changes in some way over the course of the game. And that is fun to see. Some not so much as others-- but at least they put some effort into this aspect of character development.

The animations for the characters really help define who they are. We have reached the point where game characters can successfully communicate to the player with body language and not just words. Just by watching them move or even stand in their idle animations, we learn so much about them. Body language is so perfectly used here in both subtle and obvious ways. People talk about how great the characters in FF7 were. But seriously, they were glorified bobble heads spouting text bubbles of badly translated dialog. Anything personable, identifiable as human about those characters people just interpolated in their own minds.

This is as the closest FF has ever come to creating real human characters in my opinion. Whether or not people will actually take to the characters or like them is another story.


Overall 9/10
Some people will be put off by how linear and narrative driven this game is, but I personally wouldn’t understand why. For me it hits a sweet spot between JRPG and Action game. I think anyone who goes in with the right expectations you will have a really good time with this game. And I don’t have a problem strongly recommending this title to anyone. But specifically if you are a graphics whore (like me) and have a 1080p TV you HAVE to play this game. This visuals in this game are simply too good to pass up for any minor issue it might have.
 
SlipperySlope said:
All I know of this game I read in this thread and a GameFAQ's thread. Haven't played it. But I'm quite shocked. No world map? No armor/weapon shops or inns? Only 3 towns? Nothing but battles and cut scenes? Regaining all lost health after battle, no MP, no Exp. points? Non-turn based battles? You only control one character in battle and can't change characters mid-battle?

Quite shocking Square would go this route. I was angry when they took out world maps in FF X, but this is on a whole new level.

I was gonna buy this day one in March. I'm now not so sure.




A level cap?
They should've just made this game into a action game then. I'm mean from all the impressions I'm reading it sounds like a non-traditional FF game or JRPG to begin with. I'm still going to check the game out via rental, but I'm not spending 59.99$ for a FF game that doesn't have the basic things I enjoy out of EVERY FF game or a JRPG to begin with.

BTW, Good write up O.P.
 
SlipperySlope said:
All I know of this game I read in this thread and a GameFAQ's thread. Haven't played it. But I'm quite shocked. 1) No world map? 2) No armor/weapon shops or inns? 3) Only 3 towns? 4) Nothing but battles and cut scenes? 5) Regaining all lost health after battle, no MP, no Exp. points? 6) Non-turn based battles? 7) You only control one character in battle and can't change characters mid-battle?

Quite shocking Square would go this route. I was angry when they took out world maps in FF X, but this is on a whole new level.

I was gonna buy this day one in March. I'm now not so sure.




A level cap?

1) What's wrong with that?

2) Switching out some random guy in a building, who basically is a hollow soulless automaton, with the internet? I don't see any difference here.

3/4) Reasonable complaints, kinda.

5) There is XP, you simply decide what to spend it on a opposed to it upping you stats and attacks in general. Healing after battle and lack of MP seem work really well with how the battles work, if things were the opposite it'd be annoying.

6) Umm.... and?

7) Reasonable complaint.
 

hteng

Banned
+amazing graphics
+amazing animation
+amazing cutscenes
+amazing world design
+amazing character models
+good music (pop-ish)
+good variety of enemies
+good difficulty progression (gets somewhat harder)
+The systems and combat are easy to pickup, even for a person that doesn't know japanese

-shitty characters (lack development)
-shitty story (wtf is this shit gif)
-linearity (all the way)
-lack of customization options(it's a straight upgrade path really)
-short (main story)
-control only one character, game over if character dies (too constraint)
-I hate snow (although i like hot blooded characters, he's the shitty and annoying type)

This game scores perfect in presentation but lack everything else that makes a memorable game.
this game does not have a lasting impression on me, still decent none the less
 

Aokage

Pretty nice guy (apart from the blue shadows thing...)
Bebpo said:
I'm really looking forward to your impressions. Definitely post them here.

