Discotheque
Banned
that villain ranking is pretty good though. zuko was the worst when he was a villain.
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Legend of Korra Book 3: Change |OT| SCHEDULEBENDING
- Thread starter Satch
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Just no. Majority of Bolin's jokes are forced and just feel out of place and stupid.
WrenchNinja
Member
You mean we had two and half books of following an antagonist, watching him grow as a person and eventually deciding to join the protagonist? "Whining" about his father's love is yknow kind of the focal point of his character arc. Something the entirety or Korras cast of characters lack.
Discotheque
Banned
yeah one show had character development, the other often cuts it short and shortchanges them.
but when it comes down to their motivations itself, zuko just always seemed like the weakest in this universe. the whining did get annoying pretty quickly. very generic villain.
korra's characters all have far greater potential, it's just a shame it tends to be wasted.
edit: and damn i didn't know so many people got tired of bolin's jokes. i found him funnier than sokka from jump. they need to lighten up on it though, he's had the least substance out of them all.
but when it comes down to their motivations itself, zuko just always seemed like the weakest in this universe. the whining did get annoying pretty quickly. very generic villain.
korra's characters all have far greater potential, it's just a shame it tends to be wasted.
edit: and damn i didn't know so many people got tired of bolin's jokes. i found him funnier than sokka from jump. they need to lighten up on it though, he's had the least substance out of them all.
This clip from episode 12 is Bolin at his worst. I still quite like him and find him pretty amusing, but i've been pretty disappointed with his character development so far in the show. At least its better than Book 2 were he regressed quite a bit.
Well he does have a good reason to be whining considering what he's been through. You know just having half his face burnt by his own father, then being exiled from the fire nation, being told the only way to regain his honour and be allowed back was by capturing the Avatar who has been missing for around a hundred years at this point.
WrenchNinja
Member
What is weak about his motivation? He is the exiled prince, son of the main villain, seeking redemption. He has the strongest motivation next to Aang. I'm not sure how Zuko is all that generic. I've personally never seen a villain to hero change done in such a way before.
Discotheque
Banned
all that is why i don't like him tbh. it just facilitates teen angst. his scenes got a bit grating, and if it wasn't for iroh i may have just skipped the series.
i really appreciated the villains in korra more since they had more interesting backstories imo, and the equality angle from amon was good. ending these guys per season was at it's detriment though. amon could have been the GOAT in the universe, now he just looks half-baked.
i really appreciated the villains in korra more since they had more interesting backstories imo, and the equality angle from amon was good. ending these guys per season was at it's detriment though. amon could have been the GOAT in the universe, now he just looks half-baked.
Plus Zuko isn't completely one track get the avatar all the time, there are conflicting motives when it comes to how he relates to azula/ozai/the fire nation. I'd say he seems less creepy/threatening then the main Korra villains though, but the (attempted) tone is quite different this time round.
Citizen_Insane
Member
It's been quoted a lot by now, but I love this post and agree completely. The only character in this show worth a damn to me at this point is Asami. And I hate that they add characters like Zuko into the story only to make him not matter in any meaningful way. What's the point?
This was a great episode, though. Easily my favorite of this season. The ending fight with Tenzin was just brutal.
Daria Morgendorffer
Member
While catching up with the thread I read the ethnicities in the avatar world discussion and I was reminded of the fact that there are in fact black people in the world of avatar.
http://atla.avatarspirit.net/screenshots.php?quality=dvd&num=212&page=7 in the fake airbenders group
Just thought this was interesting to note.
http://atla.avatarspirit.net/screenshots.php?quality=dvd&num=212&page=7 in the fake airbenders group
Just thought this was interesting to note.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I just spent the entire night watching this entire season for the first time. They better not have
. I will be so pissed. These guys are out of control. Everything falling apart and I can't handle the suspense....what a great season! Legitimately teared up while watching Tenzin stand his ground.
killed my boy Tenzin
Amon - greatest hypocrite in the world with stupidly retconned powers, who actually makes a good point as far as equality goes, but is ultimately beaten and silenced by violence and his entire organisation just disappears
Unalaq - evil for apparently no fucking reason other than a spirit fetish; dealt with in the most asinine fight I've ever seen
Zaheer - season ain't over yet but he seems to be another clueless anarchist that thinks erasing societal infrastructure will somehow make the world a better place because "disorder is the natural order" or some shit like that
None of these guys are half as interesting or complex as Zuko to me.
