Support NeoGAF

[Imp the Dimp]

It's not a purge if only human garbage stays. You're doing this wrong, GAF.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

You can pick and choose who you speak to, in real life and online. If someone is spouting hate or is clearly trolling it calls into question his/her character and a ban should be called in when required.

Some of the aggression shown by members shouldn't be tolerated in any forum.

 

[Croatoan]

I wonder how people picture this happening IRL.

Person A: My belief is that homosexuality is a sin, I don't hate the sinner just the sin.

Person B: I'm gay, but I respect your belief because I respect everyone's belief.

They'll live happily ever after and it won't be awkward at all surely?

I would suggest Person A and B not interacting. If this is real life then walk away, if this is Online then ignore or leave the conversation.

 

[Mickdundee96]

Noob question, can someone tell me how to ignore users on mobile?

Turn your phone off lool

 

[Croatoan]

It's not a purge if only human garbage stays. You're doing this wrong, GAF.

I guess I am human garbage then. Lucky for me words are just words.

 

[zumphry]

I would suggest Person A and B not interacting. If this is real life then walk away, if this is Online then ignore or leave the conversation.

that doesn't seem very tolerant to me

 

[Metalingus5150]

I'd rather not interact with people who think marriage is only between a man and a woman, or think that trans woman are still men or people who make jokes about people's preferred pronouns.

 

[Budi]

So it would be ok for them to attack Islam too? Or is it only ok to attack and generalize all Christians?

It shouldn't be okay to generalize people, but it absolutely should be allowed to criticize religions. Especially the parts that lead to condemning others, supressing them or trying to limit their rights.

 

[Raptomex]

It's not a purge if only human garbage stays. You're doing this wrong, GAF.

If you stay, you're human garbage. Is that what you're saying?

 

[Croatoan]

that doesn't seem very tolerant to me

Huh? Saying, "I disagree with you denying my way of life" and leaving is a very grown up way of avoiding drama.

 

[Serpens007]

Tolerate the intolerance? So people will have to tolerate the intolerance to intolerance, and if someone doesn't ,then we will have to tolerate the intolerance on intolerance to intolerance... and so on, and so on, and so on

 

[Cake Boss]

It's the only color that this website will see ever again.

 

[Croatoan]

I'd rather not interact with people who think marriage is only between a man and a woman, or think that trans woman are still men or people who make jokes about people's preferred pronouns.

I have yet to see that here other than a few alt right aholes who have already been banned.

You realize that the world isn't left vs right right? That there are moderates, or even center left people, that may support most of your beliefs but also disagree with some? These are the people I see staying at gaf that are being called human garbage. These are the people who have been silenced and lumped in with the alt right, that are celebrating the idea that they can now speak up.

 

[Kusagari]

define bigot?

Am I a bigot for not being on board with intersectionalism? Am I a bigot for condemning hate speech against any race including white people? Am I a bigot for thinking christians have relgious rights just like muslims do?

Be careful that your lack of tolerance doesn't turn you into a bigot yourself.

Yes.

 

[Kurdel]

I just want people to be treated the same no matter the color of their skin, their religion, or their sexual orientation. Saying death to all cis white men, fuck white people, christians are racists, any homophobia, muslims are terrorists, or i hate black people are all equally terrible in my eyes.

Oh no, will someone please defend poor white people like us, who have been under seige under the tyranny of Obama and those untouchable feminists.

And now, instead of possibly changing his views and making him see how uneducated and backwards his thinking has become, he'll likely retreat to his own eco-chamber where he will reinforce his beliefs and possibly even become aggressive in his views.

Once again, NeoGAF took the approach they are frequently criticized for.

Who gives a shit, he lives in america in 2017 and he has those views, he can go back to his backwater bigoted cult.

 

[Hendrick's]

"Please tolerate my intolerance."

No.

Some "opinions" are stupid. It's really as simple as that.