I'm also curious how the hell people can play 120 hours in a week :p I did 50 and that was really really overkill with me having no life for that week outside of XIII!

Ha ha... well, I've had a somewhat wacksy tradition since FFVI of eat-sleep-FF until I feel I've done everything the game has to offer. I just plan ahead and take a vacation :lol
And it was ten days, not a week yo!

Anyway, FF has been my favorite game series all my life, and it remains so after XIII. Impressions to come soon...
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
speedpop said:
The thought of the game not having any towns is slightly disheartening, but then I reconsider the fact that I am sick of talking to NPCs milling about in a shanty town that also don't do anything but tell me stupid shit.
Yeah i'm surprised there are people that actually enjoyed doing that in FF games. Most of the stuff they usually said was shit anyway, and not worth it in comparison to the DQ games.
 
Lafiel said:
Yeah i'm surprised there are people that actually enjoyed doing that in FF games. Most of the stuff they usually said was shit anyway, and not worth it in comparison to the DQ games.
Yea I don't understand the opposite. Sure a lot of games do boring things with towns but I feel that the FF games at least try to make them interesting. If you can't understand the point of showing towns when build a game world then I don't know what to say.

When I think of ff7 I remember how almost every town had some cool detail or purpose. Even sma things like seeing hojo on the beach in costa del sol.

I just hate this kind of thinking. "well they are never interesting so they should just give up an ignore them"

you know there is another choice. They could actually try to do something interesting.
 

Socreges

Banned
Sounds like I'll be skipping this one. But then again that may have happened, regardless. I've never even touched FFXII. Partly because the time commitment always scares me. Maybe my love affair with RPGs is over.

BTW, I can't believe this game doesn't have any towns.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Socreges said:
Sounds like I'll be skipping this one. But then again that may have happened, regardless. I've never even touched FFXII. Partly because the time commitment always scares me. Maybe my love affair with RPGs is over.

BTW, I can't believe this game doesn't have any towns.
This actually seems like an RPG that could be playable for those of us with serious time constraints. Those open ended games often keep me away simply because I don't have the time to play them anymore (with the exception of Fallout 3, which is structured in such a way that you never feel overwhelmed). I'm actually happy to hear that FFXIII is ultra linear as it means I'll probably finish it. :p I mean, thinking back, I NEVER EVER bothered with side quests, mini-games, and other such activities in JRPGs so removing them isn't going to phase me at all.

The lack of explorable towns, however, is a bit odd and surprising.
 
Zefah said:
You should see some of the Powerpoint sales proposals I help edit and translate at work (Japanese company). My coworkers pack so much shit in a variety of colors into each slide it is madness. It's like they aren't satisfied unless they fill up every inch of the page with something. You can see the same type of thing with a lot of Japanese magazines, TV shows, advertisements and stores as you mentioned. Everything is just plastered with images and multi-colored text in a variety of fonts.


I can totally see this :lol
I used to date a Japanese girl, watching advertisements (Japanese TV) was ridiculous. So many effects, different fonts, different colors... it was almost maddening. I'd usually just start staring at the wall for some consistency :lol
 

Bebpo

Banned
dark10x said:
This actually seems like an RPG that could be playable for those of us with serious time constraints. Those open ended games often keep me away simply because I don't have the time to play them anymore (with the exception of Fallout 3, which is structured in such a way that you never feel overwhelmed). I'm actually happy to hear that FFXIII is ultra linear as it means I'll probably finish it. :p I mean, thinking back, I NEVER EVER bothered with side quests, mini-games, and other such activities in JRPGs so removing them isn't going to phase me at all.

The lack of explorable towns, however, is a bit odd and surprising.

It's also nice that there the save points are like every 10 mins and cutscenes are short (2-3 mins usually). You can pretty much pick up and play the game whenever for however long you want.


hteng said:
+amazing graphics
-I hate snow (although i like hot blooded characters, he's the shitty and annoying type)

I've noticed there is a huge discrepancy between people who've played the game and what characters they like/dislike.

