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[oti]

A TTIP should happen one day but not this TTIP. The US needs to back off and the EU to fight for higher standards. Plus all of this secrecy is atrocious and doesn't help at all.

 

[jakonovski]

No. But looking after industries a lot of your population work in, is something that the government should do. Of course not blindly, but also not ignore it. It's not as easy as "tough shit, just another corrupted corporation."

If you want to get nuanced, don't forget that EU does not just Germany. Pushing EU wide legislation that benefits only Germany is a bit of a shitshow. Which in fact describes the modern EU pretty well. A shitshow.

 

[Sarcasm]

*text*



Not accurate. Obesity, per WHO:
US: 33.7%
Germany: 20.1%
http://gamapserver.who.int/gho/interactive_charts/ncd/risk_factors/obesity/atlas.html

Why does that stop at 2014 lol?

 

[ClosingADoor]

If you want to get nuanced, don't forget that EU does not just Germany. Pushing EU wide legislation that benefits only Germany is a bit of a shitshow. Which in fact describes the modern EU pretty well. A shitshow.

Sure, and that is why these countries together each weigh their interests and then need to make a decision together. The car industry is a major one for Germany, and Germany is important in the EU, so you can't just say "tough shit" when talking about major companies in that industry, because changes there will impact a lot of people.

 

[F1Fan]

No. But looking after industries a lot of your population work in, is something that the government should do. Of course not blindly, but also not ignore it. It's not as easy as "tough shit, just another corrupted corporation."


Or maybe the world isn't as black and white as that, and you shouldn't reach for extremes right away.

I'm saying companies like Volkswagen have a lot of people depending on them. That is something a government should take into account when making decisions.

The world is pretty black & white. In a case of an individual breaking the law, you will pay for it, a corporation does, nobody is responsible and everyone just shrug their shoulders.

Hundreds if not thousands of employees were involved in this scam, and everyone will get away with it.

 

[20cent]

GMO foods have been tested for years without any issues being found.

yeah, all these people dying of digestive/pancreas/intestin/asshole cancers probably have nothing to do with it, they would have died before 40 without science anyway, right?

Testing something over and over on the off-chance you get a different result is pretty damn anti-science.

I'm pretty sure that is the definition of science, experimenting and analyzing results. Not coming with obvious and guessable evil shit and forcing people to consume stuff they never asked for. Oh yeah, that's progress, people against it are probably nazis, UFO enthusiasts or Trump supporters for questioning it.

 

[jakonovski]

Sure, and that is why these countries together each weigh their interests and then need to make a decision together. The car industry is a major one for Germany, and Germany is important in the EU, so you can't just say "tough shit" when talking about major companies in that industry, because changes there will impact a lot of people.

Well, they actually negotiate in secrecy and kowtow to special interests, so they likely don't give a flying fuck about Johnny the Volkswagen Janitor.

 

[ClosingADoor]

The world is pretty black & white. In a case of an individual breaking the law, you will pay for it, a corporation does, nobody is responsible and everyone just shrug their shoulders.

Hundreds if not thousands of employees were involved in this scam, and everyone will get away with it.

That is to be seen. The investigation is ongoing and it is totally possible Volkswagen will pay in the billions, if not tens of billions, in fines and such.

And we are not talking about breaking the law. We are talking about not being able to sell European cars anymore in the US. Which is a pretty major thing and should not be dismissed lightly. Should we just accept everything the US says? Of course not! But you can't ignore it straight away also.

Well, they actually negotiate in secrecy and kowtow to special interests, so they likely don't give a flying fuck about Johnny the Volkswagen Janitor.

Negotiations are always in secret. As long as the final draft is public and goes through each elected parliament for approval, there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

I'm sure a country that has no problems allowing bromides, proven carcinogens and things that land you 15 year prison sentences in some countries, being added to their sugarated, highly processed food substances that have caused the US to be the only civilized country in the world where people have gotten smaller and less old, also would have no problems letting companies tell them they found no convlusive evidence their own patented new and improved tasty food was lethal. I'm not sure what this has to do with science.

