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[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

That sounds awesome. Remind me to ask you for advice when my 2L job search ultimately ends in bitter failure.

Will do!

 

[Pollux]

Will do!

I've done a 2 summer internships at a DA's office, but that was during undergrad, will those be helpful when applying to internships this summer with law firms? (I only ask because it was before law school, so do firms/employers care? While I didn't know much they basically taught me how to use Lexis/WestLaw and did some basic research, did discovery, served a couple sub poenas, etc.) Or should I try and get an internship with the DA up here?

My main question is, will internships at a DA's office look good for applying to internships with actual firms, or would I be more likely to get an internship with a different DA?

 

[Pollux]

Yeah, that's starting.

Here's how deep the rabbit hole goes: http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tcl?city=New+York

Those who don't get a market paying job get $40k jobs or unemployment. There are other jobs that pay around $80k but it's more likely someone will get a market job or a $40k job (local govt). Federal government pays well. DOJ Honors get around $60k, Military JAGs get around $80k (plus $65k loan repayment, depending on the branch). Smaller firms around $60k-$80k.

Market paying means what the legal market typically pays. Basically every big firm pays $160k starting, in certain markets. NYC is $160k but I think down south, say, Atlanta, it's $145k.

http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tcl?city=Boston

This is the Boston version of the NYC list....for the ones that are listed how big are these firms (on average), and how many new associates do they generally hire each year?

How does the whole hiring process work, do you go to them, do they come to you, job fairs, on campus interviews?

As for the on campus interviews, i've heard that they exist, but know nothing about them, can someone explain how they work and how you arrange to be interviewed by specific firms, or is it everyone interviews for all the firms?

 

[Bboy AJ]

I wanted to thank whoever told me to apply to nontraditional places (Manos? Or the dude with the Dungy/Obama pic as the avatar?). I applied for a job with JCPenny for the summer, they were super nice, got an interview, and now got a call back for a second one. If I didn't get that push, I'd prolly be still holding on for the DOJ (which is hard to get). Now I don't really know what I'll be doing at JP other than mediation, contracts, and benefits...stuff? They weren't too clear about the last part. Maybe ERISA stuff? Dunno.

Congrats, dude! That's how GAF gets it done!

My main question is, will internships at a DA's office look good for applying to internships with actual firms, or would I be more likely to get an internship with a different DA?

Are you a 1L? It doesn't really matter what you do your 1L year. I mean, if you snag an internship with the place you want to be at, awesome. But otherwise, doing a DA job won't strike you out at a 2L summer associateship.

http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tcl?city=Boston

This is the Boston version of the NYC list....for the ones that are listed how big are these firms (on average), and how many new associates do they generally hire each year?

How does the whole hiring process work, do you go to them, do they come to you, job fairs, on campus interviews?

As for the on campus interviews, i've heard that they exist, but know nothing about them, can someone explain how they work and how you arrange to be interviewed by specific firms, or is it everyone interviews for all the firms?

Anything on that list that pays six figures is likely a Vault 100 firm and likely 500+ attorneys.

Hiring works a few ways. The firm comes to your school to interview (OCI) or you mass mail your resume to a bunch of firms via mail merging. Your Career Services Office will know about mass mailing. Job fairs are also a way to get a job. I got my job through OCI.

OCI depends on your school. Go to your school's career services page. If you're a 1L, you can't talk to them until November.

 

[mingus]

Will do!

woooo thanks

 

[Pollux]

Are we allowed to bounce legal hypo's back and forth in this thread?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Are we allowed to bounce legal hypo's back and forth in this thread?

I don't see why not. I mean did your instructions say anything about outside help and such? If it did than maybe it's not a good idea.

 

[Pollux]

I don't see why not. I mean did your instructions say anything about outside help and such? If it did than maybe it's not a good idea.

As long as its not for an assignment (paper, memo, etc) then there's no problem. Things we've just talked about in class are fair game.

 

[exarkun]

I'm so boned. My Patents class just from 40 mph to 180.

First four weeks: Chugging along, doesn't seem too bad.

This week: Remember alot of that stuff we just learned? LOL it doesn't apply anymore because of the new Patent reform bill. Man, if you took this class last year, it would have been a pretty easy class. Now? Its time for in depth statutory readings and comparisons to our old first to invent system!

Damn. Doesn't help that my non curved class of 17 has 8 people who are being paid by a few of the top firms to work on IP law for the firm (phd engineers and the like). I'm boned.

 

[mingus]

I'm so boned. My Patents class just from 40 mph to 180.

First four weeks: Chugging along, doesn't seem too bad.