If someone's "opinion" is that they think a person should have less basic human rights than another person because of how they were born and you are "intolerant" to that, it is not the same thing as what that person is doing.

But no one here is saying or arguing for that. In fact, I know of no one irl who feels that way. I'm certain they exist and you are right, they should not be tolerated, but the majority of people who may be religious or lean right politically do not feel this way at all. It is a low and disingenuous tactic to attack large groups of people this way. It is very easy to claim someones opinion is "stupid" and therefore too easy to claim they do not deserve to be treated as humans. You can't hide intolerance behind that sort of hypocrisy.

 

[zumphry]

I have yet to see that here other than a few alt right aholes who have already been banned.

You realize that the world isn't left vs right right? That there are moderates, or even center left people, that may support most of your beliefs but also disagree with some? These are the people I see staying at gaf that are being called human garbage. These are the people who have been silenced and lumped in with the alt right, that are celebrating the idea that they can now speak up.

wheres the middle on believing that gay people are humans and believing that gay people are subhuman

 

[Croatoan]

Oh no, will someone please defend poor white people like us, who have been under seige under the tyranny of Obama and those untouchable feminists.



Who gives a shit, he lives in america in 2017 and he has those views, he can go back to his backwater bigoted cult.

Are you kidding me? That is what you get out of this? I voted for both Obama and Hillary btw...

 

[Kurdel]

Are you kidding me? That is what you get out of this? I voted for both Obama and Hillary btw...

I am sure you also have a black friend you also use as a shield

 

[Croatoan]

wheres the middle on believing that gay people are humans and believing that gay people are subhuman

There is none, that isn't what people want to discuss. How come every time yall go to the extremes? I even gave examples earlier of a few things people might not support that had nothing to do with peoples rights or existence.

 

[Captain Europe]

But no one here is saying or arguing for that. In fact, I know of no one irl who feels that way. I'm certain they exist and you are right, they should not be tolerated, but the majority of people who may be religious or lean right politically do not feel this way at all. It is a low and disingenuous tactic to attack large groups of people this way. It is very easy to claim someones opinion is "stupid" and therefore too easy to claim they do not deserve to be treated as humans. You can't hide intolerance behind that sort of hypocrisy.

Most religious people don't think like that? I really wish that were the case.
Just compare LGBT rights in religious countries vs secular ones.

 

[Youth Crew]

I just want people to be treated the same no matter the color of their skin, their religion, or their sexual orientation. Saying death to all cis white men, fuck white people, christians are racists, any homophobia, muslims are terrorists, or i hate black people are all equally terrible in my eyes.

It would be amazing if this forum didn't allow any of that going forward.

I agree with this.

Hopefully ******** promotes this sort of equality.

Edit: Damn they really censored ResetEra

 

[KojiKnight]

Maybe today things will have calmed down and... *looks at thread* wow going even 'better' today. A lot of people coming out of the woodwork these last few days...

 

[Croatoan]

I am sure you also have a black friend you also use as a shield

This is a great example of what people are talking about. You obviously don't want to actually discuss things, so you deflect by claiming the absolute worst case scenario (removing rights, denying existence) and then try to assassinate my character. You follow the playbook very well.

 

[prag16]

wheres the middle on believing that gay people are humans and believing that gay people are subhuman

I don't know a single person in real life who has ever asserted that gay people are subhuman. And the majority of people I interact with on a regular basis range from center-left to firmly to the right.

Maybe today things will have calmed down and... *looks at thread* wow going even 'better' today. A lot of people coming out of the woodwork these last few days...

Driveby bullshit like this isn't helpful. Who do you see coming out of the woodwork today exactly? There was one misguided dude who got banned. That's about it. So I'm not sure what you're even talking about.

Yes.

Ridiculous.

 

[Mohonky]

Some things awarrant instant agression, like homophobia, racism or white supremacy.

Arguing for a space to debate these issues is fucking insane.

