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[Dead Man]

When did he ever say the artists shouldn't be able to draw the prophet?

You don't see the difference between someone standing there with a gun and a death threat?

Wow. If a death threat is likely to be carried out, how is it different to having a gun pointed at you? Would you really persist in an action if a group of people that have killed before threatened to kill you if you continued? I don't think you would, and that would be fair enough.

No, it doesn't. Go ahead and draw him and offend people. That's fine. But organizing an entire day to offend a group of people, based off of a few extremists, is absurd, ridiculous, and childish.

Do you have any respond to my one specific statement and all encompassing feelings on this subject? If not, please stop responding to me.

Okay, which one specific statement? If it is the bolded, then I would say, So what? If it is childish, ridiculous, and absurd, why is it worth getting so upset about?

 

[Alucrid]

I wonder what the correlation is between Muslim posters and people who are against this.

 

[womfalcs3]

Because they can. Some people find religions so ridiculous that they like to make fun of them.

Just because a person can, that doesn't mean they should.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Okay, which one specific statement? If it is the bolded, then I would say, So what? If it is childish, ridiculous, and absurd, why is it worth getting so upset about?

I'm not upset. I'm not going to protest in the streets about this day. I just think it's nonsense to do this and I'll voice my dissent. And I want people to read and understand my point of view. If people want to go on and act childish, I have a box of crayons they can borrow.

That's about it. No death threats or anything :lol

 

[Maleficence]

Why is it that muslims go ballistic at anything that might even be remotely be considered disrespectful toward mohammed, but are perfectly fine when atheists say things like

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."-Richard Dawkins

Apparently God isn't as sacred as some random "prophet"

You think muslims read what Dawkins write? :lol Even so when they do they're hardly big fans.

 

[Monocle]

Threatening death to people who depict Mohammad is a disgusting and indefensible practice, and does nothing good for Islam. Until the threats cease and the world media stops their fearful cringing, I think Mohammad art is a valid means of protest against those who would stamp out free speech, and that organizing a day to create those depictions is a harmless way to turn up the volume.

That said, it's probably not necessary for people to go overboard. A drawing of the Prophet shopping at the grocery store makes the right statement better than a rooster in a turban sitting on a nest full of bombs. The right statement being, "You will not silence our freedom of expression with medieval barbarism," not "Your holy man is a psychotic beast. Fuck you all." Mean-spiritedness won't help anyone.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

ITT: Posters ignore culture and history when commenting on something heavily influenced by culture and history

ITT: Sir Maleficence the Knight.

You mentioned we should promote free speech. The very existence of countries with free speech promotes free speech and a cartoonist still cannot draw a cartoon without associates living in hiding.

For 13 years South Park has done things to offend Christians, Catholics, Jews, gingers, Homosexuals, etc. etc. etc. I have not seen you in one thread bitching about the innocent feelings.

You're promoting a sheltered world.

 

[Maleficence]

I'm not upset. I'm not going to protest in the streets about this day. I just think it's nonsense to do this and I'll voice my dissent. And I want people to read and understand my point of view. If people want to go on and act childish, I have a box of crayons they can borrow.

That's about it. No death threats or anything :lol

I'm exactly the same, I love how people have decided we want to ban this or something. I don't think there's been a single post saying this should be banned or illegal. We just think it's stupid and childish.

 

[Kinitari]

I'm saying that what Hitler did is fucked up. And what these death threat Muslim extremists are doing is fucked up, too. But you don't have to offend the entire Muslim community in an organized manner just because of the extremists. Just like Jews shouldn't organize a day to offend all the Germans because of what Hitler did.

Anyway, the Holocaust is a pretty extreme and crazy example. I apologize for that. I'm just saying we shouldn't go out of our way to offend an entire community based on what a few idiots are doing.

It's not even kind of the same thing - Germans in no way are superimposing their ideology on the rest of society, we don't dance around them stepping on egg shells trying not to offend, at least no group of Germans that I know about.

No, right now this is sorely needed because we are much too cautious about offending Muslims, and many Muslims feel that it should be this way, that because their beliefs are sacred to them, it should be respected by everyone else - some take that to the ultimate extreme of death threats. They need to be humbled.

But I mean, if some Jews wanted to have a Reverse holocaust day - in many countries they would be allowed to, but that day would be an act of frivolity.

 

[Maleficence]

ITT: Sir Maleficence the Knight.

You mentioned we should promote free speech. The very existence of countries with free speech promotes free speech.

For 13 years South Park has done things to offend Christians, Catholics, Jews, gingers, Homosexuals, etc. etc. etc. I have not seen you in one thread bitching about the innocent feelings.