This week: Remember alot of that stuff we just learned? LOL it doesn't apply anymore because of the new Patent reform bill. Man, if you took this class last year, it would have been a pretty easy class. Now? Its time for in depth statutory readings and comparisons to our old first to invent system!

Damn. Doesn't help that my non curved class of 17 has 8 people who are being paid by a few of the top firms to work on IP law for the firm (phd engineers and the like). I'm boned.

I half know that feel, bro. My prof redid half the syllabus, tried to condense all the old stuff into the next couple weeks, and on top of that cases that I've read already had new rulings and have to be reread.

 

[Pollux]

I'm so boned. My Patents class just from 40 mph to 180.

First four weeks: Chugging along, doesn't seem too bad.

This week: Remember alot of that stuff we just learned? LOL it doesn't apply anymore because of the new Patent reform bill. Man, if you took this class last year, it would have been a pretty easy class. Now? Its time for in depth statutory readings and comparisons to our old first to invent system!

Damn. Doesn't help that my non curved class of 17 has 8 people who are being paid by a few of the top firms to work on IP law for the firm (phd engineers and the like). I'm boned.

Ouch man. Good luck and just keep on keepin on, I guess.

 

[mikeybwright]

Hello Legal-Gaf, another 1L over here. I'm plugging along right now, not behind but slacking on my outlines a bit, and I had a question for anyone that wants to answer.

My girlfriend's boss's boyfriend (grammatically that is a train-wreck) is an attorney nearby and has offered me a spot to work with him over the summer. Should I pounce on that right now or wait until I see what other options I have?

 

[Pollux]

Hello Legal-Gaf, another 1L over here. I'm plugging along right now, not behind but slacking on my outlines a bit, and I had a question for anyone that wants to answer.

My girlfriend's boss's boyfriend (grammatically that is a train-wreck) is an attorney nearby and has offered me a spot to work with him over the summer. Should I pounce on that right now or wait until I see what other options I have?

If it's in a big firm, then yes. otherwise, wait to see what others who are actually lawyers on GAF would say. (I'm just a fellow 1L)

 

[mingus]

Hello Legal-Gaf, another 1L over here. I'm plugging along right now, not behind but slacking on my outlines a bit, and I had a question for anyone that wants to answer.

My girlfriend's boss's boyfriend (grammatically that is a train-wreck) is an attorney nearby and has offered me a spot to work with him over the summer. Should I pounce on that right now or wait until I see what other options I have?

Depends on how long he's willing to keep the position open. If it's indefinite, then you have a fantastic plan B. For your 1L summer you want to start doing stuff that you can use for your 2L job search, such as establishing a connection to a geographic area or trying out a practice area that you think might interest you. Another option is to do a split summer, where some people I know did two shorter internships at different places.

I had the option of working for a big firm in Beijing (without pay) but I chose to work for a judge in San Jose, CA instead (also without pay) because I wanted a connection in the bay area for the patent law action. If you're not sure what kind of law you want to practice, working for a judge at any level is also great because they get all kinds of cases. The program I was in let you walk into almost any court, be it family, criminal, civil, drug, and just find out what cases are like and what the judges and lawyers do.

 

[unifin]

Just sent all 15(!) of my apps in. -___- Wish me luck!

Just waiting on one recommendation letter.

 

[mikeybwright]

Just sent all 15(!) of my apps in. -___- Wish me luck!

Just waiting on one recommendation letter.

Good luck, nothing beats the first acceptance letter from a school you're actually considering.

And thanks for the responses guys, the guy is an attorney at a medium sized firm in a metro area. I think I'm going to tell him I'm going to need some time to think about it, and that I've been a bit over whelmed with all the reading. That should buy me some time.

 

[mre]

Damn. Doesn't help that my non curved class of 17 has 8 people who are being paid by a few of the top firms to work on IP law for the firm (phd engineers and the like). I'm boned.

Non curved class. Who the fuck cares about the other people in the class? Now, if it were curved, you'd be fucked.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Hello Legal-Gaf, another 1L over here. I'm plugging along right now, not behind but slacking on my outlines a bit, and I had a question for anyone that wants to answer.

My girlfriend's boss's boyfriend (grammatically that is a train-wreck) is an attorney nearby and has offered me a spot to work with him over the summer. Should I pounce on that right now or wait until I see what other options I have?

I would always delay something as long as you can but that is a much, much better option than what plenty of 1Ls do. I'd probably jump on it.

If you're a 1L, you're not allowed to dabble in summer employment per ABA rules until December.

 

[exarkun]

Non curved class. Who the fuck cares about the other people in the class? Now, if it were curved, you'd be fucked.

