-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Official BOHICA? Black Xbox 360 W/HDMI, 120GB HD Coming Late April
- Thread starter QuickKick89
- Start date
DopeyFish said:
It's incredibly smart. It allows them to "liquidate" the Premium stock at 399.99. Then when that stock is gone, they can replace it with a white Elite that's 399.99. And the 479.99 people can't complain that they got jobbed (because they're special. They've got black).
Now you can argue it would be smarter to drop the prices and pounce on Sony while their momentum is down, but if their policy is not to drop the prices, this is a brilliantly devious plan to allow them to have their cake and eat it too.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
I wonder if they've done anything about their firmware issue with this new 360 as well.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
m0dus said:
yeah
chibcicylist
Banned
I don't see the price benefiting Sony. I am actually inclined to think that Microsoft saw an opening with the $600 price tag and poor sales and raised their prices accordingly because they still look WAY cheaper than the perceived $600 price of the PS3. They still have the price cut advantage.
As for the Wii/360, it's definitely a negative effect, especially with public perception. They already have a $300 version and is only $50 more than the Wii but sales numbers says otherwise. Now the 360 will be known as the $500 console, especially if they plan to release this more widely later on(aren't they going to release a white 120 GB one later on? at what price?). This gives me the impression that they don't care beating Nintendo as much as they want to get the upperhand against Sony.
As for the Wii/360, it's definitely a negative effect, especially with public perception. They already have a $300 version and is only $50 more than the Wii but sales numbers says otherwise. Now the 360 will be known as the $500 console, especially if they plan to release this more widely later on(aren't they going to release a white 120 GB one later on? at what price?). This gives me the impression that they don't care beating Nintendo as much as they want to get the upperhand against Sony.
I completely disagree with keeping the premium 360 price the same, but releasing a MORE expensive SKU when everyone's expecting a price drop is definitely throwing a curve ball.
What's funny is that once this thing comes out it will most likely give the 360 a sales boost. Can you see the headlines?
"Xbox 360 increases in price and doubles in sales!"
I's a great way of building value in a product 2 years after it comes out. I wonder if this is what MS is going for. Otherwise, I am stumped.
PS: I want one of these
What's funny is that once this thing comes out it will most likely give the 360 a sales boost. Can you see the headlines?
"Xbox 360 increases in price and doubles in sales!"
I's a great way of building value in a product 2 years after it comes out. I wonder if this is what MS is going for. Otherwise, I am stumped.
PS: I want one of these
i'm calling it right now:
* Elite is announced for $479
* the core drops to $230
The price drop doesn't really affect MS's "bottom line" cause there isn't that many Cores out there... but people will still praise MS for "dropping the price"
****THIS FALL****
* The Premium drops to $299
*Elite drops to $399
just in time for Halo & GTA, and also causing MS to have 2 console surges before years end...
THIS.WILL.HAPPEN.
* Elite is announced for $479
* the core drops to $230
The price drop doesn't really affect MS's "bottom line" cause there isn't that many Cores out there... but people will still praise MS for "dropping the price"
****THIS FALL****
* The Premium drops to $299
*Elite drops to $399
just in time for Halo & GTA, and also causing MS to have 2 console surges before years end...
THIS.WILL.HAPPEN.
WarLox said:
I know this is probably out there...but how much would you guys say is destroying Sony world wide in one fell swoop worth to Microsoft? A lot right?
What if there's more than meets the eye to this thing? What if MS has gotten to the point where they are currently making a profit on the original Premium and instead of opting for a price drop they take that profit and apply it to help them cut their loss on a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Xbox 360 with HDMI BUILT-IN for $479?
The UK boss did say they would support whichever platform wins right?
I know...very not likely but I wonder what would happen if they did something like that.
Edit: Actually if the HD is sold separately it kind of gives this even more validity. Surely a $79 increase is not worth a color and HDMI alone, is there?
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
THey will never support a format enough to include it. I don't know why people mention this.
I still can't believe that MS is doing this. They are in the position to own the price wars against sony but instead of lowering the prices they are going to make a more expensive version.
Because of this move I really don't imagine that they will drop the price of the core and premium anytime soon(no drop in 2007). They are going to sell the premium for $300 and the elite for $480? I doubt it, no one is going to pay for the elite with that much of a difference. They should be dropping the 360 by $100, instead they're giving everyone a reason to think the ps3 isn't overpriced. So weird.
Because of this move I really don't imagine that they will drop the price of the core and premium anytime soon(no drop in 2007). They are going to sell the premium for $300 and the elite for $480? I doubt it, no one is going to pay for the elite with that much of a difference. They should be dropping the 360 by $100, instead they're giving everyone a reason to think the ps3 isn't overpriced. So weird.
