Baleoce
Member
This is what should be taken away from the original debate. A well balanced and fair reflection.
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GT IW: Marcus Beer strikes out at Jon Blow/Phil Fish over XB1 indie GI coverage
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This is what should be taken away from the original debate. A well balanced and fair reflection.
mullet2000
Member
You implied you were taking the other side by saying Fish was "the wrong side" and you were fine where you are
For the record I think they both acted like asses. But Beer started it and said some pretty awful shit. Can't just call Fish "the wrong side" here.
CorySchmitz
Junior Member
Ugh jesus are people still really complaining about "hipsters". Marcus Beer seems super annoying.
Phil Fish is a great dude in real life. I can't imagine the shit he has to deal with every day. 100s of tweets of people telling him how much they hate him.
Phil Fish is a great dude in real life. I can't imagine the shit he has to deal with every day. 100s of tweets of people telling him how much they hate him.
It's a very rage inducing hobby man
You know on a tad different note, IW continue to be such a disappointment. I remember the very early days of the show and it was much more enjoyable. I thought Shane leaving would help improve things but nope. Back to EBC I go
Phil Fish's comment on the matter.
next day (bottom to top again):
This is also howI feel about MS right now. I want their heart to be in the right place, and hope that XBO ends up having a fabulous ecosystem of games and gamers, but I just can't right now.
Also, this:
Although I do need to add that Blow and Fish are awfully happy to pile on when MS news is negative. It is a coincidence that they are both fed up when the news (rumor) is positive.
#teamCBOAT
Like every other famous person who doesn't throw a tantrum about it.
CorySchmitz
Junior Member
Yup.
VeryGooster
Banned
Why are "sides" even a factor? This is crappy behavior all-around.
Snapshot King
Member
Yeah, I'm well aware of that. My issue doesn't come from the point of view of defending the japanese games biz or what have you. It's the hubris of a guy standing up and telling people that their games suck when his own game has languished in development forever. I gave him a pass at the time, depending on Fez' quality. However then Fez does come out, and is rancid garbage, and then as a cherry on top, he acts like a child with the patch situation and fucks over his most rabid fans.
ShockingAlberto
Member
No?
Do you mean when I said "it's not binary" so as not to misconstrue calling out something really appalling as defending the opposition?
Or is this some weird meta-point where you think it will show me what-for by purposely misinterpreting what I said to show me that, oh man, I could be totally wrong and Fish wasn't being out of line at all!
Or am I giving you too much credit?
freenudemacusers
Member
marcus beer is xbox one, blowfish is ps4. internet is wii u.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
I genuinely hope Phil finds a therapist to help him deal with the constant stream of bile he gets everyday (not by Marcus, by the internet). He acquired an audience, made some poorly thought out statements about thing people like, and has become someone who is 'cool to hate' on the internet. He has voiced multiple times how he is hurt by this situation, but he must understand it's not going to go away if he continues to act like he does. It is how the internet works.
He must either accept this and learn how to not let the comments get to him, or dial down his act/move away from twitter entirely. Either option will do; his current way of handling things simply does not seem like it's good for his mental health.
He must either accept this and learn how to not let the comments get to him, or dial down his act/move away from twitter entirely. Either option will do; his current way of handling things simply does not seem like it's good for his mental health.
However, looking at this from the opposite view/opinion: Many people though Fez was a delightful, magical experience. You can claim that some reviews are biased, but to receive near universal praise for your game (89%/90% on MC) says that it's at least decent. Therefore from that view, his criticism is valid. Also, no surprise on the patch. Why should he have to pay $10k to drop a small patch to fix his game?
I'd be pissed too. That isn't to say the guy isn't a giant turd, but rancid garbage? Com'n, bro.
Haunted
Member
C'mon now, Fish and Blow have never needed prodding to have an opinion on Xbox-related matters but now they're upset because people want their opinion? It's extremely hypocritical and annoying as hell that they want to complain about it. They brought the attention onto themselves
Snapshot King
Member
Because he signed the deal and it was therefore his responsibility. For him to shirk that responsibility and say "Too bad people who bought my game, the evil corporate mans is fucking you" just because he's too cheap to own up and fix his own game is shameful.
Also I'm not calling him rancid garbage, I'm calling Fez rancid garbage. A game that fails to work on its core principle and so has to fall back on a baby simple cryptographic key puzzle where the only difficulty is finding the key and brute forcing the language. Terrible. Awful. Couldn't make a good game so he made two shitty ones and wrapped them in a charming wrapper.
