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[Franchuzas87]

Nothing interesting, as usual.

 

[Coen]

Mario and DK have evolved as little as every other pre-SNES-era genre. They were fun then and they're fun now. I'm sure Super Mario 3 then and New Super Mario Bros. now cointain more pure hours of single player fun than all of today's 60 dollar shooters.

 

[KarmaCow]

Well it's not like he's wrong about not evolving or whatever, but the 2D Mario and Donkey Kong games since the SNES were banking on that.

Kirby games, for better or for worse, change with every title though.

 

[Mako_Drug]

I would say that as franchises Mario and DK have not evolved or changed at all and as a result I have zero interest in their properties in that regard. However, as far as gameplay is concerned I think IGN couldn't be further from the truth...about Mario at least

 

[Goldmund]

Sometimes its nice to see an article like this to remind myself why I don't visit gaming "journalism" sites like IGN.

I think you should, though. Like it or not, IGN articles aren't just click baits. They do inform (and sometimes mirror) the opinion of a majority of English speaking gamers.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

A quote from his blog.

How does that make any damn sense? The Wii is more powerful than the N64 and GameCube!



Article writer is an anti-platformer jerk it sounds like, and he's whining that platformers are becoming popular again and companies aren't churning out even more brain dead FPS tripe.

 

[Auto_aim1]

I love Mario, Donkey Kong and Kirby as much as the next guy.

Why does a negative article always start with "I love X but.."

Anyway yeah, technical improvements are needed though.

 

[Mafro]

A quote from his blog.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Stumpokapow]

thought the thread title quote was talking about the mario vs donkey kong sub-franchise and would factually be incorrect.

Yeah, honestly Mario & Wario -> Mario vs DK -> Mario vs DK2+ is a pretty huge genre leap.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

IGN being fucktards.

News at 11.

 

[_Alkaline_]

I think you should, though. Like it or not, IGN articles aren't just click baits. They do inform (and sometimes mirror) the opinion of a majority of English speaking gamers.

 

[meppi]

This makes me wonder how many years it's been since I last visited a site such as that.
I honestly don't remember.

And at the same time, looking at the preview, I'm glad that I made the right decision.
Don't have to be curious if they got better or worse since quit reading their literary diarrhea.

 

[Erethian]

How does that make any damn sense? The Wii is more powerful than the N64 and GameCube!



Article writer is an anti-platformer jerk it sounds like, and he's whining that platformers are becoming popular again and companies aren't churning out even more brain dead FPS tripe.

If you follow his logic the people he should be blaming are consumers. But you don't get an article published by saying how dumb people are for buying the latest Nintendo platformer at retail.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Why does a negative article always start with "I love X but.."

Anyway yeah, technical improvements are needed though.

It's equivalent to saying you have a friend of a certain race before making a racist joke or comment.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

thought the thread title quote was talking about the mario vs donkey kong sub-franchise and would factually be incorrect. but then it turned out to just be opinion piece garbage. oh well

Same. I thought this was about the Mario vs. DK puzzle games which are BTW awesome.

 

[Codeblue]

I think you should, though. Like it or not, IGN articles aren't just click baits. They do inform (and sometimes mirror) the opinion of a majority of English speaking gamers.

You almost certainly worded this incorrectly.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Yeah, honestly Mario & Wario -> Mario vs DK -> Mario vs DK2+ is a pretty huge genre leap.

Wasn't it more DK '94 -> Mario vs DK?

 

[Jazzem]

What bothers me is the checklist mentality of the quote about 5.1 sound/HD/etc. Isn't there a danger of judging our games in such a mechanical way?

Donkey Kong Country Returns is easily one of my favourite games of the last few years, and this whole idea that platformers should be thought of as weirdly inferior? Well that's not unnecessarily limiting is it :/

 

[jgminto]

I knew it was going to be IGN Australia. It's almost always IGN Australia.

 

[Goldmund]

You think the yellow journals all over the world are simply read ironically by those who know better?

You almost certainly worded this incorrectly.

In what way?

 

[Maxrunner]

Are they talking specifically about 2d mario??Also how does DK Returns has less content than Limbo?? Limbo is great but its a 4 hour thing at best....

