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Gamasutra: The Top 30 Developers of All Time
- Thread starter Zia
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They were founded in the late 80s bro - not really that new compared to some others in this list (Platinum, Mojang, etc.)
illmatic22
Banned
Well Sorry to disappoint you but ya won't get any rage from me. These guys are entitled to their opinion and I respect that. Even if I don't agree with it.
Are all of the Naughty Dog posters 14 or something?
w1gglyjones
Member
They aren't. At all. Which is why the person I originally responded to was wrong by saying that ND games somehow had outclassed all other action games this gen.
Dictator93
Member
One thing that is slightly off about the list is the lack of Relic or someother non-mainstream giant in RTS.
Westwood or Relic would have been fitting for that list.
Westwood or Relic would have been fitting for that list.
Narratively? Sure. Mechanics? No way. Not they're even comparable, but since everyone is running with this farce anyway, I'm biting.
Tell me how they defined anything and how other devs are mimicking them? Then tell me how Gears of War didn't already define the pop & shoot 3rd person shooters before Uncharted. Both series which owe almost everything to RE4 too.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
No R* is a horrible joke. They changed the industry and made a whole new genre.
They defined third person action shooter and other developers followed their footsteps.
They defined third person action shooter and other developers followed their footsteps.
SolidSnakex
Member
Yeah, those two being on the list are the most ridiculous inclusion of all. If the list is about influence on the industry, then neither of them are as important or as influential in this industry as Infinity Ward or Rockstar.
Open world games existed before Rockstar.
Uno Venova
Banned
I hardly ever take narrative into account when I'm talking about a game being better than the other, but these games are so different it doesn't make sense to get into a discussion about it anyway.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
You could claim the same of Vanquish and Bayonetta. They're not exactly innovative titles either.
Just to clarify but you're misreading what he is writing. He said very clearly that The Last of Us outclassed all actions this generation. Not all Naughty Dog games as you seem to imply in every post you make.
Calm down, re-read his initial post and it will all make sense.
Then you can still disagree with it, but you're just misrepresenting what he is saying.
I'm surprised people are overlooking the big omission and people here are jumping on the love or hate Naughty Dog thing when From Software isin't on the list either. The recent Armored Cores and Demon's Souls and Dark's Souls left them an honorable mention though, but with 2 of the most acclaimed games this generation I think they deserved a spot over Mojang and Riot or even ThatGameCompany or HAL. Their track hasn't been that good before some of their more recent games, but Betheseda, Rockstar, and Naughty Dog didn't make the list either with their amazing records.
revolverjgw
Member
ND is actually an older dev than most on that list and has had one of the longest runs. Relatively, they're an industry vet compared compared to most of those devs
Though judging by some people's reactions to them, I'd say it's not surprising that many think they started with Uncharted
Never Forget-
illmatic22
Banned
Oh FFS
Kenshin001
Member
I've played Journey. Great game but there isn't mature story telling. There is hardly any story at all.
Most nominees achieved that. It's not that R* doesn't belong to the list, it's more that it's already stacked as fuck. If it makes you feel any better, think of the list as "35'ish best devs ever" and include the honorary mentioneers into it.
The storytelling in Journey is better than in TloU. The themes aren't "mature" if you define mature by violence, sex and horror though.
"They" didn't release games together. GeoW came before Uncharted.
i know.
Tried and failed. UC2 was the first major catalyst to this interactive dynamic cut scene gameplay ideal. That is, what would have been a cut scene in other games was gameplay in UC2. Stuff like the moving train level, the collapsing building, the jumping from truck to truck whilst going around a mountain and so on and so on.
It's not about money, it's about talent and vision. UC2 didn't even cost that much. Considerably less than most blockbuster titles. As an example of the difference, you look at all train levels in any game ever, Killzone 2, Gears etc, then compare to the one in UC2. That is as clear cut as it gets as to the differences in the calibre of development talent when it comes to ND vs other devs. Last of Us excels as well, but for very different reasons. TLoU is the most emotionally poignant and mature game I have ever played. Everything about it, the realism, the deadly gunplay, the amazing characters and ambiguous and subtle narrative, the insane art direction and attention to detail, the intelligent enemy AI etc etc. As far as complete packages go, ND take the cake.
Looking Glass Studios is included. List is justified in my eyes.
I'm umming and ahhing over Rockstar. GTA pretty much defined the PS2 generation in a big way - much like CoD has defined the current one - but on the other hand, there's some pretty big clunkers around, too. Manhunt? Red Dead Revolver?
And yes, on that note, Infinity Ward? CoD is huge and defining the generation, that is an absolute. But have they brought the medium forwards? I guess that depends on just what you want from it.
Naughty Dog... is kinda affected by the fact that I don't think they made a *great* game until Uncharted 2. I *liked* Crash, but I thought it was significantly flawed. Jak was better, but the sequels missed what I liked about the first game. And Uncharted 1 was a big disappointment for me, although that may have been more because I *wanted* much more (and more interesting) platforming and puzzles and I was surprised by the sheer quantity of gunplay.
