Support NeoGAF

[M3d10n]

I've seen you allude to this before, but which demo are you referring to? I've watched video of the Nintendo World 2011 demo from January, and I honestly can't discern a single difference in terms of lighting or shadowing; there are still no dynamic shadows except those cast by certain characters/objects in certain areas. The September 2010 Nintendo Conference demo looks no different, from what little I can make out.

It's mainly the shadows cast by the flashlight. In the Nintendo World demo, they are different from the dark shadow cast by Jill and the monsters (which are just projected shadows unrelated to the scene lighting). If you look carefully, they were cast by static geometry as well as the monster and actually mask the light coming from the flashlight (looking much fainter by result).

However, watching the old video again, the framerate went to the shitter when Jill was attacked with the flashlight on... so maybe that's the reason it got replaced by simple projections.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

OK, so here's a question for you that warrants some discussion:

How easy is it to port from the Wii to the 3DS? From the PSP to the 3DS? What about the other way around?

 

[PdotMichael]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447783

I guess, after the newest picture, it's safe to say, this is not Wii level.

 

[Tathanen]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447783

I guess, after the newest picture, it's safe to say, this is not Wii level.

"Level" is meaningless. Each system has different strengths, and the 3DS has proven that it is capable of producing effects not seen on the Wii. The issue with MH here is that they're taking a Wii engine and putting it on the 3DS. Had they developed it from scratch, we'd likely have a much different result.

 

[wsippel]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447783

I guess, after the newest picture, it's safe to say, this is not Wii level.

There's no way to accurately compare the two versions. The 3DS version has lower resolution textures and a lower poly count (the latter can be partially attributed to the fact that it's 3D), but features per pixel lighting and actual shadows, two graphical features the Wii version didn't offer, so it's certainly better in the lighting department. It should also be 24bit, whereas the Wii version was 16bit.

 

[Datschge]

The 3DS version has lower resolution textures and a lower poly count

Is this actually confirmed or just the general assumption based on what one can see through the lower resolution?

 

[blu]

There's no way to accurately compare the two versions. The 3DS version has lower resolution textures and a lower poly count (the latter can be partially attributed to the fact that it's 3D), but features per pixel lighting and actual shadows, two graphical features the Wii version didn't offer, so it's certainly better in the lighting department. It should also be 24bit, whereas the Wii version was 16bit.

Not to mention how interesting MH4 looks, from what little early footage we've seen.

 

[PdotMichael]

There's no way to accurately compare the two versions. The 3DS version has lower resolution textures and a lower poly count (the latter can be partially attributed to the fact that it's 3D), but features per pixel lighting and actual shadows, two graphical features the Wii version didn't offer, so it's certainly better in the lighting department. It should also be 24bit, whereas the Wii version was 16bit.

what you said is more speculation than fact.

The 3DS has some semi-real time shadows but it's in all other departmants weaker than the Wii version.

The fire has no effect on the shadow.

 

[Datschge]

The 3DS has some semi-real time shadows but it's in all departmant weaker than the Wii version.

The fire has no effect on the shadow.

It did on the Wii?

 

[fernoca]

I guess JPEG compression is also part of the look of the game.

 

[waicol]

I guess JPEG compression is also part of the look of the game.

The game is just an endless .gif animation.

 

[blu]

what you said is more speculation than fact.

The 3DS has some semi-real time shadows but it's in all other departmants weaker than the Wii version.

<snip>

The fire has no effect on the shadow.

There's nothing 'semi' about the realtime nature of those shadows. They're just not from multiple light sources, which is nothing to write home about, as not that many games, even on the bigger platforms, actually do shadows for multiple lights sources, all the time. Even those that do shadows from multiple sources, still do that for a couple of the most prominent lights in a scene.

 

[MrBelmontvedere]

why is it that whenever someone posts a 3DS thread all the pictures are 800×600 or some other impossible (for 3DS) resolution.

the low screen resolution is one of the most unforgivably regressive things about the 3DS.

