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[Dorfdad]

I didn’t break out a tape measure but plenty of the girls at my gym look

You can have good story while still have attractive character design, like Nier Automata and 13 Sentinels.

Tomb raider from 20 years ago proved this already.

If stellar blade had one of these as the main character not a single preorder would have happened.

BTW this is the average American Women according to google.

 

[March Climber]

if you want to you can even compare it to Death Stranding which they use actual actors

Asian devs dont actively make character look old and beat up most of the time.

This is why I was saying non-celebrity late 40s caucasian. I know that her and Léa Seydoux pass the test for you guys. Not many people discuss 40-50 year old caucasian female celebrities in a good light(I know people here believe in 'the wall'), but I know that people here will also use outliers even when I say things like 'on average'.

 

[March Climber]

Let's do this one

I don't even see the freaking point of this. It's not like MJ in SM2 is way more mature and seasoned than the first one. She has exactly the same type of personality, motivation, and behaviors. And pretty much all other returning characters remain the same faces from Spiderman 1.

Oh you misunderstand, I'm not about to step into the ring and argue this stuff for the 100th time, I'm specifically talking about Danjin44 's example. Someone else can have fun dissecting your Mary Jane example. If you want to claim this post as an argument win, then I guess feel free

 

[Shake Your Rump]

This shit is so strange. Beastiality, no woke western media gave a hate boner.

I suspect because there is no industry based on bestiality outrage. Meanwhile, we have people who, both professionally and as a hobby, profit from outrage over attractive women.

 

[Danjin44]

This is why I was saying non-celebrity late 40s caucasian. I know that her and Léa Seydoux pass the test for you guys. Not many people discuss 40-50 year old caucasian female celebrities in a good light(I know people here believe in 'the wall'), but I know that people here will also use outliers even when I say things like 'on average'.

My point celebrity or not most often than not western devs prefer to make character look old and beat up because to them its much more "relatable".

 

[March Climber]

My point celebrity or not most often than not western devs prefer to make character look old and beat up because to them its much more "relatable".

But wouldn't this just come down to cultural differences? Like how Japan/Korea constantly focuses on youthfulness in stories, movies, games, movie stars, music stars, etc. They also cycle out their older leads and make them suits so we normally don't get to experience 'weathered old man' stories as much as we should.

I still remember Square Enix celebrating the fact that Clive was their oldest FF protagonist ever and the guy was only 33 years old.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I dunno, man, I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to make women less hot in games, it just isn't as much of a focus as realism and getting a good match for the actor to convey performances better.

A game like this, they probably don't give a shit about acting or story so whatever, make her hot, right? It's clearly working as the game's main selling point, but I don't think it's the rebellion against the woke warriors that you think it is.

Microsoft has an entire manifesto about making female characters less "curvy", and they don't mean less fat women. They literally mean less women with feminine curves (the "Coke bottle" shape).

So yes, there's an absolute intent from Microsoft and arguably like 90% of Western major devs/pubs to make women less attractive in games to avert the "male gaze". No coincidence many of them have the same half-shaved haircut, loaded up tattoos, tons of piercings all over, and using non-conventional looking women (or using good-looking women and suddenly changing their faces to look less attractive).

A good example of this is the character from Control; the real-life actress is gorgeous and while I don't think the in-game model looks "bad" per se, they definitely changed her face to look more masculine. Another example is Debra Wilson; I love her work on MAD TV but why is every 1 in 3 black women in a Western game modeled after her these days? Why not someone lie Tyra Banks instead?

So yeah, a lot of things being done in this regard feel intentional, to "destroy the male gaze" and "defeat toxic masculinity", things that making female video game characters less attractive will 100% not change in any meaningful way.

 

[Deerock71]

 

[LectureMaster]

Oh you misunderstand, I'm not about to step into the ring and argue this stuff for the 100th time, I'm specifically talking about Danjin44 's example. Someone else can have fun dissecting your Mary Jane example. If you want to claim this post as an argument win, then I guess feel free

My man, no need to be so defensive, we are here to have good discussion, claim a win? I'm not that childish.

Back in topic, I'm glad you know good about Kim Hyung Tae's past work and guy's signature is indeed exaggerated body ratio.

But I'd say that Eve's figure is way closer to the Shin Jae-eun rather than the illustrations. We have the video of her doing the scanning and I wouldn't say her body is a far cry from the in game model.

