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[LiquidMetal14]

This is rather funny i don't see people saying fucking Geohotz for selling us out .

It's the big corporate entity which is the bad guy here so please don't cloud the conversation

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

I enjoy my PS3, but they definitely overstepped their bounds to ask for this information. I don't see them suffering at all. Piracy is no where near out of hand on the system, and it wouldn't be even if they did nothing about the piracy. It would be within the normal limits of everything other industry who has to deal with this shit and keep on ticking.

 

[J Tourettes]

Thank God that justice will finally be served. How very dare people expect privacy in matters such as this.

 

[Trevelyon]

What the FUCK? Sony going off the deep end here..

Duh, WINNING.

 

[-PXG-]

So from the actual order, it looks like all Sony is getting is IP addresses, and they're only allowed to do some simple geolocating to make sure addresses from California ISPs visited those sites.

They'd have to go back to the ISPs to tie those addresses to names, and it doesn't look like they're authorized to do that.

Naturally, everyone's reacting like Sony's going to sue everyone who watched a youtube video. Oh well.

Both sides of this fight have acted sufficiently like dicks that it's impossible for me to root for anyone, but I'd at least like a little sanity in talking about what's going on. "Visitor personal data" sounds a lot more specific than simple IP addresses without permission to ask the ISPs who they belong to.

Correct. If Sony tries to do anything else, they could get them into trouble. Even if they decide to use the IP addresses to file more charges, they won't be allowed to make a case against people in addition to Geohot. It would breach the terms of their original agreement. But, we don't know what, or if any, penalties are in place, if they choose to over step that privilege. If there are, Sony can only use IPs to convince the system to have the trial in California. If there aren't, there's a slight chance Sony could use them for however they please in the future.

I'm not expert of the law or the court system. I'm just going on what I think is logical and makes sense.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Your contributions to charity are commendable. You're not the only one in that regard but I won't skew my discussion point with that.

The thing is I am in the impartial view of being a very legit customer who see's this as a ploy to protect their property. And frankly, it is as simple as this Geohot guy probably raving about this too much. Sony wants to burn their money on this, let them. I see nothing wrong in your donation but I sat around in the I care more about the future of this platform than that of hackers/CFW makers which potentially create piracy/security risks. It's more broad than that but it's not exactly corporate cheering like some say. Some are like that though, don't think I'm all Sony defensive here.

This particular piece of litigation needs more digestion and some clearly have at least read it. Others jumping to the FU Sony stance and clearly not reading at least the OP are sticking out like sore thumbs.

That's a legitimate argument for Sony securing the future of their console, the future of the platform that you own. That's reasonable, and I don't object to them doing things like banning CFW consoles from PSN and anything else to do with the "service" aspect of the Playstation.

But in my view I see that as small fry compared to the consequences of a Sony victory in this matter, and the idea that a company a thousand miles away can demand my identifying information based on me watching a video they disapproved of. If they succeed in these actions (which they appear to be), then it sets a perverse precedent for others.

 

[LowParry]

I don't like either side of how they've treated the situation. Isn't going to stop me from buying Sony products. Isn't going to stop me from not donating to someone's cause of hiring lawyers.

 

[MMaRsu]

Duh, WINNING.

Winning what?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Correct. If Sony tries to do anything else, they could get them into trouble. Even if they decide to use the IP addresses to file more charges, they won't be allowed to make a case against people in addition to Geohot. It would breach the terms of their original agreement. But, we don't know what, or if any, penalties are in place, if they choose to over step that privilege.

It's legally binding so you assume this is not 3rd grade and they want this for exactly the reason the judge agreed to it upon. Again, too many knee jerk screw this or that without fully understanding the text.

 

[androvsky]

That's a legitimate argument for Sony securing the future of their console, the future of the platform that you own. That's reasonable, and I don't object to them doing things like banning CFW consoles from PSN and anything else to do with the "service" aspect of the Playstation.

But in my view I see that as small fry compared to the consequences of a Sony victory in this matter, and the idea that a company a thousand miles away can demand my identifying information based on me watching a video they disapproved of. If they succeed, it sets a perverse precedent for others.

Is there not a difference between identifying information (your name, address, ssn) and potentially identifying information (IP address)? In order to tie one to the other, Sony would have to go through another step they're not allowed to go to, from what the order looks like.

 

[obonicus]

and the idea that a company a thousand miles away can demand my identifying information based on me watching a video they disapproved of.