You're promoting a sheltered world.

What? When did I say anything about South Park? :lol

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I was hoping this'd be a

"Open Ms Paint, Close your Eyes, Draw Muhammed."

thread.

 

[Alucrid]

It's not even kind of the same thing - Germans in no way are superimposing their ideology on the rest of society, we don't dance around them stepping on egg shells trying not to offend, at least no group of Germans that I know about.

No, right now this is sorely needed because we are much too cautious about offending Muslims, and many Muslims feel that it should be this way, that because their beliefs are sacred to them, it should be respected by everyone else - some take that to the ultimate extreme of death threats. They need to be humbled.

But I mean, if some Jews wanted to have a Reverse holocaust day - in many countries they would be allowed to, but that day would be an act of frivolity.

A day where Jews get to kill as many Nazis as possible? :lol

 

[Monocle]

I was hoping this'd be a

"Open Ms Paint, Close your Eyes, Draw Muhammed."

thread.

Yeah, I expected this to be a Draw Mohammad thread. :lol Should've known better.

 

[msv]

No, I agree, they have the right to do it. But it's still immature to do so.

Allright, then let the people be. You're coming in here, knowing you will be offended, and then complain about it. You have got to remember, the rule you impose on yourself does not imply on us. We can draw whatever the fuck we want. You are the one that can't draw him. Can't even look at him I suppose? So why do you venture in here and break your rule? Just because you want other people outside your religion to uphold your rules???

It's also absurd, educating people is what is needed, not offending people.

You couldn't be more wrong. There's no educating people you can't reach. The only common factor we know the people who send death threats are that they get pissed off by depicting Muhammed. Besides, these people are educated already, there's an education system in place, you know? If they don't know about free speech by now they're a lost cause anyway.

 

[Maleficence]

Allright, then let the people be. You're coming in here, knowing you will be offended, and then complain about it.

Now you're just making shit up, when did he say he'd be offended? He's saying it's stupid that's all, stop making shit up.

You couldn't be more wrong. There's no educating people you can't reach. The only common factor we know the people who send death threats are that they get pissed off by depicting Muhammed. Besides, these people are educated already, there's an education system in place, you know? If they don't know about free speech by now they're a lost cause anyway.

So because you can't educate people you decide to feign in ignorance and act like the only way to get through to these people is by offending them and many more people than them?

Tell me how this day is going to help anyone? I'd love to hear it.

 

[damisa]

You think muslims read what Dawkins write? :lol Even so when they do they're hardly big fans.

Well apparently they read obscure danish newspapers.

 

[Wazzim]

This is the reason why people get upset, they just get mocked on

Would I get dead threads if I organise a day of drawing a burned Jezus Christ? Yes. This is the same situation so just don't do it if you don't like getting dead threads. lol

 

[Bboy AJ]

No, right now this is sorely needed because we are much too cautious about offending Muslims, and many Muslims feel that it should be this way, that because their beliefs are sacred to them, it should be respected by everyone else - some take that to the ultimate extreme of death threats. They need to be humbled.

There are just a few Muslims doing what you're saying. There are no Muslims out there who are going to kill cartoon drawers that already haven't decided to.

Allright, then let the people be. You're coming in here, knowing you will be offended, and then complain about it. You have got to remember, the rule you impose on yourself does not imply on us. We can draw whatever the fuck we want. You are the one that can't draw him. Can't even look at him I suppose? So why do you venture in here and break your rule? Just because you want other people outside your religion to uphold your rules???

This is what I wrote before your edit: Just because I disagree with an organized day of offending doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to voice my disagreement. And anyway, I never said I am personally offended.

This is what I'm writing after your edit (the underlined part): You're an idiot :lol

 

[C.Dark.DN]

What? When did I say anything about South Park? :lol

I'm bringing up South Park...

There's a thread on the first page daily. Every episode either offends some religious group, minority, sexual orientation, etc.

There are boy molesting Catholics and innocent Catholics who get all get offended at the same time.

Of course "innocent" people can get offended. That argument against doing it holds no weight.

The existence of South Park existing tells that argument to shut the fuck up.

 

[Jex]

In this thread, people conflate the right to free speech with it's always a good thing to express that right.

Just because you have it, and want to make a point, doesn't mean you have to go all the way to other side and be a dick.

 

[Bboy AJ]

I'm bringing up South Park...

There's a thread on the first page daily. Every episode either offends some religious group, minority, sexual orientation, etc.

There are boy molesting Catholics and innocent Catholics who get all get offended at the same time.

