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NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT

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S

Sanjuro

Member
friskykillface said:
Lack of Celtics pride being played on tv is a crime, I loved that movie

EVERYONE CHANGE SEATS
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YE2ofbE.jpg


#alllivesmatter
 
B

Bread

Banned
That's what I'm fuckin talking about Jae

Crazy how much hitting their open shots opens up the rest of the game. They're getting cutting/passing lanes now.
 
J

jdstorm

Banned
Slizeezyc said:
1. You mean who are the Wolves getting? It doesn't matter if no max player ends up going to Minnesota either way. Your trade is shitty, it remains shitty. The point is they'd rather get someone like a Paul Millsap than a Jonas in terms of fit and style. They could trade for Jonas and still pursue a Millsap by the way, so they can do both if they want without involving Pek etc. The point is Minnesota has flexibility for this offseason and next before things tighten up or they have to decide to move different directions with core pieces.

2. Jonas beating a rookie in terms of rim protection would be the accepted norm. Last year, Jonas averaged 1.8 BPG (per 36) and had a BLK% of 4.2. Towns had a block percentage of 4.3 and and averaged 1.9 BPG. I could go and look up their contested numbers at NBA.com to maybe see where you think Jonas was the better rim protector, but since you're not even going far enough to say which "stats" prove your point, I'm making more effort than you as is here. And nothing changes the fact that Jonas is in no way a rim protector. At least, you're now accepting that Jonas is only useful in some situations, but how about the Wolves get to the Playoffs first before trying to fit bad-fitting pieces into their core. There's zero argument you made, beyond other West teams have some bigs, that shows how Jonas and Towns make any sense together. The Wolves have struggled with spacing this entire era, how does Jonas help that? How does Jonas help their pick and roll defense? You're not making logical sense.

3. No, you saying "well the Kings did this so my trade seems logical" is stupid. Buddy Hield was drafted after Dunn, and by all accounts Vivek wanted to have his children. Boogie was awaiting a massive payday. Nothing about those two elements shows how a Kris Dunn/Jonas swap with extra pieces involved is the same thing. There's nuance to trades and what people want. A Boogie situation was wholly unique. And the Kings are wholly unique with their fuckery. (PS, if Jonas was such a solid rim protector why did the Raptors go get Ibaka for a mid-20s pick and Ross?) Jonas is not Ibaka btw, or Boogie. He doesn't have the same value as he sucks much worse than them. Boogie has the Jonas weaknesses, but he's considered a million times the offensive player Jonas is.

4. No crap, the Kings aren't going far. Doesn't mean you just pretend their whole "locker room" focus thing is meaningless. They seem to want Temple around the young guys. I'm actually following what teams are saying publicly to inform what I say here, rather than just make up awful trades and prove how this gets the Raptors to contention as long as "luck" is on their side.

4a. Cool man, so maybe don't assume Gay's on the team then? You wrote it like it's a foregone conclusion, I was showing it's not.
4b. Stop making assumptions about player's contracts mannnnnn. You don't know what the Kings or McLemore will do. Temple/Hield/Malachi are the only guarantees for next season on the wing. Afflalo, Gay, Evans, Galloway, McLemore all have various forms of options or are free agents in some form. They have Skal as the only PF guarantee (though I imagine they will pick up Tolliver's option). I don't have any idea what the Kings will do because they're the Kings, but the roster as it is doesn't show a crunch yet. There's a draft, and FA and so on and once that's happened then they'll know where the crunch does and does not exist.
4c. They already use Temple as a backup PG some of the time. Out of all your insane trades, the Joseph on Sacramento does make some semblance of sense, but how you got there is still a mess, as I said. You're not getting swap rights and a player they like in Temple for Joseph when the salaries are the same and Temple has a potential extra year of salary. I'm well aware Collison/Lawson are free agents. There's also, again, a draft to see about since there's 19,000 PGs in it. Also, reminder, yes the Kings have two picks this year (assuming NO doesn't jump into top 3), but still owe a 2019 unprotected first to the Sixers. I don't think they want to be giving up swap rights when 2018 will be their only season to tank (if they choose to go that route).

5. I haven't hyped up Minnesota or Sacramento as destinations for free agents, but I did point out that teams rarely decide against having more cap space until they don't need it. Honestly, more what I've done is just try to explain why none of your moves make any sense. Also, spoiler: not every team has cap space next year -- not even close. This year was a one-time deal, the cap is already projected to come in much lower for the 2017/18 season, and on top of that, it won't be increasing as much year over year based on current projections.

You're out of your element man, just give in here. It's not worth dying on this hill.
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Your main problem is that you are assuming competance within NBA front offices. Most suck. Saying that NBA teams SHOULD do something is likely always going to be different then what they actually do.