I just want to weigh in on this with my opinion (and I know it's something a lot of people will disagree with simply because it doesn't actually involve jumping down peoples throats the moment they express an openly bigoted or racist opinion).

People are NOT born racist, nor are they born bigoted. It is a learned thought process. It can come from a persons up bringing, their peers, culture and any number of interactions throughout their life that shape their current views; as a learned condition, it can be 'unlearnt.'

I'm fortunate enough to have lived in many countries and met a variety of people from numerous backgrounds, faiths, ethnicities etc, and if there is one thing I take away from it is that I know that what I consider 'normal' is every bit as unusual or unorthodox to someone else who looks at the things I do and believes every thing I do and say is as unusual and unorthodox to them. That's just a byproduct of the social conditioning I am used to and for them, what they are used to.

I've simply come to accept that and others do too. I often tell people travelling is one of the best things you can do, especially if it's to a place where social norms are entirely alien to your own because it will challenge your own preconceptions of what is normal, what maybe socially acceptable and it'll teach you that the 'bubble' you view the world in is in no way indicative oh how others see it.

Like I said, I see this as being something I'm fortunate to have done because now, at the end of the day, I'm just used to subtle differences but also differences that from my own point of view, are unacceptable. Bigotry and racism are most certainly two of those things I've come to logger heads with others about.

I don't believe however aggression is the right response. Racism and bigotry are a symptom, not a cause. There are underlying causes that manifest as racism and bigotry, like I said, they are not something people are inherently born with, they have to be learnt. For some, it's a fear from a lack of understanding or exposure. If someone has never been exposed to ideas or concepts that challenge their status quo of the perception of others of different race, culture, sexuality, theology etc then in all likelihood they will more than likely, never change. Equally, if the only challenge to are threats, they will just retreat and find affirmation by surrounding themselves will others who already agree with their point of view and that doesn't actually serve to anyone any good; they'll simply become more entrenched in their ideology that supports this.

You can beat a racist or bigot till you break every bone in your hand but at the end of the day they that isn't going to change their mind.

Challenging their ideas, the things they have learnt, the underlying reasoning that brought them to their current understanding of others is the only way you can ever actually change them.

Now, that's not to say they need a hug. It's not to say that some people aren't utterly stubborn assholes that may well never accept anything different to what they already believe. You don't even have to like them. I'm simply saying that some people are indoctrinated into a mindset of hate and misunderstanding that has been drilled into their throughout their life and they have never been shown or exposed to anything different. You can't beat it out of them, you can't just push them to the side and think they'll go off and learn something, they'll just go off and find a group that shares like minded ideals. Then, when they have kids, they'll pass on their inherent biases and prejudices and the process will start all over again.

For me, that's why I feel it's important to stand up to those people and challenge them. Challenge where that underlying prejudice comes from. No one ever changed their mind because of a beat down, they never got up and said 'sorry I see the error of my ways now,' no they simply ran straight to back to a group that took them in and reinforced all the bullshit they ever believed.

Obviously if someone is threatening you, you do what you need to do, or it could be someone just spouting shit they can be easily ignored; those however who post questions that maybe ignorant to you, could potentially be open to some discussion. I would usually see where they are going before writing them off and for me, I feel like that's where GAF moderation in the past has failed, where someone has actually legitimately asked a question that to others is clearly unacceptable but instead of receiving clarification or challenging their view, they've just been outright removed.

 

[geomon]

Yes.

lol, that's unbelievable. Can't have the races mixing. Jesus.

 

[Croatoan]

I don't know a single person in real life who has ever asserted that gay people are subhuman. And the majority of people I interact with on a regular basis range from center-left to firmly to the right.

Same for me, but this is the common deflection technique used to make the person asking a simple question look like a horrible person for even asking. Cults use this all the time btw.

Person 1: I support gay rights, and the rights of everyone else but I have some issues with intersect...

Person 2: WHY DO YOU DENY MY RIGHT TO EXIST YOU HOMOPHOBE!