 

[BDGAME]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447783

I guess, after the newest picture, it's safe to say, this is not Wii level.

Pictures? We have videos showing a game that looks on par with the Wii game. See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asnDP0Zj7mQ

Some textures looks worse, but the better illumination, self shadow and the 3D will do the trick to make this looks better than Wii version in the end.

 

[BDGAME]

Its been a while since I create this thread, and now that this machine became more popular, and games like Nano Assault and Monster Hunter 3G was launched, I believe we have more material to complete this increasing discussion.

From the new games, Monster Hunter impressed more, running in a frame above the Wii game, even in 3D.

But some things still disturbe me, like the fact that the tennis minigame in mario and Sonic looks better than the first video of Mario Tennis.

Some companies are making a wonderful job with this machine, but others not even seems they are trying.

And about its power, Its looking very close to Wii, but with Xbox shadders, right now.

 

[DCKing]

It may be interesting to note that somebody found out what was actually in the 3DS:

This is semi-confirmed, but I can't find the link anymore (it was some homebrew site that found this out):
CPU: 2x ARM11 cores, 267 MHz clock speed. One was reserved entirely for the OS until a recent devkit update.
GPU: 267 MHz PICA200
Memory: 128MB FCRAM @ 267 MHz, 32MB reserved for the OS

The interesting part is that a 'confirmed' clockrate allows you to derive what the GPU can do using DMP's brochure.

     | Fillrate (MPixels/sec) | Geometry (millions of polygons/sec)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
3DS  |        1068            |               20.43 
Cube |         648            |               20.25
Wii  |         972            |               30.38

So it outperforms the GameCube theoretically, and it does better shading as well. It's a shame that the 3D mode takes away a large portion of the power advantage. Games could look better than GameCube games if they'd use 2D mode exclusively.

 

[Celine]

And about its power, Its looking very close to Wii, but with Xbox shadders, right now.

That's what I expect from 3DS ( not talking about the raw processing power but the overall graphic quality it can render on the small display).

Nano Assault looks indeed wonderful thanks to the shaders, can't wait to play it.
http://youtu.be/R1llW0ZfawY

 

[BDGAME]

It may be interesting to note that somebody found out what was actually in the 3DS:

This is semi-confirmed, but I can't find the link anymore (it was some homebrew site that found this out):
CPU: 2x ARM11 cores, 267 MHz clock speed. One was reserved entirely for the OS until a recent devkit update.
GPU: 267 MHz PICA200
Memory: 128MB FCRAM @ 267 MHz, 32MB reserved for the OS

The interesting part is that a 'confirmed' clockrate allows you to derive what the GPU can do using DMP's brochure.

     | Fillrate (MPixels/sec) | Geometry (millions of polygons/sec)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
3DS  |        1068            |               20.43 
Cube |         648            |               20.25
Wii  |         972            |               30.38

So it outperforms the GameCube theoretically, and it does better shading as well. It's a shame that the 3D mode takes away a large portion of the power advantage. Games could look better than GameCube games if they'd use 2D mode exclusively.

Nice find. But I believe your conclusion is wrong.

Look, the amount of polygons in screen varying from game to game. Rouge Squadron III of NGC runs with a lot of shaders and lights and display something like 40 millions polygons per second at 60 fps.

Since 3DS run dynamic light and shaddres out of the box, Its right to think these kinds of effects have a minnor impct in overall process power than in ngc or wii.

If thats true, 3DS can make a game even more beauty than RSIII. And even if 3D eating some polygons, the small screen will help to not feel the difference.

In the end, Capcom is not making any miracle, they are making what many the others companies aren't: use the hardware's fucking resources.

 

[Luigiv]

Look, the amount of polygons in screen varying from game to game. Rouge Squadron III of NGC runs with a lot of shaders and lights and display something like 40 millions polygons per second at 60 fps.