 

[March Climber]

My man, no need to be so defensive, we are here to have good discussion, claim a win? I'm not that childish.

Read my post again but in a non-combative tone. I'm not being defensive, what I'm essentially doing is stepping away from that conversation. There are days and times where I find it fun to argue the opposite from the majority opinion, but I have already said my piece about topics(like Mary Jane) in past threads. People here have even linked the face model's instagram account and even showed candid side profile pictures of her. It's all out there for everyone to see. At a certain point it simply is best left to personal opinion.

I would only hope that the ones who believe in conspiracies are right, because I couldn't imagine being the actual actress who was scanned 1:1 with new face tech and seeing things like 'huge chin' 'ugly' and 'looks manly' across the entire internet if deep down it were true that it was my actual face, simply scanned without any makeup or filters. I could imagine someone having self-image issues for the rest of their life after a moment like that.

From saying all that, I'd rather just have a fun side conversation with Danjin44

Back in topic, I'm glad you know good about Kim Hyung Tae's past work and guy's signature is indeed exaggerated body ratio.

But I'd say that Eve's figure is way closer to the Shin Jae-eun rather than the illustrations. We have the video of her doing the scanning and I wouldn't say her body is a far cry from the in game model.

I will say that you and ChorizoPicozo are both right. Her body is the closest HTK has come to keeping realistic proportions in a protagonist, and at the same time modifications were still made. That's sounds like an agreement lol.

 

[DragonNCM]

This is our next triple AAA game from MS & main female protagonist

 

[Danjin44]

But wouldn't this just come down to cultural differences? Like how Japan/Korea constantly focuses on youthfulness in stories, movies, games, movie stars, music stars, etc. They also cycle out their older leads and make them suits so we normally don't get to experience 'weathered old man' stories as much as we should.

I still remember Square Enix celebrating the fact that Clive was their oldest FF protagonist ever and the guy was only 33 years old.

that also true but western devs used to make sexy design as well but today western culture, sexy design is considered “immature” in their eyes.

 

[March Climber]

that also true but western devs used to make sexy design as well but today western culture, sexy design is considered “immature” in their eyes.

Do you think some of this might be due to these same leads being older and more mature in age(and possibly having family/kids), considering the age of the AAA companies these games are coming from?

 

[Crayon]

Kind are, western devs like make their character look old and beat up for sake be "realism"

I mean even JP game with more "realistic" visual style still have attractive character design...

Compare to western devs

Not sure what game it's from, but that older woman seems perfectly appropriate (and a really good model) for a somber setting. I think there are better examples.

Mary Jane is actually egregious. Spiderman is more like a summer flick and she should be broadly appealing aka conventionally cute. Instead, and I'm not into insulting women's looks, she's not everyone's cup of tea to say the least.

 

[LectureMaster]

Read my post again but in a non-combative tone. I'm not being defensive, what I'm essentially doing is stepping away from that conversation. There are days and times where I find it fun to argue the opposite from the majority opinion, but I have already said my piece about topics(like Mary Jane) in past threads. People here have even linked the face model's instagram account and even showed candid side profile pictures of her. It's all out there for everyone to see. At a certain point it simply is best left to personal opinion.

I would only hope that the ones who believe in conspiracies are right, because I couldn't imagine being the actual actress who was scanned 1:1 with new face tech and seeing things like 'huge chin' 'ugly' and 'looks manly' across the entire internet if deep down it were true that it was my actual face, simply scanned without any makeup or filters. I could imagine someone having self-image issues for the rest of their life after a moment like that.

From saying all that, I'd rather just have a fun side conversation with Danjin44

I will say that you and ChorizoPicozo are both right. Her body is the closest HTK has come to keeping realistic proportions in a protagonist, and at the same time modifications were still made. That's sounds like an agreement lol.

It's all good man. Absolutely understand some time we just want to step away from the takes, lol. I like your chill and reasonable way when like you said argue the opposite, this is the way of engagement I respect.

I think the most face model actors/actresses are more influential than ordinary online people but they are not the true celebrities level. So my guess is that the devs paid them good enough to not care the modification of their scanned model.

 

[LectureMaster]

Not sure what game it's from, but that older woman seems perfectly appropriate (and a really good model) for a somber setting.

