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Official Suikoden Tierkreis Thread: "The Deepest Handheld RPG of All Time"

GDJustin said:
For all the NON INSANE Suikoden fans out there, Suikoden = a typical RPG with 108 recruitable characters and a sweet expanding castle/home base. These are the franchise's defining characteristics.

No one but you crazies cares about the weapon sharpening, the bath houses, the magic system.

And I'm a big, BIG Suikoden fan.

I grok that different aspects of Suikoden appeal to different people. And I too am sad that Tierkreis's storyline is less political. But your replies are laughable. If you ask a casual fan about Suikoden, I promise you their response would be "that's the game with dozens of potential party members, right?"
I must be insane then, because the defining characteristics of the Suikoden series is much more to me than just the concept of recruiting 108 stars. I have always thought the most important part of the series is the connecting story lines, characters, etc.

And things like the individual weapons, Runes, baths, etc. all just help add to the unique feeling of the game. Tierkreis is lacking many elements that are found in most Suikoden games. Does that make it a bad game? No. But it does disappoint the hard core Suikoden fan that hoped for a game that contained the things that made me a fan in the first place.

I'm nearing the end of Tierkreis right now and I am still enjoying it, I just hope this is not the direction the series as a whole is heading.
 
Duck Amuck said:
btw guys, Suikoden VI is so totally going to be on wii after reading this crap.
I thought of the same thing. Previously, I doubted the possibility of Suikoden VI, not now. I think it would be something like Tierkreis though.
GDJustin said:
Oh Christ.

For all the NON INSANE Suikoden fans out there, Suikoden = a typical RPG with 108 recruitable characters and a sweet expanding castle/home base. These are the franchise's defining characteristics.

No one but you crazies cares about the weapon sharpening, the bath houses, the magic system.

And I'm a big, BIG Suikoden fan.

I grok that different aspects of Suikoden appeal to different people. And I too am sad that Tierkreis's storyline is less political. But your replies are laughable. If you ask a casual fan about Suikoden, I promise you their response would be "that's the game with dozens of potential party members, right?"

Calling us insane doesn't necessarily mean that your follow-up statement is correct. And your proof of example, that you're a big, BIG Suikoden fan, doesn't cut it either.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Duck Amuck said:
Maybe I am early in but I have not recruited anyone yet that didn't take take place in the story. Yes, it has 108 characters but so far, not many optional ones.

At about ~10-12 hours the world opens up a little and there are lots of opportunities to go out of your way to recruit.

I would say the ratio of "auto-join / easy to find / hard to find" recruits is the same as previous Suikodens.
 
Himu, look...

richmondtyrol.jpg
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Oh, I definitely don't have as much Suikoden street cred as you guys. I own all of the domestic releases, but have only played through most of 1, 2, and some of Tactics.
I plan on hitting up the PS2 generation of Suikos once I wrap up my portable versions (1, 2, and SuikoT).

As far as my earlier comment of it having enough Suiko mechanics to justify the name, I only meant as to how the combat and party systems work, how the weapons work, the 108 Stars of Destiny bit, etc. I understand it also has at least some of the political story overtones as the earlier games, if not as much, and a castle system.

As much of a departure as it represents from the mainline games, I believe it shares more in common with the core (and admittedly much more distinct) Suiko series than quite a few other franchise-based spinoffs (such as certain FF, DQ, Mario games, etc.)

Edit - and worry not, I'll earn my Suiko fan badge in due time. :)
 
Mejilan said:
Oh, I definitely don't have as much Suikoden street cred as you guys. I own all of the domestic releases, but have only played through most of 1, 2, and some of Tactics.
I plan on hitting up the PS2 generation of Suikos once I wrap up my portable versions (1, 2, and SuikoT).

As far as my earlier comment of it having enough Suiko mechanics to justify the name, I only meant as to how the combat and party systems work, how the weapons work, the 108 Stars of Destiny bit, etc. I understand it also has at least some of the political story overtones as the earlier games, if not as much, and a castle system.

As much of a departure as it represents from the mainline games, I believe it shares more in common with the core (and admittedly much more distinct) Suiko series than quite a few other franchise-based spinoffs (such as certain FF, DQ, Mario games, etc.)

Edit - and worry not, I'll earn my Suiko fan badge in due time. :)

Need more people with badges! :D I remember playing Suiko I and II in near succession back in 1999 when I was just 8. And when there's a new Suikoden (III, IV and V), I play all of the previous games again before starting the most recent one. :lol
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
I've had a good grip on I, and II for years, despite never finishing them. Tactics is also a thoroughly decent SRPG, but clearly different. I'm most curious about III and V, the former for it's Trinity Unity system, and the latter for its implementation of more classic elements. I understand that IV is the one that probably gets the most hate. I still plan on tackling all of them in order.
 
Mejilan said:
As far as my earlier comment of it having enough Suiko mechanics to justify the name, I only meant as to how the combat and party systems work, how the weapons work, the 108 Stars of Destiny bit, etc. I understand it also has at least some of the political story overtones as the earlier games, if not as much, and a castle system.

Maybe I'm not getting you here, but are you saying that the weapon mechanics are similar to those in the past? Because they're not. At all. The political intrigue in this outing is also pretty paltry compared to previous entries in the series. I wouldn't even say that combat is similar in this entries when compared to previous ones as magic is too easily available and pretty goddamn overpowered. The only traditional elements I see in this game are a castle and 108 characters. Not enough for me to call it a Suikoden, but I still don't see it as a bad game. If Square is allowed to pimp the FF name, then Konami can pimp this one. I just hope the next canonical entry is closer to the series roots.
 
Mejilan said:
I've had a good grip on I, and II for years, despite never finishing them. Tactics is also a thoroughly decent SRPG, but clearly different. I'm most curious about III and V, the former for it's Trinity Unity system, and the latter for its implementation of more classic elements. I understand that IV is the one that probably gets the most hate. I still plan on tackling all of them in order.

If I didn't like Sigurd, I wouldn't have replayed IV. The Trinity System is nice but my qualm is that I can't use certain SoD that I could have if it doesn't utilize the trinity system. V is awesome. Too many good scenes and twists. And why have you forsaken your clothes, Jeane? Are your runes too heavy?
 
I just finished this a few days ago, and overall I really enjoyed it.

I've been a Suikoden fanboy since I and have played every game since, and I fall into that category that thought IV sucked and II was the best (followed closely by III). So going into Tierkreis and hearing a lot of complaints about it not feeling like a Suikoden game had me worried. But by the end, I think I can easily say this does feel like one, even if it's missing a few staple elements.

Story: While not filled with as many shades of gray as past Suikoden games, the story in Tierkreis was still one of the more enjoyable ones in recent memory. There are some low points, but the ideas put forward, some of the plot twists and many of the characters made for an enjoyable experience. The bad guys still have more complex motives than most RPGs and some of the bad guys turn out not even to be that bad after all in the end. The game as a whole does feel a little more lighthearted than others, but there's some pretty heavy stuff mixed in as well. Perhaps people feel it's not a Suikoden game simply because it takes place in another world, but I think Konami did a good job of creating this new world and coming up with some interesting concepts to explore.

Music: Nothing mind blowing, but the music also had the Suikoden flavor to it. Esp. in the war room scenes. In many places the music was very good and I was satisfied with it, though I wouldn't be seeking out an OST.

Gameplay: Maybe that would be my biggest gripe about the game. The game is fun and I still hold to it feeling like Suikoden game in this regard, even with the missing stuff. You get a castle, you collect the 108 stars, and though altered the dynamics of your HQ still feel much the same. The mission system really worked well I thought and essentially replaced the role of the detective (by sending team members out, you can find interesting backstory tidbits about your recruits) and it provided nice, quick bursts of gameplay for when I didn't want to move the main story forward. Even the weapon system was fine by me, though overall I do prefer to blacksmith, and the Mark of the Stars don't replace runes in my heart, but they essentially work the same way...except with less customization (since every character has a pre-determined set of skills). Where the gameplay really falls apart is the battle system and the dungeon design. The dungeons, plain and simple, were boring and more of a chore to complete than anything. Aside from a few, they were alll just long, winding corridors with lots of dead ends. Add to that a high encounter rate and I don't think I've run from more battles in any game. Suikoden games have always been on the easy side, but this one was just way too much of a cakewalk. When not running from battles, I was just auto-battling it through the game...even on many of the bosses. I think I killed the majority of bosses in 2-3 rounds max (including the final) and I'm pretty sure I wasn't overleveled. Even with my complaints, I had a lot of fun with the game as a whole so I don't think these aspects ruin the game by any means.

Graphics: It's a great looking game, esp. considering it's on the DS. The 3d character models look like ass, but the background art and the settings are great. Also, I thought the character designs were all really good. I always look forward to seeing how all the 108 look and I thought the designs for this cast were on par with the best.

Anyway, not really a proper review there but just some random thoughts. It's not Suikoden IV by any means, but Tierkreis IS a Suikoden game and it felt like one to me. So overall I was satisfied and enjoyed the experience a lot. If I had to rate it, I'd probably give it an 8/10 . For reference, I'd rank the games like this:

II>III>V>I>/=Tierkreis>Tactics>>>IV
 

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Its weird that the voice acting pronounces some of the voices way differently than they look on paper! It always throws me off, where do they get these pronunciations from? Haha, ever noticed how every now and then they pronounce the character names differently too? Funny stuff

Still, something about this game... I don't know what it is, but it's fun. I like it.
(Completed every game in the series except 4/5, which I skipped)
 
yea, it seems they couldnt make up their mind about how the names actually sound. thats some bad direction there.

also, some of the voice acting sounds like its been fast-forwarded, particularly the hero.
 

Wilsongt

Member
John Harker said:
Its weird that the voice acting pronounces some of the voices way differently than they look on paper! It always throws me off, where do they get these pronunciations from? Haha, ever noticed how every now and then they pronounce the character names differently too? Funny stuff

Still, something about this game... I don't know what it is, but it's fun. I like it.
(Completed every game in the series except 4/5, which I skipped)


It seems like they didn't translate some names, but are saying it in the American way.

Meruvis = Melvis
Kureya = Clair
Rizwan = Lizlan
 

Forkball

Member
I'm probably going to pick it up this weekend. I couldn't decide between this game and DQ V, and I could use that extra $5 for a sandwich so...

Just curious, is this game like every Suikoden game where you can miss out on recruiting some of the characters? I hate that and don't know why they won't change it. Any other pre-game advice?
 

Captain N

Junior Member
sorry if this has been answered, but it seems you level up every 1,000exp. Does it stay that way from level 1 to 100?
 
I love this game (well playing it in short bursts, the battles always leave something to crave for and sometimes carry a lifeless tone to them, they should have put battle voices, but it just reminds me of good ole Golden Sun, but Suikoden is less fast paced).

Im just at the end of finally meeting the people known as the Archivists, CAN I just say how rediculous it is that the group that is after my party is a group of librarians who collect rare books, lol. I nearly laughed out loud at the thought of them being archivists, lol.

Macuote has the greatest voice actor I think. lol. Fun game, and this was my first foray into suikoden.
 
Duck Amuck said:
The best character in IV is obviously Lino en Kuldes.
I like Lino en Kuldes if
he doesn't have a hidden child stuck somewhere amidst your ranks
. Sigurd is still the best. And so is Eleanor.

Captain N said:
sorry if this has been answered, but it seems you level up every 1,000exp. Does it stay that way from level 1 to 100?
Yup. You level up every 1k exp. The exp you gain from enemies is dependent on the difference of your level from your enemy's.
 
Dedication Through Light said:
Im just at the end of finally meeting the people known as the Archivists, CAN I just say how rediculous it is that the group that is after my party is a group of librarians who collect rare books, lol. I nearly laughed out loud at the thought of them being archivists, lol.
n.

You obviously haven't met many librarians... they're pretty nasty, especially when you don't return your books.

and these are more like a cross between nuns and librarians... which is pretty hardcore. :lol

I am enjoying this game quite a bit, but I'm only around 9 and a half hours in. I keep reading that it gets better, but the pacing has been pretty good so far.. definitely feels faster than the average suikoden story.

Also, I think the hero is just impatient by nature, so he speaks quickly on purpose.. but rather than have the voice actor speak quickly, they just sped up his voice samples, so it sounds off.
 
Ok, so Ive been playing for a few hours, and my biggest fear has been put to rest. The battles are very much traditional suikoden as far as speed and flow! My only complaint is that when an enemy jumps at you, and your character dodges, its sometimes hard to tell. At times I have to look at my HP gauge to tell who hit who exactly, but its ok. Seems that the rune system is back to, which is a plus. