The layoffs were likely planned well in advance, independent of the game's sales.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Layoffs at Suckerpunch confirmed, includes staff from Sly Cooper era (maybe 20-40%)
- Thread starter Pound_lb003
- Start date
The layoffs were likely planned well in advance, independent of the game's sales.
Samir Sedlar
Member
Best of luck to all those affected at SuckerPunch, It is one hell of a studio, I hope the studio remains strong.
But as you said, I think we will see how things end up like with their next game, and of course they will hire some new people.
40% is a huge number, I wonder why that would happen, as far as I know SuckerPunch has been doing fairly good, if Sony was to restructure it or something, it won't go as far as 40% of the studio.
But as you said, I think we will see how things end up like with their next game, and of course they will hire some new people.
Omnistalgic
Member
I'm sad for people that need jobs, but please don't turn this into another what's going on with Sony thread...
we know what's going on, they are SLIMMING down.
Again, I'm not being cruel, but with ND, there was like a microscope on the studio's ins and outs, every time someone left there's 2-3 new threads a day of everyone fishing tweets and quotes.
It not only seems to be an invasion of privacy but just trivial for the type of industry this is. I'm sure these developers who have talent will find work. And get well compensated for it. These devs make over 100k sometimes and find new work in as little as a month. Again, not being a douche here, just find it a bit ignorant when I see how saddened people are at layoff news, there are very very worse things happening globally right now.
I do hope everyone lands on there feet though.
we know what's going on, they are SLIMMING down.
Again, I'm not being cruel, but with ND, there was like a microscope on the studio's ins and outs, every time someone left there's 2-3 new threads a day of everyone fishing tweets and quotes.
It not only seems to be an invasion of privacy but just trivial for the type of industry this is. I'm sure these developers who have talent will find work. And get well compensated for it. These devs make over 100k sometimes and find new work in as little as a month. Again, not being a douche here, just find it a bit ignorant when I see how saddened people are at layoff news, there are very very worse things happening globally right now.
I do hope everyone lands on there feet though.
This is a board about videogames though
Justice_Bolt
Member
Why not cut some studios that do nothing interesting for years instead?
Nightengale
Member
Because Sucker Punch just entered that stage?
Nate Fox will unquestionably dissappear from public eye for more then a year after this, because FL is shipping and their next game is 2016 earliest, and 2017 if new IP.
Omnistalgic
Member
seemed borderline obsessive IMO...
but whatever, everyone's so concerned...I'll just ignore the thread..
Ovek
7Member7
In all seriousness they are most likely regrouping for a new ip that is currently prototyping, you really don't needs to be paying a full team to do that.
They already reduced several studios.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
If this is "normal" then it shouldn't be, Second Son was a successful game. Publishers need to get their shit together. I hate reading stories like this.
Seriously Sony, SERIOUSLY!?
Keep the talented team members at the studio, Jesus. I get the need for reductions in some studios to reduce costs, but not at your primary studios.
Seriously worrying, they should never touch Sucker Punch, Naughty Dog, San Diego Studio and they should never have touched Studio Liverpool
How can you possibly feel qualified to make a statement regarding the level of talent let go?
We're fans, not HR representatives.
Nightengale
Member
Various reasons can be thought up.
Too expensive.
The newcomers have more pedigree or are better suited for their future projects.
Redundancies. At a certain level, it will impact long time staff as well.
Game bombed hard and there's no choice.
Sony being a jerk.
silvermember
Banned
Seniority is never a great thing to depend on. You should hire base on skill not how long you stayed at the company.
Seniority can leads to stagnation if not done correctly.
Already mentioned in this thread.
Second Son sales were already over 1 million after only 9 days.
Should be well over 2 millions already (today).
Sales are good.
Well, you do have to consider the ever increasing production cost ramp. If (as a simple example) Infamous 2 sold 500k units and cost 15M to make, while Infamous:SS sold 700k units and cost 25M to make, that higher sales total may not be high enough to justify the increase in production costs. They wouldn't be the first studio to suffer from this phenomenon, where sales are fine by historical standards, but insufficient because of the relentless cost ramp.
That's a possibility, but I think it's more likely we're just looking at redundancies. Ultimately I agree with you, I just wanted to point out that there is a pretty common way (At least in the AAA industry) for a company to have their best selling game ever also make far less money than their previous titles.
zackmorris
Member
True, but it sucks to see competent studios like SuckerPunch lose employees when they seem to always be doing their work right. Don't think Second Son hit any major delays and it seems like the DLC is on target too.
Then you look at something like Evolution Studios that cost Sony an extra year of development costs on a game like Driveclub that is still unproven. Also The Last Guardian, no one wants that game to get cancelled, myself included. But if it meant a saving a studio like Sucker Punch from losing 40% of their staff then enough with it already. I would rather give credit to a studio that can actually make deadlines and produce great content in that time frame.
Now if it turns out that the 40% number was inflated and that these lay offs are just due to Second Son and it's DLC being finished than I understand that, but so far it doesn't really seem that way.
Sucks for the people who lost their jobs but this has become the norm for most industries today. There is always some downsizing that occurs between large projects. Companies try to keep their overhead/payroll down, knowing full well that there is a dearth of talented people on the market eager to work when the next project ramps up.
SCE Japan Studio already had a "reboot" with a new studio boss for that very reason over 2 years ago.
See here
Allan Becker is the boss there now.
Before he took control, SCE Japan Studio was a mess.
They had over 40 (!) projects going at the same time. Just imagine that!
Employees did what the fuck they wanted there.
See Ueda and his "hm.... let's see.... hm .... I like that, hmm.... let's change everything again....hm... do this, do that..... hm... let's scrap everything again" attitude.