How does any of this relate to the safety of genetically modified food at all? Countries and NGO's from all over the world have tested GMO food and not found any safety issues. If we're still going back and forth on what constitutes 'science,' I assure you that throwing around a bunch of unrelated data points is in the 'not' category.

 

[AmFreak]

i guess you really want VW to collapse completely then

BMW would be pretty fucked as well

The US represents a staggering amount of 7% of all VW cars sold in a year.

 

[Frankfurter]

Why does that stop at 2014 lol?

Presumably because 2015 data is not yet available.

How does any of this relate to the safety of genetically modified food at all? Countries and NGO's from all over the world have tested GMO food and not found any safety issues. If we're still going back and forth on what constitutes 'science,' I assure you that throwing around a bunch of unrelated data points is in the 'not' category.

If that's true, why doesn't the US just allow the EU to stick with its current laws, i.e. testing the food until it's considered safe? Surely nothing could be found anyway?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Show me where I asked for one-way free trade deal and where Germany cars should be sold in USA with few berries as possible?

You're putting words into my mouth, which I have never said. Stop making BS up.

If USA wants to add further laws for cars, they can go ahead and do it, its their country, their laws. What the USA is asking the EU, is to scrap some of the environmental laws, designed to protect and benefit ordinary EU citizens. That alone tells you everything you need to know about the shit they are trying to sell.

I guess you would also support the US for forcing us to change laws, where every individual can buy guns in the EU, thus benefit US arms industry right? Where does it end?

And so what if the USA is the biggest economy in the world? Does that mean we have to bend over and accept the terms they are giving us? We also have leverage on them, e.i 500+ million market that USA corporations are having wet dreams about.

The world is bigger than USA and it will only get bigger in the future.

That's exactly what you're arguing for. Otherwise, what's your argument? The US is threatening to stop doing a certain kind of business with Germany. They can do that. Germany now gets to decide if they care enough to respond with different legislation. That's called diplomacy.

I support gun control, but for the sake of argument, yes it'd be fine if the US threatened action over that in the EU, and it's up to the EU to react to that as they see fit.

The world is a big place, but as another poster corrected me, you don't pass the US in GDP until you collect the entirety of the EU together. If the US wants to push on Germany, there's a hell of a lot of pressure on the Germans to respond.

Are you aware of how many post-WW2 agreements are in place that force countries under trade conditions? this isnt about cars, its about nearly everything, including that katy perry song currently being played on bbc1 radio which is legally having to be played due to quota.

Right, which is diplomacy. Y'all are falling into the trap that people do in the US of thinking you have free speech but other people don't have free speech to respond to you about what you said.

You have the freedom to pass whatever rules you want. But other nations have the freedom to respond to that however they see fit, and one of those possible consequences is decreased trade. If you don't want that, then negotiate. That's basic politics.

 

[Kwame120]

How does any of this relate to the safety of genetically modified food at all? Countries and NGO's from all over the world have tested GMO food and not found any safety issues. If we're still going back and forth on what constitutes 'science,' I assure you that throwing around a bunch of unrelated data points is in the 'not' category.

If a GMO is found to be perfectly safe for consumption and the environment, then it will pass the tests of the EU and therefore will be allowed to be sold. Quoting other countries where they have been found to be safe strengthens the argument that they should be tested in the EU as they would pass those tests, and if not then it just shows that the EU is stricter with regards to new foods and thus, by argument, safer.

 

[Stinkles]

I hate America.

You're entitled to but in this case you should save some for the craven governments who capitulated.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

If a GMO is found to be perfectly safe for consumption and the environment, then it will pass the tests of the EU and therefore will be allowed to be sold. Quoting other countries where they have been found to be safe strengthens the argument that they should be tested in the EU as they would pass those tests, and if not then it just shows that the EU is stricter with regards to new foods and thus, by argument, safer.