However since my last post was "low effort" here is the the dot point version.
1. Like you said, Minny need both a Millsap type and a big C type. So why prioritize one over the other? Getting Jonas fills a need, and you still have cap space.
1a.Flexibility is only useful if you do something with it. Please propose a better use of that flexibility rather then just saying "Your idea is shit because the front office of an NBA team that hasn't made the playoffs in over a decade wouldn't do it"
1b. Minny have to include Pek because Toronto wants Pek in this scenario. His expiring contract has value as a trade chip for teams over the cap. Minny is also perfectly content to deal him because as a team who will miss out on every free agent worth getting, they will retain that cap flexibility well into the season.
1c. When a team last made the playoffs in 2003/04 with current Chicago Bulls coach Fred Hoiberg playing 22mpg, maybe "what their front office would do" isn't a good measure of potential success.

2. Towns wasn't a rookie this past season. He was a 2nd year player
2a.great you looked up blk% good for you. Try looking up a useful defensive stat like opponant shooting%
2b. I have always only considered Jonas a situational player. Im not moving any goal posts on his production.
2c. The Wolves problems with spacing stem from the fact that Rubio cant shoot. Kat shot .367 from 3 last season on >3 attempts per game. Wiggins and Lavine are also excelent 3pt shooters. Trading Dunn or their first (but realistically Dunn) to free up space to start the rookie and move Rubio into being a combo guard off the bench makes a lot of sense.
2d. This is something even Minnesota see's if we are using your metric of "what teams would do" as they tried to trade Rubio last deadline and there were no takers.

3. Trades that involve 1 solid player for a rookie scale player and a large expiring contract are standard in the NBA. You may not agree with the value Sacramento got for Boogie, but the trade type is standard. See Oladipo+Ilyasova+pick for Serge Ibaka just last season.
3b. Toronto are a playoff team hoping to be championship contenders and their Backup C options were Jacob Poeltl, Pascal Siakim and Lucas Nogueira. Does that explain the Serge Ibaka trade sufficiently enough for your liking? Aditionally Ibaka can shoot 3s and defensive bigs that shoot 3s as well as Ibaka are basically impossible to get.

4.the kings had a pretty successful draft last season. They added Buddy (SG) Papagianis (C) Richardson (SG/SF) and Skal (PF/C) aditionally they have Kosta Koufos (C) and WCS (PF/C) as useful players who need minutes. Add 2 draft picks from this season and thats 8 of your 10 player rotation set. Really 9 since someone will need to play backup PG. All that is before Gay, Evans, McClemmore, Temple, Afflalo ect are even included. Since assumedly at minimum 2 of those players will be kings next season.
4a. I might not know what the kings would do, but i can take an educated guess that they will try and retain as much high character talent on their roster as possible.

5.You litterally said that teams like Minnesota and Sacramento would prefer to maintain cap flexibility, without explaining how it benefits them to do so. If you are going to be condescending at least show a valid path about why you are correct, not just offer platitudes that align themselves with conventional wisdom because.
5a. Like you have said Minny have a small window before they have to pay Wiggins, Lavine, Kat ect. So their Cap flexibility is on a deadline with a ticking clock. They cant maintain it forever. So maybe propose them doing something useful with it that isn't a pie in the sky scenario like Paul Millsap
5b 16 NBA teams will have >29M in potential maximum cap room this summer. Teams like GSW will obviously use it to resign their own players, but that still subtracts from the free agent pool, so they count.
5b.That number goes up to 21 teams if you use 20M in maximum potential cap space as the minimum qualifier.
5c. Over 2/3rds of NBA teams having access to a potential 20m+ free agency war chest is more then within a reasonable definition of most teams having cap space this summer.

So maybe don't be condescending and call other posters "out of their depth" without good reason. Unless you are an NBA GM none of this is more then people talking crap anyway.
 
S

Slizeezyc

Member
jdstorm said:
Your main problem is that you are assuming competance within NBA front offices. Most suck. Saying that NBA teams SHOULD do something is likely always going to be different then what they actually do.

However since my last post was "low effort" here is the the dot point version.
1. Like you said, Minny need both a Millsap type and a big C type. So why prioritize one over the other? Getting Jonas fills a need, and you still have cap space.
1a.Flexibility is only useful if you do something with it. Please propose a better use of that flexibility rather then just saying "Your idea is shit because the front office of an NBA team that hasn't made the playoffs in over a decade wouldn't do it"
1b. Minny have to include Pek because Toronto wants Pek in this scenario. His expiring contract has value as a trade chip for teams over the cap. Minny is also perfectly content to deal him because as a team who will miss out on every free agent worth getting, they will retain that cap flexibility well into the season.
1c. When a team last made the playoffs in 2003/04 with current Chicago Bulls coach Fred Hoiberg playing 22mpg, maybe "what their front office would do" isn't a good measure of potential success.