I'm pretty sure its non curved based on the last few years. He hasn't said anything yet. Theres still a chance I could not get an A (paranoid law student).

I got a traffic violation today (not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign). Should I: A. Plead not guilty and represent myself or B. Plead no contest, ticket is dismissed, no court fee since its 5 days before I would have to show up, and just have to take a driver's safety class.

I kind of want to roll the dice and represent myself, but theres always a chance the DA could fuck me.

 

[mre]

I'm pretty sure its non curved based on the last few years. He hasn't said anything yet. Theres still a chance I could not get an A (paranoid law student).

I got a traffic violation today (not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign). Should I: A. Plead not guilty and represent myself or B. Plead no contest, ticket is dismissed, no court fee since its 5 days before I would have to show up, and just have to take a driver's safety class.

I kind of want to roll the dice and represent myself, but theres always a chance the DA could fuck me.

It won't be the DA fucking you, it'll be the judge. If the cop shows, you lose. You're welcome to cross-examine him and try to trip him up. Keep in mind, however, that if you want to get out your side of the story you'll have to open yourself up to cross examination from the DA and therefore be subject to the perjury laws. It's not like a speeding ticket where you have more options at your disposal like attacking the validity of the instrument used to measure your speed; with this case it's your word against his. So unless you (a) didn't do it and (b) think you can get the cop into admitting that he was positioned somewhere where he couldn't possibly have seen you roll through the stop, then plead guilty and take the safety class.

If the cop doesn't show up, then you can get the charge dismissed unless the judge is a dick and reschedules the case.

 

[exarkun]

It won't be the DA fucking you, it'll be the judge. If the cop shows, you lose. You're welcome to cross-examine him and try to trip him up. Keep in mind, however, that if you want to get out your side of the story you'll have to open yourself up to cross examination from the DA and therefore be subject to the perjury laws. It's not like a speeding ticket where you have more options at your disposal like attacking the validity of the instrument used to measure your speed; with this case it's your word against his. So unless you (a) didn't do it and (b) think you can get the cop into admitting that he was positioned somewhere where he couldn't possibly have seen you roll through the stop, then plead guilty and take the safety class.

If the cop doesn't show up, then you can get the charge dismissed unless the judge is a dick and reschedules the case.

I was actually gonna try and do just that because he was not in an area that the police normally park. He was farther away, more than a dozen trees between us, etc. I would at best hope for him not showing up but that could be foiled.

I don't want this to bleed into finals time, so I'll probably bite the bullet and take the online class. But, I do think I could win it if I had to. CX him and admit to the position, give up as evidence photographs of distances; it'll be just like moot court!

 

[MechaX]

I was actually gonna try and do just that because he was not in an area that the police normally park. He was farther away, more than a dozen trees between us, etc. I would at best hope for him not showing up but that could be foiled.

I don't want this to bleed into finals time, so I'll probably bite the bullet and take the online class. But, I do think I could win it if I had to. CX him and admit to the position, give up as evidence photographs of distances; it'll be just like moot court!

Eh... In my experience, municipal courts dealing with traffic violations really, really come down to how shitty of a mood the judge is in more than any other. Even if you could get the cop to give up his exact position, all he's going to say is "I saw that you didn't come to a complete stop" unless the position he was in was just absolutely impossible to use for monitoring (assuming that the cop is going to remember where he was exactly anyway, as opposed to where he pulled you over at). Judge will be like "I believe the officer, guilty." Even if you are 100% in the right, then it becomes a matter of cost and time-effectiveness from that point on if you were going to take it to a higher forum.

But on the other hand, I mostly work with a municipality that has a high income of traffic violators with already oversized dockets, most either pleading guilty or guilty with an explanation, cops never actually show up to trial despite being subpoenaed for trial sometimes, or simply showing up with an attorney would make fighting the ticket more of a hassle than its worth and they'll just amend the charge.

 

[commish]

Hello Legal-Gaf, another 1L over here. I'm plugging along right now, not behind but slacking on my outlines a bit, and I had a question for anyone that wants to answer.

My girlfriend's boss's boyfriend (grammatically that is a train-wreck) is an attorney nearby and has offered me a spot to work with him over the summer. Should I pounce on that right now or wait until I see what other options I have?

I would. I know some people have had trouble getting a legal job their 1L year, so I'd just take it and be done with it. If not, next May might roll around and you will be "stuck" being a research assistant for some professor rather than working in an actual legal position. Not that that is necessarily bad or anything, but I know most folks want some real world experience as soon as possible.