Rougue Squadron III was only 20 million a second. Also since we're measure in a per second denomination, the 60fps part is superfluous and irrelevant to your point.

Also RSIII is a very simple game with very simple underlying logic and systems. The reason it looks as good as it does is because a lot of that "shader" work was done on the CPU leaving the GPU free to focus on the tasks it's good at. This is something the 3DS can't do. Even if both ARM 11 cores were completely free and usable in game, their combined might still wouldn't be able to touch Gekko.

3DS vs GCN is not a simple comparison to make.

 

[Vanillalite]

In terms of what I've personally played Mario Kart for some reason just seems the most impressive. I can't explain how (or why), but where as a lot of other games such as OOT for instance seem to look pixelated with the 3d on MK IQ looks waaaaayyy better IMO. Some people have told me that's just the fast moving 60fps gameplay, but I swear it looks like it has some AA going on or something. 3d looks decent as well, and I can look at it for long stretches from the get go unlike other titles.

I'm not really sure it's pushing that many polys though in terms of kart models or tracks though, and it's only using 8 people online verses 12 like on the Wii.

Still my main complaint I'd have hardware wise about the system is how pixelated a ton of games look especially in 3d mode. MK7 just doesn't seem to have this to me.

 

[waicol]

OK, so here's a question for you that warrants some discussion:

How easy is it to port from the Wii to the 3DS? From the PSP to the 3DS? What about the other way around?

Pretty old post but it has a pretty good question, so i´m going to reply.

While the three consoles are in the same ballpark generation-wise, psp it's in the weakest position. So pretty much any psp can be ported to the Nintendo systems, but the other way around could be easy in some cases but there are many games that have no chance in hell of running on the PSP at respectable framerates, or that couldn't even boot.

From Wii to 3DS should be fairly easy (see MH3G) with improved performance infact, despite lowering the poly-count a tad.

 

[wsippel]

3DS also has 6MB embedded dedicated VRAM and a 134MHz audio DSP, which takes load off the CPU cores (which are ARM11 MPCore cores with VFP extensions).

 

[Luigiv]

3DS also has 6MB embedded dedicated VRAM and a 134MHz audio DSP, which takes load off the CPU cores (which are ARM11 MPCore cores with VFP extensions).

That's true. That 6MB of embedded VRAM is insane, btw. I was quite blown away when I first read that spec.

 

[wsippel]

That's true. That 6MB of embedded VRAM is insane, btw. I was quite blown away when I first read that spec.

The weirdest thing about the system is that CPU, GPU and RAM all run at the exact same clockspeed I think. I also wonder if the RAM is dual channel, as the memory chip contains two 64MB dies instead of a single 128MB die.

Another thing I recently found suggests that the 3DS uses full blown Maestro units. The units are modular, so if a customer doesn't need, say, gaseous object rendering, this feature can be removed. So even though no game released so far seems to support tessellation or procedural textures, the features should be there.

 

[Luigiv]

The weirdest thing about the system is that CPU, GPU and RAM all run at the exact same clockspeed I think. I also wonder if the RAM is dual channel, as the memory chip contains two 64MB dies instead of a single 128MB die.

Another thing I recently found suggests that the 3DS uses full blown Maestro units. The units are modular, so if a customer doesn't need, say, gaseous object rendering, this feature can be removed. So even though no game released so far seems to support tessellation or procedural textures, the features should be there.

Yeah, the 3DS certainly has quite a unique hardware design, that's for sure.

As for the Maestro units, I was not aware they were modular, that's quite interesting. Though I can't say I'm surprised that no one is using the tessellation unit. Seems quite useless given the low poly throughput. I figure DMP was targeting the feature at arcade machines, not handhelds.

 

[Pimpbaa]

3DS also has 6MB embedded dedicated VRAM and a 134MHz audio DSP, which takes load off the CPU cores (which are ARM11 MPCore cores with VFP extensions).

