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[Kaako]

Hey guys...lets talk about how awesome DMC4 is going to be.

DMC4 is going to be very very awesome. So awesome that I shall purchase it day one.

 

[tanod]

Here's the thing:

Since they spent the time and money to develop the install process and to get the game to run a certain way on the PS3, Capcom probably just wants reviewers and gamers to make sure they get the credit for doing so.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

It also means a developer can rush a game to market half assed that people will buy anyways, and patch it later. Think outside the box.

I dont think devs want to do that

 

[Ynos Yrros]

Patches, forced installations...

I miss the days when consoles didn't have to deal with this.

No load times. I hope that every game gets rid of load times, they suck and take all the immersion out.

 

[Loonz]

If the Sony fans on this thread weren't so obnoxiously defensive about every nitpick of their beloved PS3 they could see that the problem is that Capcom (or every other developer for the case) should have designed the game in a way that doesn't need that kind of HDD space just to get rid of loadings.

Before I've set 2 examples of what I would approve for this issue:

- Uncharted: no loadings, no installation. Simply perfect.
- Resistance: no loadings, 200MB installation or so. Acceptable.

And now 2 examples of what I WOULD NOT DO to fix the loadings:

- Ridge Racer 7: almost no loadings, 5GB installation or so. WRONG.
- Ninja Gaiden Sigma: no loadings, 5GB installation or so. WRONG.

Can you see the difference?. DMC4 will be in the second category, something barely acceptable after games like Uncharted or R&C (which don't have any loadings or very short loadings and don't require gargantuan installations) were launched recently.

Don't get wrong with this, I'm all over less or no loadings in my games. That's AWESOME. But I don't approve to fill 5-fucking-GB of my HDD with crap data just to achieve this, not when other games of similar complexity doesn't need it.

Will this be a reason to not purchase the game?. Absolutely not, it appears to be a fantastic game. It's just a nuisance, one that could be avoided if Capcom had designed the game in a more loading-efficient way.


PS: also I am worried about this because I don't want that this use of the PS3's HDD becomes a standard. The first games of the console needed to use 5GB of the HDD to get rid of loadings?. Understandable. But not in future games.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

The PS3 is supposed to be a great multimedia machine - a lot of people use it like this, storing movies photos and music on the drive. Sony are planning on releasing a TV tuner soon to let you record onto to let you record onto the HDD. Even with an 80GB machine, you could be running out of space pretty quickly if you're using it to it's full potential.

The people that got the 20gig ps3 knew what they bought. They couldn't have expected to use the ps3 as a multimedia device much as far as storing everything on their 20gig, or 17gig after os and everything, hdd. They always have the option to upgrade their HDD like some gaf members did when they got their ps3 20gigs.

 

[LOCK]

You do realise you can delete stuff off of your HD right? Are you going to argue that you shouldn't have to? Welcome to my world as a 20gig 360 owner.

You can delete what ever you want. But why go throught the process of deleting stuff when they could give you an option to download or not. The whole point is that its mandatory.

 

[Cruzader]

Im pretty sure someone posted this already but the reason the 360 doesnt have a mandatory install for the HDD is because the 360 universally doesnt come with an HDD such as the arcade xbox360 version, if the install was mandatory, they wouldnt be able to play it unless they bought an HDD.

 

[65536]

The people that got the 20gig ps3 knew what they bought. They couldn't have expected to use the ps3 as a multimedia device much as far as storing everything on their 20gig, or 17gig after os and everything, hdd. They always have the option to upgrade their HDD like some gaf members did when they got their ps3 20gigs.

I doubt people buying a 20gb machine were expecting 5GB mandatory installs.



So, GAF, which version do I get?

360:
Rumble
Achievements
Cross-game messaging / invites.
Better textures. (only minor from the comparisons I've seen, but a difference nonetheless)
More anti-aliasing.
3rd game on this engine on the 360 so it's bound to run well.

PS3:
No load times. (~5 seconds on 360 so no big deal)
Uncompressed audio. (big plus in my opinion)
Better video output. (most people won't care, I do)
PS3 buttons/layout better suited for it.
5GB required install though.
Costs £10 more. (£12 for the LE)
Need to buy a Dual Shock 3, adding £40 (DS3 supposedly doesn't cut out like sixaxis does, has rumble)
...It's kind-of why I bought my PS3

- Resistance: no loadings, 200MB installation or so. Acceptable.

How do I install Resistance to get rid of the loading?

