AlphaSnake said:Is this going to be limited like Panasonic GameCube? Hehehe.
Hur Hur Fuxed.
AlphaSnake said:Is this going to be limited like Panasonic GameCube? Hehehe.
DopeyFish said:making the black 360 limited would be beyond retarded
m0dus said:what 'firnware issue?' as in the people hacking it for piracy?
WarLox said:i'm calling it right now:
* Elite is announced for $479
* the core drops to $230
The price drop doesn't really affect MS's "bottom line" cause there isn't that many Cores out there... but people will still praise MS for "dropping the price"
****THIS FALL****
* The Premium drops to $299
*Elite drops to $399
just in time for Halo & GTA, and also causing MS to have 2 console surges before years end...
THIS.WILL.HAPPEN.
Agent Icebeezy said:THey will never support a format enough to include it. I don't know why people mention this.
LAMBO said:I still can't believe that MS is doing this. They are in the position to own the price wars against sony but instead of lowering the prices they are going to make a more expensive version.
Because of this move I really don't imagine that they will drop the price of the core and premium anytime soon(no drop in 2007). They are going to sell the premium for $300 and the elite for $480? I doubt it, no one is going to pay for the elite with that much of a difference. They should be dropping the 360 by $100, instead they're giving everyone a reason to think the ps3 isn't overpriced. So weird.
chibcicylist said:Oh yeah, where did we get this idea that they don't really mind being second place to Nintendo? That their actual top priority is not letting Sony win? It's the only explanation why there won't be a price drop this year and the price of this Elite model.
jimbo said:Who says they don't mind? But companies do not make long-term decision based on 3 months worth of sales(assuming the Wii outsells the 360 again in March).
That would be really stupid. If every time a console beats you over the course of a couple of months, you make drastic changes in your long term business model, then I think you would have a major problem. If the Wii sustains its sales over a longer period of time, and that causes the industry to shift focus, I'm sure they will respond accordingly, but right now they STILL have the lead and the 360 IS the lead platform for third parties. I don't know why people ignore this.
I don't know where this being second place to Nintendo is coming from. If in a race you're 20 laps ahead of your competition, and for the past 2 laps your closest competitor beat your time, that doesn't mean you're in second place does it?
chibcicylist said:I personally don't believe it but its been their mantra that they don't really compete with the Wii. The Xbots are also saying the same things(like a good little soldier).
jimbo said:Very, but really, after last month's NPD, do you think they really need a price drop?
Price drops are used to pull away from competition, but if they're already doubling the sales of the PS3....what's the use?
The only reason they should be doing this right now is to go after the Wii, but either they are not concerned with it right now or....awe f*** I don't know. I am stumped too.
.
LAMBO said:They don't need it, but why not beat sony's numbers even more, and as you say, go after the wii a little. Why wait for ps3 and wii to get cheaper? The 360 came out a year before the competiton to grab the market, shouldn't the first price drop be a year before the competition to keep grabbing the market?
jimbo said:A number of reasons why.
1. They may lose money.
2. They lose the advantage of being able to respond not to mention the "thunder". If Sony reacts with a price drop of their own they will steal MS's thunder...(I think this happened last generation as well). Why lose the advantage of FORCING your competitor to make the first move?
3. Media: "Microsoft releases more expensive Xbox 360. Sales double!"
4. Loss of flexibility. Say they drop the price now. Then Sony does something crazy and the PS3 takes off. How will they counter that if they've already dropped the price?
I keep saying this but it falls on def years. It's not as simple as " Wii outsold us last month, we need a price drop next month!" That's reacting to the moves of your competition. Not thinking. Not planning. You are no longer in control. If you ever had a chance to listen to some of the best salespeople in the world, they will tell you the #1 problem most salespeople have is they react, and not think.
What we're seeing from the outside is really a small fraction of what's going on inside these companies. I don't know what goes on, but I know it's a lot more complex than just simply dropping the price in reaction to what it's happening right now, and not considering what can happen tomorrow.
I am just an account executive, but even when I go to see one of my clients over an account as small as $200 I have an A, B, C and even D plan. I have to believe MS, a billion dollar company does the same. Their plans probably span the entire alphabet.
