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Giant Bomb @ E3 2014 | Ice Cream Truck vs. The Electronic Three
- Thread starter Hot Coldman
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Day 3 Coverage Video http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/e3-2014-coverage-uncovered/2300-9132/ and somewhere in the AfterShow Day 2 video I think, but the latter is very long.
Yes, they haven't uploaded an interview/podcast about it yet. The Day 1 aftershow has them on if you want to check the out for some details..
JesseEwiak
Member
Again, how do you determine who's the most qualified person to talk about video games and occasionally write about them? I hate to break this to you, but yes, at a certain point, there's a level of qualification where yes, it's better to hire a woman or a person of color (or gasp, even both!) instead of another white guy. I say this as a white guy.
I have no interest in having this conversation in this topic, but making a conscious effort to diversify your staff is not "racist" against whites. And if this wasn't clear, I'm certainly not calling Jeff or the site racist or sexist.
ST2K
Member
The GB panel guest focus should always be great conversation. It's a highlight of E3 for many for a reason. It's entertaining as hell. This E3 we had some great moments with Greg Miller, Geoff Keighley, the indie panel with Luftrausers guy/Jonathan Blow/Zoe, Ed Boon, and the panel with Shuhei, John Drake, Johnny V, Lang, and Boyes. If any of those panels lost any form of charisma or chemistry because there was pressure to have people of a certain background on rather than them, then we wouldn't have these memories. And that would suck.
I'm not against having people with different backgrounds on. I'd just request that Patrick or Brad not feel any obligation to have whatever amount of non-white guys on the show. They should focus on who has something interesting or fun to say and see where that leads them. I assume that thinking led them to this year's guest list and the show was fantastic.
Now if we're saying Patrick and/or Brad excluded people because of their background, that's a different discussion. And I don't think any reasonable person would be making that accusation. However, if we're discussing any sort of quota (formal or informal) or pressure to have people on simply for the sake of diversity, I think it's a bad idea that would likely harm the show.
And just to add something, I don't think just adding more guests is an option at this point, since it already felt a bit overcrowded this year. The guys should just take their time and pick whoever is able to make it that can make for the best show they can manage. That's all I ask.
I'm not against having people with different backgrounds on. I'd just request that Patrick or Brad not feel any obligation to have whatever amount of non-white guys on the show. They should focus on who has something interesting or fun to say and see where that leads them. I assume that thinking led them to this year's guest list and the show was fantastic.
Now if we're saying Patrick and/or Brad excluded people because of their background, that's a different discussion. And I don't think any reasonable person would be making that accusation. However, if we're discussing any sort of quota (formal or informal) or pressure to have people on simply for the sake of diversity, I think it's a bad idea that would likely harm the show.
And just to add something, I don't think just adding more guests is an option at this point, since it already felt a bit overcrowded this year. The guys should just take their time and pick whoever is able to make it that can make for the best show they can manage. That's all I ask.
Of course that should be part of it, but it shouldn't be the only factor. Just being good on camera is somehing that probably excludes a large proportion of those who would consider going for the editorial position. Also, with Vinny in NY you now need someone who's naturally funny like he is. That right there narrows it down a lot, and yes, shows that there's some pretty particular demands if you want a job like this. The producer position on the other hand should be more open.
JesseEwiak
Member
Sure, but do you think there's a higher percentage of people who are good on camera who are white males as opposed to white females, black males, or Asian females? Yes, hire somebody who is qualified, but we're not talking about brain surgery here.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Well, if Dan is indeed coming to GB as part of the editorial stuff, I would certainly say that he is more than qualified for the post, seeing that his personality and the style of content he produces fits the site incredibly well. He would just be another straight, white dude though. Should he be overlooked in order to have equal representation on the site?
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Interesting to see Patrick plans on writing a post regarding the sexist/diversity concerns people have brought up, I am very curious to see what he has to say. I think I know the general tone it will have, given Patrick's feelings on many popular social issues, but will it be an apology or a defense?
No, but we're talking about a position I think it's safe to assume was applied to by a huge majority of white dudes. The position has some pretty particular demands, so it's a big chance that the hire is a white dude without that implying anything about their view on gender and race. That's all I'm saying.
GB has a very distinct profile as a site so I do feel that it's at least somewhat easier in this case to tell if someone's more qualified for the job.
