I don't really like the 'demographics' argument really. But to swing it away from gender particularly, I appreciate it when you get more non-USA guests around - E3 and GDC and stuff are events where people fly in from all over the world, and it seems like a great time to get their perspectives on things.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Giant Bomb @ E3 2014 | Ice Cream Truck vs. The Electronic Three
- Thread starter Hot Coldman
- Start date
- Status
BUNTING1243
Banned
Okay these are just silly.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I mean, I wouldn't say I agree with her because her line of thinking brought her to some silly places (GB is sexist? give me a break), but she's the only one I saw bring it up so I agree with what initially riled her up being a concern.
LurkerPrime
Member
Vinny would never glare, he's a gentleman.
Wow, calling for a boycott of any panel that doesn't have multiple women on it? Not sure what that's supposed to accomplish. The point she's trying to make is valid, and one that's been on a lot of minds for a while now, but she comes across in a really off-putting way. I would love to see more women and other ethnicities not just on Giant Bomb, but in games in general. Patrick obviously always makes his best effort to be as inclusive as possible, and she's extremely dismissive of that fact.
mpgeist
Member
Im with you! They need him solo, like they had Ed Boon this year. Sometimes the large groups just end up with 1 or 2 people dominating the whole thing.
I'm with you... wouldn't go that far, but it is mildly dispiriting to see roughly similar demographics on most panels (GB or otherwise)
BUNTING1243
Banned
Same, although I think her "I am going to stop making excuses for MY friends" statement seems a little weird and self-serving.
According to Jurassic Park (so it's true) they can be both... So it's a wash
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Hey Patrick, I agree with the others that fewer guests per panel would be interesting. The Ed Boon one was perfect.
And I agree on trying to get Aisha Tyler next year, surprised she hasn't been on before.
And I agree on trying to get Aisha Tyler next year, surprised she hasn't been on before.
John Rabbit
Banned
(+) overall the best year of coverage so far. easily some of the best moments in Giant Bomb E3 history. greg miller, shuhei/adam + johnny v/langzone bro fest, zoe/rami/john blow/cowboy life affirmations. great stuff.
(+) Cowboy needs his own dumptruck/podcast/something. he expresses himself in a way that, even though 80% of what he's saying goes right over my head, is fascinating to listen to. He never seems to get enough time on mic, but I'm always glad to see him return. it'd be really cool to see him do a similar thing to what Brad Muir and Dave Lang have done, and sit down for a live stream of an Uncharted or even TLoU, and just offer anecdotes and insights as the game is played.
(+) fantastic job landing Shuhei (Brohei) and Phil Spencer. they obviously toe the company line, but it's amazing to see them in such a casual atmosphere, "hanging with the guys" so to speak. would've been great if you secured the trifecta and had Bill Trinen come down. even better if you had them all at the same table.
(-) overall, too many guests per segment. the conversations became too chaotic and fractured for any real discussion to foster. some people got lost in the shuffle (Sunset Overdrive guys, Euro journalist who's name escapes me, Jeff Cannata to an extent).
(-) Mikey Neumann. dude's got a sour attitude.
(-) not enough Vinny.
(-) doubly not enough Drew.
I'm of two minds about it. I'm one of those liberals banging the drum of more diversity in gaming (race, gender, you name it). But still, I want these live shows to have the most interesting guests regardless of gender and race. I love that there's a big focus on this stuff now, but I thought they had such a grat lineup of guests this year that I honestly can't say I would take many of them out just to get more diversity or whatever. If they could find more diverse panelists that were as interesting/funny as the ones they had, fine, but not to fulfill a quota. We have to remember how extremely white and male this industry still is, so any panel of interesting industry people will be mainly white and male if you try to find the most interesting people regardless of gender/race.
And yeah, she didn't exactly do herself any favour with all that sour hyperbole. It should be possible to make a point without dismissing everything about the site and calling them sexist. The comment about "If your site don't employ any women at this point, bye" (paraphrasing here) also ignores the fact that GB has only ever hired one person that hasn't more or less been there since the beginning and was part of a group of friends (Patrick). I'm sure Jeff would've hired a woman for the editor position if he thought she was the most qualified for the job.
Zomba13
Member
Yeah. This E3 needed more Vinny especially as it's the last time they will all be together for a long while. Drew could stand to be there more but he was in the coverage video and that was awesome.
Yeah, I getcha.
The best thing was that the guy was cut off during a lot of the segment. It's like everyone forgot about him.
Pyccko
Member
I thought all the guests were good, but one thing to do would probably be to have less folks on at once so there isn't as much talking over eachother and everybody can get some conversation in. It seemed like a few people had trouble finding a way into the discussion when it kept jumping around so often.
Okay, right, reading her tweets and her back and forth with Patrick, I see where she's coming from and she does raise some good points.
However, it does have a bit of the "Why can't you just do it?" whine a lot of people use when they feel their concerns aren't being actioned on. Elizabeth openly admits she's never even setup a podcast, yet she doesn't give any weight to the massive undertaking it is to book 50+ guests during the industry's most busy week.
It isn't just as simple as finding 50 random people who represent a wide demographic, it also involves getting to know them personally and their work. They also have to be relevant to Giant Bomb's interests - that sounds mean, but it's true. The vast majority of games they cover and play are mainstream AAA's and larger indies. Patrick can't fill the shows just with people like Zoe who represent personal and passion projects (not saying minorities are only doing stuff like that), so if Patrick can't find people who represent the games the viewers are interested in and are from a wider demographic and are willing/have permission to appear on camera, what is he to do?