True. Historically, price drops have been used less as a competitive weapon and more to boost sales when they slow down at a given price point. The 360 is selling better this year than last, at the same price. Why drop in price when sales are going up? (And yes - supply constrained last year.)FirstInHell said:This is the most compelling argument anyone has given against a price drop. Nice job.
They are outselling the PS3 right now and they are still cheaper than the PS3. Why should they drop it at this point? They should save the price drop like a "Get Out of Jail Free" card in case Sony does something crazy.
GhaleonEB said:True. Historically, price drops have been used less as a competitive weapon and more to boost sales when they slow down at a given price point. The 360 is selling better this year than last, at the same price. Why drop in price when sales are going up? (And yes - supply constrained last year.)
FirstInHell said:This is the most compelling argument anyone has given against a price drop. Nice job.
They are outselling the PS3 right now and they are still cheaper than the PS3. Why should they drop it at this point? They should save the price drop like a "Get Out of Jail Free" card in case Sony does something crazy.
Kolgar said:Who'd have guessed that more than two years into this $399 console's life, we'd still be waiting for the first price drop? Even more astounding, that there's still no real compelling reason for MS to do so?
Quite the turnaround in fortunes there, MS. Now stop raping us with your online policies and all will be well.
Mrbob said:Well, in the USA of course there is no reason to do so. Sales in Europe are nearly half of what they are in the USA, so I think it would be in MS best interest to get a price drop soon . And this would take effect worldwide (Except japan where 360 is like 280 bucks anyway).
We all know MS is trying to make money on the hardware anyway. And rumors suggest they are currently profiting off the premium system. I have a feeling we won't see the premium at $299.99 until MS can make sure the entire package costs them less than 300 to produce.
Kolgar said:Who'd have guessed that more than two years into this $399 console's life, we'd still be waiting for the first price drop? Even more astounding, that there's still no real compelling reason for MS to do so?
Quite the turnaround in fortunes there, MS. Now stop raping us with your online policies and all will be well.
Who'd have guessed that more than two years into this $399 console's life, we'd still be waiting for the first price drop?
It will happen this year. I think the only question is, will they hold out until the fall, or drop earlier in the year? I'm still kind of expecting a drop when Mass Effect ships, in summer, to boost sales throughout the year.gollumsluvslave said:?? November 2005 launch for 360 means it's been on the market for a year and 5 months...
There most definitley will be a price drop before Halo 3 and GTAIV, or Microsoft are plain stupid.
RumpledForeskin said:When you look at it in the grand scale I think MS is releasing this model so when fall comes they can drop down the price of the premium while still retaining a system at $399 for maximum profit. So in essence we will see a price drop if the current premium at $399 drops this fall to $299 and the Elite takes the place of the current premium. More and more that $299 core system is looking like it was brillint decision by MS to maximise profits. They can easily lower prices to make the consumer feel as if there getting more for less while shaving little off there current prices. No question Nintendo and Sony may be backed into a corner to price drop sooner than later.
GhaleonEB said:True. Historically, price drops have been used less as a competitive weapon and more to boost sales when they slow down at a given price point. The 360 is selling better this year than last, at the same price. Why drop in price when sales are going up? (And yes - supply constrained last year.)
Odysseus said:because they want ps2-type dominance and not just "at least it's better than ps3"-type mediocrity.
and wii is still there grabbing marketshare.
jimbo said:I'm sure they do, but is that possible? PS2-type dominance doesn't seem to be possible this generation.
Odysseus said:it's possible for microsoft to approach it on the western front, at least, but it won't happen the longer they keep the top-tier price of the 360 at or above $400. there's blood in the water, microsoft would be smart to pounce now or risk allowing nintendo to erode the lead further and sony to regroup a bit, if that's even possible.
jimbo said:That's a valid point as well. And you would think the logical move.
Like I said, I am stumped on why they are going this route, but if we can see the logical move, I'm sure they do too. If they're going another route, you would think they have a damn good reason.
I do think there are causing a lot of people to sit on the fence right now though, because so many people are waiting for the expected price drop. Even if they don't do a price drop, an announcement that they won't do that would probably increase their sales.