That said, this discussion (with regard to GB) is futile since a) we don't know who the new hire is and b) we don't know who applied. Saying that Jeff should desperately look for a female hire is fine and dandy - I'd have loved to see Cara as the new member, myself - but we've got no idea who even came into consideration.
That said, this discussion (with regard to GB) is futile since a) we don't know who the new hire is and b) we don't know who applied. Saying that Jeff should desperately look for a female hire is fine and dandy - I'd have loved to see Cara as the new member, myself - but we've got no idea who even came into consideration.
AuthenticM
Member
That does not legitimize the accusations levied against Giant Bomb. It can explain why white males make up so much of the industry, but that's not what we're talking about here.
Giant Bomb is not like other websites. It is heavily dependant on personality and coworker synergy. Jeff can't hire anyone who simply has a great résumé. If that were the case, as it is at GameSpot and IGN, then yes, he could be blamed for hiring white males all the time. But that's not possible for him. He needs to take into consideration how that person would "fit in" with the gang and how he or she would add to conversations and discussions. It's a very tricky thing.
For years, I've been saying that should Giant Bomb hire a new person, Dan Ryckert would be the guy. And it's all but confirmed that he is the new guy. What does that say about potential candidates for Giant Bomb ? That the only person I've thought, for years, could have the job got it ?
If there ever was someone who would fit in with the gang and happened to not be a white male, then great ! That person should have a bonus point over other white male candidates. But, while I don't have the list of people whom Jeff has been considering for the past two years, it would be my guess that they are mostly white males. And that's not his fault, and shouldn't be called a sexist or racist because of that.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
If the new hires are white guys, I imagine the GB crew (Patrick in particular) feel pretty awkward right about now.
AuthenticM
Member
They shouldn't. Unless they willingly passed on a good candidate who was not that, but that would surprise me.
edit: didn't Carrie Gouskos lose her job recently ? Wasn't she at Mythic ? She would be a great addition to the crew, considering she has already worked with them.
I totally agree, but the problem is Giant Bomb is far more than just written editorial and light video content like the vast majority of publications out there. They're basically entertainers. Even before all this new hire stuff, Jeff has frequently said for years just how difficult it is to find people in this industry who are good on camera - GameSpot basically spent a year moving someone to the US just for this purpose.
Nobody can replace Ryan, but with this new hire they desperately need someone who can pick up on hosting duties - Jeff can't do everything himself, but Vinny's gone and Brad is terrible at it.
Here's the thing, with all the suggestions people came up with over the last month, there was not a single realistic female name that could fill this role. Look on Youtube or other gaming sites, are there any women out there who are currently informative and funny hosts like Jeff, Ryan or Patrick? The only one I can think of is Veronica Belmont and there's no way GB could afford her. Cara is great, and I'd love for GB to hire her one day, but she's not good on camera and would need a lot of experience before she could host anything.
You cannot blame Giant Bomb, a site with only four editorial staff, for hiring the person they need right now instead of a person they could eventually train. There are very, very few people who can fill the role GB needs.
Fighting racism is not about how we act, it's about how we think. If we're consciously diversifying this and positively discriminating that, even if we think of it as positive and inclusive, even if we think we're doing the right thing, what we're really doing is give credit to the idea that race and gender should dictate our actions, which to me sounds like the exact opposite of what we want.
If we could all ignore race and gender, not to the point of refusing to recognize and embrace our differences, but just enough so that it will not influence our decisions on a daily basis, I think we would live in a better world.
I realize it's a pretty big "if", and we can't just wait until everybody decides to stop being racist, so I'm not saying we just sit there and do nothing either. Ultimately I don't have the answers to these questions, and I don't think anobody does, really. It is a very complex problem but what I am absolutely convinced of though, is that these professional umbrage takers on twitter are part of the problem and not the solution.
If we could all ignore race and gender, not to the point of refusing to recognize and embrace our differences, but just enough so that it will not influence our decisions on a daily basis, I think we would live in a better world.
I realize it's a pretty big "if", and we can't just wait until everybody decides to stop being racist, so I'm not saying we just sit there and do nothing either. Ultimately I don't have the answers to these questions, and I don't think anobody does, really. It is a very complex problem but what I am absolutely convinced of though, is that these professional umbrage takers on twitter are part of the problem and not the solution.