 

[onken]

It's obviously a stupid article but damn you can taste the bitter from OT in here.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

These titles don't have the added bonuses of HD graphics, online play, leaderboards, true 5.1 sound and the potential for DLC expansions.

:lol
These games have the added bonus of great and leghty gameplay, though, and that's what matters.

 

[Randomizer]

You think the yellow journals all over the world are simply read ironically by those who know better?

No unfortunately, they are read by ignorant people who don't know any better.

 

[Codeblue]

You think the yellow journals all over the world are simply read ironically by those who know better?


In what way?

I read that as you implying we should care what IGN has to say because they inform and mirror the thoughts of gamers. I just dont think that IGN and the people that follow IGN reflect popular opinion.

 

[Zane]

No unfortunately, they are read by ignorant people who don't know any better.

Yeah that was kinda his point. Guess who makes up the majority! It is true that IGN influences the opinion of Bob Jackass.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I read that as you implying we should care what IGN has to say because they inform and mirror the thoughts of gamers. I just dont think that IGN and the people that follow IGN reflect popular opinion.

Factually, both Mario and DK have moved to 3D. The 2d versions are still more popular, despite being released more recently. Their position is indefensible with an appeal to authority.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Wasn't it more DK '94 -> Mario vs DK?

Yeah both DK '94 and M&W were around the same time and they both have an influence on the series as it continued.

(I'm actually in the middle of my first DK '94 replay in about a decade right now!)

 

[Deleted member 81567]

These titles don't have the added bonuses of HD graphics, online play, leaderboards, true 5.1 sound and the potential for DLC expansions.

 

[Codeblue]

Factually, both Mario and DK have moved to 3D. The 2d versions are still more popular, despite being released more recently. Their position is indefensible with an appeal to authority.

Well yeah, but his arguement has nothing to do with how factually correct IGN are, just that they have enough pull to spread that misinformation to a meaningful degree. I don't think they have such a huge influence on the gaming public as a whole or even mirror the thoughts of the majority of people who buy or play games, and therefor can safely be ignored.

 

[Goldmund]

I read that as you implying we should care what IGN has to say because they inform and mirror the thoughts of gamers. I just dont think that IGN and the people that follow IGN reflect popular opinion.

That is what I said. »Popular opinion« of gamers, yes, not of people in general.

If you think it's of worth and advised to challenge these opinions, you should be well acquainted with them. You'll have to leave this circle of like-minded people, witness the customs and rites of the people. Only then you can witness to them the Good Word that will shatter their clay statuettes.

I don't mean that people on here share the same opinions -- quite the opposite, we're a pretty diverse bunch for a forum of gamers -- but the way we deal with these differences is what forms and (for better or worse) distinguishes the group.

 

[MarshMellow96]

So, uh, Super Mario Galaxy?

 

[jambo]

Exactly the same.

And I always said that mario would benefit from 5.1 sound and DLC.

 

[Randomizer]

So, uh, Super Mario Galaxy?

He was referring to the 2d platformers like New Super Mario Bros and DKC Returns.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Fact: Kirby on the NES is the same as Kirby on the Wii.

 

[Gustav]

Fixed it for you.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Heh another "damned if you do damned if you don't" scenario. You just know if the Mario franchise did these things we'd see a "did Mario lose his way?" article.

 

[British Monsoon]

Those quotes remind me of practically every mainstream gaming media review of modern SHMUPs, where sites like IGN routinely criticise the games for not having online play, not having spectacular next-gen graphics or for simply not being long enough. Reviewers like this gleefully ignore what it is the target audience wants and expects from SHMUPs and when one criticises a title for not being all that much different from it's ancestors they are usually right in a basic sense, but often utterly fail to understand that under the familiar surface it's the MECHANICS of the game that have evolved, with complex and in-depth scoring systems adding in high score-based longevity beyond the traditional 1 credit complete goal.

The same can be said of 2D platformers. To the naked eye the genre has not evolved much at all since the first Super Mario, but that's because it doesn't really need to. Platforming moved into the 3D realm in the 90's, and with it came some real evolutions to the genre, but that progression hasn't at all diminished the desire for 2D platformers within the eyes of the gaming public. And that should tell IGN something, maybe that the 2D platformer formula doesn't NEED to evolve all that much. It just needs to keep providing intriguing settings, well-designed levels and challenging and fun 2D platformer gameplay.