Bolin can be funny when he's ready. Like when he was trying to convince Mako to go on the trip with them for the search for new airbenders, but that clip from episode 12 is terrible.
From ATLA one of the funniest scenes to me doesn't even have Sokka as the focal point. It's when Katara wanted to go to jail and pretended to earthbend. I remember literally rolling when I saw that.
From ATLA one of the funniest scenes to me doesn't even have Sokka as the focal point. It's when Katara wanted to go to jail and pretended to earthbend. I remember literally rolling when I saw that.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
"That lemur- He's earthbending!"
Even some of the darkest TLA episodes managed to have great moments of humour (In Zuko Alone the "Made in Earth Kingdom" inscription on the dagger, Sokka with the flower in The Southern Raiders, a bunch of good jokes in The Puppetmaster) I'm not sure what's wrong with LoK, but most of the successful moments of humour come from Tenzin.
Admiral Woofington
Member
That Lemur! It's earthbending!
That's the thing about ATLA. The writing was solid and it didn't take itself seriously when it didn't need to. I remember one of my favorite moments was when they show you a scene in a jail and one of the fire guys throws a man overboard.
"This is unacceptable! Somebody go find the captain"
"Uh s-sir? That was the captain you threw overboard".
Or when they visit that town having avatar day and the ugly old man makes them look at him all dramatically so they see how ugly he is. Heck plenty of scenes get me imho. It was a show that told jokes when it didn't need to be serious. I'm genuinely curious if the writers for korra aren't the same as ATLA because it wouldn't be surprising imho. Most jokes fall flat on their face.
Icyflamez96
Member
Sounds like the start of a Naruto jutsu
coolfighter1993
Banned
At least, Amon and Zaheer didn't whine as much as Zuko...
All Zuko did during season 1 was whine about his lost 'precious' honour all the time, it got really annoying. He became a little bit better in season 2 when he was an anti-hero.
In addition, he was really weak, he got regularly owned by Aang ,Katara and Azula. At least, Amon & Zaheer could hold their own against the main characters.
Admiral Woofington
Member
He wasn't regularly owned by katara. One of the few times they fought he had little interest in fighting her and they were in a place full of water and snow so she instantly caught him when his interest was only in getting the avatar. And he later escaped with the avatar. During the aang and katara vs Azula and zuko fight they were pretty evenly matched when they switched fighting partners. And that's when Katara was practically a master water bender.
As to Azula the show makes very very clear that she was this firebending genius prodigy even from an early age. Zuko had to fight and struggle the whole way to his current level and he didn't even stand a chance against her until she was going crazy and slipping. He acknowledges he couldn't beat her otherwise.
It's a nice lesson that there are always people better than you out there.
coolfighter1993
Banned
Could be true, but you can't deny that Amon & Zaheer had a stronger presence than Zuko.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
I'm already shipping the not made up yet characters
TacticalFox88
Banned
I'll even go as far as saying as none of the Korra villains, except Amon, don't even approach Admiral Zhao.
Yes, but you have to look at his whole journey. I agree that Zuko was weak both in actual battle strength and in character during season 1. I never really saw him as a threat. Just being a bit stronger than a soldiers doesn't make you dangerous, when you're angry and too impatient for bigger plans than "catch the avatar NOW". But he quickly got better and learned a lot that made him stronger in both.
Amon was fine, but he could've been good, if they didn't weaken his agenda so much with his true intentions and lying. And regarding Zaheer, I want to wait if and how they further develope him.
Amon was fine, but he could've been good, if they didn't weaken his agenda so much with his true intentions and lying. And regarding Zaheer, I want to wait if and how they further develope him.