I'm a minority myself, so I don't like this fact, but it's still a fact that the vast majority of the people who make the games we play are white men. While Patrick and Giant Bomb can absolutely help give a voice to those without one, they cannot change the industry single-handedly, nor pretend it's something it isn't, and we cannot ask them to turn their back on the people who make the games their viewers love in order to appear more fair.
mpgeist
Member
You also have to consider that these people all have their own schedules during a very busy time. It's not as easy as just picking times for people you want, when you want (assuming they want to come on the show, maybe not everyone wants to do it).
Edit: I think Patrick did a great job this year, he had big shoes to fill and it was his first time organizing for something like this.
Edit: I think Patrick did a great job this year, he had big shoes to fill and it was his first time organizing for something like this.
OdysseusVA
Banned
There were like 45 or 50 guests on the show and 5 of them women, that's actually very representative of the male to female percentage across the industry.
Thats not to say that that is what they should aim for, suggesting that PAtrick has to meet some quota is ridiculous. Its simply to say that facts are facts... this is an industry currently dominated on all sides by white males. Trying to invoke sexism and racism in places where there is none is wrong and does nothing to help the cause.
Thats not to say that that is what they should aim for, suggesting that PAtrick has to meet some quota is ridiculous. Its simply to say that facts are facts... this is an industry currently dominated on all sides by white males. Trying to invoke sexism and racism in places where there is none is wrong and does nothing to help the cause.
funkystudent
Member
Roman reigns is a white dude?
Hey guys, a bit OT but anyway... Anybody know the name of the guy interviewing Tim at 6:40 in that video? I KNOW I've seen him before but I can't remember his name.
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/e3-2014-grim-fandango-retrospective-by-2-player-pr/2300-9113/
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/e3-2014-grim-fandango-retrospective-by-2-player-pr/2300-9113/
AuthenticM
Member
I want to reiterate how awesome it would be if Aisha Tyler was on the panel next year.
Hey, she's a woman and black !
Hey, she's a woman and black !
Yep yep. Especially that Mikey guy. Every time he's on. he seems to piss off the other panelists, too. I'm pretty sure he tracks down the GB guys every E3. Then he forces himself into a chair and threatens to cut himself unless they let him sit for one segment.
John Rabbit
Banned
Yup. As I said, if they can find more interesting female/minority industry people, that's fantastic. But I wouldn't be a fan of swapping a potentially more interesting white and male panelist for a female/minority one mainly because that person is female/minority. I think all you can expect from GB is that they keep an open mind when finding guests and don't exclude anyone because of race/gender/sexual preference, and they find the best possible guests from that pool of people. Nothing more, nothing less. And as you said, I'm guessing the male/female ratio is 90/10 on the dev side, same with white/minority, so you will get a majority of white dudes. That's just how it is.
I'm a gay white dude myself. That Joystiq dude gave put some pretty major vibes, so maybe my demographic was represented on the GB panel for the first time this year?
Cool thanks guys... I'm watching videos of Computer Chronicles and Net Cafe on Youtube and not really recognize any of it but I must have seen one of his show at some point.
That reminds me, you guys remember the Dave Chalk Computer Show that used to air in Canada? With Dave Chalk and Mike Agerbo? Man...I remember the episode where they first showed Windows 98 for the first time. That shit had animated menus! Crazy stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IjY9YqLrQE
truth
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
As an asian myself I'm more offended by the lack of asian representation on the panel.
I guess it's harder to get equal representation when your most prominent figures in the industry are white males but I hardly think that not trying to balance the male:female ratio is sexism on GB part as much as it is just the unfortunate truth of the game industry,
No I'm not.
I guess it's harder to get equal representation when your most prominent figures in the industry are white males but I hardly think that not trying to balance the male:female ratio is sexism on GB part as much as it is just the unfortunate truth of the game industry,
I'm going to offer a billion qualifications because I know this is going to rub some people the wrong way. I love the site. No matter how bad the content is (and I think it's great), I intend to subscribe as long as Jeff is in charge out of gratitude for the hundreds or thousands of hours of enjoyment I've gotten from them. And I appreciate how everyone involved in the site, not just Patrick, is a consistent defender of inclusion and diversity in gaming.
But if I ran a site which had eight full-time employees who were all male, I would look to rectify that immediately. And I know that the circumstances under which the site was formed dictated who the first set of hires would be, and that a lopsided majority of the people in the industry are male, and the huge majority of people who just applied were probably male, and so on. I'm just saying that would be a priority for me and I don't blame outsiders who might tabulate the backgrounds of various panels and make judgments that seem unfair to people like us who follow the site religiously.
But if I ran a site which had eight full-time employees who were all male, I would look to rectify that immediately. And I know that the circumstances under which the site was formed dictated who the first set of hires would be, and that a lopsided majority of the people in the industry are male, and the huge majority of people who just applied were probably male, and so on. I'm just saying that would be a priority for me and I don't blame outsiders who might tabulate the backgrounds of various panels and make judgments that seem unfair to people like us who follow the site religiously.
I think that hiring a lady just for the face she's a lady is the worst thing somebody could do. The point is to hire the best person possible for the job. If that person happen to be a lady then great but skipping the most qualified person simple because he's a man or he's white is just as racist.
John Rabbit
Banned
you're assuming it's not a priority for them. they have to go with who will do the job the best, and if that happens to be a white guy, then who are they to blame? if all other qualifications are equal between two candidates, then by all means they should give strong consideration to the candidate who will bring more diversity into the workplace. not only for representation's sake, but just for variety and the benefit of adding new perspectives to a team.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Is there a podcast or E3 video of the guys talking Bloodborne?
The site only has six full time employees now (okay, eight with the new hires). But let's say that the most qualified person for the editor position was male, would you still hire a woman to get more diversity? I could totally understand it, but wouldn't myself. As you said, I'm sure over 90% of those who applied were male.
- Status