Of course "innocent" people can get offended. That argument against doing it holds no weight.

The existence of South Park existing tells the argument to shut the fuck up.

Did he miss the May 19th "Dress up like a catholic priest and molest an altar boy" day?

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

Wasn't there a poll somewhere that said that Muslims, for the most part, didn't care about his likeness being drawn?

On the other hand, it is part of their belief system not to have any images of him. So I dunno.

 

[Monocle]

In this thread, people conflate the right to free speech with it's always a good thing to express that right.

Just because you have it, and want to make a point, doesn't mean you have to go all the way to other side and be a dick.

The problem is a group of people says we can't or they'll kill us. Sometimes they really do kill others for writing, saying, or drawing things they don't like. That's not acceptable. Free speech is useful here because it allows us to oppose that wicked nonsense without resorting to violence ourselves.

 

[Steppenwolf]

Did he miss the May 19th "Dress up like a catholic priest and molest an altar boy" day?

Your comparisons are seriously fucked. First you compare making some drawings with the holocaust, now you compare them with the actual act of child molesting.

 

[Dead Man]

The problem is a group of people says we can't or they'll kill us. That's not acceptable.

Yep. Sums it up. It's fine to say 'You shouldn't', or 'please don't, I find that offensive', but Don't or I'll kill you' is not acceptable.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Your comparisons are seriously fucked. First you compare making some drawings with the holocaust, now you compare them with the actual act of child molesting.

OMG YOU'RE OFFENDED!! May 21: Find out what offends Steppenwolf and draw these things on his face with a sharpie, take pictures, post on his facebook.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

In this thread, people conflate the right to free speech with it's always a good thing to express that right.

Just because you have it, and want to make a point, doesn't mean you have to go all the way to other side and be a dick.

In this thread, people put the act of drawing Muhammad on a silver platter while rape, murder, Buddah doing blow, Catholic priests wanting to keep the ability to molest boys, and other things that can offend people are currently airing on TV.

 

[Kinitari]

OMG YOU'RE OFFENDED!! May 21: Find out what offends Steppenwolf and draw these things on his face with a sharpie, take pictures, post on his facebook.

So people are drawing things on peoples faces now?

And yeah - Muslims are allowed to be offended, in fact that is expected. They just need to deal with it. This day is really just giving them thicker skin, it's doing them a favour.

 

[AFreak]

OMG YOU'RE OFFENDED!! May 21: Find out what offends Steppenwolf and draw these things on his face with a sharpie, take pictures, post on his facebook.

that would be a fun day.

But his point is that drawing muhammad is different than dressing up like a priest and molesting a child.

With that said, there could be a "Draw a catholic priest have shota/yaoi sex" day that would be sure to offend, but also be acceptable giving that no one is coming under harm's way.

 

[SimpleDesign]

OMG YOU'RE OFFENDED!! May 21: Find out what offends Steppenwolf and draw these things on his face with a sharpie, take pictures, post on his facebook.

May 21 is already draw the prophet Muhammad with his 9 year old wife Aisha day.

Remember to keep it G rated guys, we don't want any consummation night fan fiction.

 

[Steppenwolf]

OMG YOU'RE OFFENDED!! May 21: Find out what offends Steppenwolf and draw these things on his face with a sharpie, take pictures, post on his facebook.

This is so funny and sad at the same time. You are incapable to understand the difference between a harmless drawing and actual vile crimes.

I'm not offended at all i'm just pointing out how ridiculous your argument is.

 

[Dabookerman]

Until I see an image for funny than Jesus fucking the holes in his hand in the most crude CG imaginable, I can't imagine it being bad.

 

[msv]

There are just a few Muslims doing what you're saying. There are no Muslims out there who are going to kill cartoon drawers that already haven't decided to.

So? Your point makes little sense. This reaction towards the numerous threats over the years has been caused by people with that sentiment. People shouldn't be afraid to express something that might offend some people. I think that's the main reason people are backing up this effort.

This is what I wrote before your edit: Just because I disagree with an organized day of offending doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to voice my disagreement. And anyway, I never said I am personally offended.

I didn't say you couldn't. I was merely implying that you're muddying up this thread. If you're so upset by these drawings, make your own thread about it.

This is what I'm writing after your edit (the underlined part): You're an idiot :lol

Great argument. Also, you're a hypocrite.

 

[Dabookerman]

I can't wait for June 20th when I'll hang a black mannequin from a tree. Or July 20th when I'll carve a swastika into a gas chamber where I'll place a Jewish doll eating a ham sandwich. Hey, if they're offended by that, freedom of speech!