But that's not really what's happening here, so far that precedent hasn't been set. There are reasons to worry, but I don't think that's a valid one.

 

[alr1ght]

But in my view I see that as small fry compared to the consequences of a Sony victory in this matter, and the idea that a company a thousand miles away can demand my identifying information based on me watching a video they disapproved of. If they succeed in these actions (which they appear to be), then it sets a perverse precedent for others.

Congrats, their lawyers will know what state you live in.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Correct. If Sony tries to do anything else, they could get them into trouble. Even if they decide to use the IP addresses to file more charges, they won't be allowed to make a case against people in addition to Geohot. It would breach the terms of their original agreement. But, we don't know what, or if any, penalties are in place, if they choose to over step that privilege.

As I said elsewhere (and as you've just said also), it bears repeating that this is an evidence gathering exercise on relatively narrow issues. Some here are acting like armed agents are about to kick down their doors at any moment for thought crimes.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

That's a legitimate argument for Sony securing the future of their console, the future of the platform that you own. That's reasonable, and I don't object to them doing things like banning CFW consoles from PSN and anything else to do with the "service" aspect of the Playstation.

But in my view I see that as small fry compared to the consequences of a Sony victory in this matter, and the idea that a company a thousand miles away can demand my identifying information based on me watching a video they disapproved of. If they succeed in these actions (which they appear to be), then it sets a perverse precedent for others.

I agree in part, don't get me wrong. I just don't want my console to be compromised and at potential risk. This is already wide open as it is so I'm honestly a little more worried about things now than about 6 months ago prior to PS3 being hacked.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

So hold the phone here. Would the simple fact that people in Northern California downloaded stuff / went to GeoHotz's website give Sony jurisdiction to sue him in California? Because hell, I don't even own a PS3 much less circumvented one but I've been to his website.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Winning what?

Sony isn't going off the deep end because they are bi-polar, it's because they are bi-winning.

 

[subversus]

It's a Sony.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Donating to an attention whore who has a bullet point on his ass and seems to not take stuff seriously...yea. Great cause.

If you feel superior than the guy yelling "Go Sony!" then more props to you but both are pretty lame "responses" from both sides.

Edit: beaten.

So I explicitly said that I donated "despite Geohot", and you completely ignore that in your rebuttal and make it all about him. Not my concerns of the long-term consequences, not my worries about what a Sony victory entails, but about the person who I said I didn't actually like.

Did you even read my response Cruzader?

You've also still not told me why its lame by the way.

 

[androvsky]

Congrats, their lawyers will know what state you live in.

They won't even know that much, merely that someone in a certain state downloaded something from Geohot's site.

 

[obonicus]

So hold the phone here. Would the simple fact that people in Northern California downloaded stuff / went to GeoHotz's website give Sony jurisdiction to sue him in California? Because hell, I don't even own a PS3 much less circumvented one but I've been to his website.

Yeah, that's what I find kind of more messed up. Not that it isn't legal, but those are serious shenanigans.

 

[-PXG-]

It's legally binding so you assume this is not 3rd grade and they want this for exactly the reason the judge agreed to it upon. Again, too many knee jerk screw this or that without fully understanding the text.

Well if it's legally binding, Sony can't do shit. Therefore, people shouldn't be acting like the sky is falling. They will take George Hotz to court. Whatever happens, happens. It will pretty much be the end up of it. Sony will continue on whatever they do and hackers, modders and pirates alike will do whatever they wish as well. That is, until someone new comes along, who's dumb enough to make a massive public spectacle of the whole matter. Then the entire mess is repeated and we're back at it again.

 

[black_vegeta]

It's a Sony.

I see what you did there.

 

[butter_stick]

See you guys when I'm out of jail.

 

[LowParry]

So hold the phone here. Would the simple fact that people in Northern California downloaded stuff / went to GeoHotz's website give Sony jurisdiction to sue him in California? Because hell, I don't even own a PS3 much less circumvented one but I've been to his website.

Hide your kids, hide your wives...

