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[Dremorak]

People saying that the joycon would be uncomfortable upside down, what if they released an attachment for it that makes it feel more like a wiimote?

I've been thinking since the reveal it could be neat if nintendo released parts you could switch out for different games with specific uses (I think theres an image going around that shows a similar idea) But the idea of a modular console that you swap parts around to make a controller/interface that suits you is awesome.

 

[TheYanger]

So you have to hold it upside down to use?

Nah. Nintendo wouldn't go with such a messy solution. It would be better to just use gyro aiming at that point.

"Upside down" on the right side would bee right side up for how we usually would hold a pointer style control (analog up top, buttons in the middle).

 

[ASIS]

People saying that the joycon would be uncomfortable upside down, what if they released an attachment for it that makes it feel more like a wiimote?

I've been thinking since the reveal it could be neat if nintendo released parts you could switch out for different games with specific uses (I think theres an image going around that shows a similar idea) But the idea of a modular console that you swap parts around to make a controller/interface that suits you is awesome.

At that point why not just release a whole new controller dedicated to IR? I believe Nintendo and I am sure they will come up with something creative regarding this without any attachments. But putting it at the bottom of a controller? I don't know.

 

[Hoo-doo]

"Upside down" on the right side would bee right side up for how we usually would hold a pointer style control (analog up top, buttons in the middle).

But with the triggers/shoulder buttons on the bottom?

Nah. Thats a mess of a design.

 

[fernoca]

Makes sense, given that it's getting Just Dance.

That would mean that either Switch supports Wii Remotes also or there's another controller to be shown that will allow games like Just Dance to work.

All recent Just Dance games include compatibility with a mobile app so you can use your phone/tablet instead of Wii Remotes/Kinect/PSCamera/Move.

And in any case, Just Dance uses just gyros/motions.

 

[Jubenhimer]

I'm going to go on a limb and say, there are two pointers on the Joy-Con. One on the bottom, and one embedded into the R button.

 

[KingBroly]

But with the triggers/shoulder buttons on the bottom?

Nah. Thats a mess of a design.

It really comes down to game implementation though. If it's just rail shooters, it's not a problem, but if it's like 3D Mario then turn the controller around to point, then yeah.

But...there's no sensor bar or camera in the commercial, so I'm going to have to call BS on this one, unfortunately.

 

[Dark Cloud]

But with the triggers/shoulder buttons on the bottom?

Nah. Thats a mess of a design.

Why would you use the triggers? You think a dev would knowingly put controls to the triggers when they know it will be at the bottom?

All you're worried about is using it as a pointer and then you can map anything extra to the 4 face buttons.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Pikmin 4 saved! Seriously, standard control for Pikmin is awful. Pointer is the way to play.

 

[oti]

What about us lefties though?

 

[Dark Cloud]

What about us lefties though?

Just use it in your left hand lol

 

[CTLance]

Why would they put an IR sensor into the Joycons? It would serve zero purpose. An IR blaster like on Wiimotes would add very little to the battery drain.

Nah, you got some things mixed up there. That's how Sony tech works, with the move and newer controllers emitting a certain light (not IR) and a fixed camera connected to the main console looking for those lights and inferring the position of the controller with some maths.

Nintendo's Wiimote works the other way around: it has an IR camera inside. The misleadingly labeled "sensor bar" is just a piece of plastic with two IR LEDs.

The Wii Remote includes a 128x96 monochrome camera with built-in image processing. The camera looks through an infrared pass filter in the remote's plastic casing. The camera's built-in image processing is capable of tracking up to 4 moving objects, and these data are the only data available to the host. Raw pixel data is not available to the host, so the camera cannot be used to take a conventional picture. The built-in processor uses 8x subpixel analysis to provide 1024x768 resolution for the tracked points. The Sensor Bar that comes with the Wii includes two IR LED clusters at each end, which are tracked by the Wii Remote to provide pointing information. The distance between the centers of the LED clusters is 20 cm (as measured on one unit).

(src)

 

[KingSnake]

So what if I don't have room for an enormous standing brick to sit in front of my TV?

No IR for me?

Just a plain old Wii sensor?

But with the triggers/shoulder buttons on the bottom?

Nah. Thats a mess of a design.

Currently it's only hinted to be used to emulate touch screen functionalities on TV. And that needs really just one button.

If it will be indeed used for something more complex, the left joy-con can be used as a nunchuk and has 4 face buttons, 1 analogue stick, 1 shoulder, 1 trigger. The right joy-con has at least one analog stick that's very usable, assuming you want to dismiss the face buttons. That's already confirmed and pretty much enough for anything in combination with IR and motion controls.