 

[Danjin44]

Do you think some of this might be due to these same leads being older and more mature in age(and possibly having family/kids), considering the age of the AAA companies these games are coming from?

Thats my core issue just because you older that shouldn't mean you cant enjoy attractive character in games and movies. What exactly "immature" about attractive design?

Not sure what game it's from, but that older woman seems perfectly appropriate (and a really good model) for a somber setting. I think there are better examples.

She is Tess from TLOU PS5 version.

 

[March Climber]

It's all good man. Absolutely understand some time we just want to step away from the takes, lol. I like your chill and reasonable way when like you said argue the opposite, this is the way of engagement I respect.

I think the most face model actors/actresses are more influential than ordinary online people but they are not the true celebrities level. So my guess is that the devs paid them good enough to not care the modification of their scanned model.

To be fair, I think this stopped being the case once the crazier fans contacted her place of work(her primary medical job) about this nonsense. That kind of crossed a line, all over an in-game model.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Let's do this one

I don't even see the freaking point of this. It's not like MJ in SM2 is way more mature and seasoned than the first one. She has exactly the same type of personality, motivation, and behaviors. And pretty much all other returning characters remain the same faces from Spiderman 1.

That is not true. They changed Peter's face too and he looks worse than he did in SM Remastered. So at least they are being consistent.

 

[Musashipan]

Exists where? Not in S. Korea for sure, majority is flat with cute faces which most of time is due to surgery. Latinas might get close.

 

[Crayon]

Thats my core issue just because you older that shouldn't mean you cant enjoy attractive character in games and movies. What exactly "immature" about attractive design?


She is Tess from TLOU PS5 version.

Ah that's quite a change. While I think their motivation was to make her less attractive for the sake of it, and that is really the point here, the less attractive version seems at least as appropriate for that scene. Seems like it's supposed to be serious and on one I'm kinda instantly thinking 'would'. On the other, I'm thinking of a random woman in a struggle like a family member or something. But again, my personal preference wasn't the point. They probably did do this for the woke sake of it.

 

[March Climber]

Thats my core issue just because you older that shouldn't mean you cant enjoy attractive character in games and movies. What exactly "immature" about attractive design?

And this is where I think a middleground should be found. I think mature attractiveness can be done without being sexual, a.k.a. classiness, but it's a difficult tight rope to walk. However, I also think that it's okay to have plain-looking, ugly, or old protagonists in games. The problem is that neither side of this argument want to do a handshake deal about this. It's either all sexy or all too realisticly plain.

Also regarding more plain/grounded looks, I asked this before in a different thread, but it's good to ask again:

What was the point in all of that technology Sony/Xbox was showing off at multiple GDC and E3 conferences about finally being able to do older, dirtier, uglier, and more wrinkled faces with blemishes with recent graphical plateaus they've reached, if gamers just want everything to go back to smooth, young faces? Was all of this a waste of time?

 

[Astral Dog]

but maybe not in the USA

 

[Jordoon]

So every single video game character needs to be realistic now? If her proportions are considered unrealistic by someone, who cares. I don't think there's any reason to defend the body type of a video game character, from either point of view.

Trying to come up with reasons of how she actually is realistic is just as pointless as coming up with reasons of how she isn't. It's an artistic design choice of a fictional character. The reasons for designing her like that are obvious, and if someone doesn't like it, nobody is forcing them to play or interact with the game at all.

At this rate it won't be long before all depictions of people in all forms of media, either real or digitally created, become nothing but formless ugly blobs

 

[darrylgorn]

What was the point in all of that technology Sony/Xbox was showing off at multiple GDC and E3 conferences about finally being able to do older, dirtier, uglier, and more wrinkled faces with blemishes with recent graphical plateaus they've reached, if gamers just want everything to go back to smooth, young faces? Was all of this a waste of time?

 

[Danjin44]

And this is where I think a middleground should be found. I think mature attractiveness can be done without being sexual, a.k.a. classiness, but it's a difficult tight rope to walk. However, I also think that it's okay to have plain-looking, ugly, or old protagonists in games. The problem is that neither side of this argument want to do a handshake deal about this. It's either all sexy or all too realisticly plain.

For my taste when it comes to video game, I dont care for realism, thats not why I play video games for....so I want play as attractive character male or female, not as beat up old man or woman.