 

[Dante]

Im pretty sure someone posted this already but the reason the 360 doesnt have a mandatory install for the HDD is because the 360 universally doesnt come with an HDD such as the arcade xbox360 version, if the install was mandatory, they wouldnt be able to play it unless they bought an HDD.

Does the 360 version give you an install option?

 

[Jirotrom]

Basically if every game requires a 5gig install and you have a 20gig PS3 then you are being forced to upgrade. Not everyone can afford such a luxury people. Also not everyone wants their games installed. I thought the whole HDD for consoles was a neat feature to be able to download game demos and try them out?

What is this installing games bullshit?

then what the fuck are they doing owning a PS3? This mandatory download thing is taken out of proportion. Just fucking uninstall if you need to clear out room. People have been doing this on PC for friggen years...hell I've already had to delete tons of crap of my 360 drive numerous times.

 

[test_account]

pretty sure almost nobody considers that a valid option.

Maybe, but it depends on how much people want more space for a cheap price Just buy a cheap 3.5" HDD and put it in a HDD bay or something, then connect it to the PS3. Eventho its external, you do have some nice HDD bays that looks pretty nice.

 

[Dante]

I doubt people buying a 20gb machine were expecting 5GB mandatory installs.



So, GAF, which version do I get?

360:
Rumble
Achievements
Cross-game messaging / invites.
Better textures. (only minor from the comparisons I've seen, but a difference nonetheless)
More anti-aliasing.
3rd game on this engine on the 360 so it's bound to run well.

PS3:
No load times. (~5 seconds on 360 so no big deal)
Uncompressed audio. (big plus in my opinion)
Better video output. (most people won't care, I do)
PS3 buttons/layout better suited for it.
5GB required install though.
Costs £10 more. (£12 for the LE)
Need to buy a Dual Shock 3, adding £40 (DS3 supposedly doesn't cut out like sixaxis does, has rumble)
...It's kind-of why I bought my PS3


How do I install Resistance to get rid of the loading?

:lol Where did you get that from? Brian Inathar on the 1up show said the PS3 looked much better.

 

[65536]

then what the fuck are they doing owning a PS3?

The 20GB option was for people that wanted a cheap PS3, and they had an extra year to save.

 

[Ynos Yrros]

If the Sony fans on this thread weren't so obnoxiously defensive about every nitpick of their beloved PS3 they could see that the problem is that Capcom (or every other developer for the case) should have designed the game in a way that doesn't need that kind of HDD space just to get rid of loadings.

Before I've set 2 examples of what I would approve for this issue:

- Uncharted: no loadings, no installation. Simply perfect.
- Resistance: no loadings, 200MB installation or so. Acceptable.

And now 2 examples of what I WOULD NOT DO to fix the loadings:

- Ridge Racer 7: almost no loadings, 5GB installation or so. WRONG.
- Ninja Gaiden Sigma: no loadings, 5GB installation or so. WRONG.

Can you see the difference?. DMC4 will be in the second category, something barely acceptable after games like Uncharted or R&C (which don't have any loadings or very short loadings and don't require gargantuan installations) were launched recently.

Don't get wrong with this, I'm all over less or no loadings in my games. That's AWESOME. But I don't approve to fill 5-fucking-GB of my HDD with crap data just to achieve this, not when other games of similar complexity doesn't need it.

Will this be a reason to not purchase the game?. Absolutely not, it appears to be a fantastic game. It's just a nuisance, one that could be avoided if Capcom designed the game in a more loading-efficient way.


PS: also I am worried about this because I don't want that this use of the PS3's HDD becomes a standard. The first games of the console needed to use 5GB of the HDD to get rid of loadings?. Understandable. But not in future games.

And on 360, takes 7GBs of your HDD space, has load times.

It's rather take the no load ties and 5GB install then load times and 7GB taken from my HDD for no apparent reason.

 

[twofold]

DMC3 had custom controls, I don't see why DMC4 wouldn't.

Stranger things have happened. We live in a world where game developers make nonsensical decisions all the time.

if this is the case then whats the problem?

People love to bitch, I guess.

 

[Dragon]

Patches, forced installations...

I miss the days when consoles didn't have to deal with this.

But then what would you complain about? Wait how the games actually play? Holy crap what a concept.

 

[Kintaro]

So, in the spirit of this thread. I went to check on how much space I have left on my HD. Was at 23/60. Huh, interesting. So, I went into the saved data folder. Wow, a bunch of games I either a) don't have anymore, b) don't play anymore or c) rented in the past and are done with are on there. Huh. So, I deleted the data and now I'm at 40/60. Craziness.

