Support NeoGAF

[Segata Sanshiro]

The reality is that SE tried a quasi-MMORPG open-world style with XII and it performed comparitively worse than the ultra-linear FFX. It should be no surprise to anyone that X/X-2 are more evident in the game's DNA than its notoriously troubled immediate predecessor.

It's not like FFXII doing worse was an anomaly for the series. Each installment has been doing progressively worse since the peak of FFVIII, and so far FFXIII is no different.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Still day 1 I guess...
Sucks that all I have to look forward to is a good battle system and pretty grafix though.

 

[theMrCravens]

The reality is that SE tried a quasi-MMORPG open-world style with XII and it performed comparitively worse than the ultra-linear FFX. It should be no surprise to anyone that X/X-2 are more evident in the game's DNA than its notoriously troubled immediate predecessor.

I liked the open world and battle system of FF XII.

The real problem was the storyline, main characters, english VOs, license grid, entire second half of game...

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I liked the open world and battle system of FF XII.

The real problem was the storyline, main characters, english VOs, license grid, entire second half of game...

You mean the actual voice acting or just the bad sound quality?

 

[Clear]

The important thing imho about FFX is that its linearity and character-driven nature made it a shoe-in for sequelization.

I also don't think its unfair to consider X and X-2 as the *same* project, SE certainly recycled a ton of assets in order to turn it round as fast as they did. A combined time-scale less than that expended on FFXII.

So, if you look at it from that perspective there's a massive disparity in terms of performance between X/X-2 and FFXII, and that will not have passed unnoticed by the SE suits.

Don't get me wrong, I loved FFXII, it was like methadone for my FFXI addiction ! (seriously.)
I just think that its an experiment that SE will be in no hurry to repeat.

 

[H_Prestige]

You might be on to something there. I wonder if, when faced with the limitations of the PS3 hardware, the team was forced to make a choice to sacrifice either graphics or non-linearity and chose to sacrifice the latter, or whether the game was intended to be this linear from the beginning, and this simply worked to their advantage. With the fairly large amount of criticism the game is receiving for its linearity, I'm hoping an answer to this will be forthcoming.

FFXIV and Versus XIII are for the same ps3 hardware, yet I doubt either of them are going to be as linear as FFXIII or have worse graphics. This was a design choice made at the start of the project.

 

[esbern]

what i'm mostly seeing is everybody complaining about how linear the game is. but its fine in uncharted 2.

and the fact that there is no grinding is something the majority of people who will play this game will enjoy: its a tedious, aggravating mechanism and i could not be more thrilled that it is gone.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The important thing imho about FFX is that its linearity and character-driven nature made it a shoe-in for sequelization.

I also don't think its unfair to consider X and X-2 as the *same* project, SE certainly recycled a ton of assets in order to turn it round as fast as they did. A combined time-scale less than that expended on FFXII.

So, if you look at it from that perspective there's a massive disparity in terms of performance between X/X-2 and FFXII, and that will not have passed unnoticed by the SE suits.

Don't get me wrong, I loved FFXII, it was like methadone for my FFXI addiction ! (seriously.)
I just think that its an experiment that SE will be in no hurry to repeat.

No, I'm not going to accept that proposal. They are not the same project. FFX was its own project and after the fact SE found a way to reuse the assets. It would be completely silly to start counting FFX's sales as FFX + FFX-2 combined. Counting the Advance, PSX, and Wonderswan ports of FF1-6 into their totals would make more sense, and we don't do that, either.

And the games are incredibly different, assets aside. I would argue FFX-2 is not even remotely linear. Not in the slightest. From almost the beginning of the game, the entire world is open to you. An entire world full of towns and NPCs and sidequests up the wazoo. FFXIII certainly might divine inspiration from the battle system of FFX-2, but in every other aspect, the two games couldn't be more different.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

what i'm mostly seeing is everybody complaining about how linear the game is. but its fine in uncharted 2.

and the fact that there is no grinding is something the majority of people who will play this game will enjoy: its a tedious, aggravating mechanism and i could not be more thrilled that it is gone.