Didn't expect the 3DS to have a chip dedicated to sound (considering they didn't for GBA and GS). Haven't used headphones with my 3DS yet so I wouldn't have noticed the difference. Going to have to try next time I play a 3DS game.

 

[sfried]

Didn't expect the 3DS to have a chip dedicated to sound (considering they didn't for GBA and GS). Haven't used headphones with my 3DS yet so I wouldn't have noticed the difference. Going to have to try next time I play a 3DS game.

The leap in audio quality is quite apparent. A good demonstration would be Ace Combat Assault Horizon Legacy and its orchestral tracks.

I didn't know 3DS could have full blown Maestro units. If that were the case, then doesn't all Nintendo have to do is "buy" the license for these from DMP in order for them to unlock them, in much the same way I keep hearing about these POWER cores from IBM are all fully featured but locked out (or something else I read in the Wii U thread)?

 

[DonMigs85]

Didn't expect the 3DS to have a chip dedicated to sound (considering they didn't for GBA and GS). Haven't used headphones with my 3DS yet so I wouldn't have noticed the difference. Going to have to try next time I play a 3DS game.

In a sense the ARM7 in DS was kinda a dedicated audio chip, but it had to handle the touchscreen too.

 

[Übermatik]

Wow, never knew it was capable of SSS. Impressive.

 

[GDGF]

This thread is great. Glad there's more info out there finally.

 

[Luigiv]

This thread is great. Glad there's more info out there finally.

Yeah, the official specs were leaked to the public a few of months ago (or at least the high level specs were). You can read about them here if you want. Quite different to the pre-launch rumoured specs IGN "leaked", that we had all been using before for discussion. Still, IGN were right on the money about the dual core ARM11 so makes you wonder what happened there (early dev kits maybe).

 

[DCKing]

^ That's the link I meant.

I wonder what all the VRAM is for. Assuming a double buffer for both 3D render targets and the bottom screen, only 2.15 MB is needed.

 

[blu]

^ That's the link I meant.

I wonder what all the VRAM is for. Assuming a double buffer for both 3D render targets and the bottom screen, only 2.15 MB is needed.

Render targets are not necessarily of fb resolution. Or of the same numbers as the # of screens. And may use AA ; ) Last but not least, texturing from local memory yields lower latencies.

 

[wsippel]

Another thing: Nintendo now supports five different ways to program the GPU. The easiest way is DMPGL (OpenGL|ES with Maestro stuff), which is easy to use but has a very high overhead. Then comes GD, a functional equivalent but not compatible to OpenGL and more lightweight, followed by GR, which is even more low level and offers better performance, but requires more in-depth knowledge of the GPU. The next option is NW4C (NintendoWare for CTR), Nintendo's official middleware solution, complete with graphical frontends and stuff. Supposedly easy to use and high performance, but I assume flexibility is limited. And last, but not least, is direct register access, which requires arcane knowledge but offers the best possible performance (and the most ways for stuff to go horribly wrong).

 

[Luigiv]

Another thing: Nintendo now supports five different ways to program the GPU. The easiest way is DMPGL (OpenGL|ES with Maestro stuff), which is easy to use but has a very high overhead. Then comes GD, a functional equivalent but not compatible to OpenGL and more lightweight, followed by GR, which is even more low level and offers better performance, but requires more in-depth knowledge of the GPU. The next option is NW4C (NintendoWare for CTR), Nintendo's official middleware solution, complete with graphical frontends and stuff. Supposedly easy to use and high performance, but I assume flexibility is limited. And last, but not least, is direct register access, which requires arcane knowledge but offers the best possible performance (and the most ways for stuff to go horribly wrong).