LAMBO said:
Very, but really, after last month's NPD, do you think they really need a price drop?
Price drops are used to pull away from competition, but if they're already doubling the sales of the PS3....what's the use?
The only reason they should be doing this right now is to go after the Wii, but either they are not concerned with it right now or....awe f*** I don't know. I am stumped too.
I just wish it comes with a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drive. That's the only way I'll pay extra money to buy one. Otherwise they can keep it since they made it possible for me to get 1080p over compononet - VT3 looks sick on my 1080p Sharp.
chibcicylist
Banned
Oh yeah, where did we get this idea that they don't really mind being second place to Nintendo? That their actual top priority is not letting Sony win? It's the only explanation why there won't be a price drop this year and the price of this Elite model.
chibcicylist said:
Who says they don't mind? But companies do not make long-term decision based on 3 months worth of sales(assuming the Wii outsells the 360 again in March).
That would be really stupid. If every time a console beats you over the course of a couple of months, you make drastic changes in your long term business model, then I think you would have a major problem. If the Wii sustains its sales over a longer period of time, and that causes the industry to shift focus, I'm sure they will respond accordingly, but right now they STILL have the lead and the 360 IS the lead platform for third parties. I don't know why people ignore this.
I don't know where this being second place to Nintendo is coming from. If in a race you're 20 laps ahead of your competition, and for the past 2 laps your closest competitor beat your time, that doesn't mean you're in second place does it?
chibcicylist
Banned
jimbo said:
I personally don't believe it but its been their mantra that they don't really compete with the Wii. The Xbots are also saying the same things(like a good little soldier).
pooteeweet
Banned
I was originally against the idea of having a 3rd SKU at this price point, but the more time goes by there more I think this is a win/win for MS and gamers. Mainly because it's a limited edition. Whatever the production run is, it will sell out. Some fence sitters will see value in the package, and many more will upgrade their existing systems. Having an extra 200K-500K units out there will help MS, and give it bragging rights for NPD. Existing customers are unaffected, so really, who loses? Again, this is assuming they just do this for a couple months over the summer and then roll out a true price drop along the lines of what GhaleonEB suggested in the fall. MS gets the added bonus getting production started early on the new mobo we'll likely see in all SKUs later this year.
chibcicylist
Banned
i dunno, i wasnt here back then.us In fact, i wasnt a nintentard until i got a wii. lapsed gamer and all.
jimbo said:
They don't need it, but why not beat sony's numbers even more, and as you say, go after the wii a little. Why wait for ps3 and wii to get cheaper? The 360 came out a year before the competiton to grab the market, shouldn't the first price drop be a year before the competition to keep grabbing the market?
BlazeDSM
Member
I will buy one of the so called "elite" 360's only because my brother bought the core and upgraded it w/the cables, hd, and the headset. Since thats his and its downstairs...this would be a perfect opportunity to grab an lcd (black of course) for my room w/hdmi. The black 360 would match it so well...anyways, I want one.
LAMBO said:
A number of reasons why.
1. They may lose money.
2. They lose the advantage of being able to respond not to mention the "thunder". If Sony reacts with a price drop of their own they will steal MS's thunder...(I think this happened last generation as well). Why lose the advantage of FORCING your competitor to make the first move?
3. Media: "Microsoft releases more expensive Xbox 360. Sales double!"
4. Loss of flexibility. Say they drop the price now. Then Sony does something crazy and the PS3 takes off. How will they counter that if they've already dropped the price?
I keep saying this but it falls on def years. It's not as simple as " Wii outsold us last month, we need a price drop next month!" That's reacting to the moves of your competition. Not thinking. Not planning. You are no longer in control. If you ever had a chance to listen to some of the best salespeople in the world, they will tell you the #1 problem most salespeople have is they react, and not think.
What we're seeing from the outside is really a small fraction of what's going on inside these companies. I don't know what goes on, but I know it's a lot more complex than just simply dropping the price in reaction to what it's happening right now, and not considering what can happen tomorrow.
I am just an account executive, but even when I go to see one of my clients over an account as small as $200 I have an A, B, C and even D plan. I have to believe MS, a billion dollar company does the same. Their plans probably span the entire alphabet.
FirstInHell
Banned
jimbo said:
This is the most compelling argument anyone has given against a price drop. Nice job.
They are outselling the PS3 right now and they are still cheaper than the PS3. Why should they drop it at this point? They should save the price drop like a "Get Out of Jail Free" card in case Sony does something crazy.
True. Historically, price drops have been used less as a competitive weapon and more to boost sales when they slow down at a given price point. The 360 is selling better this year than last, at the same price. Why drop in price when sales are going up? (And yes - supply constrained last year.)FirstInHell said:
FirstInHell said:
I agree, however, I would like to see some kind of price drop by the time Halo3 drops. There will be all types of media surrounding its release and it will give them a chance to move a ton of units if they strike while the irons hot. Until then, I don't think they should or need to.