I'm umming and ahhing over Rockstar. GTA pretty much defined the PS2 generation in a big way - much like CoD has defined the current one - but on the other hand, there's some pretty big clunkers around, too. Manhunt? Red Dead Revolver?
And yes, on that note, Infinity Ward? CoD is huge and defining the generation, that is an absolute. But have they brought the medium forwards? I guess that depends on just what you want from it.
Naughty Dog... is kinda affected by the fact that I don't think they made a *great* game until Uncharted 2. I *liked* Crash, but I thought it was significantly flawed. Jak was better, but the sequels missed what I liked about the first game. And Uncharted 1 was a big disappointment for me, although that may have been more because I *wanted* much more (and more interesting) platforming and puzzles and I was surprised by the sheer quantity of gunplay.
Every game is born of iteration. RE4 wasn't the first game to use the over the shoulder shooting either, I don't know if someone did it before Splinter Cell, but I wouldn't be surprised. And cover based shooters are much older, at the very least Operation Winback on N64 is the first.
this is why I didn't respond to your first comment. whatever game I might list, you'll just cherry-pick something bad about it. stay entitled
Send this guy his check ND. Jesus. He's aching for it.
w1gglyjones
Member
No one ever claimed or said they were. No one is saying P* deserves or does not deserve to be on this list.
The claim was that TLoU outclasses all other action games from this gen. And I disagree. Just simply because it's not the same as other action games like the one I mentioned. Saying that they are all part of the "action" genre is silly.
By that EXACT logic, Rockstar should have definitely been on that list.
ND is actually an older dev than most on that list and has had one of the longest runs.
Though judging by some people's reactions to them, I'd say it's not surprising that many think they started with Uncharted
Never Forget-
Crash Bandicoot (1996 - PlayStation)
Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back (1997 - PlayStation)
Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped (1998 - PlayStation)
Crash Team Racing (1999 - PlayStation)
Jak & Daxter: The Precursor Legacy (2001 - PlayStation 2)
Jak II (2003 - PlayStation 2)
Jak 3 (2004 - PlayStation 2)
Jak X: Combat Racing (2005 - PlayStation 2)
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (2007 - PlayStation 3)
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (2009 - PlayStation 3)
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception (2011 - PlayStation 3)
The Last of Us (2013 - PlayStation 3)
Yes i would say they're more decent work is also the recent....
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
Never liked the Crash Bandicoot games, actually, but ever since Jak & Daxter Naughty Dog is way up on my list.
It's really not fair they didn't make it into the actually list
ND is actually an older dev than most on that list and has had one of the longest runs. Relatively, they're an industry vet compared compared to most of those devs
Though judging by some people's reactions to them, I'd say it's not surprising that many think they started with Uncharted
Never Forget-
how about their NSFW logo from the Mega Drive turd Rings of Power.
dude relax, just grab a Moutain Dew kick back and enjoy the fresh taste of lime. Moutain Dew is a great source of energy to keep you going through the day. And remember, just Dew the Dew!
MrCookiepants
Member
You could argue against Naughty Dog (you'd be wrong, though) but no Rockstar is crazy talk. I like thatgamecompany but come on. They don't deserve a spot over those two.
w1gglyjones
Member
Again, this list in a unordered list. It's "Top 30" plus honorable mentions, but it's unordered so it doesn't matter.
RoboGeorgeForeman
Banned
I was somewhat annoyed that Black Isle only made the honorable mention list, but hey it's just some random list on the internet.
Got hit by a bit of nostalgia when I saw Sega AM2 though.
Got hit by a bit of nostalgia when I saw Sega AM2 though.
Monty Mole
Member
Well this is 'off all time' so that's fair. No point in discrediting what they did prior to their MS days.Yet Rare made it!
So do you disagree then? What is the most emotionally poignant game you've played?
Have you even played TLoU?
amstradcpc
Member
I thought Gamasutra was a serious web. I supposse i was wrong...
I am talking about defining something. Which means you find a way to execute something so optimally and "naturally", that everyone follows because it makes too much sense.
What the hell are you trying to find out? "Emotionally poignant" is so wildly subjective that there's no point trying to pinpoint games that are objectively best at it. I had more feels playing God Hand than in TloU because of my personal preferences. That doesn't mean the story in TloU isn't very well executed and presented though.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
"Action" is a wholly subjective term though.
Trying to claim one doesn't fit into that neat pigeon hole while the others do doesn't necessarily apply. I would say The Last of Us is closer to survival horror more than action anyway and Vanquish is a third person shooter and Bayonetta is a hack 'n' slash, but then we're just getting bogged down in a meaningless debate over pigeonholing.
I still say The Last of Us is better than those games, action or otherwise, I'm just not sure why they're being pigeoholed or why "being innovative" should exclusive a good developer from the list.
Oh because The Last of Us didn't make me fall to my knees with tears in my eyes I clearly haven't played it. Get over yourself.
This.
revolverjgw
Member
There you go. Basically there's a 17 year gap between their first very important and celebrated PS1 classic and their most recent gen-defining title, a very VERY long prime run. Not to mention that this is a studio founded in the 80s. They're only "relatively new" compared to the oldest devs on that list, many of which are long gone, while ND have just hit their peak.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
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