2. Towns wasn't a rookie this past season. He was a 2nd year player
2a.great you looked up blk% good for you. Try looking up a useful defensive stat like opponant shooting%
2b. I have always only considered Jonas a situational player. Im not moving any goal posts on his production.
2c. The Wolves problems with spacing stem from the fact that Rubio cant shoot. Kat shot .367 from 3 last season on >3 attempts per game. Wiggins and Lavine are also excelent 3pt shooters. Trading Dunn or their first (but realistically Dunn) to free up space to start the rookie and move Rubio into being a combo guard off the bench makes a lot of sense.
2d. This is something even Minnesota see's if we are using your metric of "what teams would do" as they tried to trade Rubio last deadline and there were no takers.

3. Trades that involve 1 solid player for a rookie scale player and a large expiring contract are standard in the NBA. You may not agree with the value Sacramento got for Boogie, but the trade type is standard. See Oladipo+Ilyasova+pick for Serge Ibaka just last season.
3b. Toronto are a playoff team hoping to be championship contenders and their Backup C options were Jacob Poeltl, Pascal Siakim and Lucas Nogueira. Does that explain the Serge Ibaka trade sufficiently enough for your liking? Aditionally Ibaka can shoot 3s and defensive bigs that shoot 3s as well as Ibaka are basically impossible to get.

4.the kings had a pretty successful draft last season. They added Buddy (SG) Papagianis (C) Richardson (SG/SF) and Skal (PF/C) aditionally they have Kosta Koufos (C) and WCS (PF/C) as useful players who need minutes. Add 2 draft picks from this season and thats 8 of your 10 player rotation set. Really 9 since someone will need to play backup PG. All that is before Gay, Evans, McClemmore, Temple, Afflalo ect are even included. Since assumedly at minimum 2 of those players will be kings next season.
4a. I might not know what the kings would do, but i can take an educated guess that they will try and retain as much high character talent on their roster as possible.

5.You litterally said that teams like Minnesota and Sacramento would prefer to maintain cap flexibility, without explaining how it benefits them to do so. If you are going to be condescending at least show a valid path about why you are correct, not just offer platitudes that align themselves with conventional wisdom because.
5a. Like you have said Minny have a small window before they have to pay Wiggins, Lavine, Kat ect. So their Cap flexibility is on a deadline with a ticking clock. They cant maintain it forever. So maybe propose them doing something useful with it that isn't a pie in the sky scenario like Paul Millsap
5b 16 NBA teams will have >29M in potential maximum cap room this summer. Teams like GSW will obviously use it to resign their own players, but that still subtracts from the free agent pool, so they count.
5b.That number goes up to 21 teams if you use 20M in maximum potential cap space as the minimum qualifier.
5c. Over 2/3rds of NBA teams having access to a potential 20m+ free agency war chest is more then within a reasonable definition of most teams having cap space this summer.

So maybe don't be condescending and call other posters "out of their depth" without good reason. Unless you are an NBA GM none of this is more then people talking crap anyway.
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I already poked enough holes in your shoddy reasoning, I'm good fam. You can have the last word and think the Raptors are your simple moves away from solving things. It's not fun anymore so let's agree to disagree. Thanks for the discourse though, at least you tried, which I appreciate even if you didn't really make much sense to me.
 
R

reggieandTFE

Member
The Bulls aren't even getting calls at home. IT lost the ball and literally grabbed MCW to keep him from getting the ball. Foul on MCW.

Then they showed Lopez's one-handed tip where you can see Horford clearly holding his other arm.

Edit: and smart gets and and 1 after not being touched.
 
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Bread

Banned
reggieandTFE said:
The Bulls aren't even getting calls at home. IT lost the ball and literally grabbed MCW to keep him from getting the ball. Foul on MCW.

Then they showed Lopez's one-handed tip where you can see Horford clearly holding his other arm.

Edit: and smart gets and and 1 after not being touched.
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lucille-portable.gif
 
T

TTG

Member
JIMMAYYY, JIMMMAAAAAYY, JIMMAAAAAYYYYYYY


Carry them in the second half, do it for Rondo.

Is Jarian Grant the worst starter in the playoffs? He can't even pass, hitting open shooters in the shins, making them catch the ball like Odell Beckham.
 
P

panthapanda

Member
TTG said:
JIMMAYYY, JIMMMAAAAAYY, JIMMAAAAAYYYYYYY


Carry them in the second half, do it for Rondo.

Is Jarian Grant the worst starter in the playoffs? He can't even pass, hitting open shooters in the shins, making them catch the ball like Odell Beckham.
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I would say everyone on Hawks besides Millsap are the worst starters in the playoffs lol
 
B

Bread

Banned
Their shooting went cold and the Bulls came back. They just don't have anything besides IT's drive and kicks to make it through shooting slumps.
 
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