Now you guys try. =)

 

[ShowDog]

The install should really be an option, not a requirement. Faster loading times are great, but what about 3 years from now when you own 6, 7, even 10 games that require install? 20 GB drives will long have been full, and 40 GB drives probably will be too with Home and all the other additional content PS3 will support. Want to spend 30 minutes playing some DMC4? Aw, you'll have to delete another install and spend 20 minutes installing the new one. Then back around again when you want to play the other game.

Long-term, this solution to loading sucks. Short-term, enjoy your DMC4!

 

[angelfly]

Does the 360 version give you an install option?

No, it'll most likely just cache data if theres a hard drive.

 

[Dante]

So, in the spirit of this thread. I went to check on how much space I have left on my HD. Was at 23/60. Huh, interesting. So, I went into the saved data folder. Wow, a bunch of games I either a) don't have anymore, b) don't play anymore or c) rented in the past and are done with are on there. Huh. So, I deleted the data and now I'm at 40/60. Craziness.

Now you guys try. =)

No I must have that huge useless data on my HD at all times.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Maybe, but it depends on how much people want more space for a cheap price Just buy a cheap 3.5" HDD and put it in a HDD bay or something, then connect it to the PS3. Eventho its external, you do have some nice HDD bays that looks pretty nice.

it's only cheaper if you already have a spare external power supply...

 

[Ynos Yrros]

So, in the spirit of this thread. I went to check on how much space I have left on my HD. Was at 23/60. Huh, interesting. So, I went into the saved data folder. Wow, a bunch of games I either a) don't have anymore, b) don't play anymore or c) rented in the past and are done with are on there. Huh. So, I deleted the data and now I'm at 40/60. Craziness.

Now you guys try. =)

You need a PS3 to do that.

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

:lol Where did you get that from? Brian Inathar on the 1up show said the PS3 looked much better.

The guy with the Ken avatar that got banned said so... dunno beyond that...

EDIT:: Certainly looks that way from the scans... kinda dissappointing since I'm pretty sure Capcom mentioned there'd be some level of AA... PS3 version doesn't seem to have any and it actually cost more money... ... ...

<3 Capcom <3

 

[C- Warrior]

None of these really scream "oh man, that's really something new" aside from the unlearning skills thing. Not that it matters, because if DMC4 were simply DMC3 in hd I would buy it.

What changes did you want? Tell me?

You have a new character
You have a character that plays fundamentally different
A new contextual mechanic that changes per enemy and per boss
new level up system
larger environments
more varied environments
a sword state mechanic (revving your sword, which is essentially altering stances)
dante, instant weapon and style changing (it doesn't get anymore goddamn in action games)
more emphasis on story
more emphasis on platforming via the devil arm
more rpg elements

Did you want DMC4 to be a first person shooter? Or did you want it to include some ass backward retarded blocking system ala Heavenly Sword?

Speaking of which, what action game innovates more than DMC?

The style system -- innovated by DMC3. You are already seeing action games use that mechanic.

The instant weapon swap (done right) in DMC3, you already seeing action games use that mechanic.

The devil arm system in DMC4 (I PROMISE YOU) action games are going to start having some 'grapple mechanic' in future titles.

Instant style swapping (just like instant weapon changing, other action games are going to incorperate this)

Mission select (carry over stat system) games like NG2 all of a sudden are incorperating it. Hmm.

Don't down DMC4 for not being 'innovative' enough, when it's usually the franchise that influences other action titles. What does god of war have? Shenmue button presses? What does Ninja Gaiden 2 have? More blood? What did God of War 2 do that was so innovative to God of War 1?

This is some random reviewer bullshit that just because RE4 changed from RE3, that now every Capcom sequal must do the same. News flash, RE4 changed because the previous RE game-mechanics were beyond fucked up.

If you look at it, RE4 became more like a DMC game. (better controls, more action, more streamlined, faster, better view perspective, more bosses, more enganging in gameplay etc.)

 

[The Faceless Master]

And on 360, takes 7GBs of your HDD space, has load times.

It's rather take the no load ties and 5GB install then load times and 7GB taken from my HDD for no apparent reason.

18-13=7

brilliant math

 

[rollingstart]

Is the ps3 controller layout being better suited than the 360 official? I really want a demo.

yeah.

apparently they didnt tweak the controls so they expect you to use the bumpers a lot instead of triggers on the 360 because the PS3 uses R1/R2 as major buttons.