I thought Snow was awesome. He's the confident, funny, charming, heroic guy who always does the right thing and encourages everyone. He's the kind of guy who it's always fun to hang out with in a group because he is so full of energy and in a good mood. To me he is the main character I want in my videogames. But then I thought Lightning was really dull and boring. She holds in her emotions and is quiet and acts like a crazy women with random outbursts.

Yet I look at the Tim Rogers writeup and he says snow is terrible because he is the kind of person who you get tired just looking at because they have too much energy and Lightning is better than Cloud/Squall. Which is like opposite world for me.

So yeah, for some reason (whether it's culture or the players own personality type or something) people have really really varying takes on the cast.

Though I think everyone agrees that Sahz is great because he just is.
 
Game doesn't sound so bad now.

Hcoregamer00 said:
Having no skyscrapers, massive castles and bustling cities in high-def graphics with cool architecture makes me sad. Final Fantasy Versus better make up for it by having a bustling, inviting megalopolis.

I actually like how in Versus XIII trailers it just seemed like...there was no one there. Like, it was Noctis, Stella and Noctis' friends and that's about it...with a bunch of mafia like dudes in suits. I just thought it was more...fitting maybe? I kinda liked that desolate feeling the trailers had, made it feel more dark and not happy adventure time if you know what I mean. But strangely it was peaceful at the same time despite all the dudes in armor and stuff. I'd like a megalopolis in the game, though I liked the feeling Versus had for it.

H_Prestige said:
Places like Lindblum, Archades, Treno, Alexandria, and Midgar, just to name a few, are truly fantasy settings and feel like they came from someone's dream rather than reality.

I thought Midgard was boring.
 

Spydy

Banned
Thanks for the impressions.

The fact it's so linear is a little off putting for me. I would have expected at least some exploring of the overworld and side-quests, etc. Not sure I like the idea of being forced to travel from place to place, constantly being asked to fight. Some exploration and side-quests would break the monotony somewhat...
 
But that's only if the fighting becomes monotonous.
I like the idea of a lean RPG. But I'm wondering, if this wasn't a Final Fantasy game but a Western RPG would the criticisms still be as valid?
 
I actually agree with Dark. I've noticed that I've developed some kind of ADD as I got older when playing rpgs, and the reason why is that I am overwhelmed by the vast, non-linear environments. I look at all the different directions I can go to and my head starts to hurt. Sure, I can ignore them and continue with the main quest, but I paid full price for a game that I want to fully enjoy.

I don't mind an rpg that's linear where you're on the world map, move the cursor over a new town or village, hit enter, and begin.
 
Slackbladder said:
But that's only if the fighting becomes monotonous.
I like the idea of a lean RPG. But I'm wondering, if this wasn't a Final Fantasy game but a Western RPG would the criticisms still be as valid?

Jrpgs have always had a certain "prestige" about them. They're viewed differently especially since Japan is essentially the rpg home country for the last 20+ years
 

ksamedi

Member
From the impressions I think I will like this entry. But I also already know it will not be my favorite one. I'm glad the battle system is fun but it was expected.
 

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
This sounds like my dream Final Fantasy, to be honest. I've always enjoyed the early, linear chunks of the other entries in the series more than the open sprawl afterwards, and this looks like it'll take that further. And combat is by far the most important part of an RPG's gameplay, so if this gets it right, that's awesome.
 
So, this sounds like it really is closer to FFX. And the all the minuses from you guys are a big deal to me too. Besides just the combat (and even that has issues), a lot of it sounds like a "smaller" Final Fantasy.

I'm going to pick it up obviously but now I have to wait for FFXV to get the more "robust" FF.
 