Again Western devs can make what they want to make but the problem is western media dont want Asian dev have any freedom to make what they want to make......that basically entire core issue of woke culture.

What was the point in all of that technology Sony/Xbox was showing off at multiple GDC and E3 conferences about finally being able to do older, dirtier, uglier, and more wrinkled faces with blemishes with recent graphical plateaus they've reached, if gamers just want everything to go back to smooth, young faces? Was all of this a waste of time?

Even Stellar Blade we still have old man character models.

 

[midnightAI]

Thats my core issue just because you older that shouldn't mean you cant enjoy attractive character in games and movies. What exactly "immature" about attractive design?


She is Tess from TLOU PS5 version.

Tess is 51, the PS5 model is way more in line with the looks of a 51 year old

 

[decisions]

Leftism in gaming, GamerGate, SBI controversy, gaming journalism, all were ended at once via this absolutely nuclear bomb.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Also, I didn't even realize you strawmanned me. What I was saying is there's a backlash to the woke media -- which is what this whole thread is about. Seems absurd to argue the opposite.

What? Who is arguing that there's no backlash? Wokeness is only ever defined by backlash, it's not like a term that is ever used earnestly in a positive way, it's a loosely defined derisive epithet for anything conservatives don't like.

 

[March Climber]

For my taste when it comes to video game, I dont care for realism, thats not why I play video games for....so I want play as attractive character male or female, not as beat up old man or woman.

Fair. What about Geralt though?

Again Western devs can make what they want to make but the problem is western media dont want Asian dev have any freedom to make what they want to make......that basically entire core issue of woke culture.

I agree with the core issue. The ideal end goal here would be for everyone to have the freedom of making whichever protagonist they wanted to without criticisms from another group. This would also mean no criticisms for plain, old, or ugly protagonists

Even Stellar Blade we still have old man character models.

I think this is great, but again I wouldn't be upset if an old guy like that were a protagonist in a game.

 

[Danjin44]

Fair. What about Geralt though?

I'm not in to Witcher games so......no.

think this is great, but again I wouldn't be upset if an old guy like that were a protagonist in a game.

I'm sure western games out you can play as old man, I'm just not fan of playing as one.

 

[Tajaz2426]

What? Who is arguing that there's no backlash? Wokeness is only ever defined by backlash, it's not like a term that is ever used earnestly in a positive way, it's a loosely defined derisive epithet for anything conservatives don't like.

Most folks here are probably not conservative. Wokeness is nothing but folks that are intolerant to others opinions, policing others speech by their feelings, and trying to prove their own
Superiority by denouncing what others do against their beliefs.

You see a prime example with THE BABY PIG people, Resetera, etc where they shut down any voices that counter their own belief structure.

The problem with being woke is it causes mental and physical stress on the body because you turn everything in bigotry, racism, toxic masculinity, etc.

With social media these folks drive each other and push each other further down the rabbit hole. It gives them a way to shape societal structures in a way to preserve their own advantages. An example of the is the Pig folks on videos telling developers to scare publishers into giving them what they want.

It’s a very low intelligent way to get folks to do what you want them to do by canceling them, having them lose their jobs, calling them racists and bigots, etc.

We can go more into detail if you wish, but no one is being contemptuous towards them, they bring it on their selves by calling everyone racist and bigots, constantly. By telling everyone about systemic racism without any evidence, peer reviewed studies, etc.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Based Korea. I love how Eastern devs in general are embarrassing woketard Western devs. Showing them that beautiful women need to be represented in videogames and that designing aesthetically pleasing female characters in games isn’t a crime.

 

[diffusionx]

Anyone who thinks this character's body type is unrealistic should go on Instagram

 

[Jsisto]

As always, this controversy has done nothing but help the game. People who never would have known about it otherwise now do, and will buy it. They never learn.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

it's total nonsense to push for "realistic" bodies anyway, and anyone talking about it is a total waste of human time & resources

Even on our own camera rolls, everyone poses in such a way as to give the maximum impression of perfection of form. Films and games are products that also belong to that fantasy / aesthetic frame--not to some bland and flat recreation of "reality" by any metric. Everything in games is amplified, so of course bodies will be as well.