Because unnecessary and redundant testing is a long-standing way to restrain trade. Testing the same thing 50 times imposes additional costs and slows the delivery of products to market. That's why this is a valid topic to negotiate in a free trade agreement.

 

[jimbobsmells]

You're entitled to but in this case you should save some for the craven governments who capitulated.

And those who are complicit. Looking at you, UK.

 

[Sarcasm]

Presumably because 2015 data is not yet available.





If that's true, why doesn't the US just allow the EU to stick with its current laws, i.e. testing the food until it's considered safe? Surely nothing could be found anyway?

There is enough data. Big Data has increased since then.

 

[F1Fan]

That is to be seen. The investigation is ongoing and it is totally possible Volkswagen will pay in the billions, if not tens of billions, in fines and such.

And we are not talking about breaking the law. We are talking about not being able to sell European cars anymore in the US. Which is a pretty major thing and should not be dismissed lightly. Should we just accept everything the US says? Of course not! But you can't ignore it straight away also.


Negotiations are always in secret. As long as the final draft is public and goes through each elected parliament for approval, there is nothing wrong with that.

Wow billions in fine, an amount VW can make in a year or two back. Man that sure is a heavy fine....

And about blocking the sales of cars, let them do it. Sometimes you have to grown a spine and tell them the threat they are giving is unacceptable. I am pretty sure the EU car industry will survive without the USA, albeit in a smaller capacity, but the demand for german cars will always be all around the world, especially in the developing and growing Asia region.

If the trade deal is, not being able to sale cars or a shorter life expectancy, I will always take not being able to sell cars.

And if we give into this issue, where does it then stop? USA corporations being exempt from being taxed? Allowing US gun sales in the EU?

 

[Hari Seldon]

Have you looked at your obesity rates and low living age? I am sure the two aren't related....

And I am sure I could find one study to support that fact, but I can't be bothered to look for it. Large parts of the world don't consume or support GMO's.

Think what you want to think.

GMOs have nothing to do with obesity rates. Well maybe they do in the fact that our cow feed is so cheap that we over produce beef which is why our portion sizes are too large. But overall the USs obesity problem is related to our poor people only eating shit food because we don't have social programs like Europe. GMOs have nothing to do with any of that.

 

[Kwame120]

Because unnecessary and redundant testing is a long-standing way to restrain trade. Testing the same thing 50 times imposes additional costs and slows the delivery of products to market. That's why this is a valid topic to negotiate in a free trade agreement.

Yes, and I believe that "agreeing on standards" essentially means lowering the standards of the EU. It'd be better to, instead of adjusting standards, create a test which okays a product in multiple regions. I really doubt that companies can't afford to simply test their products to a higher standard generally, which would also be beneficial to US citizens.

 

[F1Fan]

That's exactly what you're arguing for. Otherwise, what's your argument? The US is threatening to stop doing a certain kind of business with Germany. They can do that. Germany now gets to decide if they care enough to respond with different legislation. That's called diplomacy.

I support gun control, but for the sake of argument, yes it'd be fine if the US threatened action over that in the EU, and it's up to the EU to react to that as they see fit.

The world is a big place, but as another poster corrected me, you don't pass the US in GDP until you collect the entirety of the EU together. If the US wants to push on Germany, there's a hell of a lot of pressure on the Germans to respond.



Right, which is diplomacy. Y'all are falling into the trap that people do in the US of thinking you have free speech but other people don't have free speech to respond to you about what you said.

You have the freedom to pass whatever rules you want. But other nations have the freedom to respond to that however they see fit, and one of those possible consequences is decreased trade. If you don't want that, then negotiate. That's basic politics.

Lol USA telling the world how diplomacy should be done. No wonder all of the middle-east is beyond fucked. The result of two decades of USA style diplomacy.