Besides those you could have clickable sticks on both and the lateral hidden shoulders in which you don't believe.

 

[ShadowFox08]

The IR sensor in the right Joy-Con can then be used in much the same way as a Wii Remote pointer. This is designed to be used for touch screen replication, rather than the camera turning and aiming functions Wii Remotes were often used for.

FPSERs on Wii and Wii U used IR for camera turning and aiming.. I'm confused.. Is she saying they will no longer be possible for fspers on the Switch?

 

[AzaK]

That would be pretty terrible tbh. You would have to place the whole console in a certain position if you want to use it as a sensor bar, which is quite bad.

Yeah it wouldn't work for me. I have nothing under my TV, it's all in a unit off to the side. All my cabling is through the walls. That said I'd just make some more wireless "sensor bars".

 

[Fredrik]

Great idea, I guess.
But at the same time, the Wii sensor bar pointer tech is kind of crappy today so I don't know if this is a good or bad thing.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Skyward Sword HD happening after all?

Right, but it needs motion sensing accelerometer/gyro for sword swings and what not.

Great idea, I guess.
But at the same time, the Wii sensor bar pointer tech is kind of crappy today so I don't know if this is a good or bad thing.

It's a god send for shooters. RE4, Metroid Prime, literally all the call of duty games on wii and wii u. It's hard going back to sluggish controls for fspers with dual analog. IR pointing makes turn speeds and aiming way faster and feels natural on fspers.

 

[Nerrel]

I loved the IR camera for shooters so much that it's still irritating to use dual analog controls even now, years after being forced back into them. It inspired me to buy the Steam controller, which is great, but I haven't bonded with it like I did with the remote. The great thing about it was that not only was it really precise and fluid compared to a stick, but just more fun to use. It even made slogging through a game like the Conduit somewhat enjoyable.

I'd love for this rumor to be true, but it just doesn't seem like it would work or be comfortable to use in the same sense as the original remote, which wasn't ergonomically perfect to begin with. It may just end up being a last-ditch way of getting touchscreen games like Mario Maker to work in TV mode, not a full on Wiimote comeback.

Omg Metroid Prime

Spoiler

FF2

with motion controls!

Sad thing is that I've already completely forgotten that game existed.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

Man, I just hope some form of pointer capability is in, whether IR or gyro. Loved me some Wii COD pointer action back in the day. The only thing that scheme was missing was a second analog stick for camera control, and the Switch already has that. Splatoon proved that control scheme is godlike. I'd love to finally play other shooters that way.

Imagine Doom 2016 with Splatoon's controls... fucking drool...

 

[Roo]

Probably a big deal with Pikmin 4 huh?

Oh God :O
YES PLEASE!!!

 

[FunkyDealer]

This sounds ridiculous. You can't place it in front of the TV, and it would need to be centered to work like the Wii. Nd having the sensor on the bottom of the controller? Come on now.

There may be pointer functionality, but I don't believe this is how it works.

 

[Johndoey]

What about us lefties though?

No one cares about us, throughout history we've been treated like second class citizens while the right handed majority keep us down with their cruel apathy.

 

[blame space]

does that mean wii remotes work?

 

[jett]

The dock part makes it sound suspect. It would be a pain to need a spot for this thing that close to the tv, unlike the small Wii sensor that could be placed above or below it. It doesn't sound practical.

But hey, sure, why not.

 

[belteshazzar]

If true, a welcome addition.This could also mean that TV can be controlled with them?

 

[Neoxon]

Man, I just hope some form of pointer capability is in, whether IR or gyro. Loved me some Wii COD pointer action back in the day. The only thing that scheme was missing was a second analog stick for camera control, and the Switch already has that. Splatoon proved that control scheme is godlike. I'd love to finally play other shooters that way.

Imagine Doom 2016 with Splatoon's controls... fucking drool...

Splatoon used the GamePad's gyro for the camera, which I'm hopeful will return for the Switch. Though Nintendo better put a gyro sensor in the Pro Controller, this time.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Great! I hope it has all of the Wii mote functionality. I need skyward sword HD.

 

[RoadHazard]

Did SS use IR? Wasn't it ALL motion, even the item menu?

There wasn't any IR in SS.

There was, for pointer calibration and such.

EDIT: Actually, I now remember to was mainly to calibrate the sword (which mirrors your hand motions). Without a stable IR source it drifted off-center really quickly.

 

[wild wild rice]

Good, that's beautiful.