Giant Bomb is in a really poor situation. Giant Bomb LA is skeleton crew now, and finally after two years (and losing an editor) their corporate overlords are allowing them to hire... One more editor? They need to find the funniest, most charming, most compatible person out there. They need to replace Vinny.
If that person is a girl, then super great! If they're not white, then super great! If it's another white dude, then that's kinda disappointing to me but if they're a great addition and a great replacement for the roles Vinny and Ryan played then Giant Bomb doesn't deserve to burn at the stake for it.
If that person is a girl, then super great! If they're not white, then super great! If it's another white dude, then that's kinda disappointing to me but if they're a great addition and a great replacement for the roles Vinny and Ryan played then Giant Bomb doesn't deserve to burn at the stake for it.
njean777
Member
No, shows how much she knows. Also she didn't even comment with how inclusive they were being. They had a dinosaur, kangaroo, and a samoan (Reigns) male on their cast the whole time.
ThreePiMatt
Member
And the Queen of England. And I'm pretty sure she's a woman.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
I agree that a problem with GB can be being the "white guy show". But I also feel is a tricky situation to manage given that the charm of the site is the chemistry with the staff. Of course, that doesn't mean that automaticaly excludes a gender or race,
I suppose I should say that I would like that GB get out more often of their comfort zone (in regards of variety, staff and opinions) as their are already pretty good in taking chances.
I suppose I should say that I would like that GB get out more often of their comfort zone (in regards of variety, staff and opinions) as their are already pretty good in taking chances.
Theres where it breaks down though: the person advocating for change and have giant bomb have more diversity seems to be more inclined to be upset over the exclusion of women. And making snide sarcastic comments is not a mature way to introduce a topic like that.
People should get positions based on merit rather than their chromosomes or color of their skin. What is the point of hiring any but their first choice? GB is primarily popular because of their personalities and how they get along with each other. Adding someone in can be chaotic for them as it is and they've taken an appropriate amount of time after Ryan's death to figure out how it's going to work. I think it's really silly to encourage them to hire anyone but their first choice. By hiring someone diverse strictly because they're diverse they're actually poster childs for discouraging diversity because they're treating them differently than other people.
njean777
Member
I really like this post, it is my exact feelings.
The analogy is a bit weird but bear with me for a second. The whole situation is reminding me of something that has been happening in Québec for years.
As you can see from my avatar, I'm a huge fan of the Montréal Canadiens hockey team.
Now, since Québec is the only part of North America where the majority of the population speaks french, there's been some recurring tension over the years between the french Canadians and the rest of Canada (and even the US too to some extent). One way that tension has manifested itself is that every single year, when the NHL does its draft day to recruit the new players there is a group of people here in Québec who screams for the Habs to draft french canadian player no matter how good they really are.. Simply based on the fact that "it's our team so we should have french speaking players representing us".
I'm french canadian myself, hell my parent are even semi-hardcore separatists and yet this whole thing is PISSING ME OFF. Our goal should be to get the best player that will eventually help us win the Stanley Cup... The fact that the dudes speaks french, english or russian in the dressing room is the least of my concerns.
Funny enough, we got a perfect example of that earlier today. Back in 2009 the NHL draft was actually done in Montréal (it change city every year) and the Habs staff had enormous pression from a segment of the population to draft a kid named Louis Leblanc (you guessed it, he's french canadian)... Now I don't have anything against the kid but there was clearly more skilled players still available to draft once our turn came. The end result? The kid never broke through to the NHL and we traded him this morning against a conditional 5th pick (aka they could have offered us a pack of new hockey sticks and we would still have accepted the trade)...
Anyway, /rant off...sorry about that but I had to say it.
As you can see from my avatar, I'm a huge fan of the Montréal Canadiens hockey team.
Now, since Québec is the only part of North America where the majority of the population speaks french, there's been some recurring tension over the years between the french Canadians and the rest of Canada (and even the US too to some extent). One way that tension has manifested itself is that every single year, when the NHL does its draft day to recruit the new players there is a group of people here in Québec who screams for the Habs to draft french canadian player no matter how good they really are.. Simply based on the fact that "it's our team so we should have french speaking players representing us".
I'm french canadian myself, hell my parent are even semi-hardcore separatists and yet this whole thing is PISSING ME OFF. Our goal should be to get the best player that will eventually help us win the Stanley Cup... The fact that the dudes speaks french, english or russian in the dressing room is the least of my concerns.