Either you accept the terms, or we will try and destroy your industry/country, ether economically or militarily. Good old USA Diplomacy. How dear you, denie the opportunity to trade with your safe laws....

As for the pressure on Germany. Hasn't history taught you anything? Since when have the Germans ever gave in to the pressure? They rather go down fighting than bending over. Majority of countries do not bend to pressure.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Wow billions in fine, an amount VW can make in a year or two back. Man that sure is a heavy fine....

And about blocking the sales of cars, let them do it. Sometimes you have to grown a spine and tell them the threat they are giving is unacceptable. I am pretty sure the EU car industry will survive without the USA, albeit in a smaller capacity, but the demand for german cars will always be all around the world, especially in the developing and growing Asia region.

If the trade deal is, not being able to sale cars or a shorter life expectancy, I will always take not being able to sell cars.

And if we give into this issue, where does it then stop? USA corporations being exempt from being taxed? Allowing US gun sales in the EU?

Good thing people like you are not negotiating trade deals. Next up, just built a wall, it shows you have a spine.

As I said, you shouldn't just sign anything another country wants. But there are negotiations. There is some give and take, that in the end should benefit you with what you get out of it.

 

[Frankfurter]

There is enough data. Big Data has increased since then.

What? Care to share that data?

 

[oti]

Banning German cars... This tells me Econ 101 should be mandatory.

 

[F1Fan]

Good thing people like you are not negotiating trade deals. Next up, just built a wall, it shows you have a spine.

As I said, you shouldn't just sign anything another country wants. But there are negotiations. There is some give and take, that in the end should benefit you with what you get out of it.

Yeah sure. That's why in the modern world, there is an ever growing gap between and rich, young people saddled with debt before they even have a job, housing far too expensive. All in a space of a 30 to 40 years. Man those deals must be sweet

Those sweet deals with corporations sure seem to be paying off well for the average consumer.

 

[SilentRob]

I though this was beautfiful:

"Greenpeace activists project #TTIPleaks documents on the Berlin Reichstag."

Also, they placed a transparent truck with the documents inside as a mobile "reading room" in front of the Brandenburger Tor:

That Greenpeace PR game is on point.

 

[Kinitari]

lol

It's quite fascinating to see someone thinking "let's test things first before we sell it to people" is anti-science.

All GMOs are tested first, all of them - like a lot. In the US specifically, I'm talking about. In Canada we test any novel new food - plant, animal whatever, before we sell - that includes foods that are derived via traditional breeding methods. If anything in the US, they need to start testing -non- lab derived GM foods as much.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Yeah sure. That's why in the modern world, there is an ever growing gap between and rich, young people saddled with debt before they even have a job, housing far too expensive.

Those sweet deals with corporations sure seem to be paying off well for the average consumer.

Those are some jumps you make from negotiating a trade deal. Those things have little to do with this.

Governments should look at what is good for their citizens. If the EU thinks they can make a good deal that will benefit their people, they should negotiate for that and then sell it to their populations, which has chosen their government representatives to approve or deny it.

Taking hard and final stances in these things benefits no one.

 

[Kinitari]

Yes, and I believe that "agreeing on standards" essentially means lowering the standards of the EU. It'd be better to, instead of adjusting standards, create a test which okays a product in multiple regions. I really doubt that companies can't afford to simply test their products to a higher standard generally, which would also be beneficial to US citizens.

Agreeing on standards could mean just that - that they want the EU, once agreeing upon a set of standards for food testing, to use the standards across members of the agreement - which I can appreciate in theory.

 

[F1Fan]

Those are some jumps you make from negotiating a trade deal. Those things have little to do with this.

Governments should look at what is good for their citizens. If the EU thinks they can make a good deal that will benefit their people, they should negotiate for that and then sell it to their populations, which has chosen their government representatives to approve or deny it.

Taking hard and final stances in these things benefits no one.

Seems to be the USA has pretty much made their position clear. Allow GMO and we will allow car sales. Don't see much the EU can do here, other than accept or deny the offer.