That would explain a lot, especially the part in bold. I imagine DMPGL would be by far the most popular option amongst third party devs (since a lot of them would already be familiar with OpenGL ES1.1). If it really does have a high overhead then that would explain the huge discrepancy between Capcom and Shin'en to everyone else. It'd also explain why epic think UE3M would be impossible on the 3DS (since it's programming is OGLES based).

 

[Panajev2001a]

Render targets are not necessarily of fb resolution. Or of the same numbers as the # of screens. And may use AA ; ) Last but not least, texturing from local memory yields lower latencies.

I wonder if you can render an off-screen surface into this e-DRAM and texture directly on it (like you did on PS2's GS) or it is like on Flipper and Xenos where you have to export the fbo to external memory first and then load the texture (which on Flipper gets its contents loaded into the Texture Cache space of the e-DRAM). You are rendering the texture from local memory, once it gets loaded into the cache and assuming you do not have 1 texture per polygon and very tiny polygons the hit of this kind of RTT operations should not be too bad.

Still, considering 800x240 (so, we get S3D counted for) vs 640x480 on GCN and Wii (which have ~3.12 MB of e-DRAM IIRC)... You have quite a bit more VRAM on 3DS.

 

[lwilliams3]

Another thing: Nintendo now supports five different ways to program the GPU. The easiest way is DMPGL (OpenGL|ES with Maestro stuff), which is easy to use but has a very high overhead. Then comes GD, a functional equivalent but not compatible to OpenGL and more lightweight, followed by GR, which is even more low level and offers better performance, but requires more in-depth knowledge of the GPU. The next option is NW4C (NintendoWare for CTR), Nintendo's official middleware solution, complete with graphical frontends and stuff. Supposedly easy to use and high performance, but I assume flexibility is limited. And last, but not least, is direct register access, which requires arcane knowledge but offers the best possible performance (and the most ways for stuff to go horribly wrong).

Thanks for the info. Didn't think there would be so many choices. Hope more developerers will try the riskier ways as they get more familiar with the hardware.

 

[blu]

I wonder if you can render an off-screen surface into this e-DRAM and texture directly on it (like you did on PS2's GS) or it is like on Flipper and Xenos where you have to export the fbo to external memory first and then load the texture (which on Flipper gets its contents loaded into the Texture Cache space of the e-DRAM). You are rendering the texture from local memory, once it gets loaded into the cache and assuming you do not have 1 texture per polygon and very tiny polygons the hit of this kind of RTT operations should not be too bad.

Still, considering 800x240 (so, we get S3D counted for) vs 640x480 on GCN and Wii (which have ~3.12 MB of e-DRAM IIRC)... You have quite a bit more VRAM on 3DS.

I think it's safe to assume you don't need to evict your render targets before using them as textures, given the total size of current_render_target + former_render_target (AKA current_texture) fit in VRAM. All it takes for the hw to allow that is support linear texturing (as opposed to Z-ordered, or tiled texturing) from VRAM. Or, alternatively, support tiled render targets.

 

[BDGAME]

Rougue Squadron III was only 20 million a second. Also since we're measure in a per second denomination, the 60fps part is superfluous and irrelevant to your point.

Also RSIII is a very simple game with very simple underlying logic and systems. The reason it looks as good as it does is because a lot of that "shader" work was done on the CPU leaving the GPU free to focus on the tasks it's good at. This is something the 3DS can't do. Even if both ARM 11 cores were completely free and usable in game, their combined might still wouldn't be able to touch Gekko.

3DS vs GCN is not a simple comparison to make.

Thanks for the correction. Its true, RS3 make 20 mps on screen. But I mentioned the FPS because it also have influence in polygon count. I remember that PGR2 on XBOX was set to run at 30fps in order to put more polygons on screen. In the end, I think the 20mps, at 60fps, of RS3 are more impressive than the 30mps at 30fps of PGR2, no?

And the way that RS3 make the shaders are new to me. If Factor 5 try to port this game to 3DS they sure will need to make it of a different way, like let the GPU handle all the Shadders. But as you say, it is not easy to make comparasion between 3DS and NGC, how much more port a game like this.