Funny enough, we got a perfect example of that earlier today. Back in 2009 the NHL draft was actually done in Montréal (it change city every year) and the Habs staff had enormous pression from a segment of the population to draft a kid named Louis Leblanc (you guessed it, he's french canadian)... Now I don't have anything against the kid but there was clearly more skilled players still available to draft once our turn came. The end result? The kid never broke through to the NHL and we traded him this morning against a conditional 5th pick (aka they could have offered us a pack of new hockey sticks and we would still have accepted the trade)...
Anyway, /rant off...sorry about that but I had to say it.
Defenestrated Donut
Neo Member
He would only be overlooked if he were more skilled than every woman available for this position. As this is clearly not the case, he would not be overlooked.
Not only is what "skilled" means in terms of being suitable for GB up for debate (highly subjective in terms of entertainment value -vs- professional value) but I'm not sure there has ever been an official lost of people who applied for the job.
I'm of two minds here. I think Dan, assuming he's the hire, will do a great job and I 100% understand why Jeff would hire him. But if the next hire and the next hire and the next hire all go to close friends of the site who have a strong rapport with the group, it's pretty clear from these various streams that we're eventually going to have a site with 15 white guys (or maybe 14 and Cara Ellison). If they want to be more diverse, eventually they're going to have to take a chance on someone.
And again, directed at no one in particular, no one is calling anyone racist or sexist. Some of us just wish the site made diversity a higher priority.
Castle Doctrine
Member
It goes without saying, but it sucks having just about zero vinny in the E3 coverage. It would have neen nice to at least see him in the behind the scenes video. That was a good video, brad came alive a bit and patrick was informative and entertaining.
Defenestrated Donut
Neo Member
Race and gender already dictate our actions. Recognizing this reality and attempting to combat it is not "positive discrimination." Attempting to nullify white privilege doesn't result in white genocide.
Its up to Jeff to decide who meets the qualifications for the job. We don't even know who applied for the job, we arent the ones sitting in on the interviews, or mulling through their resumes. I'm certain he's going to choose the person that will bring the most to the cast. It might be a woman, it might be a person of color, or it might be a another white guy.
JesseEwiak
Member
Do you not see color like Stephen Colbert's character?
call_kotaku
Member
I agree with the fewer guests per panel thing, even if it means breaking the evening into more chunks. It seems a bit awkward to have a 6-person panel and it effectively just being a conversation between 3 people, especially since Jeff already sort of has to direct the discussion so each person gets their "piece", so to speak.
As for having more gender diversity and whatnot, I think setting up one or two discussions with a majority of female guests might be better than just taking some sort of ratio of representation approach. When a girl or two is sitting on a panel with a number of male guests, with many of them being very large personalities, they aren't going to get much of a chance to really get a word in and every interaction will be in the context of "as a girl in a large group of guys". People incorrectly attribute a lot of that sort of awkwardness to something that girls (or atleast gamer girls) do, but it's really just a consequence of how these sorts of situations are usually set up
As for having more gender diversity and whatnot, I think setting up one or two discussions with a majority of female guests might be better than just taking some sort of ratio of representation approach. When a girl or two is sitting on a panel with a number of male guests, with many of them being very large personalities, they aren't going to get much of a chance to really get a word in and every interaction will be in the context of "as a girl in a large group of guys". People incorrectly attribute a lot of that sort of awkwardness to something that girls (or atleast gamer girls) do, but it's really just a consequence of how these sorts of situations are usually set up
Giant Bomb has been in existence for 6 years. In that time Jeff has been able to make 1 hire. How do you know how high priority it is for him?
This whole staff diversity conversation feels rediculious. Someone has taken aim at Giant Bomb because it's an industry darling that gets talked about a lot, and instead of putting their 4 editorial staff into perspective compared to the dozens similar sites employ, she's angry that Jeff hasn't been able to magic up a position for a woman.
Seriously fuck that. It gives zero appreciation for what Jeff and others have had to do over the years just to keep the site in existence. It stinks of someone who has never built anything in their life, nor had someone else's livelyhood in their hands, sitting back and judging others for not doing what they want.
I'm pretty sure more people work at Giant Bomb than Jeff and this "one" other hire. Even if you don't want to count Ryan, Brad, Vinny, and Alex as hires (and I don't see why you wouldn't count them), that still leaves way more than one hire.