Game sounds great. Sounds very linear, but as long as these linear environments are nicely designed and beautiful I don't see the problem. I prefer linear, connected environments over a blown-up representation of the main character on a world map. I mean even on a world map you're just moving your characters from point A to point B, at least if you're following the main story. Sure, venturing off and exploring other potential venues was always fun, but it was never my main draw to playing an RPG. And I'm sure you can explore quite a bit of uncharted territory on Pulse anyhow.

The only things I'm worried about at this moment is stuff like voice acting, story direction, etc. I've dug into some spoilers, not many, and I think I read what the main central point of the story is and I thought it sounded very, very cool. Yeah, I'm totally ready for horrible dialogue and horrible voice acting and some stupidity here and there, but being a long-time FF fan I've ran into such complications before and they've never really halted my enjoyment. I mean FFVIII is one of my favorite installments and it has one of the dumbest plot twists in storytelling on any medium. I'm also worried about the "My Hands" scene, wherever that might play at, because it will destroy that part of the game and leave nothing but ash.

At this point, overall, I'm fairly certain I'll love the game.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Slackbladder said:
But that's only if the fighting becomes monotonous.
I like the idea of a lean RPG. But I'm wondering, if this wasn't a Final Fantasy game but a Western RPG would the criticisms still be as valid?

I have held western RPGs to a higher standard lately. After Oblivion, Fallout 3, Dragon Age, and Titan Quest (might as well call it a rpg if ff13 is one) I think you can say that I have been shown the light. Dragon Age scratched my ffxii itch, but it has less fight opportunities with it's non respawning monsters, and it lacks a large amount of inventive hunt like fights.

I think the hunts in ffxii were awesome, it wasn't just go here and fight this awesome enemy, it was stuff like Antlion with it's pack of other antlions chasing you down in a narrow underground maze. Or chasing that little glowing necromancer blue rat in that is near Fey Wood, or whatever the rabbit people's home is. No one is talking about how interesting the actual hunts are other than it takes a lot of traveling to get to them. For a streamlined FF that's odd, even FF12 let you warp around the place to get to the hunts, or Esper fights.

I really hope the next Dragon Age do away with cleaning the world of enemies, add a better variety of loot, and add in a lot of challenging fights like FFXII. I'm on my 3rd play through mainly because the game run out of monsters, and partly because things are pretty different each time. They have the cities and everything else that I like.

All of these western rpgs have taken up the jrpg slack for me as I waited on ff13 (white knight sounds good right about now, but I don't know. Will look into it again), ff13 sounds like a Uncharted FF hybrid. After GTA4 I'm thinking, "Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." However I may open up a gamefly to try it out at some point.

Long answer short, I wouldn't even touch it if it wasn't FF. If it was a western rpg I would think they have lost their minds.

Edit: Another thing about FF13's hunt zone. It's awesome that it's the size of a FF11 zone but I expected that x about 10-15. PS2 did those ff11 zones and all of the talk about cocoon. Pulse at the beginning with the dinosaurs running in that little valley and seeing that shot of Vanille look at the horizon gave me some expectations of freedom.
 
Maybe it is just me but I think people are misunderstanding the depth of the linear complaints. All ff games have been linear as far as where you are supposed to go. And I see peoe saying that it will be fine as long as the areas are designs well.

Outside of a couple of entries I also get overwhelmed and leave a lot of the optional things alone. But is it really that wrong to have the choice. Would it take away from ffxiiis strengths by having more exploration(even inside the story levels would have been cool) or more variety in the gameplay?

But they aren't. Artistically yes but the actual level design(outside of a couple of places) is boring as all hell. It's mundane and you are usually running down a straight narrow corridor.

Again I guess this is a difference in what people play RPGs for but I have to admit I have never heard these kind of opinions in real life.

I always felt that be direction RPGs took was a big deal in game design. Maybe I am completely off point but games before were always focused on level design. It was about creating a limited 3d or 2d space.