Not to mention the fact that most games shouldn't represent the median person, but the upper end of human performance. We don't want average, we want someone who is 2 or more standard deviations above average on strength, speed, certainly on appearance and physical form. Duh.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Most folks here are probably not conservative. Wokeness is nothing but folks that are intolerant to others opinions, policing others speech by their feelings, and trying to prove their own
Superiority by denouncing what others do against their beliefs.

What I mean is that no one ever goes "Oh man, I love this movie it's so woke."

The term woke is only really used as a pejorative at this point, so the mere invocation of the word already implies backlash. It's a word to complain about things you don't like.

And when I say conservative, I don't necessarily mean politically conservative, I mean that it's generally applies as a word for things done by "kids these days" or "the libs" in reference to wanting things to go back to how they were before. That's the very definition of conservative.

 

[Tajaz2426]

What I mean is that no one ever goes "Oh man, I love this movie it's so woke."

The term woke is only really used as a pejorative at this point, so the mere invocation of the word already implies backlash. It's a word to complain about things you don't like.

And when I say conservative, I don't necessarily mean politically conservative, I mean that it's generally applies as a word for things done by "kids these days" or "the libs" in reference to wanting things to go back to how they were before. That's the very definition of conservative.

I get what you are trying to say, but these folks are not changing society for progress, they want control of the narrative and for people to live by their rules and ways of thinking.

They are not changing society in any manner to help anyone, but to enrich themselves. They are using the power of words to nullify any opposition to their own value as people.

Most folks do not care for traditional values, they care that they have to put up with these mentally unhealthy people constantly telling them they are this or that and folks at this point are pushing back.

Western countries are easily manipulated through virtue of wanting to be welcoming and listening to other people’s opinions and having empathy for them.

I think the empathy went out the window at the millionth “you’re a racist”. There is nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy and idiocracy.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

What I mean is that no one ever goes "Oh man, I love this movie it's so woke."

The term woke is only really used as a pejorative at this point, so the mere invocation of the word already implies backlash. It's a word to complain about things you don't like.

And when I say conservative, I don't necessarily mean politically conservative, I mean that it's generally applies as a word for things done by "kids these days" or "the libs" in reference to wanting things to go back to how they were before. That's the very definition of conservative.

You seem to enjoy throwing out whataboutisms in the face of facts - or you're just being willfully ignorant - especially with the whole "I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to make women less hot in games"
Like are you living under a rock or just completely full of shit?

With respect to the whole "Woke" argument, you're using the same bullshit tactic/talking point- that its used by everyone who doesn't like "general lib stance XYZ" while completely ignoring the fact that it all started with the far left whackjobs who collectively couldn't rational their way out of a paper bag, all while snapping their fingers in solidarity, calling people out who didn't enter their self defined "woke" hivemind.
Now that it's caught heat and negative connotations , they want to distance themselves from it like they do when putting out a shit take on twitter and pull it all private.

Sorry, but these shit stains put it out there and its there, and if you think there isn't some unified front to control the video game entertainment space, you're simply sticking your head in the sand.

 

[Aion002]

Thats my core issue just because you older that shouldn't mean you cant enjoy attractive character in games and movies. What exactly "immature" about attractive design?


She is Tess from TLOU PS5 version.

I never played the PS5 version of TLU.... That's not Tess.... That's Bob Odenkirk with a wig.

Ffs ND....

 

[TrebleShot]

I never took this whole thing seriously
I mean they are talking about video games.

Why aren’t they complaining that she can punch a monster 50ft in the air or that there’s super unrealistic monsters with mouths that split open vertically.


WTF man completely unrealistic and completely alienates us normies who can’t punch people up in the air or do dodging backflips. FFS what about those of us triggered by unrealistic perportions on monsters? Completely out of whack and let’s not get started about those of us who CANT AFFORD over galactic space travel.

Where is the representation and realistic standards people.

 

[Yonyx]

Be hold the new sexy woman standards....

Not surprised there is less & less children in the world
WHO THE HELL WILL FUCK THIS CREATURE !!!

Can't we occasionally have an ugly protagonist in a video game without so many people in this forum bringing it up as a negative thing? Because we talk a lot about the resetards with Hogwarts Legacy, but here we do the same thing on the other extreme...

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Can't we occasionally have an ugly protagonist in a video game without so many people in this forum bringing it up as a negative thing? Because we talk a lot about the resetards with Hogwarts Legacy, but here we do the same thing on the other extreme...

