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Laura Dale: Nintendo Switchs Right Joy-Con Offers IR Pointer Functionality
- Thread starter bomblord1
- Start date
calc84maniac
Member
You do know that Wiimotes had an IR sensor?
Let's count. The left joycon acts like a nunchuck, but has a shoulder, a trigger, an analogue stick and 4 buttons. The right joycon has an analogue stick. That seems to be more than enough, no?
That excluding the possibility of clickable sticks and lateral buttons (the speculated L and R for the horizontal joycons).
But I'm not sure this is intended for games like Skyward Sword. I think it's rather intended as a touch screen emulation for TV.
Given the information at hand (albeit an IR camera on the bottom of a Joy-Con is a peculiar placement) if Joy-Cons do have the same motion capability as Wii Motion Plus, I suppose pointer control could be simulated in a similar fashion to Skyward Sword.
Skyward sword only needed the IR to initially point at the center of the screen, and after calibrated, only used Wii Motion Plus accelerometer movement for the rest of your play experience.
While it would seem to be clunky, a Joy-Con could be turned around 180 to initially point at the screen, and once it calibrates, the accelerometer/gyro should be able to give accurate 3D location representation regardless if the controller is flipped back to its standard position and used as a wii remote. This would mean that you only need to flip the controller 180 initially just to calibrate once for every time you play.
Frankly, in my opinion, I can see Nintendo using a different method to "center your controller reticle" before using motion control to simulate pointing without IR cameras all together. The only reason why I believe it was used with the Wii is because IR LED's and IR cameras were conveniently there for them to use from the start. So just to end this post, IR or no IR, I believe the Joy-Con will simulate wii remote style pointing regardless.
Skyward sword only needed the IR to initially point at the center of the screen, and after calibrated, only used Wii Motion Plus accelerometer movement for the rest of your play experience.
While it would seem to be clunky, a Joy-Con could be turned around 180 to initially point at the screen, and once it calibrates, the accelerometer/gyro should be able to give accurate 3D location representation regardless if the controller is flipped back to its standard position and used as a wii remote. This would mean that you only need to flip the controller 180 initially just to calibrate once for every time you play.
Frankly, in my opinion, I can see Nintendo using a different method to "center your controller reticle" before using motion control to simulate pointing without IR cameras all together. The only reason why I believe it was used with the Wii is because IR LED's and IR cameras were conveniently there for them to use from the start. So just to end this post, IR or no IR, I believe the Joy-Con will simulate wii remote style pointing regardless.
I was planning on laying the switch dock sideways (insert the tablet like an NES card) so it'll fit inside my entertainment center.
If I can't do that, then I have to put the switch off to the side (on top of my subwoofer), which means i'd have to point off to the side to get it to register.
Neither of those works for me. I can't even set it on top because my TV takes up the entire length of the stand, so anywhere on top would block a portion of the tv screen, however minimal.
Hopefully this supports the traditional sensor bar if needed and the tablet sensor bar is a makeshift solution if you don't have one or if you're playing on the go.
If I can't do that, then I have to put the switch off to the side (on top of my subwoofer), which means i'd have to point off to the side to get it to register.
Neither of those works for me. I can't even set it on top because my TV takes up the entire length of the stand, so anywhere on top would block a portion of the tv screen, however minimal.
Hopefully this supports the traditional sensor bar if needed and the tablet sensor bar is a makeshift solution if you don't have one or if you're playing on the go.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
You've got it wrong, that's exactly how the Wiimote works. The sensor (camera) is in the Wiimote, the "sensor" bar is just a bunch of IR LEDs which the Wiimote tracks. You can replace the sensor bar with a pair of candles (which emit IR light), and it'll work the same.
Saint Gregory
Member
We're talking about Nintendo though, a company that has cut features/components from their systems to save literal pennies per device. It would be great if they had full motion support too though.It's 2016, this tech is not expensive.
calc84maniac
Member
Actually, if I recall, it could be calibrated without needing the IR, but it would also automatically recalibrate during gameplay as it detected the IR.
You know, I think it could work. There are hidden shoulders on the sides. That could be like triggers.
Sensor bar is just two ir leds. No one should really worry about that.
outunderthestars
Banned
God, I really hope it doesn't have IR pointing in games. I just want to play Nintendo games with a regular controller and not be bothered with pointers, motion, etc.
It would make more sense if, unlike the Wiimote, the IR camera is built in the tablet and the Joy-Con devices only have a line of IR LEDs. It would have a similar technology to PS Move. Also it's easy to include that IR light on the Joy-Con central unit and the Pro Controller, as in the DS4.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yep. Maybe the dock has a sensor bar port for power, or else you'll just have to use a wireless one.
JetSetRadio
Banned
Is she the new Emily Rogers?
outunderthestars
Banned
But if companies are baking in touch into their games I will still have to sit there and use a dumb it pointer.