 

[Wiped89]

This is a brilliant idea! I agree that the top of the screen poking out will be used to display info too. A bit like the blue light for notifications on the original Wii. Pretty cool.

Careful, the mods will lock this thread. They seem to lock anything Switch related not in the giant and hard to follow main thread even though there are countless threads for other consoles.

 

[Dryk]

Did SS use IR? Wasn't it ALL motion, even the item menu?

Skyward Sword used gyro exclusively for aiming and it was awful

 

[Tathanen]

Skyward Sword used gyro exclusively for aiming and it was awful

Pikmin 3 used gyro aiming in addition to supporting traditional IR, and the two were completely indistinguishable, except for the gyro method being a ton more reliable due to not requiring line of sight. It's not a failing of the technology, just Skyward Sword having a bizarrely sluggish implementation of it.

 

[Compsiox]

If this is true...this could literally be the Wii/Wii U/DS combined. That's crazy awesome.

 

[MDave]

Nah, you got some things mixed up there. That's how Sony tech works, with the move and newer controllers emitting a certain light (not IR) and a fixed camera connected to the main console looking for those lights and inferring the position of the controller with some maths.

Nintendo's Wiimote works the other way around: it has an IR camera inside. The misleadingly labeled "sensor bar" is just a piece of plastic with two IR LEDs.


(src)

That is so fascinating to know how that worked. I thought the tech was far simpler then that back then. I'm impressed. Now I want to know how the Super Scope worked because that had a sensor bar thing you placed next to your TV.

 

[Taker666]

What about us lefties though?

Lefties are the ones being catered for.

If the right joy-con has the IR at the bottom..you have to flip it 180 degrees to use it..which means it should then be used in the left hand if you want the smooth curved edge against yor palm.

This suits lefties better than righties...which is why I think both controllers probably have the IR functionality ..as if there was only one you'd expect it to be the left controller that had the functionality (as when flipped it would then be better for the right hand).

 

[TheCongressman1]

Having to flip the controller to use it sounds like a mess. If you can't integrate it elegantly, don't do it at all.

 

[oti]

Lefties are the ones being catered for.

If the right joy-con has the IR at the bottom..you have to flip it 180 degrees to use it..which means it should then be used in the left hand if you want the smooth curved edge against yor palm.

This suits lefties better than righties...which is why I think both controllers probably have the IR functionality ..as if there was only one you'd expect it to be the left controller that had the functionality (as when flipped it would then be better for the right hand).

Wait, you have to flip it?

FINALLY US LEFTIES HAVE AN ADVANTAGE HOW DOES THAT FEEL RIGHTIES HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[ASIS]

Pikmin 3 used gyro aiming in addition to supporting traditional IR, and the two were completely indistinguishable, except for the gyro method being a ton more reliable due to not requiring line of sight. It's not a failing of the technology, just Skyward Sword having a bizarrely sluggish implementation of it.

It's not difficult to understand why. It's one of two reasons:

1) Slower cursor meant easier aiming.

2) It was probably a balancing thing.

If anything I really liked Skyward Sword aiming and it highlighted something that IR cannot replicate, the fact that different weapons can have different weights. It is a shame that no one took advantage of that.

all the wii/u zelda games that used gryo instead of IR for aiming, were god awful sluggish in first person mode. How has Nintendo not learned from Metroid Prime 3/Trilogy and first person shooters?

Twilight Princess was IR though.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Skyward Sword used gyro exclusively for aiming and it was awful

all the wii/u zelda games that used gryo instead of IR for aiming, were god awful sluggish in first person mode. How has Nintendo not learned from Metroid Prime 3/Trilogy and first person shooters?

 

[RoadHazard]

all the wii/u zelda games that used gryo instead of IR for aiming, were god awful sluggish in first person mode. How has Nintendo not learned from Metroid Prime 3/Trilogy and first person shooters?

TP used IR, and was very sluggish (moreso than SS unless I'm misremembering). IR pointing is superbly responsive when done right (like in the Wii system menu), but in TP they used some godawful smoothing that made it laggy as hell.

 

[pswii60]

The problem I potentially see with the setup Laura describes is that I don't have a lot of space on the top of my TV stand for anything other than the TV. If I have to put the docking station on the top of the TV stand, it will block part of the screen. It won't fit on the shelves of the TV stand unless I place it horizontally. Well, it will fit vertically, but lifting the tablet from the stand will be awkward as the shelves aren't very tall- just tall enough for a console/cable box/blu ray player, etc.. Again, if I can place the docking station on its side and not have it hinder the IR pointer, then there is no issue. In fact, I would be ecstatic as I loved using IR pointing in games, especially FPSs.