 

[[Nintex]]

It's the big corporate entity which is the bad guy here so please don't cloud the conversation

It's not about durrr Go Sony or Go Geohotz here. It's already concerning that google/youtube and others have to keep giant databases around to register and log all visitors because of the anti-privacy(anti-terrorist/patriot act/anti-alienmoonbear) laws that have been passed worldwide during these last few years. Now companies can apparently request access to these logs for no good reason.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Well if it's legally binding, Sony can't do shit. Therefore, people shouldn't be acting like the sky is falling. They will take George Hotz to court. Whatever happens, happens. It will pretty much be the end up of it. Sony will continue on whatever they do and hackers, modders and pirates alike will do whatever they wish as well. That is, until someone new comes along, who's dumb enough to make a massive public spectacle of the whole matter. Then the entire mess is repeated and we're back at it again.

I know lol

It's the more rubbish responses which are less welcome. You want to talk serious, don't start off by not reading the text/ruling and come in saying FU SOny.

- Not referring to you btw

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Now companies can apparently request access to these logs for no good reason.

Don't be surprised if this isn't something more companies adopt. The internet is used for everything these days. Thieves, murderers, child predators, and any wrong doers are tracked. In Sony's case, it's within reason as the judge saw enough to grant such a wish.

 

[Lostconfused]

Welp time to start using proxies.

 

[Kagari]

Time to sell my PS3 and PSP even though Sony already got my money a long time ago for them.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Welp time to start using proxies.

Probably want some proximity mines and snipers as well

In seriousness, just stay away or tread carefully for now.

 

[[Nintex]]

Don't be surprised if this isn't something more companies adopt. The internet is used for everything these days. Thieves, murderers, child predators, and any wrong doers are tracked. In Sony's case, it's within reason as the judge saw enough to grant such a wish.

After they commited a crime or are suspected of a crime there's plenty of ways to monitor traffic that don't require companies to keep records of everyone who uses the internet. Innocent untill proven guilty, not "tracked untill something is found that will proof our baseless suspicions". Half the people who 'clicked the link' probably don't own a PS3. What the hell will a bunch of IP's proof in this case?

 

[blu]

Correct. If Sony tries to do anything else, they could get them into trouble. Even if they decide to use the IP addresses to file more charges, they won't be allowed to make a case against people in addition to Geohot. It would breach the terms of their original agreement. But, we don't know what, or if any, penalties are in place, if they choose to over step that privilege. If there are, Sony can only use IPs to convince the system to have the trial in California. If there aren't, there's a slight chance Sony could use them for however they please in the future.

I'm not expert of the law or the court system. I'm just going on what I think is logical and makes sense.

Bluntly geolocating first-hop addresses, without actually tracing the route down to a residential address, is as useless as farting in the wind, for the purposes of this suit.

 

[soldat7]

Creepy

Time to sell my PS3 and PSP even though Sony already got my money a long time ago for them.

I don't think I can support their products in the future.

 

[-PXG-]

Sony wants the IP addresses for two reasons people:

1) To prove that Geohot distributed hacked code and infomation on how made it

2) To prove that people from Northern California visited Geohotz's websites, so that they can hold the trial in the California, instead of New Jersey.

Sony, is most likely legally bound to this motion. Any additional action or any breach could mean some kind of consequences. For instance, let's say Sony wanted to pick a random IP address, find someone's personal info and use it to take sue them. Guess what? They can't. The case will be thrown out before it even gets to trial. So stop freaking out.

Bluntly geolocating first-hop addresses, without actually tracing the route down to a residential address, is as useless as farting in the wind, for the purposes of this suit.

Tell that to Sony

 

[vic2020]

Time to sell my PS3 and PSP even though Sony already got my money a long time ago for them.

but then how will you play Versus?

 

[Kagari]

but then how will you play Versus?

It was a joke post.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

After they commited a crime or are suspected of a crime there's plenty of ways to monitor traffic that don't require companies to keep records of everyone who uses the internet. Innocent untill proven guilty, not "tracked untill something is found that will proof our baseless suspicions". Half the people who 'clicked the link' probably don't own a PS3. What the hell will a bunch of IP's proof in this case?

I don't think anyone has been prosecuted yet though. This sounds to me that it is within legal bounds and unless they find the Zodiac killer or Jimmy Hoffa's murderer, nothing more will come of it. It's all pertaining to how many people actually followed his site and stuff to do wrong or pirate or any other wrong doings. A lot of this is not for public viewing though so many will jump on the hate ship without proper rationale.

 

[whitehawk]

This is beyond a joke. Not being petty or anything, but this has put me off Sony products for a long, long time - and I'm considering trading in my PS3 against 3DS games.

edit - actually, I will get rid of it. Not getting into a debate with anyone, but I'd like to do whatever I want with the product I buy, without potentially being spied upon/threatened by Sony (I know I havent posted the key or anything, but jesus christ, this is ridiculous).

lol oh gaf... It's one thing when an exploit is found on a system, it's different when someone leaks the master keys. Sony can do what they want in this scenario.