That said, I don't see touch controls being allowed in game. I still think that touch will only be used to operate the Switch out of the dock, but not in games.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
That would mean no IR pointing though. At least I can't figure out how that would work. It'd be IR positioning coupled with gyro aiming (much like the Move, yes). And 3D positioning is something Nintendo has never had before (except for distance from the sensor bar), so that would be new, and it wouldn't really work like the Wiimote at all.
aw yea its happening
Well, you calculate the distance to the dock and the orientation with the IR camera + the size of the IR light, the gyros nowadays are good enough for small angular movements (Gear VR headset).
Probably you just have to calibrate pointing at the TV, like Skyward Sword used to work, but without the terrible latency.
Duh, you're right, I totally spaced on that.
Still, the Wiimotes had decent battery life, and they probably recharge while connected to the screen or that handheld dock thing.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Imagine playing Mario Maker with pointer controls ...
CharminUltra
Member
How many more surprises await us...
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Ingenious. I knew it had to have something like this... How could it get Just Dance otherwise?
I figured some info like this would come at some point. Smart of them to leave it out of the trailer, though. Could muddy the message and seem too Wii-like for some.
Genius design if true. I believe there will be an accelerometer and gyro in there as well. Or maybe gyro in the left joy con.
This would solve the touchscreen to docked mode issues as well as Wii VC games.
Edit: Pro controller will prolly have gyro as well.
What a time to be alive.
Genius design if true. I believe there will be an accelerometer and gyro in there as well. Or maybe gyro in the left joy con.
This would solve the touchscreen to docked mode issues as well as Wii VC games.
Edit: Pro controller will prolly have gyro as well.
What a time to be alive.
outunderthestars
Banned
No, these are 2 different things. Motion controls are generally made up of a few pieces:
- Accelerometers. These measure linear acceleration in 3 dimensions. Using integration we can tell how far something traveled and in what direction (but we don't know where we started from).
- Gyrometers (ie gyroscopes). These measure circular (pitch/roll/yaw) acceleration in 3 dimensions. Using integration we can tell how far the device was turned and in what direction. This is faster and more accurate than trying to take samples based on the acceleration due to gravity. And when paired with the above, when still we know which direction gravity is and therefore know where "down" is.
- Magnetometers (compass). These measure the the electromagnetic field of the Earth. This is used to obtain absolute orientation. Accelerometers tell which way is up and down, these tell us which way is north. This also allows us to re-calibrate as accelerometers and integration are not exact and will drift over time.
- Barometer (air pressure sensor). This is used to obtain relative changes in elevation by measuring the change in air pressure, but because air pressure changes with weather and other things it's less accurate for this use over time and only for larger elevation changes.
- Positional tracking. This takes a number of different forms, Move/Oculus/Vive use camera that track points on the device. This can tell us a relative position in space and like the compass to gyroscopes allows us the recalibrate the linear measurements to where the device is in space (and add additional markers to test rotation against). Nintendo uses a reverse setup of a camera onboard measuring outside points in space (inside out tracking). GPS is also a form of this using radio waves and satellites on a large, earth-relative scale.
Accurate motion tracking will use all of these. IR pointing is mapping the motion to a 2D plane but because it's based on absolute positioning and not subject to precision loss due to estimation and sensor drift it therefore is much more accurate but because it's a camera it might track slower and won't work if it can't see the tracking points.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
In the early Wii days, there were people who got by with two candles as a wireless sensor bar.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
As I wrote earlier in the thread, I played all of Skyward Sword like that. Seriously.
brochiller
Member
Solid point but the focus of this console won't be in motion controls so it might not be as big of an issue.
At least they'd remember such a concept works better on higher end hardware.
The only way to play those games. Not to mention Metroid Prime.
The only FPS i've enjoyed on a console.
prag16
Banned
Eh, probably not if the IR sensor is on the bottom and you have to hold it upside down. You'd have no trigger button or anything. Seems like something intended more to use in a pinch. Not a precision instrument to use for FPS gameplay.
I'm huge on pointer controlled FPS aiming (sunk a couple hundred hours into Black Ops 2 on Wii U for strictly this reason), but not getting my hopes up here.
Unless there will be Wii remote support as well. Not holding my breath there either.
10 years later and people still can't cope with progress.
Right, there are wireless solutions but then I need to remember to turn them off. I'd rather some solution be tethered to the dock and power on/off as necessary.
I can *make* this work in my life, but the less effort i have to put into that, the better.
How dare you want a simpler way to manage optional control methods.
Vampirolol
Member
Did SS use IR? Wasn't it ALL motion, even the item menu?
Jorok Goldblade
Member
If it's on the bottom, it might be used for start-of-session calibration, then a magnetometer would be used to correct for drift.
There wasn't any IR in SS.
User Name Here
Member
Sounds great to me if true. And it looks like you can just ... switch over the right hand controller to use it as a pointer by flipping it over.
Edit: That does sound awkward as hell to use lol. This rumor probably isn't true.
Edit: That does sound awkward as hell to use lol. This rumor probably isn't true.