Port very optimized games for a hardware should not be that easy. We can see an exemple of the difficulty they are having to port MGS3 for the 3DS.

 

[wazoo]

Thanks for the correction. Its true, RS3 make 20 mps on screen. But I mentioned the FPS because it also have influence in polygon count. I remember that PGR2 on XBOX was set to run at 30fps in order to put more polygons on screen. In the end, I think the 20mps, at 60fps, of RS3 are more impressive than the 30mps at 30fps of PGR2, no?

the number of polygons in a given frame is the total number of pol / divided by the number of frames (so obvious ) , so most of the times, 30fps games look better and 60fps games look smoother. In the end, a 60fps 20mps gives 300k pol a frame and a 30 fps 30M pol/sec gives 1M pol by frame, so on screenshot, PGR3 looked 3 times more complex. Of course, at 60fps, it would have done 500k pol a frame and still be more complex than RS3.

Anyway, the numbers for Rogue Squadron seems way off for me, because those number are peaks values and the game was rarely reaching 60fps as far as I remember. At least RS2 was not very stable, I have to check for RS3.

 

[heringer]

All this tech talk... guys, tell me what I can expect from the 3DS compared to other systems in Dragon Ball Z language.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

Another thing: Nintendo now supports five different ways to program the GPU. The easiest way is DMPGL (OpenGL|ES with Maestro stuff), which is easy to use but has a very high overhead. Then comes GD, a functional equivalent but not compatible to OpenGL and more lightweight, followed by GR, which is even more low level and offers better performance, but requires more in-depth knowledge of the GPU. The next option is NW4C (NintendoWare for CTR), Nintendo's official middleware solution, complete with graphical frontends and stuff. Supposedly easy to use and high performance, but I assume flexibility is limited. And last, but not least, is direct register access, which requires arcane knowledge but offers the best possible performance (and the most ways for stuff to go horribly wrong).

Sorry if the question is stupid. Could they use some of the Maestro extensions while programming in a different way than DMPGL?

 

[Luigiv]

Thanks for the correction. Its true, RS3 make 20 mps on screen. But I mentioned the FPS because it also have influence in polygon count. I remember that PGR2 on XBOX was set to run at 30fps in order to put more polygons on screen. In the end, I think the 20mps, at 60fps, of RS3 are more impressive than the 30mps at 30fps of PGR2, no?

Do you understand the meaning of "per second"? Just think about it a moment. Polygons per second, Frames per second, just think about it a moment. Think about the mathematical relation that each bears to each other. Simply put, one does not effect the other.

If we were talking about polygons per frame, that would be a different story, but since we're talking in polygons per second, the fps is superfluous to the discussion. It's a tangential value. It means nothing. 20m poly per second is still 20 million poly per second regardless of of how many frames it's spread across.

It's really not that hard a concept to grasp. That's the whole reason we measure per second in the first place.

And the way that RS3 make the shaders are new to me. If Factor 5 try to port this game to 3DS they sure will need to make it of a different way, like let the GPU handle all the Shadders. But as you say, it is not easy to make comparasion between 3DS and NGC, how much more port a game like this.

Port very optimized games for a hardware should not be that easy. We can see an exemple of the difficulty they are having to port MGS3 for the 3DS.

Yeah, the 3DS hardware really is quite different to the GCN/Wii. Low level code would not be easy to port at all.

To get RSIII running on 3DS with anywhere near respectable performance, you would literally have to rewrite the entire engine and handle the rendering in a totally different style. Same goes for MGS3 though obviously Konami couldn't be bothered with that.

Sorry if the question is stupid. Could they use some of the Maestro extensions while programming in a different way than DMPGL?

Yes. As a general rule of thumb, the lower level you go the higher level of hardware access you get. GMPGL is literally the highest level you can go without being an actual engine itself (like Nintendoware is).