 

[Negaiido]

I'm pro Sony on this case. Why would you be against Sony when you don't have anything illegal on your PS3?
If Sony loses this case, it would be the end for PS3 this generation and I don't want that.
If Sony wins it could help stopping some of the hackers.

 

[androvsky]

Sony wants the IP addresses for two reasons people:

1) To prove that Geohot distributed hacked code and infomation on how made it

2) To prove that people from Northern California visited Geohotz's websites, so that they can hold the trial in the California, instead of New Jersey.

Sony, is most likely legally bound to this motion. Any addition action or any breach could mean some kind of consequences. For instance, let's Sony wanted to pick a random IP address, find someone's personal info and use it to take sue them. Guess what? They can't. The case will be thrown out before it even gets to trial. So stop freaking out.

The thread title saying "visitor personal data" doesn't help. I think we're doomed to everyone panicking about this and assuming we're all going to be sued RIAA-style.

 

[Trevelyon]

Time to sell my PS3 and PSP even though Sony already got my money a long time ago for them.

At least wait for Versus XIII to drop before you enact your e-indignation.

EDIT: overmyhead

 

[Shurs]

So what is the point of this?

Will they try to match the IP addresses to those of people logged on to Playstation Network in an attempt to figure out who has installed custom firmware?

 

[Cruzader]

Explain why.

I don't like a future in which Sony wins this, and donated some spare money to try and prevent it. It probably won't make a difference, but I'm proud to have put my money where my mouth is.

Cruzader, tell me why my choice was more pathetic than everything else we've seen. Go on.

And before you try and say I could have donated to a more "worthy" cause, be aware that I already do a shit ton of charity work, so it won't hold.

Ok Ill answer, read the bold....

Its pathetic because guess what? You wont make a difference. Nor the guy yelling "Go Sony!". I called out those donating, like you and the rest call out "Go Sony!" guys....LOL

Seriously though, the case has an outcome, that you nor anyone can sway nor stop. Yes you gave it some try with your money and so did the guy yelling "Go Sony!", he cheered. Big woop for the both of you, though now you are the one losing $$ while the other didnt.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

All roads lead back to GeoHot, this all stems and is completely HIS fault. As someone said before, playing with fire not only burns you, but has the potential to spread to others.

This is does work in GeoHot supporters favor though, now they can "OMFGJDSNHFJ SONY AM EVIL IS TAKING OVER THE WORLD" and keep attention away from the true nexus of the issue.

 

[phosphor112]

Magistrate Judge Joseph C. Spero
United States District Court
Northern District of California
Courtroom A, 15th Floor
450 Golden Gate Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94102

I dunno any girls named Joseph...

It might interest people to read Sony's actual request that was approved by the judge:
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2011/03/speroruling.pdf

Lol, no one is going to read that. Sony is obviously evil and does business with the Devil. This is actually a very interesting read...

 

[SuperSonic1305]

I honestly cannot believe the responses in this thread. Some of you guys have stuff shoved so far up your asses.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Why would you be against Sony when you don't have anything "illegal" on your PS3?

I am 'against Sony' in this matter. From the assumption you write here, what must you conclude about me?

 

[-PXG-]

I'm pro Sony on this case. Why would you be against Sony when you don't have anything "illegal" on your PS3?
If Sony loses this case, it would be the end for PS3 this generation and I don't want that.
If Sony wins it could help stopping one of the hackers.

Fixed that for you....actually...two. Grafloko or whatever his name is. That guy in Germany. Beyond, say fining, two people, and perhaps calming the nerves of investors, this will do jack shit for them. Hacks, mods, homebrew, CFW and piracy will continue it's course. Sure, Sony will take steps to secure PSN, as they rightfully should, but what people do offline, they won't (and shouldn't) have any control over it.

 

[Infinite Justice]

It was a joke post.

and i had a post to continue it.

oh well

 

[androvsky]

So what is the point of this?

Will they try to match the IP addresses to those of people logged on to Playstation Network, in an attempt to figure out who has installed custom firmware?

Sony isn't allowed to have these IP addresses. Only Sony's third-party lawyers may look at them, and only for the purposes of determining where the lawsuit should be held.