Yeah It doesn't make sense it being built in to the dock. I hide my stuff away as much as possible in my home theatre setup.

 

[Captains Curse]

But what if someone is left handed?

Wii remote was ambidextrous despite what promotional material shown.

This is the first thing I thought of too (as a left handed person)

Nintendo consoles usually dont make you adapt to something built for a right handed world. Hoping for the best.

 

[udivision]

If this is true...this could literally be the Wii/Wii U/DS combined. That's crazy awesome.

Doesn't it need to be able to support actual wiimote/nunchuks for Wii/Wii U compatibility though?

A confirmation of that seems more important for "BC" (VC) stuff.

 

[Compsiox]

Doesn't it need to be able to support actual wiimote/nunchuks for Wii/Wii U compatibility though?

A confirmation of that seems more important for "BC" (VC) stuff.

I meant ability wise not really software.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Let's count. The left joycon acts like a nunchuck, but has a shoulder, a trigger, an analogue stick and 4 buttons. The right joycon has an analogue stick. That seems to be more than enough, no?
That excluding the possibility of clickable sticks and lateral buttons (the speculated L and R for the horizontal joycons).

But I'm not sure this is intended for games like Skyward Sword. I think it's rather intended as a touch screen emulation for TV.

Asuming the IR sensor at the botton and a right hand operating the Joycon, we should consider various things here:

• The Joycons have their face inputs (Diamond and Thumbstick) concentrated at the top part of the controller. So when you turn it around you'll need to shift the hand position to use these inputs.
• When turned, the curve of the controller will be inverted and your palm get's the flat and less ergonomic part of the controller. And there will be a bump in your palm due to the Trigger sticking out of the surface now that is in the back.
• The speculated "hiden" R and L butons can only be accesed by your thumb and only the top one in this way.
• If you wanted to have the curve in your right hand's palm then: You flip the controller to use the IR Sensor, then rotated around it's longest axis. BUt you' ll end with the Trigger up and stick and face buttons down. The "Hidden R and L" would be usable by the index and ring fingers taught... XD
• A sensor at the bottom of each Joycon at the least solves the ergonomic issue with the control curvature for both a lefties and righties. This achieves a bit more homogeneity in the case of a local multiplayer game that used pointer.Although one player would need to hold it in the left hand, which is the reason i think the rumor says the sensor is just in the right Joycon.
• Related to the above. The reason the IR sensor isn't included in the left Joycon to solve the issue of curvature is becausde it would mess with the Left Stick/Right Stick and face button functions for each controller.

Would this be far worse? Put the IR Sensor in the top part of the Switch itself to do outside/inside tracking, embed 2 LEDs in each side of the Joycon Shoulder buttons (maybe inside then) and train the players to just relay on the Trigger and not obstruct the shoulder region when using IR functionality. Save for the training process part you get a more robust space tracking solution and something that is totally compatible with the rest of the Joycon features.

Also have other ideas that doesn't have this downside but it would require to redesign the trigger by regressing it back a little to put the LEDs infront of it.

You know, I think it could work. There are hidden shoulders on the sides. That could be like triggers.

Then they won't be triggers as you would need the thumb to press then when you flip the controller. Unless you use your left hand, in which case they could work like triggers XD

If it is the exact implementation as the rumor suggests, then it seems really improvised and a mess ergonomically... well at the least with the info we have available.

 

[udivision]

I meant ability wise not really software.

Oh.

The Switch can't use two screens like the Wii U so that rules out that.

You could have a DS mode if you set up the console vertically. The stand doesn't really allow for that but... well, you could just prop it against a book and detach a controller.

Nintendo's consoles post N64 are way too unique to actually have one console be able to adequately have the abilities/quirks of all its predecessors. It's a blessing and curse, really.

 

[batbeg]

The best thing about Wiimote.

Little King Story 2 now please.

Little Kings Story didn't use IR though.

 

[CrazyHorse]

So you have to hold it upside down to use?

Nah. Nintendo wouldn't go with such a messy solution. It would be better to just use gyro aiming at that point.

The did go with the bolted on 3DS right circle pad.

 

[ShadowFox08]

more than likely the design isn't final. We will for sure see some differences.

 

[Mr Touchdown]

Motherfuckin

RED STEEL 2

PLEASE HAVE THE WII MOTION PLUS TECH I BEG YOU NINTY


Edit: WAIT GUYS I GOT IT...

What if to use IR... Flip both parts and swap hands...

BOOM