 

[AKingNamedPaul]

Really shouldn't be feeding into this but the huge game trailers comparison video thread (wasn't it compressed wrong or something?) made the 360 textures look sharper.

 

[FFChris]

:lol Where did you get that from? Brian Inathar on the 1up show said the PS3 looked much better.

The review says it. Well, the AA bit anyway.

 

[65536]

And on 360, takes 7GBs of your HDD space, has load times.

It's rather take the no load ties and 5GB install then load times and 7GB taken from my HDD for no apparent reason.

360 game cache (just over 2gb I think) Xbox backwards compatibility (over 3gb?) hard drives don't give you the advertised capacity. (the rest) Would be nice to have the option to get rid of the backwards compatibility to free up some space though. (but then again, I did just buy Psychonauts) That's why I have an Elite now, 13gb wasn't enough for me.

Is the ps3 controller layout being better suited for the 360 official? I really want a demo.

The face buttons seem better for fast presses in my opinion. The actual layout of the pads is similar, I just think it'll work better on a Sixaxis/DS3. Will definitely try the demo and see which I prefer though.

 

[Francias Castiglione]

And on 360, takes 7GBs of your HDD space, has load times.

It's rather take the no load ties and 5GB install then load times and 7GB taken from my HDD for no apparent reason.

The 7Gb is a reserve for caching games (both 360 and original XBox)

 

[Loonz]

And on 360, takes 7GBs of your HDD space, has load times.

It's rather take the no load ties and 5GB install then load times and 7GB taken from my HDD for no apparent reason.

I can't understand what are you trying to say here. I am not talking about the Xbox360 version because:

- I don't have that console.
- The version I'm going to purchase is the PS3 version, so the troubles of that version are the ones I'm concerned.

Maybe I am the only one here that uses its PS3 to the fullest of its media center capabilities (although gaming on it its the most important use by far). For me, 5GB of data to improve loadings are overkill, I could use that chunk of my HDD to put 5 seasons of Family Guy there, and that would be a better use of the space (for me, I repeat). Mainly when other similar games avoid loadings in a less-HDD-intensive, less-25-minutes-of-wait-the first-time and choose-between-install-or-not way.

 

[neojubei]

What new stuff does DMC4 have? Being able to change styles on the fly aside?

Nero's devil arm is one change.

 

[Y2Kev]

The bumpers suck for that kind of stuff. They aren't nearly deep enough.

 

[Jirotrom]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/152387.html?playlist=featured

 

[My Arms Your Hearse]

So we're almost to 500 posts and people are STILL BITCHING about the install requirement for PS3.

GAF KILL YOURSELVES. YOU'RE NOT WORTHY.

 

[Feindflug]

:lol Where did you get that from? Brian Inathar on the 1up show said the PS3 looked much better.

Kobayashi himself already said that both versions look nearly identical though. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the PS3 version looks much better...

Spoiler

*Borys mode enabled*

in fact it doesn't matter because Crysis on my 3000$ rig looks better than this crap! Crysis >>> all! blah blah blah consoles suck blah blah blah.

 

[Mr. Mister]

FYI: That's 2 MB.

No it isn't.

 

[LCGeek]

Is there any ACTUAL confirmation of the load times?

I mean, PC games have had HD install for years, and that doesn't mean there aren't load times, infact, load times can still be 20 seconds long with a hard drive install.

Just saying, I haven't seen any confirmation of load times being nil on the PS3 and 5 seconds on the 360.

If the above is true, that should mean there's no load times on the PC either, and I'm happy with that.

RE4's load times on the Gamecube & Wii were very fast (under 3 seconds) and didn't bother me the slightest, and it had no installing.

Not a fair comparison

The GC could transfer a ton quickly, CAV drive, and use the A ram to boot to get rid of load times. Not only that by the size of RE4 in comparison is way less than what a high end hd game would contain to transfer.

 

[C- Warrior]

I haven't nearly paid attention to this game as you have. I was only commenting on that post if that's all the new stuff the game apparently has to offer.

I didn't down the game at all. It just doesn't seem like a step up like DMC3 was, that's all. There's nothing wrong with that.



Well that's odd. I don't even have a problem with the bumpers.

All I'm saying -- is that people for some reason expect Devil May Cry to be the action game that influences everything else. And for the most part, DMC1 and DMC3 have. God of War 2 didn't innovate much. NG2 doesn't seem to be either. Fuck, Heavenly Sword was the most derivative peice of shit I've played. Yet no innovative qualms for that game.

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Kobayashi himself already said that both versions look nearly identical though. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the PS3 version looks much better...