 

[Pollux]

Hello Legal-Gaf, another 1L over here. I'm plugging along right now, not behind but slacking on my outlines a bit, and I had a question for anyone that wants to answer.

My girlfriend's boss's boyfriend (grammatically that is a train-wreck) is an attorney nearby and has offered me a spot to work with him over the summer. Should I pounce on that right now or wait until I see what other options I have?

Out of curiosity did you end up taking that internship or did you hold off for a bit?

 

[Miletius]

Hey Lawyer GAF,

My sister got a job. She's a 2L. I was so worried with all the doom stories out there recently but can now breathe a sigh of relief. Probably one of the most stressful times in my families' life. I seriously had nightmares for a while that she was going to end up back at home after 3 years and 200k in loans.

 

[Unregistered007]

Hello,

I have a Human Rights Hearing in Toronto, Ontario.

I am a Muslim male,


1. I was sexually harassed
2. Physically Threatened
3. No annual review and no medical benefits, even though I was paying since first pay stub.
4. My supervisor was harassing me and punishing me for reporting to the head office.


I am present myself - can someone advise if they will ask me any trick questions.

 

[mikeybwright]

Out of curiosity did you end up taking that internship or did you hold off for a bit?

I asked if I could have until Thanksgiving break (2 whole days) to think it over. He was understanding, I think all lawyers remember how rough the first semester is.

On a side note, I got cold called in all 3 of my classes today. Needless to say I'm glad I do the reading every night.

 

[Pollux]

I asked if I could have until Thanksgiving break (2 whole days) to think it over. He was understanding, I think all lawyers remember how rough the first semester is.

On a side note, I got cold called in all 3 of my classes today. Needless to say I'm glad I do the reading every night.

Well keep us updated. What type of law would you be doing there?

Yea cold calling is always fun. We had a girl break down and cry once. The prof. is the most sarcastic dude I've ever met, so it was understandable but still.... The guy felt horrible and kept apologizing to her lol. Ever since then he's done less cold calling, and just picks a row and moves across the row, so you basically know if you're going to get called on.

So for those of you in school now, what are you working on tonight?

Me: criminal law review and briefing a couple cases for civil procedure.

 

[mre]

Hello,

I have a Human Rights Hearing in Toronto, Ontario.

I am a Muslim male,


1. I was sexually harassed
2. Physically Threatened
3. No annual review and no medical benefits, even though I was paying since first pay stub.
4. My supervisor was harassing me and punishing me for reporting to the head office.


I am present myself - can someone advise if they will ask me any trick questions.

Canadian law is under-represented here, so you're probably not going to get an answer.

 

[AstroLad]

i didn't even know canada had law; i thought everything was resolved with penalty shootouts

 

[elrechazado]

i didn't even know canada had law; i thought everything was resolved with penalty shootouts

You are so ignorant sometimes. Canadian law is derived from moose jousting.

 

[mikeybwright]

Just in case some of Lawyer/Law School gaf doesn't venture over to the gaming side....

 

[Unregistered007]

Guys any advise?


I do not have a lawyer.

 

[MIMIC]

i didn't even know canada had law; i thought everything was resolved with penalty shootouts

lmao

 

[empty vessel]

Guys any advise?


I do not have a lawyer.

You should try to find a lawyer who will represent you for free if you don't have money to hire one.

 

[mre]

Guys any advise?


I do not have a lawyer.

I really wish I could be of more use. Try one of these organizations: http://www.legaltree.ca/node/112

 

[mingus]

Guys any advise?


I do not have a lawyer.

I figured Canada must have a Canadian version of our ACLU, which it does, the CCLU. Their faq said they don't offer legal services, instead you should refer to your local law society. Googling Ontario led me to the Law Society of Upper Canada, and I found this page to be pretty helpful in getting legal advice and finding pro bono services for those of low income.

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/with.aspx?id=1064

Good luck.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Hey Lawyer GAF,

My sister got a job. She's a 2L. I was so worried with all the doom stories out there recently but can now breathe a sigh of relief. Probably one of the most stressful times in my families' life. I seriously had nightmares for a while that she was going to end up back at home after 3 years and 200k in loans.

Might wanna wait till she has a signed ft offer

 

[mikeybwright]

Only about a month left before the reading period begins. I'm starting to freak out a bit, at least legal writing will be done and over with before Thanksgiving break. Not sure how I feel about a Memo (our third) being worth 85% of the grade.

 

[Dude Abides]

Legal writing should be pass/fail.

 

[Pollux]

Only about a month left before the reading period begins. I'm starting to freak out a bit, at least legal writing will be done and over with before Thanksgiving break. Not sure how I feel about a Memo (our third) being worth 85% of the grade.

I know how you feel. I'm worried about property and contracts tbh.

I have my Memo due tomorrow at 8 am. I still have to go through and edit the damn thing and cut out a page (double space) of stuff to get within the page limit.

What topic is yours on?

Legal writing should be pass/fail.

I think this might be the first time we've agreed on something lol.

 

[GashPrex]

Legal writing should be pass/fail.

how would they decide clerkships and the like then?

 

[Pollux]

how would they decide clerkships and the like then?

Submit a writing sample.

 

[Dude Abides]

how would they decide clerkships and the like then?

Your grades in other classes, whether you're on a journal, etc. My judge didn't even ask for a writing sample.

 

[mikeybwright]

Legal writing should be pass/fail.

I fully agree with this. My professor already made it clear that the highest grade she gives is an A- because of the way the curve is set up. She is probably the nicest professor I've ever had, and I can tell she hates the way the grading system. She offers extra credit to go to writing workshops...but with a curve I essentially HAVE to go to them in order to not fall behind because all of my classmates are going.

I know one day I'll sit back and laugh at worrying about curves and summer positions but right now it's causing some serious insomnia. My Contracts class is the only one I feel like I'm having 'some' trouble with, but that appears to be the norm with my classmates. 2-207 of the UCC is not going to be fun tomorrow.

My memo is on Section 3-106 of the Illinois Tort Immunity Act (Recreational Property and immunity). Very exciting stuff let me tell you.

 

[Pollux]

I fully agree with this. My professor already made it clear that the highest grade she gives is an A- because of the way the curve is set up. She is probably the nicest professor I've ever had, and I can tell she hates the way the grading system. She offers extra credit to go to writing workshops...but with a curve I essentially HAVE to go to them in order to not fall behind because all of my classmates are going.

I know one day I'll sit back and laugh at worrying about curves and summer positions but right now it's causing some serious insomnia. My Contracts class is the only one I feel like I'm having 'some' trouble with, but that appears to be the norm with my classmates. 2-207 of the UCC is not going to be fun tomorrow.

My memo is on Section 3-106 of the Illinois Tort Immunity Act (Recreational Property and immunity). Very exciting stuff let me tell you.

Only reason I'm still understanding Contracts is because of Calamari and Perillo on Contracts. It's a lifesaver. We finished up 2-207 the other day and have spent the last couple classes discussing the perfect tender rule and its exceptions whenever talking about the UCC>

Sounds like a blast. My memo, which I finished 20 minutes and submitted thank god, was on the Maine Whistleblower Protection Act. Good times.

 

[killthekampers]

Sorry for the necrobump but I need some advice on what I should/can do. The story is that when my family came down to San Antonio to see me graduate from basic military training the house-sitter we had invited one of his friends over and his friend proceeded to steal jewelry, my Xboxs and video games, and anything else he thought valuable. He also stole my mom's credit card and ran up quite a tab on it. To finish it off, he took one of my high school ids and opened a new account with sprint and I received a bill of $244.32.

I'm currently stationed at Goodfellow AFB near San Angelo, Texas and my family is in Michigan so its hard for me to have any say on what is going on. My mom already filed a police report but I was wondering if I could take this farther than just a simple police report?

 

[mikeybwright]

Only reason I'm still understanding Contracts is because of Calamari and Perillo on Contracts. It's a lifesaver. We finished up 2-207 the other day and have spent the last couple classes discussing the perfect tender rule and its exceptions whenever talking about the UCC>

Sounds like a blast. My memo, which I finished 20 minutes and submitted thank god, was on the Maine Whistleblower Protection Act. Good times.

Based on your recommendation I ordered that book through Amazon....it's amazing. Wish I had that from the start. Now I just have to see how far I can get through it with everything else piling up. Thanks man I owe you a beer.

 

[Barrett2]

Only reason I'm still understanding Contracts is because of Calamari and Perillo on Contracts. It's a lifesaver. We finished up 2-207 the other day and have spent the last couple classes discussing the perfect tender rule and its exceptions whenever talking about the UCC>

Sounds like a blast. My memo, which I finished 20 minutes and submitted thank god, was on the Maine Whistleblower Protection Act. Good times.

Goddamn I loved contracts. One of my favorite classes. Can't believe I didn't do better in that class. I was *this* close to getting an A-, was boned with a B+

 

[Barrett2]

Anyone here know anything about patent law?

I need to look up a patent question for a friend, but don't know a damn thing about patent law, and don't feel I should use my work Westlaw account for it. What's my best bet for an openly available online source of patent law info?