This has literally happened over and over again in this thread. Its a really handy when people can dog pile as well.

 

[Hendrick's]

Most religious people don't think like that? I really wish that were the case.
Just compare LGBT rights in religious countries vs secular ones.

I really can't say, but those I know (I am not religious myself) do not. Even if most do, and I think that may be an egregious over-generalization, what about those who don't? Should they be attacked by association and accused of things they do not feel in there heart? When it is in fact those people who would be in the best position to push change among their peers, you would think that treating them like human garbage is the least logical thing to do.

I understand this is a complicated issue and there is indeed much validity in the condemnation of organized religions around the world. I just think we need to work together as humans, and blindly fighting hate with hate is not going to solve anything.

 

[XOMTOR]

It is not our job to educate bigots. By your logic, people like him should continue being able to spout hate as much as they want here because maybe they'll change their mind someday.

But yes, we should be kind to the bigots because they might get even angrier?

Fuck that.

The majority of bigots are largely that way due to lack of education and understanding so if it's not your job to help educate them, who's is it? If the left and right continue to draw lines in the sand and sling insults at each other, how are things ever going to improve?

My whole family is pretty much old school Christians who aren't the most accepting (which pains me greatly BTW). Am I suppose to call them all bigot, racist, homophobic, Trump supporting, Nazi pieces of human trash or do I engage with them at any opportunity to help them realize that those ways of thinking are backwards? My father once thought that being gay was a choice but I've made him realize that his belief was wrong and that it's not.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Just because they smile at you and treat you nicely, and are polite. If they'd vote to make sure gays don't have the same right to marry just because they "believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman" then they are terrible.
Tired of the argument that as long as someone is polite, their viewpoint should be heard. You can be polite and still have terrible views.

 

[Kurdel]

This is a great example of what people are talking about. You obviously don't want to actually discuss things, so you deflect by claiming the absolute worst case scenario (removing rights, denying existence) and then try to assassinate my character. You follow the playbook very well.

I don’t feel bad for you, Trump is in office and the alt-right is pushing en masse for your kind or “open discourse”, the world is your oyster!

People are NOT born racist, nor are they born bigoted. It is a learned thought process. It can come from a persons up bringing, their peers, culture and any number of interactions throughout their life that shape their current views; as a learned condition, it can be 'unlearnt.'.

An empathetic wall of text to say “give them a chance”, nope I am sorry they know what they are getting into spewing hate speech, and deserve to be chased back into their shit dens.

 

[geomon]

The majority of bigots are largely that way due to lack of education and understanding so if it's not your job to help educate them, who's is it? If the left and right continue to draw lines in the sand and sling insults at each other, how are things ever going to improve?

My whole family is pretty much old school Christians who aren't the most accepting (which pains me greatly BTW). Am I suppose to call them all bigot, racist, homophobic, Trump supporting, Nazi pieces of human trash or do I engage with them at any opportunity to help them realize that those ways of thinking are backwards? My father once thought that being gay was a choice but I've made him realize that his belief was wrong and that it's not.

That should fall on the parents but most of the time the parents are bigots themselves. After that it's left to the community. If the community is bigoted, welp, good luck.

 

[prag16]

Should they be attacked by association and accused of things they do not feel in there heart? When it is in fact those people who would be in the best position to push change among their peers, you would think that treating them like human garbage is the least logical thing to do.

This is very important. And every time this comes up, gaf OT seems to choose "yes". Not everyone of course. But enough to create the toxic environment that has been the topic of discussion here.

 

[Croatoan]

The majority of bigots are largely that way due to lack of education and understanding so if it's not your job to help educate them, who's is it? If the left and right continue to draw lines in the sand and sling insults at each other, how are things ever going to improve?

My whole family is pretty much old school Christians who aren't the most accepting (which pains me greatly BTW). Am I suppose to call them all bigot, racist, homophobic, Trump supporting, Nazi pieces of human trash or do I engage with them at any opportunity to help them realize that those ways of thinking are backwards? My father once thought that being gay was a choice but I've made him realize that his belief was wrong and that it's not.