Awesome, let's do this and then sell out to Cartoon Network!
Admiral Woofington
Member
No they didn't. Amon was a cool, calm and collected villain but he had no personality and no personal growth until the last episode when we find out who he is.
Zaheer and crew have been cool to see battle, but that's just from a perspective of fighting animation of him and his team. They are typical boring villains who come out of nowhere and are just the best of their kind. The shadow of Azula always came down to Zuko so it made sense he wasn't the best firebender. Heck Iroh is better than almost all of them when he got serious. Good enough to maybe defeat the fire lord at his strongest point.
These villains in Korra have almost reached Gary Stu levels of ridiculous and overpowered at points when they have little reason to be other than the necessity to be stronger so the avatar has to defeat them. Zaheer is a novice airbender and he can already do shit not even Aang could do like talking while in the spirit world. The rest of his crew can apparently also absolutely wreck Zuko, Korra's father, and the twins all who are master water benders and heavily experienced at fighting while none of them has had much practice in ages.
Their introduction of "oh btw there are these group of villains we have never mentioned since season 1 who are like the most dangerous benders ever" made me roll my eyes.
Every season Zuko had a different personal growth to do. Season 1 it was his struggle with his mission, season 2 it was his enemy of the state anti-hero status and the struggle between good and evil inside him, then season 3 was his seeking of true redemption after betraying everybody that trusted him. His character was interesting as shit, whining in season 1 aside. And he became pretty strong throughout his journey,NV culminating from learning different non-aggressive fire bending from the dragons.
coolfighter1993
Banned
Zhao was an idiot who burned three of his own ships, the whole battle felt so cheesy and childish.
Icyflamez96
Member
How does that have anything to do with airbending?
I honestly don't understand why people are so confused as to why he is so proficient in the spirit world. He's probably been a spiritual person most of his life, and on top of that, he literally had 13 years to himself which he likely spend most of his time in the spirit world.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Am I missing something? They have never said only benders can enter the spirit world. The founder of the Red Lotus has his own grove in the spirit world and Zaheer learned from airbenders and seemed very spiritual. I think its reasonable to expect that Zaheer was meditating a lot during those thirteen years of prison.
bishopcruz
Member
Thing is, Zuko was very rarely cast as the straight up villain, there was generally someone worse than him around, so he was always an anti-hero, even from season 1. I actually liked his overall arc, though man alive it lost momentum for the first half of season 3 (Then again, S3 was pretty bad when it came to momentum.)
The worst of the big villains in the series was Ozai. He just plain sucked. They spent too much time making him a mystery that when he finally showed up, he just felt rather meh. No real personality other than evil bastard, and I never felt that he was the most bad ass bender around as was often stated.
Azula though, best villain in all the Avatar-verse bar none. Also the villain with the most satisfying arc and best conclusion to that arc. Amon was great for what he was, and Unalaq had potential, but it always felt like he was created out of leftover ideas for Amon that didn't get used because of him being dead.
The worst of the big villains in the series was Ozai. He just plain sucked. They spent too much time making him a mystery that when he finally showed up, he just felt rather meh. No real personality other than evil bastard, and I never felt that he was the most bad ass bender around as was often stated.
Azula though, best villain in all the Avatar-verse bar none. Also the villain with the most satisfying arc and best conclusion to that arc. Amon was great for what he was, and Unalaq had potential, but it always felt like he was created out of leftover ideas for Amon that didn't get used because of him being dead.
Admiral Woofington
Member
That's only a symptom of the issues. He didn't even have air bending prior to this and could kick the ass of master benders, not to mention he was still somewhat holding his own against tenzin, even if ultimately he was outclassed. But it took the best airbender in the whole current series to bring him down? And your only excuse is "he's super strong I swear he really likes air culture"? That's an excuse to have him be as strong as he is. The creators are already bullshitting us with certain stuff like what the avatar state is like, consistent writing is the least of their priorities. They needed OP villains this season so they brought them out of nowhere.