This is so stupid. Childish and immature. You don't have to go out of your way to offend people. Death threats are also ridiculous and immature but this attitude is in no way helping.

IT'S THE SAME THING MAN!!

 

[Jex]

The problem is a group of people says we can't or they'll kill us. Sometimes they really do kill others for writing, saying, or drawing things they don't like. That's not acceptable. Free speech is useful here because it allows us to oppose that wicked nonsense without resorting to violence ourselves.

So what? So people in the west have to prove that they are culturally insensitive?

Just people people protest against it, doesn't mean you've lost you're right to free speech.

If a station/newspaper chooses not to depict an image, that's up to them completely, how silly it may seem. You still have the right to free speech, but you don't have a right to get your speech broadcast around the country.

In this thread, people put the act of drawing Muhammad on a silver platter while rape, murder, Buddah doing blow, Catholic priests wanting to keep the ability to molest boys, and other things that can offend people are currently airing on TV.

So there's hypocrisy in the system. Not really surprising.

None of those groups are as up-in-arms as Muslim groups, so the station's don't respond in the same way. And this is news, because?

Has anyone's rights been taken away? No.

 

[Monocle]

In this thread, people put the act of drawing Muhammad on a silver platter while rape, murder, Buddah doing blow, Catholic priests wanting to keep the ability to molest boys, and other things that can offend people are currently on TV.

I have to say, as a nonreligious person who values world culture, I'm pretty fucking offended by the destruction of the Bamyan Buddhas. Kind of takes the piss out of the "oh noes u maed a mohammad so we gotta slit ur throte lol" club, I sometimes think. Not that I condone religious insensitivity or anything.

 

[Bboy AJ]

that would be a fun day.

But his point is that drawing muhammad is different than dressing up like a priest and molesting a child.

With that said, there could be a "Draw a catholic priest have shota/yaoi sex" day that would be sure to offend, but also be acceptable giving that no one is coming under harm's way.

Fair enough to make that inference; you're right. My main point is that what offends some people might not offend others. You can't say "X is offensive, Y isn't offensive, and that A group that thinks otherwise is wrong." You can't dictate what is offensive and who it is offensive to. If you want to organize a day to offend, you're inviting the same to yourself. And that is perfectly fine. It's still childish, though.

This is so funny and sad at the same time. You are incapable to understand the difference between a harmless drawing and actual vile crimes.

I'm not offended at all i'm just pointing out how ridiculous your argument is.

You took what I said way too literally. That's my fault. I should be more careful in parsing my words. You're right. AFreak's drawing of priests raping altar boys is a much better comparison.

May 21 is already draw the prophet Muhammad with his 9 year old wife Aisha day.

Remember to keep it G rated guys, we don't want any consummation night fan fiction.

Are you trying to direct things you think a Muslim would be offended by to me? :lol Man, you're sad. I'm not offended and I never will be.

 

[DeSo]

fucking religion

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

No Muslim is being forced to view any of these images. I hold no respect for a religion that openly advocates violent retaliation against a simple pictoral representation of their idol, regardless of whether or not everyone in said religion actually does violently retaliate. It is a part of their doctrine to be suppressive to anyone who disbelieves or otherwise blasphemies Muhammad. Fuck them. I don't give a shit if you whittle away your time believing in Islam, but when your beliefs interfere with the fundamental principals of our nation - which they certainly have, via violence and intimidation - then my sympathy has run out.

That being said, I don't think this will change anything. Not that it's a bad idea, but if anyone is expecting Muslims to go "Oh, I see I've been wrong about my lifelong beliefs now!! Thank you America!!", you will be disappointed.

 

[Shanadeus]

Fucking bullshit, I don't want to be surrounded by muhammed drawing idiots on my birthday.
Fuck people that make up these days willy-nilly.
Fuck them all >:/

 

[Sibylus]

This is ridiculous. What happened to mutual respect and common decency.

The lunatics waving the AK-47s and machetes thought it wasn't for them.

 

[Dead Man]

So what? So people in the west have to prove that they are culturally insensitive?

Just people people protest against it, doesn't mean you've lost you're right to free speech.

If a station/newspaper chooses not to depict an image, that's up to them completely, how silly it may seem. You still have the right to free speech, but you don't have a right to get your speech broadcast around the country.



So there's hypocrisy in the system. Not really surprising.

None of those groups are as up-in-arms as Muslim groups, so the station's don't respond in the same way. And this is news, because?

Has anyone's rights been taken away? No.

