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[darkhunger]

Looks like this show should have no trouble getting a season two. Allegedly, it was one of Netflix's most binge watched shows of this year. Here's the article if anyone is interested.

http://m.ign.com/articles/2017/03/31/marvels-iron-fist-was-netflixs-most-binge-watched-drama

Here's a choice quote from the article.

"The actual streams data tells us that what critics consider the best shows and what streaming viewers consider the best are sometimes two very different things," said 7Park Data senior analyst Christopher Coby.

I actually felt the same way. It was the most bingeable of all the Netflix marvel shows for me. The quickest one I finished. I found the others a chore to watch more than a few episodes at a time but this one had me pretty engaged.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/people-quickly-losing-interest-iron-213200854.html

More recent statistics suggest that it has less legs compared to other Marvel Netflix shows though. Apparently there was a big drop off after the first week.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Overall the show felt like a bunch of conflicting ideas on how to treat Iron Fist all met in the writers room, fought a horrific (and badly choreographed) battle, then everyone died.

The core problem is that Danny is ridiculous and incoherently portrayed. They couldn't decide if they wanted him to be a damaged child, a student on the road to self discovery, a mysterious master full of secrets, a naive do-gooder, and more. He changes from scene to scene. There's no sense of growth for Danny. And more than anything, he's too dumb to live.

In spite of this, the show is actually quite watchable. I was never bored somehow, and I credit the strength of literally everyone else in the cast to this. It's ironic that the other characters are constantly telling Danny he's weird, naive, hard to grasp and deal with, unreliable, and misguided. Their remarks almost break the fourth wall as if directed at how Danny is written.

 

[KernelPanic]

I just finished it and found it the most disappointing of all the Marvel Netflix series so far. Still enjoyed watching it but it should have been so much better.

I actually stopped watching after Episode 3 and binge watched into The Badlands which made returning to watching the rest of Iron Fist even worse.

I'm looking forward to Defenders and hopefully they portray Iron Fist better.

 

[eternalcircle]

I guess I shouldn't believe everything IGN says then, lol!

 

[Sevket-Erhat]

I just finished it and found it the most disappointing of all the Marvel Netflix series so far. Still enjoyed watching it but it should have been so much better.

I actually stopped watching after Episode 3 and binge watched into The Badlands which made returning to watching the rest of Iron Fist even worse.

I'm looking forward to Defenders and hopefully they portray Iron Fist better.

into the Badlands is the greatest thing on TV nowadays

 

[autumnleaf]

I'm really struggling to get through this, it's a chore to watch. And Danny is so incompetent it's ridiculous.

 

[OnPoint]

I had a miserable time watching this. Almost every character was absolutely awful. Danny especially.

No thanks to a season 2.

 

[SynthFetish]

I'm on episode 6, I'm enjoying the show.

 

[jetpacks was yes]

I'm on episode 6, I'm enjoying the show.

Brace yourself for episode 8.

 

[Kelsdesu]

Just watched this and can't believe I didn't see anything close to it on Iron Fist.

 

[Volimar]

Just watched this and can't believe I didn't see anything close to it on Iron Fist.

The creative teams need to ditch this "It has to be grounded" kick that they're on.

 

[faint.]

Just finished the series. Pretty meh overall. I couldn't stand Danny as a character for the most part, and even Colleen had some dull moments towards the end of the series. And what the fuck is

Spoiler

Joy's (adding extra text here so people don't read into it)

motive? I have no idea what that final scene was about or where it came from.

 

[Volimar]

And what the fuck is

Spoiler

Joy's (adding extra text here so people don't read into it)

motive? I have no idea what that final scene was about or where it came from.

We're all right there with you on that one.

 

[Phyranion]

I'm not sure what to think of this. I didn't like Danny as a character, but the Meachums were all cool. The MCU has had a lot of evil businessman villains, but Harold might be the most memorable as of yet. Gao was also cool. Can't wait for the Defenders.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Finished. The endgame was a little all over the map, but not nearly as messy as Luke Cage's.

D1 > JJ / IF > D2 > IF

It was entertaining and the highs more than made up for the lows.

 

[Animator]

Finished. The endgame was a little all over the map, but not nearly as messy as Luke Cage's.

D1 > JJ / IF > D2 > IF

It was entertaining and the highs more than made up for the lows.

Yea no. D2 has punisher which was better than IF/JJ combined.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Yea no. D2 has punisher which was better than IF/JJ combined.

And it was brought down by having way, way, WAY too many cooks in the kitchen. D2 had way too much going on.

 

[Qvoth]

Just watched this and can't believe I didn't see anything close to it on Iron Fist.

what is this?

 

[Volimar]

what is this?

Kill Bill

 

[hobozero]

You need to be sure not to watch any middling to decent kung fu movies/TV for at least a week after finishing Iron Fist, and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES watch any decent kung fu shit before finishing IF.

Iron Fist: budget: 20 million
The Raid: budget 1.1 million

("hallway fight scene" my ass...)

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

You need to be sure not to watch any middling to decent kung fu movies/TV for at least a week after finishing Iron Fist, and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES watch any decent kung fu shit before finishing IF.

Iron Fist: budget: 20 million
The Raid: budget 1.1 million

("hallway fight scene" my ass...)

:<

....

.....................................................










time to appreciate the raid again :>

 

[Einchy]

what is this?

How have you not seen Kill Bill vol 1/2? You gotta fix this ASAP.

 

[Jest Chillin]

You need to be sure not to watch any middling to decent kung fu movies/TV for at least a week after finishing Iron Fist, and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES watch any decent kung fu shit before finishing IF.

Iron Fist: budget: 20 million
The Raid: budget 1.1 million

("hallway fight scene" my ass...)

notsureifserious.jpg

No production that isn't Directed by Gareth Evans with fight choreography by Iko and his team looks like that... but you post this as if budget has anything at all to do with it.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Just watched this and can't believe I didn't see anything close to it on Iron Fist.

Marvel struggled with Ed Norton, they couldn't handle QT adding set pieces last minute.

 

[Sevket-Erhat]

You need to be sure not to watch any middling to decent kung fu movies/TV for at least a week after finishing Iron Fist, and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES watch any decent kung fu shit before finishing IF.

Iron Fist: budget: 20 million
The Raid: budget 1.1 million

("hallway fight scene" my ass...)

He does not NOT know how to fight and he is quite irritating. If only they can chsnge the lead

 

[fallengorn]

He does not NOT know how to fight and he is quite irritating. If only they can chsnge the lead

I'd blame the scheduling for that, if anything.

 

[boiled goose]

Having a hard time finishing the show.

It's just a bit of a mess. Characters are not well realized, story is overly distracted by boring plots.

Danny is the worst offender. He is just not convincing as a dude who spent his life training in Martial arts on a mountain.
Enters death tournaments but sometimes worries about killing sometimes doesn't care. Vowed celibacy but doesn't matter. Somehow know adult English vocabulary. His character is just a mess.

The location is also a stepdown. Dd, jj, lc all had well realized locations. Hell's kitchen , Harlem. It's just nothing here.

It's a shame marvel Netflix shows have somehow declined not gotten better over time.

 

[The Kree]

They put The Hand - a criminal organization traditionally made up of ninjas who worship demons - up against Danny Rand - the Immortal Iron Fist, martial artist with mystical powers - and then gave The Hand machine guns.

This show is fucking stupid on every level. I've gone from thinking it's just boring to actively hating it.

 

[Baroquemantic]

First episode was aight. This def didn't grab me like the pilot of the other Marvel Netflix shows, but I liked it. Need to see a few more episodes to really judge, though.

 

[GravityInsanity]

Just finished Iron Fist.

First half:

Second half:

I'm not feeling good about the Defenders.

 

[Realeza]

God, the action in Iron Fist is dreadful. Some fight scenes are straight outta Been Affleck's Daredevil.

 

[LotusHD]

Just finished Iron Fist.

First half:

Second half:

I'm not feeling good about the Defenders.

Different people behind it, and less episodes, so I'm still&#8203; confident.

Spoiler

I need to be, I waited forever for this lol

 

[Choppasmith]

Finally started watching Iron Fist. Just finished the third episode and... I think it's okay so far? Am I a horrible person?

I mean I can see what people are saying about the fight scenes and there's nothing that makes me go "Wow" like the other Netflix shows but I'm enjoying myself watching it. I was reading here in the first impressions thread about the "horrible scene where Danny mansplains his superior skills to Colleen like a racist" Was it referring to the friendly little back and forth between them in EP 3? It just seemed like a little bit of teasing and flirting to me.

 

[Einchy]

I'd blame the scheduling for that, if anything.

Even fights when he was wearing a hoodie and it was clearly a stunt double sucked.

This really didn't have anything to do with Finn Jones, this was all on the show runners.

 

[Falchion]

Just finished it, overall I enjoyed it, but just like the past few Marvel shows, it really drops off in the second half of the series. By the end things had just gotten weird and some of the final sections felt forced. The highlight was definitely Colleen and the Ward / Joy dynamic, that was all good throughout.

 

[KonradLaw]

You need to be sure not to watch any middling to decent kung fu movies/TV for at least a week after finishing Iron Fist, and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES watch any decent kung fu shit before finishing IF.

Iron Fist: budget: 20 million
The Raid: budget 1.1 million

("hallway fight scene" my ass...)

You can't be serious. Iron Fist is ten times longer than Raid. So at most Iron Fist had twice as big budget and in New York that budget can likely give you ten times less resources than in Indonesia.

Plus Raid is done by people who know martial arts. No matter how much effort would Finn Jones put into his workouts and training it takes many years to get even decent grasp on how to do martial arts in movies. You can train actor to throw punches, but it will take years before he can do the same with kicks.

So this comparision is ridiculous.

Plus I doubt even a martial arts actor would be able to pull off amazing scenes in Iron Fist. Finn Jones said the whole action scenes was like they came to him at 2AM, gave him 15 minutes to practice and then filmed the scene and be done with it. Somebody like Scott Adkins would be able to make it look a lot better with those circumstances, but even he wouldn't make it look really good. Which is evident seeing how even scenes when they used a double for Danny don't look all that much better.

One of the most dissapoiting fight scenes of last decade was Expendables 2's Statham vs Adkins. And Adkins on numerous occassions complained how dissapointed he was about this scene. Because you had two actors who really know how to fight on screen and yet you end with mediocre scene just because the producers only gave them single day to shoot it. If those two can't do great work while having whole day for it, then there's just no way a tv show with lead actor like Finn Jones will be able to pull anything good in few hours.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Plus Raid is done by people who know martial arts. No matter how much effort would Finn Jones put into his workouts and training it takes many years to get even decent grasp on how to do martial arts in movies. You can train actor to throw punches, but it will take years before he can do the same with kicks. "

Seems like a problem that could be solved by casting an actor who actually has martial arts expertise.


"Plus I doubt even a martial arts actor would be able to pull off amazing scenes in Iron Fist. Finn Jones said the whole action scenes was like they came to him at 2AM, gave him 15 minutes to practice and then filmed the scene and be done with it. Somebody like Scott Adkins would be able to make it look a lot better with those circumstances, but even he wouldn't make it look really good. Which is evident seeing how even scenes when they used a double for Danny don't look all that much better"

Yes, the production scheduling seems a mess. But even if that weren't the case, they'd still be hamstrung by Finn Jones

 

[KonradLaw]

Seems like a problem that could be solved by casting an actor who actually has martial arts expertise.

Yeah, but they wasted Adkins on stupid Doctor Strange henchmen and there's no other white actor who
a)knows martial arts
b)can still act decently
c)looks pretty young

Yes, the production scheduling seems a mess. But even if that weren't the case, they'd still be hamstrung by Finn Jones

They really should have just given him a mask. This way they could have just made Finn practice one or two scenes when he's without mask, while allowing the stunt man to do everything else. This works pretty well in Daredevil

 

[lightskintwin]

Yeah, but they wasted Adkins on stupid Doctor Strange henchmen and there's no other white actor who
a)knows martial arts
b)can still act decently
c)looks pretty young





They really should have just given him a mask. This way they could have just made Finn practice one or two scenes when he's without mask, while allowing the stunt man to do everything else. This works pretty well in Daredevil

Or they could've easily fixed it by casting Lewis Tan who was already campaigning for the role, thus fixing your martial arts problem and also being progressive by making the character Asian American.

 

[KonradLaw]

Or they could've easily fixed it by casting Lewis Tan who was already campaigning for the role, thus fixing your martial arts problem and also being progressive by making the character Asian American.

Lewis Tan would make terrible Danny Rand. That character would be utterly destroyed by being asian american.
If they wanted to cast asian the work to pull that off should have started a lot earlier, by making new character who took Iron Fist mantle instead of Danny Rand.

 

[LotusHD]

Or they could've easily fixed it by casting Lewis Tan who was already campaigning for the role, thus fixing your martial arts problem and also being progressive by making the character Asian Western actor.

This will just always be funny to me because when we get into discussions concerning casting a minority, there's always that person(s) asking what hypothetical minority actor would be right for the job. And as it turns out, the people behind the casting had one fall right into their lap, and decided not to go for it.

As has been already stated, the show as it is now wouldn't have become magically amazing, but at least we would had a better Iron Fist by the look of things.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Seems like a problem that could be solved by casting an actor who actually has martial arts expertise.

An actor who has martial arts experience could sell the fights a bit better but without an entire team of experienced stunt fighters, you're not going to get close to The Raid. And since that poster specifically mentioned The Raid as a bar of measurement, it's necessary to point out that The Raid's fights outdo pretty much every other martial arts film out there. It's like comparing the film Knockaround Guys to The Godfather because they're both dramatic mob movies. It's an unreasonable expectation.

Yes, the production scheduling seems a mess. But even if that weren't the case, they'd still be hamstrung by Finn Jones

This is really hard to say for certain. Daredevil wasn't hamstrung and there are plenty of scenes where Charlie Cox is the one actually performing the fights or portions of the fights. Likewise Keanu Reeves, while stiff, did a pretty good job in The Matrix.

The Fight Choreographer and Fight Stunt team make a huge difference in the final product. It's the primary reason why martial arts film stars with intricate fight scenes have their own internal Fight Teams.

 

[KonradLaw]

This is really hard to say for certain. Daredevil wasn't hamstrung and there are plenty of scenes where Charlie Cox is the one actually performing the fights or portions of the fights. Likewise Keanu Reeves, while stiff, did a pretty good job in The Matrix.

The Fight Choreographer and Fight Stunt team make a huge difference in the final product. It's the primary reason why martial arts film stars with intricate fight scenes have their own internal Fight Teams.

I really think it was simply showrunner not caring enough to give the team enough resources.
Because it's obvious the team cared. Iron Fist's fights are far more varied and inventive than anything other Netflix show has done. The team obviously had put as lot of thought and imagination into planning them. So it's hard to believe they would then drop the ball on actual delivery if they weren't forced to by circumstances.

 

[milkham]

Lewis Tan would make terrible Danny Rand. That character would be utterly destroyed by being asian american.
If they wanted to cast asian the work to pull that off should have started a lot earlier, by making new character who took Iron Fist mantle instead of Danny Rand.

well its not like they really cared about iron fist lore in any other aspect of the show.

 

[LotusHD]

I really think it was simply showrunner not caring enough to give the team enough resources.
Because it's obvious the team cared. Iron Fist's fights are far more varied and inventive than anything other Netflix show has done. The team obviously had put as lot of thought and imagination into planning them. So it's hard to believe they would then drop the ball on actual delivery if they weren't forced to by circumstances.

Err, unlike IF, I still remember a lot of the cool stuff Daredevil gave us.

 

[KonradLaw]

well its not like they really cared about iron fist lore in any other aspect of the show.

I think Finn made excellent Danny to be honest. But yeah, I was dissapointed how much they hold back. They never showed Kunlun, they never showed the dragon. The character didn't fight like superpowered being and used the Iron Fist powers way to rarily.
Maybe part of that was intent to keep it in line with other Netfflix shows, but that was a mistake. In the dour serious world of fictional superpowered NY Iron Fist should be the lighest, funniest and most fantastical show. Instead Luke Cage feel lighter in it's second part than fricking Iron Fist did and Daredevil S2's second part had more fantastic elements than Iron Fist.

Still, I enjoyed the show and think it has tons of potential if they make second season, as long as they would do it under different showrunner, which seems likely seeing that Scott Buck will be busy with Inhumans.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I really think it was simply showrunner not caring enough to give the team enough resources.
Because it's obvious the team cared. Iron Fist's fights are far more varied and inventive than anything other Netflix show has done. The team obviously had put as lot of thought and imagination into planning them. So it's hard to believe they would then drop the ball on actual delivery if they weren't forced to by circumstances.

I mean, the Showrunner definitely has an impact if he or she fails to give proper preparation time, however a bad fight choreographer or a team of rotating stunt fighters who never have time to work into a groove with each other can be just as bad.

I would point out AoS S1 fights as an example of bad/rotating fight choreographers negatively impacting fights. Compare it to Arrow S1 fights and you can see the difference plainly. Both shows have Showrunners that are competent and care, similar prep times, and relatively similar budgets (at least far more similar considering show vs. show rather than film vs. show).

Director's also make a huge difference in how things play out. Lots of puzzle pieces at play. But I specifically point out Fight Teams and Choreographers in the previous posts due to the comparison to The Raid which has a dedicated fight team of professionals, a lead who is a World Champion Silat practitioner, and who had already worked on a previous martial arts film together. The expectation of Iron Fist to meet that level of execution is just completely unrealistic for those reasons alone, before you even factor in all the other aspects like Showrunner, Director, etc..

 

[KonradLaw]

Err, unlike IF, I still remember a lot of the cool stuff Daredevil gave us.

I'm not talking about the quality. Just that Iron Fist were more varied and inventive. And they were. Daredevil fight scenes are all very similiar to eachother when it comes to scenarios, styles of fighting, tools used and location that were the battlegrounds. DD practically had two modes - either against one uber powerful enemy or a gang of weaklings, then punch untill submission.
Iron Fist had more brawls, cage matches, many different weapons used, numerous enemies and heroes with very different fighting styles, numerous cases where location had big impacts on how fight progressed etc. And a lot of that was obvious homages to classic martial arts movies. Which makes me doubt that people who put this much thought into thinking all of this up would later screw up so badly doing the actual filming.

 

[Christian]

My wife and I went through this while we're both off work with a newborn. I actually really enjoyed it, and thought the 13-episode length wasn't much of a burden, this time. It's messy, for sure, but it's not terrible by any means, and it has some pretty great characters and portrayals. Very excited for The Defenders, but I already was. Doesn't make me any more or less so.

 

[caliph95]

I'm not talking about the quality. Just that Iron Fist were more varied and inventive. And they were. Daredevil fight scenes are all very similiar to eachother when it comes to scenarios, styles of fighting, tools used and location that were the battlegrounds. DD practically had two modes - either against one uber powerful enemy or a gang of weaklings, then punch untill submission.
Iron Fist had more brawls, cage matches, many different weapons used, numerous enemies and heroes with very different fighting styles, numerous cases where location had big impacts on how fight progressed etc. And a lot of that was obvious homages to classic martial arts movies. Which makes me doubt that people who put this much thought into thinking all of this up would later screw up so badly doing the actual filming.

I think it was combination of marvel rushing it and poor direction that fucked it up.