So Allan Becker has a time table now for every project. Which makes sense, if you have a brain, common sense and you're running a business/company.
Ueda realized he has lost his "paid vacation" job and left for that very reason.
(now a freelancer)
Long story short:
SCE rebooted the japanese studios first (see SCE Japan).
Then, they did the same with some european studios (Cambridge, London Studio)
And in the end, some american studios had to change (see Sony Santa Monica Studio).
"Layoffs" sounds to me like it wasn't really planned. Or at least that the staff didn't see it coming.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Almost 40% of your workforce is a bit more than trimming the fat...
What other term would you use if they saw it coming? Layoffs are always planned regardless if it was something in the works for awhile or bc of more recent events.
jonnyp
Member
How is this even possible? Second Son was great and it sold well, I love SP's games.
Sad for all involved, and a giant loss for Sony. The videogame industry is run by idiots.
sixteen-bit
Member
I hope those effected land on their feet
Pound_lb003
Member
Tag quote opportunity if ever I saw one.
To me this sounds like inFamous Second Son, while the best selling launch for the franchise, didn't sell quite well enough to compensate for the bigger team size, costlier development on PS4 and what is thus a bigger budget for Second Son in comparison to the PS3 games, so now Sucker Punch can't afford to keep all the people employed while they transition through the early stages of their next game's development and aren't in hyper-content-making-mode yet. They'll probably expand again once their next project is far enough in development, Second Son simply wasn't the kind of multimillion seller that would warrant to keep the kind of workforce at Sucker Punch that they had before.
Pound_lb003
Member
Only an example, companies rarely reveal development costs. And it certainly sold more than 750k, so no worries there.
The Jackdog
Member
Wow, really hope these guys get jobs. Sucker Punch has gotta be pretty highly desired, or at least id hope.
iceatcs
Junior Member
yeah but NOT a very good example to assume it cost.
So bad assume I ever seen. What's the truthfully community! joking.
It does to Sony.
Pound_lb003
Member
Sorry, I actually can't understand what you're saying.
Are you saying it's a bad guess that shouldn't have been said at all?
Happens and it's normal. I can understand why some people are surprised, but bear in mind that the "world of creativity" is pretty different from a stable job in a factory or office or anything else. Creative people jump from a studio to another and most of them have an awesome portfolio (and most of them are happy to work for different studios!)
I have to wonder how much of this is because of budget mandates. And if staff is just the most effective way of keeping cost down? Or is it streamlining? Who knows? But, it does seem like SCE is taking the a different route from previous years. All in all, I wouldn't worry about Sucker Punch. They're still at a decent size and all that.
2. If they have other jobs lined up sure.
3. They just returned to the same size they were before they started iF:SS! The same size they were when they completed iF2?
1. 30%-40% = ~50%? Stop that.
2. If they have other jobs lined up sure.
3. They just returned to the same size they were before they started iF:SS! The same size they were when they completed iF2?
Baron_Calamity
Member
Maybe they are just going to outsource large parts of their game development for now on?
Leafhopper
Banned
What?
They already had another development studio work on Sly 4 while Sucker Punch worked on Second Son. I don't know why they needed Sly 4 out when they did but, yeah.
I don't know I guess Sly 4 did okay enough/Infamous Second Son did well enough that they didn't need people who were originally there for the original sly games anymore? I am not sure.
dragonbane
Member
Depends on how you are managed I guess. Ninja Theory and Quantic Dream have 110/140 employees respectively and their games sell around the same ballpark as Infamous or less in NT case.
Ninja Theory has never worked with the same publisher twice so who knows how happy people really were with the profitability of their games
I feel like these layoffs are the consequence of them being a one game at a time studio, and there probably just isn't enough work to go around for a full studio in the first year or so of preproduction.
That really ought to be avoidable when you're owned by a big publisher like Sony. But of course they've had significant layoffs at several of their studios recently so there are most likely other factors at work.
I've been through a layoff at a games studio. This statement is in no way representative of what my status was/is after the changeover. I'm actually better off now, fortunately (no longer in games!), but I recently bumped into someone who was laid off at the same time, and they *really* weren't doing too well.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Isn't that normal though for first party games? It's being released on a single platform so obviously it's gonna have to be something special to sell as many copies as a multiplatform AAA game
In my experience, game developers in general make less than software developers outside of gaming, and work much longer hours as well. Their working conditions really tend to suck. I was a CS major, and several of the people I went to school with took jobs in the game industry right out of college, but I don't think any of them are still doing it. It's a tough life.
And that whole "very very worse things happening globally right now" is a load of crap. You can use that line on literally anything. "You shouldn't be sad your wife died, there's worse things happening globally". So what? Getting laid off sucks, period.
...which doesn't mean that the layoffs wouldn't have happened if the game had done better.
But really, this is just continuing a trend that has been happening throughout the industry for the past five or more years. Not even studios with the direct backing of a platform holder can survive long without a massive hit. The "middle-scale" industry is in its last gasps. Consolidation into large, multi-national, multi-studio design now dominates the AAA market. Everyone else has been forced to go small scale or close entirely (and even the small-scale studios are feeling the crunch by the ongoing "race to the bottom"). Curious what the future holds now for Sucker Punch and those let go. They're incredibly talented and have continued to do awesome work in an incredibly volatile time for second-tier studios.
MasterOfPastures
Banned
PAr for the course in this industry. Bungie will (if it has not yet done so) let go hundreds of contractors in all disciplines as soon as Destiny ships or soon after. Even for Activision, maintaining a 500 person studio is ridiculous if they are only going to focus on expansions and DLC for the next 3-4 years.
Similar threads
- Locked