 

[DCKing]

All this tech talk... guys, tell me what I can expect from the 3DS compared to other systems in Dragon Ball Z language.

GameCube is Perfect Cell, 3DS is Ultra Saiyan Future Trunks. Trunks is a bit more powerful, but Cell still beats him because he's leaner and faster.

 

[M3d10n]

It may be interesting to note that somebody found out what was actually in the 3DS:

This is semi-confirmed, but I can't find the link anymore (it was some homebrew site that found this out):
CPU: 2x ARM11 cores, 267 MHz clock speed. One was reserved entirely for the OS until a recent devkit update.
GPU: 267 MHz PICA200
Memory: 128MB FCRAM @ 267 MHz, 32MB reserved for the OS

The interesting part is that a 'confirmed' clockrate allows you to derive what the GPU can do using DMP's brochure.

     | Fillrate (MPixels/sec) | Geometry (millions of polygons/sec)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
3DS  |        1068            |               20.43 
Cube |         648            |               20.25
Wii  |         972            |               30.38

So it outperforms the GameCube theoretically, and it does better shading as well. It's a shame that the 3D mode takes away a large portion of the power advantage. Games could look better than GameCube games if they'd use 2D mode exclusively.

Yeah, this is pretty much aligned with my own conclusions: same raw geometry output as the GameCube, but games designed to run in 3D are effectively capable of using only 10 millions polys/sec.

I also suspected the fillrate was around Wii-levels. While the 800x240 S3D screen has a bit less pixels than the 640x480 Wii framebuffer, the 320x240 lower screen cannot be discounted. Also, many of the per-pixel effects surely need additional fillrate.

^ That's the link I meant.

I wonder what all the VRAM is for. Assuming a double buffer for both 3D render targets and the bottom screen, only 2.15 MB is needed.

Some Maestro extensions probably need to keep additional buffers lying around, specially the shadowmapping effects.

 

[Chuckpebble]

Maybe not the right place for this, but you can snap an image of a magic eye photo and then go into the camera app and adjust it with the circle pad to see the 3D image within. Now I just need a time machine.

 

[M3d10n]

Maybe not the right place for this, but you can snap an image of a magic eye photo and then go into the camera app and adjust it with the circle pad to see the 3D image within. Now I just need a time machine.

Oh shit! I just googled some magic eye pictures on the net and tested: it works!

 

[drspeedy]

That's interesting... didn't know this was possible. Try this one:

 

[BDGAME]

All this tech talk... guys, tell me what I can expect from the 3DS compared to other systems in Dragon Ball Z language.

With these numbers, I believe it can run a game like RE4, but with better light and effects than the NGC version.

RE4 runs at 10mps on NGC and at 5mps on Ps2, that kind of polygon number 3DS can handle.

Leon model uses 10k polygons on NGC, what the same amount of a Wretch of Gears of War or a Crysis character. And the 3DS can use the effects these games use in their models, like diffuse, specular and normal maps.

In the end, Resident Evil Revelations give us a good idea what a game can look and play in 3DS: a last gen size and amount of objects in screen with a actual gen details.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

With these numbers, I believe it can run a game like RE4, but with better light and effects than the NGC version.

RE4 runs at 10mps on NGC and at 5mps on Ps2, that kind of polygon number 3DS can handle.

Leon model uses 10k polygons on NGC, what the same amount of a Wretch of Gears of War or a Crysis character. And the 3DS can use the effects these games use in their models, like diffuse, specular and normal maps.

In the end, Resident Evil Revelations give us a good idea what a game can look and play in 3DS: a last gen size and amount of objects in screen with a actual gen details.

Yeah, but Revelations is at best(!) a second gen game and Nintendo could eventually unlock more power or Maestro things. I don´t think Revelations is the end. but one of the first AAA 3DS games.

I wonder if some publishers will go the 2D only route and if that would improve the graphics.