Icyflamez96
Member
I was just talking about his spiritual stuff.
Anyway, they said he could take down most benders even before he had airbending. So it's not much of a surprise that he can still take down most benders with airbending
WrenchNinja
Member
Zhao killed the fucking moon.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Pre-reveal Amon was the best villain in the series by far. An excellent and iconic design, a motivation that actually felt surprisingly well-justified and convincing, an air of mystery that kept the suspense going, unbelievable swagger that just made him seem so much more than he was, and some incredible drama scenes. He easily should have been the over-arching villain for the series, but without the stupid "actually an evil bloodbender lol" reveal, but instead a genuine Equalist.
Also, dat theme.
Also, dat theme.
Icyflamez96
Member
Icyflamez96
Member
I'm thinking the story will go into next season.
WrenchNinja
Member
We have a reveal in the penultimate episode from his brother that tells us he's really just a waterbender and he's doing all this stuff for...reasons? Cause he hates his dad?
We never really get any explanation from him. Was the whole thing phony? Did he really believe any of the stuff he was saying? Did he just think his bending was a gift to take away bending from others? Who the fuck knows. They killed him off.
Yeah, Amon had such potential. Sadly he was wasted.
Icyflamez96
Member
If you're talking about Tobi's
It was pretty much a character that was so obvious that people just assumed that it was a red herring...that ended up being true. What made it so horrible was the fact that the writer probably decided it later than before. (There is a scene were he's thinking to himself as someone else, he was pretending to be another character, but his thoughts showed that he actually thought he was said character)
As for Amon, it just ended up being some dude, sure he was the other Blood Benders Brother, but that is brought up so soon, it seemed like it was just plastered their to give him an identity.
Amon wasn't a mystery that needed to be solved, because the mask becomes meaningless if it's not a character that we seen before.
I'm sure Red Lotus will carry over to Book 4 in some aspect. Zaheer though that's up in the air at the moment considering whats happened to the previous villains in Korra so far.
But yeah would have been nice to get some more background on the other Red Lotus members and their motives.
I await its future of getting cancelled after one season for not selling enough toys.
Icyflamez96
Member
You mean he was was thinking as if he was actually Madara? I thought it was kind of obvious that it was Obito with the whole Kakashi Gaiden backstory and Tobi having that one Sharingan. I didn't really think that alone made it bad, it was just whatever.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Yeah...and regardless, Tenzen has been spiritual all his life and can't access the spirit world while Korra can just because. It has nothing to do with airbending proficiency. Some people are simply more adept or attuned to it than others
I think summing up Zuko was a whiner is pretty dismissive of his character as a whole. Zuko was a conflicted person and he was more often than not his own enemy because he stakes his honour on his father's perception of him. I found his story to be very compelling and I think it probably speaks to everyone.
Zuko wasn't the strongest bender but he could hold his own against some of the best benders in the series when he finally found himself. I'd say he was on par with Katara and enough of a threat to Azula to make her go all out (I haven't forgotten how psychologically compromised she was during their Agni Kai).
ATLAB Zuko would still mop the floor with everyone in LOK though. Bending in LOK is pathetic compared to bending in ATLAB.
Honestly, not even kidding, I liked Zhao as a villain and I think he was pretty damn dangerous. I definitely like him better than the Korra villains thus far, and his ambition was dangerous.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Zhao was ultimately defeated by his own ambition. Which is poetic imho.
coolfighter1993
Banned
Don't get me wrong, I like Zuko but his enormous amount of drama attached to him made me roll my eyes a couple of times. I just wish that the writers reduced the honour drama a bit.
Icyflamez96
Member
I liked Zuko a lot. I felt like his struggles and conflict were pretty justified.
Also,
Tenzin literally could have taken down all 3 of them if it wasn't for sniper lady
Also,
Tenzin literally could have taken down all 3 of them if it wasn't for sniper lady
WrenchNinja
Member
I don't know how much you know about Fire Nation culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Republic City where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in the Fire Nation, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
Awesome posts. Agree with everything in them.
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