How is this going to work when he wants to sue Marcus for libel again?
Hahah, this is honestly pretty amazing. And he's right. This Marcus Beer guy comes across as a huge prick in this whole thing.
It's weird when Fish and Blow are the more rational and reasoned ones in a discussion.
This Beer guy is a complete shithead and really needs to get over himself. I'd never heard of him before and I probably wont hear of him again after this. He doesn't matter.
The director Eric Anderson has a great quote about this, "Standing for something is really hard, too many people in this industry get by by just hating everything as if hating something is an idea. Standing for something is ultimately harder and more courageous."
Sitting behind the title of games journalist and just bitching about everything is probably the lamest way I've ever heard of to make a living. Fish actually makes things for a living, that thousands (millions?) have enjoyed. That is difficult, and a proud accomplishment.
bigboss370
Member
marcus beer calling other people dicks? how ironic.
Excuse me then, It'll make people who are games "journalists" or "opinionists" (like Marcus Beer) more eager to complain about you.
Happy now?
polyh3dron
Banned
i know blow and fish are generally dicks, but it doesn't mean they're not right.
GillianSeed79
Member
What Jonathan Blow said on twitter which Markus must be referring to as GameInformer doesn't have any quotes by him:
(twitter, so bottom to top)
Both sides kind of look bad IMO. I may be mistaken, but didn't GI confirm the self-publishing as fact and that it wasn't a rumor, pissing off Microsoft in the process?
It's kind of hypocritical to complain about how game journalists suck at journalism when they actually break a story that could be considered journalism. On the other hand, the way the game media works is kind of laughable as evidenced by Blow's tweet. It sounds like GI broke the story and then everyone else emailed Blow and Fish something along the lines of, hey Game Informer is reporting that Microsoft is allowing self-publishing can you give us a comment? The correct way to do it would be to try to get that information yourself and then reach out to Fish or Blow for comment.
I'll put it this way. It would be the equivalent of, say, The New York times breaking a huge story and then the Washington Post copying and pasting the story with a lead that reads "The New York Times reported today that...."
The same thing happened when Patrick Kelpek from Giant Bomb broke the MS 180 story. Intsead of trying to get comment from MS, most sites at the start reported "Giant Bomb is reporting that MS is doing a complete 180..."
That being said, Blow and Fish are two of the most visable figures in the indie scene. It's a little childish to call people names if they send you a question. Just decline to comment or don't respond. And if that happens and you don't get a response, the journalist shouldn't call them hipster tosspots.
Beer is a personality though. His show is called annoyed gamer. I actually like Beer BTW and Blow and Fish. Yeah, it was dumb to call people names, but grow some thick skin. The thing that annoyed me about Beer's rant is that the games should speak for themselves, not their creators. I hate when people say, man, I like Braid, but that Jonathan Blow is a pretentious dickwad or Fez is great, but Fish is a hipster salad tosser.
Judge them by their games not their personalities. For example, Fez on 360 had a save bug. By all means you should be able to call out Fish for that. As far as Blow, I liked Braid, so I can't really speak ill of him, but if The Witness turns out to be boring and suck then by all means we should be able to call out the game.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
You make it sound like these tweets to him just fall right out of the sky. Phil has tried to play the victim before, but he is so often an asshole.
mr teaspoon
Member
Oh please. You know as well as everyone else here that 'kill yourself' has become a thing. It's not a genuine call for suicide, and Marcus Beer's apparent past issues with mental health don't make it any less harmless.
Let's see how he feels 48 hours from now.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
People saw the japanese guy leave after the question (and felt bad for him), people laughed at him after the answer and then he was being polite and saying it was nothing. Or you telling me that didn't happen?.It wasn't a direct insult but he acted as a douche and gave a shit answer to mock the guy. You can bend it whatever you want but is pretty much what happened.
But if you don't want to admit his poor attitude in that case, there's plenty of other cases in he shows his full 15 year old insults and douche attitude, that whatever hate he receives is not right at all.
mullet2000
Member
I didn't read your previous posts, so I didn't know you said it's not binary.
Sorry I misinterpreted you. I think you can see why I thought you meant what I thought you meant though. But my bad. No need to attack my intelligence in the process, also.