But RPGs took it to a different level and tried to create a cohesive world inside the game. I just feel that ffxiii is a step back in this way. Honestly the game felt like it had more in common with The Bouncer when itcame to certain design choices.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
The extreme linearity, level caps, and doing away of towns makes me extremely wary... exploring the giant sprawling towns is always something I love about RPGs, and was the best part of XII. Fast and strategic combat sounds good, but not if there's barely any dungeon to explore. Thanks for the writeups, folks. Didn't know so many people were FF5 fans either, that will probably always be my favorite FF game.
 

Shouta

Member
Hey, the thread didn't get out of hand while I was gone! Woohoo!

I sold my copy yseterday =x Got 5,500 yen for it though.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
this is a bit of a weird question, but how is the games', err... for lack of a better phrase that actually makes sense, geometry? I haven't seen all that much, but a lot of what I have seen have been very straight, narrow paths. Very PS2-era type design, as in, hallways filled with beautiful art but virtually nothing to interact with, very static.

Is it like that for basically the whole game, or is there some interesting design later in the game?
 

Bebpo

Banned
Shouta said:
Hey, the thread didn't get out of hand while I was gone! Woohoo!

I sold my copy yseterday =x Got 5,500 yen for it though.

So basically 1/2 what you paid for 11 days after release. Almost like American trade in prices!
 

Bebpo

Banned
Rez said:
this is a bit of a weird question, but how is the games', err... for lack of a better phrase that actually makes sense, geometry? I haven't seen all that much, but a lot of what I have seen have been very straight, narrow paths. Very PS2-era type design, as in, hallways filled with beautiful art but virtually nothing to interact with, very static.

Is it like that for basically the whole game, or is there some interesting design later in the game?

Some areas have nice geometry, but most of the environments are low-poly PS2 blocky with very nice art textures. I think 90% of the polygon count went into the characters and enemies (which all look incredible). I sort of feel the environment poly-count was kept lower in order to have huge areas and no loading as well.

There are 2 areas off the top of my head that are mind-boggling incredible from a visual perspective. The mixture of good geometry with insane art makes those two sections look better than any other game even if they aren't pushing tech as much.
 

Shouta

Member
Bebpo said:
So basically 1/2 what you paid for 11 days after release. Almost like American trade in prices!

I got the game for 8300 and 10% back in sofmap points so really like 7500ish! 2000 yen to rent and beat the game is fine with me!
 

luxarific

Nork unification denier
For those of you who have played it: are the battle animations fast? Or do (non-boss) battles at least flow along at a good pace? I'm playing Last Remnant right now and while it's generally a good JRPG, basic battles take f o r e v e r, because the animations are so slow (even when the game is installed to the hard drive).
 

Bebpo

Banned
Very fast. In fact, too fast and you won't have your next commands inputted by the time they are done ^^;
 
I can finally throw my hat into the ring. Before getting into this though, a few things first. I do not know Japanese, I know a few phrases and symbols and that's it. That being said, it is totally possible I misunderstood something or flat out missed something obvious that affected my experience as a result. Feel free to point it out in any replies. I beat the game without any outside assistance except for one tip for a certain battle, so I didn't ready any guides, threads, or translation FAQs. All I knew coming in was what I saw in trailers, what I played in the demo and TGS build, and from the various interviews.

The game looks great, and aside from some frame drops during close ups of the characters for cutscenes, it's one of the best looking games I've ever seen. They've really closed the gap between the CG and the rendered cutscene models. I also love the soundtrack, though they went a bit vocal-heavy with the thing.

I absolutely am not a fan of the battle system and I think it is the worst in the series. I caught myself pressing X as characters attacked because that's how much I want a real-time battle system in this series, and after XII, this is a step back. Yes I know the Gambit system let the game play itself, but at least the battle maps were more real-time than XIII's. Here's where not knowing Japanese nor reading any guides may show I didn't know enough about this game. I thought the AI for my party members was atrocious, simply because they wouldn't do the smartest action possible in certain situations. Like HEAL THE PARTY LEADER SINCE IF THEY DIE, IT IS ALL OVER. I can't tell you how many times a healer would ignore my leader and blow the battle. It was shades of Sheva in RE 5...