JesseEwiak
Member
Well, we can also look at the people that show up on their streams and look, it's mostly white guys. Which isn't surprising. But still, it proves that when it comes to people appearing on GB streams, if Patrick didn't exist, it's highly likely would've been Leigh Alexander, Carrie Gouskas, and that's about it in the past few years.
Sorry, this is a "don't attack the job creators" argument. I have plenty of appreciation for what Jeff, Ryan, Brad, and Vinny has done. But, that also doesn't mean I can point out their entire circle that shows up on streams, podcasts, and such tends to be other white dudes. That doesn't mean they're bad people. However, it also means that if they want to expand beyond that, they'll have to bring in people they haven't been to 15 E3's with.
Patrick was asking for recommendations in this thread. So make them, this is the time and forum* to actually get something you want.
*pun not intended.
Exactly this. I only care that the people they invite or hire are of good merit. This should be the only criteria for selection.
Aggressive backseat spewing du jour toward a random website is awful, for sure.
I think the people in this thread are pretty much in agreement, even though they might not realise it. We can all concur in our appreciation for more diversity on gaming sites, including GB, while acknowledging that blatant labelling and accusation are altogether unwarranted in this case, especially due to the fact that we don't know about who exactly applied for the job, but not exclusively, as outside of them manning their staff (get it?), the GB crew has been nothing but inclusive - or at least trying their best.
Even in this point we can agree that more variety in the selection of guests would be conducive to the richness of the discussion, and since this was Patrick's first year handling invites, I'm sure he'll take our concerns to heart for next E3, or whenever the next time will be that he is tasked with assembling a panel.
I think the people in this thread are pretty much in agreement, even though they might not realise it. We can all concur in our appreciation for more diversity on gaming sites, including GB, while acknowledging that blatant labelling and accusation are altogether unwarranted in this case, especially due to the fact that we don't know about who exactly applied for the job, but not exclusively, as outside of them manning their staff (get it?), the GB crew has been nothing but inclusive - or at least trying their best.
Even in this point we can agree that more variety in the selection of guests would be conducive to the richness of the discussion, and since this was Patrick's first year handling invites, I'm sure he'll take our concerns to heart for next E3, or whenever the next time will be that he is tasked with assembling a panel.
HamPster PamPster
Member
Speaking of diversity, hopefully Patrick made some contacts at E3 and can start getting some fresh guests for Bombin the AM. I don't just mean women either (although he needs to do a better job at that obviously) but to expand outside his small circle of friends. I'm not surprised to see a majority of the guests bombin' has had so far pop up on the E3 podcasts. Someone needs to expand their rolodex
Of course that's assuming he even wants guest to be a major part of the show anymore. With Vinny in town who knows what will happen
Of course that's assuming he even wants guest to be a major part of the show anymore. With Vinny in town who knows what will happen
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I think he does pretty well. I don't think zoey or cara would be acquainted with giantbomb before he came on.
The site always gave me the vibe of "hey, I made a website with my friends." Diversity is nice and all, but considering how vicious people can be in this thread about people who breaks their dynamics, I wouldn't be surprised if they prioritize liking a person and seeing how much they meld with the group over being a minority.
In what persons little warped mind is a Samoan a 'white guy'?
Fallout-with-swords
Banned
As you can tell from my avatar I hate your guts and worship Phil. But I completely agree. Diversity for diversity's sake would be a bad idea. I feel like GB does a great job of reaching out to those in the gaming community who are doing cool things, whether that's things that interest them or their community. And hopefully we will continue to see more females and non-white developers on panels and as guests. But I feel like we can't really ask for anything more than that. In terms of hires GB are the one's who have to live with that decision, race or gender shouldn't be tipping the scales in the matter, it should be whoever is best for the job and I don't think they could have picked anyone better than Dan. Assuming he's the new hire.
Fallout-with-swords
Banned
Yeah. I feel like the conversation happening in this thread better fits the industry as a whole than GB.
The same person who thinks the Queen and a T-rex are also white dudes.
Well T.Rex the band was fronted by Marc Bolan who is white so I will give her a pass for that one. The Queen and the New Tonga Kid are inexcusable examples though.
When you have a narrative pre-established in your mind everyone is white.
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