Haven't you heard? Its better to ridicule them, harass them and then push them further underground. Because that wont lead to a problem later!

I just don't understand this. Kicking the can down the road is just going to lead to something like the alt-right forming but much much worse. We have to educate these people!

 

[KojiKnight]

Driveby bullshit like this isn't helpful. Who do you see coming out of the woodwork today exactly? There was one misguided dude who got banned. That's about it. So I'm not sure what you're even talking about.

I've already given my take in this thread a few times, but if you want it again I can drum up the long list of people who outted themselves again and add any new names to it.

Straight up there is a skeezy sub-culture on GAF that has coming forward, incredibly brazen since this started. Some have been banned, some have not. Some are trying to find the 'middle ground' with these people and while they aren't as bad... they are encouraging that shitty sub-culture. The mods either can't or aren't able to deal with them and them getting banned versus others has slowed down the last 36 hours or so.

People shouldn't be banned for giving their opinion, a lot of times it's simply misinformed or given in good faith but not realizing how bad it is or how damaging it could be... (usually the middle ground people) but a lot of these people know EXACTLY what they are saying and what they're meaning. The latter need bans immediately, the former need to be talked or even shouted down. Sometimes you NEED to shown harsh treatment to realize how much these matters mean to real people, especially when it comes to the topics of equal treatment and, ironically, harassment.

 

[johnny956]

define bigot?

Am I a bigot for not being on board with intersectionalism? Am I a bigot for condemning hate speech against any race including white people? Am I a bigot for thinking christians have relgious rights just like muslims do?

Be careful that your lack of tolerance doesn't turn you into a bigot yourself.

Wow, amazing how things change in a week or so on here

 

[Croatoan]

I don't feel bad for you, Trump is in office and the alt-right is pushing en masse for your kind or ”open discourse", the world is your oyster!



An empathetic wall of text to say ”give them a chance", nope I am sorry they know what they are getting into spewing hate speech, and deserve to be chased back into their shit dens.

I fucking hate trump and would love for the alt right to disappear. My type of Open Discourse is called classical liberalism.

Classical liberalism is a political ideology that values the freedom of individuals — including the freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and markets — as well as limited government. It developed in 18th-century Europe and drew on the economic writings of Adam Smith and the growing notion of social progress.

Stop trying to label me to fit into your narrow world view.

Wow, amazing how things change in a week or so on here

This is what you call a discussion.

 

[Hendrick's]

Just because they smile at you and treat you nicely, and are polite. If they'd vote to make sure gays don't have the same right to marry just because they "believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman" then they are terrible.
Tired of the argument that as long as someone is polite, their viewpoint should be heard. You can be polite and still have terrible views.

Luckily, this is why we have elections and are free to peacefully demonstrate.

 

[prag16]

Just because they smile at you and treat you nicely, and are polite. If they'd vote to make sure gays don't have the same right to marry just because they "believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman" then they are terrible.
Tired of the argument that as long as someone is polite, their viewpoint should be heard. You can be polite and still have terrible views.

The marriage battle is largely over, and the religious right lost. Nevertheless, denying same sex couples written government recognition of their cohabitation situation is a far cry from believing all homosexuals are subhuman.

 

[Kurdel]

Haven't you heard? Its better to ridicule them, harass them and then push them further underground. Because that wont lead to a problem later!

I just don't understand this. Kicking the can down the road is just going to lead to something like the alt-right forming but much much worse. We have to educate these people!

Yes, we should have kept all the women hating gamergators, our community would be much better now.

If only we convinced all of them to abandon their misogynistic beliefs, how naive of us to think their minds couldn’t change!

 

[dripdripsplash]

I guess I am human garbage then. Lucky for me words are just words.