Not only that, but because I couldn't toggle between characters, I couldn't issue specific commands to them, such as buffing and debuffing during the more difficult battles later in the game. Sure you can have your leader have every role, but then you have to toggle back and forth between them, which makes you a one-man party in essence. It took too long to get what I wanted done, and I felt luck was needed in more than a few spots to get by when bad AI nearly cost me the battle.

This also spills over into the Crystarium system, which I should love because it is close to the Sphere Grid system of Final Fantasy X - my favorite FF. But just like the major flaw of the system in XII, if you focused too much on the wrong area, your life became hell. Trying to get your stats up to where they should be, especially in the latter third of the game, requires you to go back to that mechanic I loved back in the day but absolutely abhor now - grinding. Oh yea, I hate that crap, and just like XII, I had to grind so much near the end because I apparently wasn't far enough in the Crystarium levels to stand up to the battles to come. Nevermind I fought every normal battle along my path and won up to this point, and I also didn't avoid battles unless it was one I knew I couldn't win or was too difficult at the time.

I reached the final boss in 30 hours. I beat the game in 40 hours. Why? 10 HOURS OF GRINDING to get my stats up to something to survive the encounter. Yet somehow, I was able to beat EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME (sans hidden/optional bosses and mobs) within 10 tries at most. It was, until then, all about figuring out the right combination of party makeup and strategy. I loved that part of the game, until the end.

Also, what was with that "death spell" bosses could cast on me if I took too long? I really think I missed something because taking over 30 mins to beat a boss is a staple of jRPGs, and a testament of will power. It seemed like if I wasn't beating the boss the right way, the game didn't want you to win. I'd figure out a strategy that would lead to victory, but because it was taking too long, the game said "sorry, you get to die". Again, this better be something I missed because if not, that's BS.

So yea, battle system and mechanics got on my nerves in the end, and the other low point of the game is the pacing and structure. It's mostly linear, with a small portion that's sort of open world, but it's a single environment about the size of a normal zone in an MMO where you can explore (to an extent) and not be forced to follow a certain path. I've seen people compare this to Final Fantasy X, but at least Spira was interconnected and you could go back and forth across the entire world, sans getting on a boat or Shoopuff to travel across water. You even got an airship BEFORE the end of the game to explore around.

You can finally "backtrack" only at the very end, which is there for people to do the optional missions and bosses, or for people like me who are gonna need to grind to survive that last encounter. XII's world was great. X's world, while more linear, was much better than XIII's. Sure there's a bit of exploration every now and then, but it's mostly a fixed path. I've heard the term "on-rails RPG" from my friends who watched me play a good bit this past week. There wasn't even really an "overworld" per-say, which is what I think was the key ingredient missing.

Despite those issues, I still had a moderate amount of fun and I did feel satisfied when I finished the game. And again, until the latter part of the game, I was enjoying the "figure-out-the-strategy" style of boss encounter. Oh, and thank you very much for letting me start right at a battle (or close to it) when I wiped. Not that there weren't a plethora of save points and you started fresh after each battle, but it just made life easier. I also wasn't too adverse to there being no towns or traditional shops to visit, and being able to do handle purchasing and selling inventory from any save point made things simpler. There were still a few areas with a population to interact with, but some part of me did miss having towns with lively scenes.

I'm kinda dreading having to play this thing all over again in English to fully understand and appreciate the story (and probably some other stuff), but who knows, maybe it will be more pleasant the second time around. And to be fair, these are just fresh impressions right after beating it, so after I've had more time with it and get to play the English version, maybe I'll come around and like it better. So for somebody who played the Japanese version with no understanding of the language, this is what I thought.
 
nelsonroyale said:
absolutely can't understand why anyone would play it in a language they don't understand, but thanks for the impressions...