Who'd have guessed that more than two years into this $399 console's life, we'd still be waiting for the first price drop? Even more astounding, that there's still no real compelling reason for MS to do so?
Quite the turnaround in fortunes there, MS. Now stop raping us with your online policies and all will be well.
Quite the turnaround in fortunes there, MS. Now stop raping us with your online policies and all will be well.
Kolgar said:
Well, in the USA of course there is no reason to do so. Sales in Europe are nearly half of what they are in the USA, so I think it would be in MS best interest to get a price drop soon . And this would take effect worldwide (Except japan where 360 is like 280 bucks anyway).
We all know MS is trying to make money on the hardware anyway. And rumors suggest they are currently profiting off the premium system. I have a feeling we won't see the premium at $299.99 until MS can make sure the entire package costs them less than 300 to produce.
gollumsluvslave
Member
?? November 2005 launch for 360 means it's been on the market for a year and 5 months...
There most definitley will be a price drop before Halo 3 and GTAIV, or Microsoft are plain stupid.
When you look at it in the grand scale I think MS is releasing this model so when fall comes they can drop down the price of the premium while still retaining a system at $399 for maximum profit. So in essence we will see a price drop if the current premium at $399 drops this fall to $299 and the Elite takes the place of the current premium. More and more that $299 core system is looking like it was brillint decision by MS to maximise profits. They can easily lower prices to make the consumer feel as if there getting more for less while shaving little off there current prices. No question Nintendo and Sony may be backed into a corner to price drop sooner than later.
RumpledForeskin said:
Again it's actually a pretty brilliant move. Why should a price drop to increase sales be the way to go when you can do both increase sales AND profits?
Plus they get a lot of free advertising by launching a new SKU. If they can say, we can make our Xbox as expensive as the PS3 and still outsell it, that's a powerful message.
jimbo said:
it's possible for microsoft to approach it on the western front, at least, but it won't happen the longer they keep the top-tier price of the 360 at or above $400. there's blood in the water, microsoft would be smart to pounce now or risk allowing nintendo to erode the lead further and sony to regroup a bit, if that's even possible.
Odysseus said:
That's a valid point as well. And you would think the logical move.
Like I said, I am stumped on why they are going this route, but if we can see the logical move, I'm sure they do too. If they're going another route, you would think they have a damn good reason.
I do think there are causing a lot of people to sit on the fence right now though, because so many people are waiting for the expected price drop. Even if they don't do a price drop, an announcement that they won't do that would probably increase their sales.
jimbo said:
i think it's just a matter of the fact that there's two things at work. people don't want to spend $400 on a game console in mass quantities, which is a reason why xbox 360 sales are merely solid and not spectacular. at the same time, people don't want to feel like they have settled for less, which makes the $300 core a non-factor. even if what some suggest is true, that the 120gb model became the new premium at $400 after the initial limited run of elite, i think what would happen is that sales of the current premium would sag and overall sales would remain flat. people want cheap without feeling cheap.
it's too early to bring a new permanent sku to the market. bring down the price, go for a position of dominance, and once you are entrenched as the market leader, then introduce new options if you wish. hdmi, good. larger hdd, fine. but not at the expense of a top-line price drop.
jimbo said:
they're mildly retarded?
actually, i don't think they expected sony to start out this poorly in 2007. i think they planned to introduce a new sku to compete with what they thought would be an initially successful ps3, and it hasn't happened so far. consumers are rejecting high priced consoles, and i don't think microsoft expected it to this degree. they had plans, but i think the new data should make them do a rewrite.
that, or the raging hard-on for ipod's business model is more severe than anyone knew. and it's a model i just don't think will fly in gaming.
Odysseus said:
I can see your first point(no not the part about them being retarded) but why still go on and release it? I mean they've had months since reports of the PS3's sales not being up to expectations.
I don't think we have the entire picture. I think there's more to this system than meets the eye. Especially if you assume a price drop of the premium unit. That would mean you have a $299 Premium and a $479 Elite with the only difference being black and HDMI? Who would buy that? Who would pay an extra $179 for a color and HDMI, especially when you can get 1080p over component?
I mean really, so far all of MS's moves have been tactical and very smart, that I can't just toss this one to them losing brain cells.
Either there's more to this SKU than meets the eye, or it's not going to be priced at $479(if all it has is black and HDMI).