Even allowing 1% of GMO is then already damaging EU citizens.

I rather take my health over the sale of some cars. No thanks

 

[Kurdel]

That Greenpeace PR game is on point.

That's really cool!

 

[ClosingADoor]

Seems to be the USA has pretty much made their position clear. Allow GMO and we will allow car sales. Don't see much the EU can do here, other than accept or deny the offer.

Even allowing 1% of GMO is then already damaging EU citizens.

I rather take my health over the sale of some cars. No thanks

Can you provide me with a study that says GMOs are proven bad? Because I don't see Americans dropping like flies lately because of what they eat. Seems to me most of their problems are with their diet, portion size and exercise. Issues we already have here in the EU and plenty of it.

And there is a lot you can do. That's why it's called negotiating. That is always why it is done in secret, so the US doesn't look like fools when they don't follow through on that threat for example. It really seems like you don't grasp how negotiating things works.

 

[Kwame120]

Agreeing on standards could mean just that - that they want the EU, once agreeing upon a set of standards for food testing, to use the standards across members of the agreement - which I can appreciate in theory.

Well, the only theory I'd agree on for "agreeing on standards" would be "rising to the level of EU standards", which wouldn't really be agreeing on standards and more the EU forcing them on any imported products (which I agree with), so I feel like it's be more like "meeting in the middle", and I feel like compromise shouldn't be made with regards to regulatory standards. That's why I specify a universal test, isn't doesn't imply that compromise with regards to standards.

 

[Kinitari]

Seems to be the USA has pretty much made their position clear. Allow GMO and we will allow car sales. Don't see much the EU can do here, other than accept or deny the offer.

Even allowing 1% of GMO is then already damaging EU citizens.

I rather take my health over the sale of some cars. No thanks

Are you the sort of person that values scientific consensus? ie, Scientific consensus on things like... anthropomorphic climate change, Evolution, relativity - etc?

Well, the only theory I'd agree on for "agreeing on standards" would be "rising to the level of EU standards", which wouldn't really be agreeing on standards and more the EU forcing them on any imported products (which I agree with), so I feel like it's be more like "meeting in the middle", and I feel like compromise shouldn't be made with regards to regulatory standards. That's why I specify a universal test, isn't doesn't imply that compromise with regards to standards.

Well let's take Canada for example - our regulatory bodies take food safety seriously, and all novel foodstuff - doesn't matter if it's GMO from a lab or cross breed novel, are put through rigorous food safety standards testing. Would that seem good? I'm not sure if the EU does that, but if it didn't, wouldn't it be raising the standards for the EU to do so? I bring this up to highlight that the assumption that the EU's standards are inherently better in -all- respects might need to be challenged.

 

[spekkeh]

How does any of this relate to the safety of genetically modified food at all? Countries and NGO's from all over the world have tested GMO food and not found any safety issues. If we're still going back and forth on what constitutes 'science,' I assure you that throwing around a bunch of unrelated data points is in the 'not' category.

Because what is 'safe' is a matter of opinion, and what the US considers safe is demonstrably bad for you. Therefore, their opinion is wholly irrelevant.

 

[F1Fan]

Can you provide me with a study that says GMOs are proven bad?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=GMO+bad+for+health

And there is a lot you can do. That's why it's called negotiating. That is always why it is done in secret, so the US doesn't look like fools when they don't follow through on that threat for example. It really seems like you don't grasp how negotiating things works.

I do know how negotiation works. But what if, let's say allowing GMO is unacceptable to the EU at any level?

How would you then negotiate? USA does not want to compromise, neither does the EU?

What's so hard to understand about this. For me any negotiation for GMO is not on, no matter how small and at what level.

 

[Kinitari]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=GMO+bad+for+health

Cool - I followed the link, and all seemingly reputable sources say that GMOs are not bad for your health. So I guess that means you're okay with GMOs?