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I like the challenge of having to actually figure out some things on your own. I love the Zelda series, the older games in particular, and I liked the approach where you toss a player into a world and have to just figure out stuff with a few basic hints and directions. Too many games nowadays hold your hand.

Also, I know I don't know the language, but I'm a film person, and visuals should do the majority of the work. I could write out what I think transpired in XIII, and aside from the specific terms and details, I bet I could summarize fairly well what the plot is.

And finally, controllers are universal...meaning gameplay is gameplay, whether it's in Japanese, English, French, Spanish, etc. The core experience should be identical, and at the end of the day, I play games for the "game" part. If I can play a game now or wait a few months, I'd rather play it now. Plus, I was on break, had the time, and this Q1 is gonna be insane...I might not get the time to fully play XIII even when it hits the US.
 

Firestorm

Member
Hm, I was kind of put off in that other RPG thread when I found out it wouldn't really be a jRPG in the traditional sense, but the battle system is really fun sounding and it looks like it'll satisfy the graphics whore in me =) Can't wait again. It's a shame about the overworld/towns not being there but the impressions on the battle system really have me hyped! Especially since I'm playing Lost Odyssey right now which is fairly slow.
 
gamergirly said:
Jrpgs have always had a certain "prestige" about them. They're viewed differently especially since Japan is essentially the rpg home country for the last 20+ years
Um, no. Maybe to a certain subset of gamers this might've been the case, but for basically everyone I've ever met who is more than superficially familiar with both, WRPGs (specifically those on PC) have always been considered the more advanced, more innovative, and more true to the historical foundation of actual role playing. At most, one can claim that, following the popularity of FFVII (released less than 13 years ago), Japan produced the most popular RPGs; but even this has fallen off as games like KOTOR, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 have returned WRPGs to the view of the masses. This, of course, isn't meant to start a debate on the comparative merits of the differing forms of RPGs, but merely to counter this ridiculous assertion.

If anything, extreme linearity in a JRPG would be seen as much less of an aberration than extreme linearity in a WRPG. Just consider the features even the average, mainstream gamer expects in a WRPG - customizable characters, dialogue trees, branching stories, multiple endings, sandbox-style game-worlds, etc. - and it should be apparent that if a game made in the west came out claiming it was an RPG while being as linear as FFXIII it would be seen as patently mislabeled. That a game like FFXIII can pass for an RPG anywhere proves how far removed the label has been from actual role playing in certain regions and amongst certain subsets of developers and gamers.
 

chriskun

Member
So let me get this straight, the games lacks overworlds where you wander around talking to npcs who only have at the most two lines they repeat?? And people are disappointed by this??
 

Donos

Member
chriskun said:
So let me get this straight, the games lacks overworlds where you wander around talking to npcs who only have at the most two lines they repeat?? And people are disappointed by this??

I know what you mean. One one side, i love towns in RPGs which feel lively but on the other hand i don't bother anymore to click all the npc's. I just go to the NPCs with names or where you know the are important (for Quest/Sidequest/Trade). In most RPGs every "important" NPC has a name and the others don't have one.
 
Honestly the impressions in this thread have almost completely turned me off the game. Its just a linear run through with no deviation, just monster hallways as I once feared? What on earth took so long with the development of this game if its lacking almost all the complexity of previous FF's game design? If I can blast through it with good time, looks like a rental if anything if theres no replay value.
 
Well at least for me I think it took so long because of how goddamn beautiful it is. Honestly it really really is breathtaking in a lot of senses, especially because of the absolutely stunning art direction.

I have put down the game and played some other stuff and I am not going to say some stupid shit like "OMG THIS IS BEST LOOKING GAME EVAR" but to a lot of people I really think it will feel like that. At least in it's genre I can't think of anything that holds a candle to it. And to top it all off the engine holds up like a dream. It is so damn smooth even with some much action going on in battle. Especially some of the last attacks with zoom and slow motion started to really blow me away. I only saw a couple of graphical hiccups(saw weird AI issues more though) throughout the entire game.