I agree with you, the problem is that we aren’t occasionally getting ugly protagonists. It’s becoming a pattern where ugly is the norm instead of the occasional. I personally would prefer a world where we get a balanced mix of ugly and attractive but the problem is that ugly is becoming the new norm, to the point that when we get attractive protagonists we get bullshit articles like this one from IGN overreacting to the existence of an attractive female protagonist.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

And this is where I think a middleground should be found. I think mature attractiveness can be done without being sexual, a.k.a. classiness, but it's a difficult tight rope to walk. However, I also think that it's okay to have plain-looking, ugly, or old protagonists in games. The problem is that neither side of this argument want to do a handshake deal about this. It's either all sexy or all too realisticly plain.

Also regarding more plain/grounded looks, I asked this before in a different thread, but it's good to ask again:

What was the point in all of that technology Sony/Xbox was showing off at multiple GDC and E3 conferences about finally being able to do older, dirtier, uglier, and more wrinkled faces with blemishes with recent graphical plateaus they've reached, if gamers just want everything to go back to smooth, young faces? Was all of this a waste of time?

You can have older or unattractive characters as the lead in games, I agree. The problem is with a lot of Western devs, they try doing this in games with stories and setting where that is counterproductive to what the target demographic wants.

Like take fighting games for example: unless it's meant to be a parody, no one really wants to play with old wrinkly people or unattractive human characters. The former just wouldn't be believable in the context of a fighter unless it were very specific (i.e why characters like Shun-Di and Gen work in VF/Tekken), and the latter? Well, attractive characters just make the game more fun to look at, so the player will be more attentive and feel more engrossed in the game.

Maybe you can have one or two unattractive female characters in a fighter, but the majority of the cast? Not going to go over well and rightfully so. And when it comes to male characters, people generally want to see physically strong and fit characters, meaning they're likely also going to be at least somewhat handsome.

If someone wanted to make the gaming version of Ghostbusters 2016, fine. But you're probably better off calling it by a different name, and making sure the target demographic is clearly communicated. Preferably in a way that DOESN'T antagonize people not in the target demographic (that is actually one of the BIGGEST issues with these Western devs and consultation groups pushing for representation: they antagonize people who respectfully aren't interested in that stuff as a main priority).

 

[Tajaz2426]

Can't we occasionally have an ugly protagonist in a video game without so many people in this forum bringing it up as a negative thing? Because we talk a lot about the resetards with Hogwarts Legacy, but here we do the same thing on the other extreme...

It’s probably as simple as it is fantasy and escapism. It is also probably more aesthetically pleasing in 3rd person view. Humans are also more inclined to want to look at the opposite sex because of attraction.

I don’t think given a choice I have ever picked a woman and usually go with men for my power fantasy.

I’m a run of the mill 6 foot 1 inch male with a decent build, but I enjoy fantasizing that I’m some buff super strong man that can take on aliens, or 100 men at once.

In the end attractiveness is evolutionary and sexual selection is based on that. No one in real life goes up to another man or woman and tells them, “why didn’t you marry an ugly mate?”

 

[Yonyx]

I agree with you, the problem is that we aren’t occasionally getting ugly protagonists. It’s becoming a pattern where ugly is the norm instead of the occasional. I personally would prefer a world where we get a balanced mix of ugly and attractive but the problem is that ugly is becoming the new norm, to the point that when we get attractive protagonists we get bullshit articles like this one from IGN overreacting to the existence of an attractive female protagonist.

I would buy into your argument if it were really the norm, but a character as UGLY as the one in Fable is clearly an exception. This forum is exaggerating too much on this issue, to the point that even the protagonist of Horizon Forbidden West is being called ugly.

What was the norm, the pattern, was that in the past 99.9% of women in video games were very beautiful and very sexy by default. That was the unreal thing that wasn't normal. Why was that? Just because.

Oh, and that's only talking about women. Because if men are ugly, we don't say anything. Which says a lot about the issue at hand...

 

[Yonyx]

It’s probably as simple as it is fantasy and escapism. It is also probably more aesthetically pleasing in 3rd person view. Humans are also more inclined to want to look at the opposite sex because of attraction.

I don’t think given a choice I have ever picked a woman and usually go with men for my power fantasy.