 

[Kwame120]

Are you the sort of person that values scientific consensus? ie, Scientific consensus on things like... anthropomorphic climate change, Evolution, relativity - etc?



Well let's take Canada for example - our regulatory bodies take food safety seriously, and all novel foodstuff - doesn't matter if it's GMO from a lab or cross breed novel, are put through rigorous food safety standards testing. Would that seem good?

I doubt that either of us have the required knowledge and skill-set to scientifically compare the sets of standards, and say that they are equivalent or that one is better than the other, short of comparing specific GMOs and their acceptance in either market. It would be the job of the EU regulatory body to say that Canada's standards satisfy the EU standards and vice-versa, and because of some countries having demonstrably lower standards, a universal standard would not be ideal for a single country, so it just makes sense to have a universal test as I described earlier.

 

[ClosingADoor]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=GMO+bad+for+health


I do know how negotiation works. But what if, let's say allowing GMO is unacceptable to the EU at any level?

How would you then negotiate? USA does not want to compromise, neither does the EU?

What's so hard to understand about this. For me any negotiation for GMO is not on, no matter how small and at what level.

I see a lot of links saying the studies against GMOs are bullshit. On what information did you base your opinion on this matter, that makes you think it is so bad for people?

And if nobody wants to compromise, then you don't make a deal. It just seems like both the EU and US will want to compromise some, or they would have walked away a long time ago.

Maybe for you personally that is the case. But not for everyone.

Yeah of course I support science. But why are they trying to export us GMO food, when we already have plenty of non-GMO food available. This is not Africa, where they are struggling to grow food for themselves. Trying to solve a problem, where there isn't one, purely for cash reasons.

This whole thing is simply about $$$ and any time there is a lot of $$$, damaging shit gets overlooked for $$$. It's simple really, and what will happen with farmers here in the EU who grow naturally, but then might have to compete with cheap junk GMO?

How is that in any benefit to the EU citizen health or farm producers here?

A trade deal is about money, no shit Sherlock. Why are we trying to sell cars in the US, they have plenty of cars themselves available!

 

[F1Fan]

Are you the sort of person that values scientific consensus? ie, Scientific consensus on things like... anthropomorphic climate change, Evolution, relativity - etc?



Well let's take Canada for example - our regulatory bodies take food safety seriously, and all novel foodstuff - doesn't matter if it's GMO from a lab or cross breed novel, are put through rigorous food safety standards testing. Would that seem good? I'm not sure if the EU does that, but if it didn't, wouldn't it be raising the standards for the EU to do so? I bring this up to highlight that the assumption that the EU's standards are inherently better in -all- respects might need to be challenged.

Yeah of course I support science. But why are they trying to export us GMO food, when we already have plenty of non-GMO food available. This is not Africa, where they are struggling to grow food for themselves. Trying to solve a problem, where there isn't one, purely for cash reasons.

This whole thing is simply about $$$ and any time there is a lot of $$$, damaging shit gets overlooked for $$$. It's simple really, and what will happen with farmers here in the EU who grow naturally, but then might have to compete with cheap junk GMO?

How is that in any benefit to the EU citizen health or farm producers here?

 

[F1Fan]

I am amazed at how people just accept GMO where there is no need for it. I mean, is anyone fcking hungry in the USA or EU that we need GMO to compensate?

wtf am I reading here?

Why don't we walk around with air canisters and a mask and breath that instead of the fresh air all around? That's whats happening here....

 

[Kinitari]

Yeah of course I support science. But why are they trying to export us GMO food, when we already have plenty of non-GMO food available. This is not Africa, where they are struggling to grow food for themselves. Trying to solve a problem, where there isn't one, purely for cash reasons.

This whole thing is simply about $$$ and any time there is a lot of $$$, damaging shit gets overlooked for $$$. It's simple really, and what will happen with farmers here in the EU who grow naturally, but then might have to compete with cheap junk GMO?

How is that in any benefit to the EU citizen health or farm producers here?