Maybe the small scope of the actual level design(outside of one) is the reason why they are able to have it look so good, I don't fucking know because S-E development is a complete mystery to me. It might not be that far off from the truth because it is really obvious that a lot of painstaking work went into the models(every one in the game) and the environment is there. Maybe they just accepted that they would keep the scope small and the variation simple while the engine is fleshed out and expanded upon for Versus.

Or maybe they just hate me :(
 
BudokaiMR2 said:
Maybe the small scope of the actual level design(outside of one) is the reason why they are able to have it look so good, I don't fucking know because S-E development is a complete mystery to me. It might not be that far off from the truth because it is really obvious that a lot of painstaking work went into the models(every one in the game) and the environment is there. Maybe they just accepted that they would keep the scope small and the variation simple while the engine is fleshed out and expanded upon for Versus.
You might be on to something there. I wonder if, when faced with the limitations of the PS3 hardware, the team was forced to make a choice to sacrifice either graphics or non-linearity and chose to sacrifice the latter, or whether the game was intended to be this linear from the beginning, and this simply worked to their advantage. With the fairly large amount of criticism the game is receiving for its linearity, I'm hoping an answer to this will be forthcoming.
 

antiloop

Member
hteng said:
+amazing graphics
+amazing animation
+amazing cutscenes
+amazing world design
+amazing character models
+good music (pop-ish)
+good variety of enemies
+good difficulty progression (gets somewhat harder)
+The systems and combat are easy to pickup, even for a person that doesn't know japanese

-shitty characters (lack development)
-shitty story (wtf is this shit gif)
-linearity (all the way)
-lack of customization options(it's a straight upgrade path really)
-short (main story)
-control only one character, game over if character dies (too constraint)
-I hate snow (although i like hot blooded characters, he's the shitty and annoying type)

This game scores perfect in presentation but lack everything else that makes a memorable game.
this game does not have a lasting impression on me, still decent none the less

Mayday mayday. Hype going down fast! Minuses on almost all the things that matters in a JRPG for me.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
ronito said:
I'm sorry am I reading that right? No towns to explore, no sidequests?

Wow, that's a huge minus in my book if true.

I mean Vector, Midgard, Zanarkand were all like central characters to prior final fantasies...

This for me. The more I read about Final Fantasy XIII, the more and more skeptical I grow... and the lack of being able to control your party members in battle beyond giving them some basic outlines... it's like Persona 3 all over again (and I wanted to like that game. I REALLY wanted to like that game).

Perhaps I should just wait for an improved International version.
 
TSA said:
I thought the AI for my party members was atrocious, simply because they wouldn't do the smartest action possible in certain situations. Like HEAL THE PARTY LEADER SINCE IF THEY DIE, IT IS ALL OVER. I can't tell you how many times a healer would ignore my leader and blow the battle. It was shades of Sheva in RE 5...


really??

Damn... they were on the ball with that in the demo. :(
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
I dunno guys, it still sounds to me that people are critical of FFXIII for what it isn't, not what it is.

Same as FFXII, FFXI, and FFX/X-2 in short: Being different to <insert personal favourite FF title or JRPG> is always a problem for some folks.

The reality is that SE tried a quasi-MMORPG open-world style with XII and it performed comparitively worse than the ultra-linear FFX. It should be no surprise to anyone that X/X-2 are more evident in the game's DNA than its notoriously troubled immediate predecessor.

Linearity is also the right way to go if you if you want maximum polish in your production, and that glossiness is the true defining characteristic of recent Final Fantasy titles.

I'd also add that in development circles there's always an argument about whether expending resources on side-content is actually justifiable. This is simply because its understood that for the majority of players the primary campaign/story/levels IS all the game they will experience. Side-events/post-game material is rarely mentioned in reviews, especially if a minimal "completion" of the story takes a long time there's no guarantee that players will even make it to the end.
 
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