Oh the “words are just”-crowd is left. Awesomeeee

 

[Kusagari]

The majority of bigots are largely that way due to lack of education and understanding so if it's not your job to help educate them, who's is it? If the left and right continue to draw lines in the sand and sling insults at each other, how are things ever going to improve?

My whole family is pretty much old school Christians who aren't the most accepting (which pains me greatly BTW). Am I suppose to call them all bigot, racist, homophobic, Trump supporting, Nazi pieces of human trash or do I engage with them at any opportunity to help them realize that those ways of thinking are backwards? My father once thought that being gay was a choice but I've made him realize that his belief was wrong and that it's not.

It’s not up to minorities to reach out to every bigoted piece of trash in the hopes they’ll magically see the light.

Now the poor bigoted white people just need education and understanding? How much more coddling do they get?

 

[johnny956]

I fucking hate trump and would love for the alt right to disappear. My type of Open Discourse is called classical liberalism.



Stop trying to label me to fit into your narrow world view.



This is what you call a discussion.

Please feel free to discuss why your against intersectionalism and not be a bigot about it

 

[Kurdel]

I fucking hate trump and would love for the alt right to disappear. My type of Open Discourse is called classical liberalism.

Ah yes, the great ideology that helped give civil rights to women and black people back in the 1800’s, wear it proudly my guy, you are a beacon of intellect in a sea of intersectionality!

It’s not up to minorities to reach out to every bigoted piece of trash in the hopes they’ll magically see the light.

Now the poor bigoted white people just need education and understanding? How much more coddling do they get?

Seriously

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I find it funny (not so) how "grown" individuals resort to the internet form of indecent exposure.... to stick it to someone who exposed himself in poor judgement and in private to another adult.

I mean... fuck. Grow up. One upping each other for twitter high fives isn't putting you in a better light despite this moral high ground you think you're taking. Idiots.

 

[geomon]

Please feel free to discuss why your against intersectionalism and not be a bigot about it

Oh this'll be good.

 

[molotrok]

The majority of bigots are largely that way due to lack of education and understanding so if it's not your job to help educate them, who's is it? If the left and right continue to draw lines in the sand and sling insults at each other, how are things ever going to improve?

My whole family is pretty much old school Christians who aren't the most accepting (which pains me greatly BTW). Am I suppose to call them all bigot, racist, homophobic, Trump supporting, Nazi pieces of human trash or do I engage with them at any opportunity to help them realize that those ways of thinking are backwards? My father once thought that being gay was a choice but I've made him realize that his belief was wrong and that it's not.

I assume people are more prone to changing their views if it is a family member confronting them. So to answer your question of who should educate people on their bigoted views, family and close ones seems like a good answer. I dont see why that burden should be on GAF.

 

[Captain Europe]

I really can't say, but those I know (I am not religious myself) do not. Even if most do, and I think that may be an egregious over-generalization, what about those who don't? Should they be attacked by association and accused of things they do not feel in there heart? When it is in fact those people who would be in the best position to push change among their peers, you would think that treating them like human garbage is the least logical thing to do.

I understand this is a complicated issue and there is indeed much validity in the condemnation of organized religions around the world. I just think we need to work together as humans, and blindly fighting hate with hate is not going to solve anything.

It's not an over-generalisation when the facts are there for everyone.

As for the rest, no of course not. I really don't care what someone believes in as long as they're not disrespectful of LGBT/women/races.

 

[Dude Abides]

define bigot?

Am I a bigot for not being on board with intersectionalism? Am I a bigot for condemning hate speech against any race including white people? Am I a bigot for thinking christians have relgious rights just like muslims do?

Be careful that your lack of tolerance doesn't turn you into a bigot yourself.

I wonder what you mean by intersectionalism? When I learned about it in an academic setting over a decade ago, primarily through this article, it largely meant that members of different groups that are discriminated against will experience discrimination in different ways. E.g. a straight black woman will be affected by racism differently than a gay black man might be. Is that something you disagree with?