How about cheaper food for EU citizens? Do you know how cheaper food effects a country? As far as I've seen, cheaper food has a significantly positive effect on developing nations, but still has a positive effect on developed nations as well. With no negative outcome, and many potential positive - it seems like a good idea to me.

Especially considering the sale of GM foods is legal in the EU, as far as I understand, with no negative health effects noted.

I am amazed at how people just accept GMO where there is no need for it. I mean, is anyone fcking hungry in the USA or EU that we need GMO to compensate?

wtf am I reading here?

Why don't we walk around with air canisters and a mask and breath that instead of the fresh air all around? That's whats happening here....

Lets say there was a GMO that could reduce the cost of farming significantly, and also reduce the amount of pesticides used as well as had a longer shelf life and less carcinogens - basically a healthier strain of a fruit or vegetable. Wouldn't it be a detriment to a country to not sell it?

 

[F1Fan]

How about cheaper food for EU citizens? Do you know how cheaper food effects a country? As far as I've seen, cheaper food has a significantly positive effect on developing nations, but still has a positive effect on developed nations as well. With no negative outcome, and many potential positive - it seems like a good idea to me.

Especially considering the sale of GM foods is legal in the EU, as far as I understand, with no negative health effects noted.

Ah a race to the bottom. That has always worked out great in any other industry.

What about when we reach the bottom, and we then start making safety compromises in order to produce even more cheap food.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I am amazed at how people just accept GMO where there is no need for it. I mean, is anyone fcking hungry in the USA or EU that we need GMO to compensate?

wtf am I reading here?

Why don't we walk around with air canisters and a mask and breath that instead of the fresh air all around? That's whats happening here....

I am amazed you are so against it, without any proof shown from your side yet that it is bad.

And yes, we should want cheaper and more effective ways to feed the world.

Ah a race to the bottom. That has always worked out great in any other industry.

What about when we reach the bottom, and we then start making safety compromises in order to produce even more cheap food.

What safety compromises have we made in this race to the bottom at the moment exactly? You are throwing around a lot of accusations, with little proof to back your statements up.

 

[Gutek]

Yeah of course I support science. But why are they trying to export us GMO food, when we already have plenty of non-GMO food available. This is not Africa, where they are struggling to grow food for themselves. Trying to solve a problem, where there isn't one, purely for cash reasons.

This whole thing is simply about $$$ and any time there is a lot of $$$, damaging shit gets overlooked for $$$. It's simple really, and what will happen with farmers here in the EU who grow naturally, but then might have to compete with cheap junk GMO?

How is that in any benefit to the EU citizen health or farm producers here?

Ah, good old European protectionism. That's why the biggest and most important companies in countries like Germany are 100 years old. Stifle innovation, appeal to moral standards, spread paranoia.

 

[Lucumo]

Neither Trump nor Clinton seem to like it though, which is why Obama tries to have it signed before he leaves the white house.

Simple reverse psychology.

 

[F1Fan]

Ah, good old European protectionism. That's why the biggest and most important companies in countries like Germany are 100 years old. Stifle innovation, appeal to moral standards, spread paranoia.

Better than being ruled by corporations that then go and pay politicians than further their corporate interests.

Sadly its creeping in the EU slowly as well.

 

[Gutek]

Better than being ruled by corporations that then go and pay politicians than further their corporate interests.

Sadly its creeping in the EU slowly as well.

Yes, more paranoia. I need MORE.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Better than being ruled by corporations that then go and pay politicians than further their corporate interests.

Sadly its creeping in the EU slowly as well.

You are aware that those companies profiting from protectionism would be doing exactly the same right? Or are these somehow less evil then those American corporations?

 

[Kinitari]

Ah a race to the bottom. That has always worked out great in any other industry.

What about when we reach the bottom, and we then start making safety compromises in order to produce even more cheap food.

How about you just... don't make safety compromises? It works, and then you have cheaper food.