Yes, I understood that you were calling the game rancid garbage and not him. You can call him as many names as you want and I'm cool with it. Just saying it's your opinion about the game. Many enjoyed it. He had already released a previous patch to fix some of the performance issues, so I imagine with the amount of revenue coming in from sales, combined with the additional bar each patch represents in cost, it was financially prohibitive and he decided not to patch.
Is he a dick? Yes
Do other, larger companies do this all the time? Yes
Look at any situation where a recall is required in the auto industry, or any actions requiring payments from the healthcare industry. Many times, health companies will deny claims the first few times, even if they are legitimately covered by the policy (just to see if they can get a person that won't dispute the denial).
Is any of this stuff right? No. Would I probably do the same as Fish if I were in his shoes? Yes. It's a business and 1% of the people playing the game were impacted.
ShockingAlberto
Member
If only Fish had told him to kill himself, then everyone would have taken it lightly and recognized it as completely harmless.
This is my takeaway as well. Is this really the kind of thing we need the games media getting up in arms about, let alone downright insulting?
There are so many things wrong with his post I don't know where to begin
Taking Blow out of the equation here. How in jesus fuck does Phil Fish look more reasoned? He told Marcus to kill himself, threatened to sue, lied about cancelling FEZ II then locked his twitter account. All while Marcus invited him on his show to defend himself. Beer's comments were dickish. But holy shit this is on a different level.
So making judgements of a man who you didn't even know, classy.
You would have a point if Fish acted like the better man and just ignored/mocked him. Be he didn't
Two things. Firstly, straight from the horses mouth
Marcus Beer Himself said:
Secondly, is having a negative opinon about something always bitching. Is criticism not allowed anymore?
This is absolutely true. But it doesn't matter if you're the fucking president. Twitter is an equaliser. If you act like a dick you act like a dick. Sorry
That Joystiq article means literally nothing.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Journalist or not it doesn't excuse hijacking a video to insult them and their games unjustly.
But I expect you to have some smart arsed reply, apologist.
Oh great. I'm an apologist now. Despite me pointing out that I had problems with Beer's comments. Of course I have to be one fucking thing or the other.
Beer is acting like a jackass too, but that doesn't excuse the ability to read.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Bit more than a jackass, using GT to publicly and personally insult two developers and their games because they got a bit pissy for being constantly emailed over Microsofts indie policies?
Neuromancer
Member
I don't even agree with Marcus; if Phil Fish and Jon Blow don't want to comment and would rather make snarky comments about games media that's their prerogative. But god damn what an overreaction from Fish. There's no excuse for acting publically like that.
Ciastek3214
Junior Member
Does that excuse Fish in the slightest though?
Also, that apologist remark was way out of hand and completely detracted from your point.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
wait wait wait wat
please tell me fez II isn't cancelled
please tell me fez II isn't cancelled
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
I'm not excusing Fish but imagine someone coming up to you asking you the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and other people shouting insults at you wishing you got hurt etc..
Eventually you would just crack like Fish has.
I don't give a toss what you think about my apologist remark, you seem to be the only one picking apart everyone's post piece by piece to try and defend him.
ElectricBlue187
Member
I don't care about the journalist in question and Blow doesn't come off as an asshole to me but Fish is just too much. Every goddamn day it's more twitter drama with this dude, quit the histrionics and make great games again.
DeadRockstar
Member
Not an apologist, but you're quick to dismiss reasonable posts on the basis of a distinction that doesn't even change the point being made.
Marcus doesn't escape from being held accountable because he isn't a journalist(which you seem to have acknowledged), so hand-waving posts away with "Sigh. Another one." is just uncalled for. Save that for somebody who is actually being unreasonable or twisting facts to suit their agenda, not somebodies whose point was perfectly clear despite the inaccuracy.
I am not defending him in the slightest, where are you getting this from. Both of them are arseholes.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Blow and Fish do indeed come across like two cocks. But so does that Angry Gamer guy. This is only the second time I've seen him and he's bothered me both times.
Thought the name calling was a bit sad if I'm to be honest. He could of easily got the point that these two guys are tools across without calling them all the wankers of the day.
Thought the name calling was a bit sad if I'm to be honest. He could of easily got the point that these two guys are tools across without calling them all the wankers of the day.
Teletraan1
Banned
Beer battered Fish.
Fine, I see your point, I apologize for that. But some people trying to portray Fish as somehow not accountable for what he does. Which is bullshit.
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