Spoiler

*Borys mode enabled*

in fact it doesn't matter because Crysis on my 3000$ rig looks better than this crap! Crysis >>> all! blah blah blah consoles suck blah blah blah.

Kobayashi said there would be potential IQ differences because they went from PC to the individual platforms and that has apparently translated to being, from the looks of it, no AA on the PS3 version.

 

[xaosslug]

I doubt people buying a 20gb machine were expecting 5GB mandatory installs.



So, GAF, which version do I get?

360:
Rumble
Achievements
Cross-game messaging / invites.
Better textures. (only minor from the comparisons I've seen, but a difference nonetheless)
More anti-aliasing.
3rd game on this engine on the 360 so it's bound to run well.

PS3:
No load times. (~5 seconds on 360 so no big deal)
Uncompressed audio. (big plus in my opinion)
Better video output. (most people won't care, I do)
PS3 buttons/layout better suited for it.
5GB required install though.
Costs £10 more. (£12 for the LE)
Need to buy a Dual Shock 3, adding £40 (DS3 supposedly doesn't cut out like sixaxis does, has rumble)
...It's kind-of why I bought my PS3


How do I install Resistance to get rid of the loading?

your true motives in this thread revealed. Idiot. :lol

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

This RE4 mentality is bullshit. RE4 innovated because RE3 sucked..

WHAT THE FUCK...

IS GOING ON...

IN THIS THREAD?????

 

[test_account]

it's only cheaper if you already have a spare external power supply...

How much do those cost? I dont think they are too expencive. But anyway, at newegg.com you get 120GB 2.5" HDD for under $75. If space is lacking and its important, $75 shouldnt set anyone that much back. I guess you can get like $25 for the PS3 HDD as well if you sell it. But if they own a PS3 in the first place i guess they can afford $75 for a HDD with more space. Its an easy solution

 

[Y2Kev]

How in the world do you get better textures and AA?

don't forget, Andrew, you'll also need to buy a new couch to sit on if you buy the ps3 version to achieve the same comfort level afforded by the 360 controller, so now you're looking at the PS3 version costing 600 bucks.

 

[manngc]

- Ninja Gaiden Sigma: no loadings, 5GB installation or so.

Just so you know, the installation does not remove loading. The game still loads relatively frequently even with the installation (and granted the installation isn't 5GB, I think it's closer to 4GB). Just an FYI.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Because quite obviously they didn't get Blu-ray for the disk read rate but for getting the movies out so they can make cash off of it.

Again, double layer DVD's on Xbox 360 are not like 400x the read/seek performance of Blu-Ray discs on PS3 and both machines have 512 MB of RAM to fill and only one of the two has a standard HDD which does not hurt .

Still, people can sit on the fence yelling that more space is not needed.. people favoring ROM carts against CD's, people who championed CD's against DVD's, people that will champion current high-capacity discs against their successors, etc... you guys and gals are not the first nor the last ones that will do so.

I said it once and I'll say it again: perhaps ironically, an engine that originally seemed to match (between next-generation consoles) Xbox 360 best might reveal itself also as a potentially impressive weapon to show off what the extra disc capacity (50 GB vs 9 GB) can produce...

http://www.idsoftware.com/business/idtech5/


If it works as advertised, Tech 5 places texturing detail responsibility on the shoulders of whatever storage you load the MegaTextures from. They are not close to running out of RSX's VRAM space to sustain their automatic texture streaming implementation (which at its core is kind of what MegaTextures are all about).

Carmack did even mention in the Quakecon 2007 Q&A that with tweaks to the caching mechanisms Tech 5 uses for texturing you could realize a scenario consisting of a central server with hundreds of GB of MegaTextures stored and clients texturing from it.

 

[Killthee]

How do I install Resistance to get rid of the loading?

It's a mandatory cache that gets installed the first time you run the game.

http://i3.tinypic.com/715tu2p.jpg[IMG]

[b]I have the complete booklet for both version, if someone want something...[/B][/QUOTE]

Could you post the page on the PS3 manual that states that the install is mandatory.

 

[xaosslug]

All I'm saying -- is that people for some reason expect Devil May Cry to be the action game that influences everything else.

which I think is a double edged sward. DMC is THE action series as far as the genre goes, so I think everyone looks to it for 'the next step' in action games, so whatever tweaks and upgrades are made to the series go overlooked on account it won't do much for the genre as a whole.

 

[Pug]

The review which upon this thread was started states the graphics are the same although the 360 has better AA and less flickering of the shadows.