 

[Gustav]

Heh another "damned if you do damned if you don't" scenario. You just know if the Mario franchise did these things we'd see a "did Mario lose his way?" article.

I think the problem is not necessarily the new Mario games but rather the lack of new "hardcore" friendly IP.

 

[SovanJedi]

Good fuckity God, are they still complaining about recent 2D Mario platformers not having flashy HD graphics and superfluous bullshit? What about the fantastic gameplay they bring back to the fray, classic in its oldschool appeal yet refined from years of design experience?

There's as much content and replayability in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Donkey Kong Country Returns as there are in any of the big AAA blockbuster bollocks titles coming out this day and age. I admit the idea of DLC stages and worlds would be nice, but honestly there are so many levels in these games already it's not like it's seriously begging for it. Limbo is an experience, true, until you finish it once and never touch it again. But it's not wrong to make a game just to be FUN. Games are, at the core of it, meant to be FUN.

Why do some of the IGN staff still find this so mindnumbingly hard to comprehend?

 

[Ushojax]

These titles don't have the added bonuses of HD graphics, online play, leaderboards, true 5.1 sound and the potential for DLC expansions.

Just a troll article to get hits.

 

[Dragon]

I don't see what Nintendo is supposed to do. Sure they can add some of that stuff that the author listed, but the games sell. Why would they change it when they sell 20 million copies? Where's the incentive? Are they really going to get more than 20 million sales if they make it more 'hardcore'? New Super Mario Bros. Wii is an extremely fun game, no matter how archaic the gameplay actually is.

 

[teruterubozu]

Mario bashing + angry nerds = hits

Simple as that.

 

[plufim]

IGN Nintendo articles: wanting Nintendo to be something they're not since the early 2000's.

 

[Somnid]

Nintendo, the perpetual underdog.

 

[Phat Michael]

You can't spell IGNORANCE without IGN.

my fave gaming quote of 2011 - 2nd place goes to Ice T saying Horde Morde at E3.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

I don't see what Nintendo is supposed to do. Sure they can add some of that stuff that the author listed, but the games sell. Why would they change it when they sell 20 million copies? Where's the incentive? Are they really going to get more than 20 million sales if they make it more 'hardcore'? New Super Mario Bros. Wii is an extremely fun game, no matter how archaic the gameplay actually is.

Clearly, games being fun isn't enough anymore.

 

[Gustav]

Clearly, games being fun isn't enough anymore.

Actually, in some case it really isn't enough anymore. Some games have ambition beyond being "fun".

 

[kinggroin]

The really laughable bit isn't actually the DLC thing; I'd love extra Mario levels and I loved the ghetto-DLC for SMB3 on GBA via eReader levels. And I would like leaderboards--most of the games in question have local leaderboards anyway, might as well make them actually useful. And I would like online play especially in ground-up co-op games like DKCR and NSMBWii. So those bits aren't crazy to me. I mean, the point they're supporting is pretty damn crazy, but those things are good things.

... The thing that's crazy to me is the "true 5.1 sound". Really? In a 2d platformer? How could there be true 5.1 sound? The game takes place on a flat plane; sounds can only come from the left or the right. Why on earth would they benefit from 5.1 sound?



Super Meat Boy.

Just playing devils advocate here. I imagine a game where enemies jump into the main plane from behind you? I imagine you can take advantage of 5.1 positional audio that way.

That's all I got.

 

[Ellis Kim]

I haven't read the entire article, but man, the choice quotes in the OP are horrendously short-sighted, and dare I say 360-biased? Leaderboards? Really? How's that koolaid?

I'm not sure if the article's author meant traditional sidescrollers when he referred to "platformers," as per later examples, but to say that the platforming genre is no longer in the same ballpark as a Mass Effect or Red Dead is a horrendous blanket statement that should have never been published.

A camera angle and plane of movement does not dictate the value of a game's worth. What shortsighted and shoddy thinking Excepting LBP doesn't count, either. What he is observing isn't a truth, but a trend in developed titles for the market as it stands, along with concept approval practices by the various platform holders and publishers.

Name me a 2D platformer that's been published on the 360 in disc-form that isn't an XBLA compilation.