Odysseus said:i think it's just a matter of the fact that there's two things at work. people don't want to spend $400 on a game console in mass quantities, which is a reason why xbox 360 sales are merely solid and not spectacular. at the same time, people don't want to feel like they have settled for less, which makes the $300 core a non-factor. even if what some suggest is true, that the 120gb model became the new premium at $400 after the initial limited run of elite, i think what would happen is that sales of the current premium would sag and overall sales would remain flat. people want cheap without feeling cheap.
it's too early to bring a new permanent sku to the market. bring down the price, go for a position of dominance, and once you are entrenched as the market leader, then introduce new options if you wish. hdmi, good. larger hdd, fine. but not at the expense of a top-line price drop.
jimbo said:Right, so then why are they doing it?
That's the part that I want to know.
Odysseus said:they're mildly retarded?
actually, i don't think they expected sony to start out this poorly in 2007. i think they planned to introduce a new sku to compete with what they thought would be an initially successful ps3, and it hasn't happened so far. consumers are rejecting high priced consoles, and i don't think microsoft expected it to this degree. they had plans, but i think the new data should make them do a rewrite.
that, or the raging hard-on for ipod's business model is more severe than anyone knew. and it's a model i just don't think will fly in gaming.
jimbo said:Very, but really, after last month's NPD, do you think they really need a price drop?
Price drops are used to pull away from competition, but if they're already doubling the sales of the PS3....what's the use?
The only reason they should be doing this right now is to go after the Wii, but either they are not concerned with it right now or....awe f*** I don't know. I am stumped too.
I just wish it comes with a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drive. That's the only way I'll pay extra money to buy one. Otherwise they can keep it since they made it possible for me to get 1080p over compononet - VT3 looks sick on my 1080p Sharp.
MaX_PL said:jimbo why cant you understand that they wont include a combo drive?
whats the point of including a drive with both formats when one format is bound to be the winner?
Also, 100GB of extra HDD space. Still not nearly enough to justify $180. For the people holding out for a 360, it's either a price drop or software that will get them to buy it. Not a more expensive SKU with a lower value:cost ratio. I think Odysseus might be right - MS was prepping an ultra-premium SKU to go head to head with the PS3, expecting a battle on that front (for some batshit insane reason).jimbo said:I can see your first point(no not the part about them being retarded) but why still go on and release it? I mean they've had months since reports of the PS3's sales not being up to expectations.
I don't think we have the entire picture. I think there's more to this system than meets the eye. Especially if you assume a price drop of the premium unit. That would mean you have a $299 Premium and a $479 Elite with the only difference being black and HDMI? Who would buy that? Who would pay an extra $179 for a color and HDMI, especially when you can get 1080p over component?
I mean really, so far all of MS's moves have been tactical and very smart, that I can't just toss this one to them losing brain cells.
Either there's more to this SKU than meets the eye, or it's not going to be priced at $479(if all it has is black and HDMI).
Odysseus said:i think it's just a matter of the fact that there's two things at work. people don't want to spend $400 on a game console in mass quantities, which is a reason why xbox 360 sales are merely solid and not spectacular. at the same time, people don't want to feel like they have settled for less, which makes the $300 core a non-factor. even if what some suggest is true, that the 120gb model became the new premium at $400 after the initial limited run of elite, i think what would happen is that sales of the current premium would sag and overall sales would remain flat. people want cheap without feeling cheap.
it's too early to bring a new permanent sku to the market. bring down the price, go for a position of dominance, and once you are entrenched as the market leader, then introduce new options if you wish. hdmi, good. larger hdd, fine. but not at the expense of a top-line price drop.
The Premium has been outselling the Core by ~10:1. In February the Core was ~10% of sales.Mr Killemgood said:I think people are missing a few points about WHY they are releasing the elite 360.
Theres a big difference in the theory of gaming, and the price points MS has had -
Core - A video game system, and just that. Nothing flashy or dashy. Just raw power, and needs a memory card to work great, similar to PS2s and GCs. As much as everyone complains about it being the 'tard pack', I haven't seen ANY data to show that the premium is outselling the core enough to have it discontinued. I assume the sales are close to 2:1 or less of the prem:core.
Prem - Games plus major DLC content, like games and movies and such. A 20gb HD adds unlimited amounts of new gaming potential, that makes the 360 attractive to the online crowd, due to competent demos and such. Great seller, but still expensive.