This post has to be one of the stupidest posts I have read in a long time.

What in the hell does Uncharted 2 have to do with FFXIII?

You want me to draw out maps of the levels from both games on bar napkins and mail them to you to show you how idiotic your sad little post was?

And the game turns into a ridiculous grind-fest if you try to do any of the optional/end-game content.

 

[Skilletor]

what i'm mostly seeing is everybody complaining about how linear the game is. but its fine in uncharted 2.

and the fact that there is no grinding is something the majority of people who will play this game will enjoy: its a tedious, aggravating mechanism and i could not be more thrilled that it is gone.

:lol

I've never played, nor do I care about Uncharted 2, but somehow it is mentioned in EVERY FUCKING THREAD I read.

 

[flabberghastly]

FFXIV and Versus XIII are for the same ps3 hardware, yet I doubt either of them are going to be as linear as FFXIII or have worse graphics. This was a design choice made at the start of the project.

I'm not so certain on the linearity of Versus XIII. I'll wait for the game to release before comparing it to XIII. Moreover, I doubt (the PS3 version of) XIV will achieve the same level of graphics as XIII. If it does, it'll be because they had more time and experience to optimize the engine. At the very least, I don't expect the same exacting attention to detail on every graphical element.

 

[demosthenes]

what i'm mostly seeing is everybody complaining about how linear the game is. but its fine in uncharted 2.

and the fact that there is no grinding is something the majority of people who will play this game will enjoy: its a tedious, aggravating mechanism and i could not be more thrilled that it is gone.

Small difference in action/adventure and a jRPG :lol

 

[demosthenes]

I'm not so certain on the linearity of Versus XIII. I'll wait for the game to release before comparing it to XIII. Moreover, I doubt (the PS3 version of) XIV will achieve the same level of graphics as XIII. If it does, it'll be because they had more time to optimize the engine. At the very least, I don't expect the same exacting attention to detail on every game element.

Nomura said vXIII was supposed to have a world map and useable airship so I remain hopefull.

 

[H_Prestige]

I'm not so certain on the linearity of Versus XIII. I'll wait for the game to release before comparing it to XIII. Moreover, I doubt (the PS3 version of) XIV will achieve the same level of graphics as XIII. If it does, it'll be because they had more time and experience to optimize the engine. At the very least, I don't expect the same exacting attention to detail on every graphical element.

FFXIII doesn't have exacting attention to detail on every graphical element either. It is not some graphical showpiece for a tightly scripted linear adventure game (which is the type of game it is, no matter how much anyone wants to spin it). People who like the way it looks are mostly talking about the art direction.

 

[duckroll]

what i'm mostly seeing is everybody complaining about how linear the game is. but its fine in uncharted 2.

I also don't think its unfair to consider X and X-2 as the *same* project

Okay, this thread is now officially garbage. Maybe we should just shut it down.

 

[Clear]

No, I'm not going to accept that proposal. They are not the same project. FFX was its own project and after the fact SE found a way to reuse the assets. It would be completely silly to start counting FFX's sales as FFX + FFX-2 combined. Counting the Advance, PSX, and Wonderswan ports of FF1-6 into their totals would make more sense, and we don't do that, either.

I'm sorry but that just shows a lack of understanding of how games are made. X-2 not only runs on the same engine/platform but is largely made from the same production assets of X, it recycles the first game's entire world and bestiary with a handful of modifications/additions.

Its not just a matter of facets of the design/production design being pre-established, in X-2 you are frequently seeing the exact same geometry, animation data, and textures reused. That's a very big deal from a production standpoint.

As a game designer I know all too well how cheap "design" is, compared to the cost of actual implementation. And how that factors into the decision making process at executive level.

Its a business guys, so you need to factor cost and perceived "value" to the consumer when anticipating the creative direction chosen for a franchise like Final Fantasy.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I'm sorry but that just shows a lack of understanding of how games are made. X-2 not only runs on the same engine/platform but is largely made from the same production assets of X, it recycles the first game's entire world and bestiary with a handful of modifications/additions.

Its not just a matter of facets of the design/production design being pre-established, in X-2 you are frequently seeing the exact same geometry, animation data, and textures reused. That's a very big deal from a production standpoint.

Really? Really? You're going with this?

I'm sorry, this conversation just got entirely too stupid to continue. Have fun in the magic world where a re-use of assets makes two games' sales count as one. Shit, I guess Mega Man is the best selling game ever... that must be at what, 60 or 70 million copies sold now?

 

[Clear]

Segata, why so angry?

Peace dude. I'm not trying to pick a fight.

Games are machines, its easier and cheaper to just reuse a part rather than manufacture a copy of it.

 

[demosthenes]

Really? Really? You're going with this?

I'm sorry, this conversation just got entirely too stupid to continue. Have fun in the magic world where a re-use of assets makes two games' sales count as one. Shit, I guess Mega Man is the best selling game ever... that must be at what, 60 or 70 million copies sold now?

Why don't we connect all the Mario sales...I think they're well over 100 million :lol

 

[flabberghastly]

Nomura said vXIII was supposed to have a world map and useable airship so I remain hopefull.

Yeah, but we've yet to see how that'll translate graphically. If it means a town-sized Noctis running around in comparatively lower detailed environments (à la PS1-era Final Fantasies), I wouldn't consider those graphics the equal of XIII.

FFXIII doesn't have exacting attention to detail on every graphical element either. It is not some graphical showpiece for a tightly scripted linear adventure game (which is the type of game it is, no matter how much anyone wants to spin it). People who like the way it looks are mostly talking about the art direction.

I won't dispute that because I've yet to play the game; but, unless XIV has a much larger team or will spend much longer in development, not nearly as many elements will be graphically polished to the level of XIII if only because of the difference in scope between a linear world and an MMORPG world.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Segata, why so angry?

Peace dude. I'm not trying to pick a fight.

Because it's goofy, man. If Square's really trying to imitate their most successful product when designing the new one, do you think they would combine the sales of two extremely different games (from a gameplay standpoint) just because they share assets? Or would they just do the sensible thing (if indeed their intent is to ape their prior success) and imitate their highest selling single title?

The sales of FFX and FFX-2 combined say absolutely nothing except that people enjoyed that set of characters/setting. If they were similar in gameplay I might concede a general point here, but they aren't, at all.

 

[Kagari]

Yeah, but we've yet to see how that'll translate graphically. If it means a town-sized Noctis running around in comparatively lower detailed environments (à la PS1-era Final Fantasies), I wouldn't consider those graphics the equal of XIII.

I won't dispute that because I've yet to play the game; but, unless XIV has a much larger team or will spend much longer in development, not nearly as many elements will be graphically polished to the level of XIII if only because of the difference in scope between a linear world and an MMORPG world.

XIV has been in development since 2005.
Environments in XIV are already looking better than XIII.
Art direction in XIV will be superior by default.

 

[Clear]

The sales of FFX and FFX-2 combined say absolutely nothing except that people enjoyed that set of characters/setting. If they were similar in gameplay I might concede a general point here, but they aren't, at all.

I've made a couple of additions to my previous posts to clarify what I meant. Sorry about the bad etiquette, but I didn't want to write a monster post that noone would read.

Its all about the money. X-2 contains a lot of materials and systems that were folded into the production schedule of FFX. Yes, the design was all new, but design is cheap, and making a bestiary of 100 monsters and 50 npc's is expensive and time consuming.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I've made a couple of additions to my previous posts to clarify what I meant. Sorry about the bad etiquette, but I didn't want to write a monster post that noone would read.

Its all about the money. X-2 contains a lot of materials and systems that were folded into the production schedule of FFX. Yes, the design was all new, but design is cheap, and making a bestiary of 100 monsters and 50 npc's is expensive and time consuming.

Okay, so let's assume they go with the combined sales and thus FFX/FFX-2 The Two-Headed Monster becomes the inspiration for the gameplay of FFXIII.

Do they go with the turn-based combat of FFX, or the ATB of FFX-2? Do they go with the extremely linear design of FFX or the extremely non-linear design of FFX-2? One thing I guess they could agree on is to have a plethora of mini-games. How about for learning new abilities? Do they use FFX's sphere grid or do they use the ABP/Job system from FFX-2?

You seem to be trying to make the point that FFX-2's costs were heavily subsidized by FFX and thus can be considered as kind of a megaproject. I have no argument with the idea that FFX-2 was a very cheap game to make relatively speaking because of the re-used assets. That's a pretty obvious point and you don't have to throw down the developer card to make that kind of observation.

But what is the point of your point? We were talking about gameplay and design inspirations. If they were to consider the two games as one mega project, that would tell them absolutely nothing for their design, because both games were very very different in how they play.

 

[H_Prestige]

Yeah, but we've yet to see how that'll translate graphically. If it means a town-sized Noctis running around in comparatively lower detailed environments (à la PS1-era Final Fantasies), I wouldn't consider those graphics the equal of XIII.

I won't dispute that because I've yet to play the game; but, unless XIV has a much larger team or will spend much longer in development, not nearly as many elements will be graphically polished to the level of XIII if only because of the difference in scope between a linear world and an MMORPG world.

I don't see why it's impossible to have nice graphics and a realistically scaled overworld at the same time. DQ8 did a wonderful job on the ps2. FFXII kind of did so as well.

 

[duckroll]

Yeah, but we've yet to see how that'll translate graphically. If it means a town-sized Noctis running around in comparatively lower detailed environments (à la PS1-era Final Fantasies), I wouldn't consider those graphics the equal of XIII.

Why would it matter if the actual environments in the towns and dungeons are equal to that of XIII? It's not like there's a highly detailed world map in XIII to compare it with. If what exists in both XIII and Versus XIII are equal, and Versus XIII has content which XIII does not have to compare to at all, then I would say the graphics are most certainly comparable.

 

[fernoca]

OMG!
Get non-Final Fantasy XIII games the hell out of here!! :lol
I mean come on, Final Fantasy X and X-2 count as one because they used the same engine?!..geeze..


Sorry for derailing the actual discussion on those incredible topics, but..is there any word out about how many discs the Xbox 360 version is going to be?? Also..any special/limited editions planned??

I'm also dissapointed that I didn't get my Chocobo avatar... ..yet my friend which I gave him the link a few days later, got the email with the code along with many out there...

If any thing, I'm quite happy with the linearity of the game, the more stuff they add to RPGs..the more I'm worried about not talking to some particular NPC or missing some side mission just to get a better weapon.. or item..

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Sorry for derailing the actual discussion on those incredible topics, but..is there any word out about how many discs the Xbox 360 version is going to be?? Also..any special/limited editions planned??

They said they were aiming for 3 or 4 disks, most people think 4.

No word on LE.

 

[Clear]

Okay, so let's assume they go with the combined sales and thus FFX/FFX-2 The Two-Headed Monster becomes the inspiration for the gameplay of FFXIII.

The first obvious analogy to draw is X/X-2 and XIII/Versus XIII sharing the same "double-dip" strategy. If the two games share the same world and run on the same engine it makes sense to have some bleedover in asset use between the two skus.

Its a smart way to mitigate the obscene cost of asset production, and allows you to create a timely follow-up.

Final Fantasy games have a very schematic design. By this I mean elements are nested inside elements, but remain distinctly separate from one another. The classical example of this is the segregation of field and battle modes. The levelling process (RPG element) is entirely the province of the battle game. be it level 1 or 100 the overworld remains fixed and constant.

By the same token, progress through the overworld is moderated by the story. Can you see where I'm going with this?

In the first iteration (FFX) the story unfolds in a fixed linear path. This is because the world is new and unfamiliar to the player at this point and it makes sense to introduce this incrementally. The only linkage between this and the RPG base is the spawn lists for the zones being revealed to get tougher mobs the further the player gets.


In the second iteration (FFX-2) the world has lost its mystery so going a non-linear route makes sense. The overworld only needs minor alterations for continuity with the first installment, and you can completely hot-swap the battle and RPG system because it has no mechanical connection.

The key thing is that although the battle system is different, the behaviours of the mobs are completely unchanged. Outside of story bosses, you have all the meshes, animations, vfx, ready to go. All you really need do is remodel the PC animations, and change the way the battle flows and bobs your uncle... boom! new game same quality as its predecessor in 1 year.

In FFXII you already have a lot of freedom to explore in a quasi MMORPG style. Problem with that is how do you sequelize it without making it look like overgrown DLC or a "director's cut"?

Its easy to take a linear structure into a non-linear structure, because the spatial relationship between the zones is enshrined in the narrative and you have novelty on your side. Going the other way is not nearly so easy, especially if you want to forgo the cost of building a ton of new environments to link stuff up in new ways.

Then you have the problem of the battle-system being much more integrated into the field system in FFXII. You cant just swap out the old battle system without adding a lot of cost overheads if you want to do it radically differently.

The point is that the way SE have gone by making FFXIII linear makes a lot of sense, especially as they are planning a follow up in a short timeframe with Versus.

 

[H_Prestige]

FFXIII and Versus XIII don't "share" anything in the same way as FFX and X-2. Versus isn't FFXIII-2.

 

[duckroll]

Clear, now you're just sprouting nonsense. I suggest you close your mouth before your ignorance gets even more pronounced.

 

[Clear]

Clear, now you're just sprouting nonsense. I suggest you close your mouth before your ignorance gets even more pronounced.

That's harsh man, but I'll stand my ground on this. ; ;

Versus XIII is going to reuse assets, probably not to the extent of X - X2, but it will be significant. If not, why announce both projects being in the same world, same sub-franchise (Fabula Nova Crystallis), etc?

If not, why not just call it FFXV and be done with it?

 

[John Harker]

Um, I just wanted to say, I've been media blackout on this game (at least since Square US stopped returning my phone calls) so I popped in here by chance, read the first few lines of duckroll's impressions... and he likened it to LOST in terms of story?!

I truly appreciate the art of making this game and my frothing demand increases

 

[Fimbulvetr]

That's harsh man, but I'll stand my ground on this. ; ;

Versus XIII is going to reuse assets, probably not to the extent of X - X2, but it will be significant. If not, why announce both projects being in the same world, same sub-franchise (Fabula Nova Crystallis), etc?

If not, why not just call it FFXV and be done with it?

Considering what we've heard, they aren't in the same world.

Square Enix is weird.

 

[H_Prestige]

That's harsh man, but I'll stand my ground on this. ; ;

Versus XIII is going to reuse assets, probably not to the extent of X - X2, but it will be significant. If not, why announce both projects being in the same world, same sub-franchise (Fabula Nova Crystallis), etc?

If not, why not just call it FFXV and be done with it?

I don't see why Versus XIII would reuse FFXIII assets any more than FFXIV is/isn't. None of these games take place in the same world or have the same characters or have the same combat system. They share the same development tools.

 

[duckroll]

That's harsh man, but I'll stand my ground on this. ; ;

Versus XIII is going to reuse assets, probably not to the extent of X - X2, but it will be significant. If not, why announce both projects being in the same world, same sub-franchise (Fabula Nova Crystallis), etc?

If not, why not just call it FFXV and be done with it?

There's not ground you're standing on, it's thin air made up of your overactive imagination, and you're going to fall 20,000 feet into the ground very soon.

Versus is not set in the same world. Versus is not in the same universe. The "sub-franchise" only shares a common concept mythology. The idea is that they came up with a certain mythological concept about the Goddess and the Crystals, and allowed 3 different directors to make entirely different games with their own unique world, storyline, characters, etc. Fabula Nova Crystalis is supposed to be an inspirational concept for 3 teams to produce very different games. That's all it is.

 

[Clear]

Considering what we've heard, they aren't in the same world.

Well neither are most Final Fantasy titles, but you still get a familiar bestiary to deal with wherever you go! So, maybe universe would be better?

To be fair, there could be crossover with FFXIV too, I mean seriously how many artists would you want to assign to creating different giant monster turtles?

 

[thetrin]

That's harsh man, but I'll stand my ground on this. ; ;

Versus XIII is going to reuse assets, probably not to the extent of X - X2, but it will be significant. If not, why announce both projects being in the same world, same sub-franchise (Fabula Nova Crystallis), etc?

If not, why not just call it FFXV and be done with it?

Because they can? Is semantics really what you're hung up on?

 

[duckroll]

Well neither are most Final Fantasy titles, but you still get a familiar bestiary to deal with wherever you go! So, maybe universe would be better?

To be fair, there could be crossover with FFXIV too, I mean seriously how many artists would you want to assign to creating different giant monster turtles?

Warning: Stop talking nonsense or you will get banned very soon for not only taking the entire thread off-topic, but carrying on an argument with no basis in reality or facts for the sake of it.

 

[Piper Az]

I actually agree with Dark. I've noticed that I've developed some kind of ADD as I got older when playing rpgs, and the reason why is that I am overwhelmed by the vast, non-linear environments. I look at all the different directions I can go to and my head starts to hurt. Sure, I can ignore them and continue with the main quest, but I paid full price for a game that I want to fully enjoy.

I don't mind an rpg that's linear where you're on the world map, move the cursor over a new town or village, hit enter, and begin.

I'm not sure that formula's an RPG anymore. FFXIII is more like a next-gen Dragon's Lair with more button-pressing, where you just play a "input" role in a computerized movie.

 

[Kagari]

OMG!
Get non-Final Fantasy XIII games the hell out of here!! :lol
I mean come on, Final Fantasy X and X-2 count as one because they used the same engine?!..geeze..


Sorry for derailing the actual discussion on those incredible topics, but..is there any word out about how many discs the Xbox 360 version is going to be?? Also..any special/limited editions planned??

I'm also dissapointed that I didn't get my Chocobo avatar... ..yet my friend which I gave him the link a few days later, got the email with the code along with many out there...

If any thing, I'm quite happy with the linearity of the game, the more stuff they add to RPGs..the more I'm worried about not talking to some particular NPC or missing some side mission just to get a better weapon.. or item..

Probably 4 discs at this point. Game is 38GB on PS3. A LE was announced for Europe but no details yet. Nothing announced for the US yet.

 

[Y2Kev]

I'm not sure that formula's an RPG anymore. FFXIII is more like a next-gen Dragon's Lair with more button-pressing, where you just play a "input" role in a computerized movie.

This is patently absurd. Have you played the game? How can you say things like this?

 

[indigo-cyclops]

Well neither are most Final Fantasy titles, but you still get a familiar bestiary to deal with wherever you go! So, maybe universe would be better?

To be fair, there could be crossover with FFXIV too, I mean seriously how many artists would you want to assign to creating different giant monster turtles?

Just wanted to say that by a) looking at the images of Vs XIII and b) reading the MINIMAL amount of information released about the game so far, a fucking idiot could tell that these games are set in two completely different worlds. As duckroll stated, the only thing that the three games share in common is a personal interpretation (by each dev team) of a conceptual philosophy. What bugs me more is you're pretty head-strong for a Jr. not even hitting 150 posts!

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Shit can we stop talking about Versus, my keyboard cannot afford to get any stickier.

 

[Bebpo]

This is patently absurd. Have you played the game? How can you say things like this?

Yeah, like I said in my impressions, the attacks against the linear structure have gotten really out of hand and become stupid bs by people who haven't even played it.

Whether XIII is a 10/10 game or a 1/10 game has almost nothing to do with how linear it is. XIII could have easily been the best FF ever while using this exact same linear structure if the gameplay and story had been of high enough quality.

 

[Aokage]

Plz don't close thread until I can post my thoughts

Coming very soon, I promise. I'm chuckling at this thread, though. Sure, maybe FFXIII could be considered an adventure game (in the PC sense) with combat, but suggesting it's a 60-hour QTE... :lol

 

[Piper Az]

This is patently absurd. Have you played the game? How can you say things like this?

Yeah, in hindsight, what I said regarding FFXIII was pretty absurd. Let's keep the linearity factor to its story/game-structure, which is pretty disappointing tbh.

 

[aceface]

-The first half of the game is very character development focused. It's not about the plot (you actually have no idea what the plot is most of the time), it's about the characters and they are a good likeable rpg cast once they get past their initial emo/angst subplots (so hold on for a bit if the first 6-10 hours makes you want to punch them in the face). The 2nd half is very plot, plot, plot with not much development for anyone at all. The plot also seems like it's just random scenes from a story with the database semi-filling in the rest, but a lot just seems missing. I feel like there is a good story somewhere in here. And if you take all the info you have and sit around with a bunch of gamers you could probably figure out the epic rpg tale that was trying to be told. But what's in there is just a mess of randomness and for the most part you never have any idea what's going on in the story and you don't care. It's very similar to the first time I played FFVIII!

As you said, the bolded sounds like FF8 to a T. There's a ton of stuff about the world, background, and even character relationships that's hidden in FF8 (they never come right out and say what the relationship between Squall and Laguna is for example even though it's kind of the crux of the whole game). But for me, I really liked that about FF8 but I know a lot of people didn't. I'm sure they'll be huge threads going over the FF13 story, but I wonder if at the same time it will be as polarizing at FF8 was.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Yeah, like I said in my impressions, the attacks against the linear structure have gotten really out of hand and become stupid bs by people who haven't even played it.

Whether XIII is a 10/10 game or a 1/10 game has almost nothing to do with how linear it is. XIII could have easily been the best FF ever while using this exact same linear structure if the gameplay and story had been of high enough quality.

That's totally in your opinion. Some people, like me, feel that exploration is essential to a Final Fantasy game. For me, lack of exploration, to the point of total linearity, would knock down the game by 5 points in my book (on a scale of 1-10). So if everything else gives the game a 10, the linearity knocks it down to a 5.

I haven't played the game, but if it's as linear as some people are saying, for me, the game can't be anything more than a 5.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

what i'm mostly seeing is everybody complaining about how linear the game is. but its fine in uncharted 2.

and the fact that there is no grinding is something the majority of people who will play this game will enjoy: its a tedious, aggravating mechanism and i could not be more thrilled that it is gone.

I would welcome a uncharted holy crap styled FF. That would be awesome, you control one character, don't have a locked down battle system but a free to move around battle system, and the game throw surprises and set piece situations at you that drop your jaw. Knowing SE they could have you doing amazing things (spoiler if you didn't see the final trailer)

Spoiler

Like when they are fighting in that futuristic city with all of their summons called

. Just don't put it in the rpg genre. Maybe give leveling up and collecting/upgrading weapons, but call it a action rpg, and allow for wide open spaces and insane battle segments with tons of action going on all around you. SE can probably out Unchart Uncharted 2.

Also it can't be set up to start getting awesome 20 hours in, start off slow and intimate for 2-3 hours if you must but after that things will have to hit the fan, be thrown into a grinder, which is spit out into that thing on transformers 2.

You made me want a game that might not even have a chance of coming out from SE. It'll probably only be in CG form.