Also, 100GB of extra HDD space. Still not nearly enough to justify $180. For the people holding out for a 360, it's either a price drop or software that will get them to buy it. Not a more expensive SKU with a lower value:cost ratio. I think Odysseus might be right - MS was prepping an ultra-premium SKU to go head to head with the PS3, expecting a battle on that front (for some batshit insane reason).jimbo said:
considering 1/2 the people in here arguing thought that when the ps3 came out 360 sales would plummet or come to a hault i wouldn't pay attention to ANY of your opinions. none of you know what the fk you're talking about. 360 will do just fine. the reason ms is in the position they are is because they give the consumer OPTIONS.
pooteeweet
Banned
Odysseus said:
This is true, but at this point don't all signs point to this being a limited edition? I still don't see the problem in selling an additional 250,000-500,000 units over the traditionally slow months of summer. My guess is that the 65nm chips just aren't ready to go but the mobos are. Start ramping up production on the mobos, give fencer sitters and enthutiasts a reason to buy, get some NPD bragging rights, and then when the chip is ready go back to the white 360's. You've given yourself a jumpstart on economies of scale on the mobo, combine that with the new chips and you can have the elite at $349 the core at $249 by fall (or something along those lines). As for MS' motivation, I just don't think things quite went as planned. If I had to hazard a guess, they were planning on getting this new unit out as a replacement for the current premium but couldn't roll the new chipset out in time. Rather than waiting they just figured, "hey, we can sell it as a LE in black at a premium price." I don't see this as a long-term strategy for them, but we'll learn a lot more next week.
Mr Killemgood
Member
I think people are missing a few points about WHY they are releasing the elite 360.
Theres a big difference in the theory of gaming, and the price points MS has had -
Core - A video game system, and just that. Nothing flashy or dashy. Just raw power, and needs a memory card to work great, similar to PS2s and GCs. As much as everyone complains about it being the 'tard pack', I haven't seen ANY data to show that the premium is outselling the core enough to have it discontinued. I assume the sales are close to 2:1 or less of the prem:core.
Prem - Games plus major DLC content, like games and movies and such. A 20gb HD adds unlimited amounts of new gaming potential, that makes the 360 attractive to the online crowd, due to competent demos and such. Great seller, but still expensive.
Elite - Games, DLC and IPTV/Movies/Downloadable full games. Lets face it, at the beginning, the 20gb was fantastic at first, but with the movies and other things, MS has gone from a HD being nice, to being so critical for major DLC, that the HD isn't enough. The 120gb + HDMI ISN'T for gaming. It's for entertainment. MS will due this for entertainment purposes, and not just for gaming. I anticipate that when it comes out, expect some huge news about WHY we need the extra 100gigs. What if we got downloadable Xbox games like Morrowind and Halo 1/2? What about saving TV shows, and not just renting, but buying full movies at a download service? With this being very easy to do, MS needs this unit in households as a "trojan horse" of sorts, as it allows the consumer to get stuff even to the extent of TiVO.
IMO, we'll see this launch, the prices of the Prem/Core go down by a little bit (maybe $20), and when the 65nm chip, a major price drop of $75 or more. Gamers dont NEED this, but as an entertaiment device, MS needs it, as it might allow great sales IF they end up brokering alot of entertainment deals worldwide.
Theres a big difference in the theory of gaming, and the price points MS has had -
Core - A video game system, and just that. Nothing flashy or dashy. Just raw power, and needs a memory card to work great, similar to PS2s and GCs. As much as everyone complains about it being the 'tard pack', I haven't seen ANY data to show that the premium is outselling the core enough to have it discontinued. I assume the sales are close to 2:1 or less of the prem:core.
Prem - Games plus major DLC content, like games and movies and such. A 20gb HD adds unlimited amounts of new gaming potential, that makes the 360 attractive to the online crowd, due to competent demos and such. Great seller, but still expensive.
Elite - Games, DLC and IPTV/Movies/Downloadable full games. Lets face it, at the beginning, the 20gb was fantastic at first, but with the movies and other things, MS has gone from a HD being nice, to being so critical for major DLC, that the HD isn't enough. The 120gb + HDMI ISN'T for gaming. It's for entertainment. MS will due this for entertainment purposes, and not just for gaming. I anticipate that when it comes out, expect some huge news about WHY we need the extra 100gigs. What if we got downloadable Xbox games like Morrowind and Halo 1/2? What about saving TV shows, and not just renting, but buying full movies at a download service? With this being very easy to do, MS needs this unit in households as a "trojan horse" of sorts, as it allows the consumer to get stuff even to the extent of TiVO.
IMO, we'll see this launch, the prices of the Prem/Core go down by a little bit (maybe $20), and when the 65nm chip, a major price drop of $75 or more. Gamers dont NEED this, but as an entertaiment device, MS needs it, as it might allow great sales IF they end up brokering alot of entertainment deals worldwide.
Similar threads
- Poll