I’m a run of the mill 6 foot 1 inch male with a decent build, but I enjoy fantasizing that I’m some buff super strong man that can take on aliens, or 100 men at once.

In the end attractiveness is evolutionary and sexual selection is based on that. No one in real life goes up to another man or woman and tells them, “why didn’t you marry an ugly mate?”

Well, those are personal preferences. When I can edit a character, I usually make women as sexy as possible (with big tits and everything). But then, if occasionally I can't choose and I get a doll that's an ugly woman, well, that's fine. I accept that variety and that's it (and if I really found such a character incredibly unpleasant, I wouldn't buy the game). What I wouldn't do is exaggerate the issue, bother, or disparage imaginary woke people.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot the muti-quote.

 

[March Climber]

You can have older or unattractive characters as the lead in games, I agree. The problem is with a lot of Western devs, they try doing this in games with stories and setting where that is counterproductive to what the target demographic wants.

Like take fighting games for example: unless it's meant to be a parody, no one really wants to play with old wrinkly people or unattractive human characters. The former just wouldn't be believable in the context of a fighter unless it were very specific (i.e why characters like Shun-Di and Gen work in VF/Tekken), and the latter? Well, attractive characters just make the game more fun to look at, so the player will be more attentive and feel more engrossed in the game.

Maybe you can have one or two unattractive female characters in a fighter, but the majority of the cast? Not going to go over well and rightfully so. And when it comes to male characters, people generally want to see physically strong and fit characters, meaning they're likely also going to be at least somewhat handsome.

If someone wanted to make the gaming version of Ghostbusters 2016, fine. But you're probably better off calling it by a different name, and making sure the target demographic is clearly communicated. Preferably in a way that DOESN'T antagonize people not in the target demographic (that is actually one of the BIGGEST issues with these Western devs and consultation groups pushing for representation: they antagonize people who respectfully aren't interested in that stuff as a main priority).

If you take a step back and really consider your post, you're essentially doing what people here criticize others for.

This is essentially what your post boils down to: "You can do this, but it must be like this" , "This can be done, but only if that is done" , "You must have I.P. this way or else name it something else" , "You must make sure to appease this target demographic"

That type of wording is something that a publisher/suit would walk into a room and say before leaving. All it does is solve an image problem but not a quality problem. That's why I think flipping the coin isn't the answer, but instead getting rid of it is the better answer.

The best way to do this is to remove the constraints, let everyone do whatever they want, however they want, but they must be okay with the other side doing the same. Equilibrium.

 

[Tajaz2426]

I would buy into your argument if it were really the norm, but a character as UGLY as the one in Fable is clearly an exception. This forum is exaggerating too much on this issue, to the point that even the protagonist of Horizon Forbidden West is being called ugly.

What was the norm, the pattern, was that in the past 99.9% of women in video games were very beautiful and very sexy by default. That was the unreal thing that wasn't normal. Oh, and that's only talking about women. Because if men are ugly, we don't say anything, which says a lot about the issue at hand...

I’m Pretty sure no man has ever said, “ here is 70 dollars give me the ugly one at the bunny ranch”.

Actually I’m pretty sure of it. Probably. Maybe.

 

[Crayon]

You can have older or unattractive characters as the lead in games, I agree. The problem is with a lot of Western devs, they try doing this in games with stories and setting where that is counterproductive to what the target demographic wants.

Like take fighting games for example: unless it's meant to be a parody, no one really wants to play with old wrinkly people or unattractive human characters. The former just wouldn't be believable in the context of a fighter unless it were very specific (i.e why characters like Shun-Di and Gen work in VF/Tekken), and the latter? Well, attractive characters just make the game more fun to look at, so the player will be more attentive and feel more engrossed in the game.

Maybe you can have one or two unattractive female characters in a fighter, but the majority of the cast? Not going to go over well and rightfully so. And when it comes to male characters, people generally want to see physically strong and fit characters, meaning they're likely also going to be at least somewhat handsome.

If someone wanted to make the gaming version of Ghostbusters 2016, fine. But you're probably better off calling it by a different name, and making sure the target demographic is clearly communicated. Preferably in a way that DOESN'T antagonize people not in the target demographic (that is actually one of the BIGGEST issues with these Western devs and consultation groups pushing for representation: they antagonize people who respectfully aren't interested in that stuff as a main priority).

Fighting Games still got it. Mostly.