So, death threats are a legitimate way to protest now? Awesome. And they still allow all the blame to fall on the person threatened? Even better! Yay for threatening people, apparently it is more acceptable than drawings.

 

[msv]

Fucking bullshit, I don't want to be surrounded by muhammed drawing idiots on my birthday.
Fuck people that make up these days willy-nilly.
Fuck them all >:/

:lol Happy birthday!

 

[Jex]

I'm also seeing lots of people conflating extremists with a whole religion. Equally stupid.

That's like someone else saying that because Christian fundamentalists are violently opposed to abortion, all Christians are terrorists.

So, death threats are a legitimate way to protest now? Awesome. And they still allow all the blame to fall on the person threatened? Even better! Yay for threatening people, apparently it is more acceptable than drawings.

When did I say their form of protest was legitimate?

Legitimate is a pretty serious word, I'm sure I would have known if I had used it.

 

[Guileless]

No, it doesn't. Go ahead and draw him and offend people. That's fine. But organizing an entire day to offend a group of people, based off of a few extremists, is absurd, ridiculous, and childish.

Do you have any respond to my one specific statement and all encompassing feelings on this subject? If not, please stop responding to me.

The day isn't meant to offend people; it's meant to assert a fundamental right that is central to our culture. Any offense you take is a by-product. If some speech is off-limits, an authority will have to police speech and punish offenders and that is antithetical to our core beliefs.

Expressing the right to free expression against threats of violence that actually work to silence the country's premier satirists is not absurd or ridiculous. I'm open minded, but I can't think of a more effective way of doing it.

 

[SimpleDesign]

Are you trying to direct things you think a Muslim would be offended by to me? :lol Man, you're sad. I'm not offended and I never will be.

You're just offended that people are going out of their way to offend people who are easily offended.

I'm offended by you jumping to conclusions without getting to know me as a person, don't lump me together with people who are sad. Try to be more sensitive to my feelings in the future.

 

[G.O.O.]

It shouldn't be, I wouldn't be offended at all. But people who hold views distorted by history may be, I just don't see why people think it's so necessary to do it. What most muslims know is that drawing the prophet is bad, they don't really know the reason behind it, and therefore find even the simplest of depictions as offensive. This is of course absurd, but that doesn't mean that going out of your way to offend, even when those beliefs are distorted, is a good thing to do. It's also absurd, educating people is what is needed, not offending people.

Thing is, we consider there is a problem when you can't do something as simple as showing someone. As I said above, some politics consider offensive some guys wiping themselves with a flag. When it's about showing something that is not directly insulting someone, there is a danger towards freedom of speech.

I understand we should make efforts, like not calling all muslim bombers and such. But when efforts come always from the same side, I have to disagree. That's the kind of thing people just have to deal with. Muhammad, the flag thing, the Amen poster with the christian swastika, the RE5 plagas being black and some other stuff i miss.

 

[Dead Man]

I'm also seeing lots of people conflating extremists with a whole religion. Equally stupid.

That's like someone else saying that because Christian fundamentalists are violently opposed to abortion, all Christians are terrorists.




When did I say their form of protest was legitimate?

Legitimate is a pretty serious word, I'm sure I would have known if I had used it.

The simple fact that you are more worried about some drawings legitimises the threats. You have not said at all that they were unacceptable. Shall I repost what you said?

None of those groups are as up-in-arms as Muslim groups, so the station's don't respond in the same way. And this is news, because?

So, do you think all groups should be as up in arms as the groups making threats?

 

[Jex]

The day isn't meant to offend people; it's meant to assert a fundamental right that is central to our culture. Any offence you take is a by-product. If some speech is off-limits, an authority will have to police speech and punish offenders and that is antithetical to our core beliefs.

Expressing the right to free expression against threats of violence that actually work to silence the country's premier satirists is not absurd or ridiculous. I'm open minded, but I can't think of a more effective way of doing it.

However, the day is based around a practice that many people do find offensive and everyone knows that.

Isn't there a more grown-up way of talking this problem?

So, do you think all groups should be as up in arms as the groups making threats?

I think they have proved that their tactics work, so why not?

 

[Kinitari]

I'm also seeing lots of people conflating extremists with a whole religion. Equally stupid.

That's like someone else saying that because Christian fundamentalists are violently opposed to abortion, all Christians are terrorists.

I'm sorry, where is anyone saying this?

When did I say their form of protest was legitimate?

Legitimate is a pretty serious word, I'm sure I would have known if I had used it.

Legitimate protest or not, what a silly thing to protest - by all means, protest someone saying/drawing things that hurt your feelings.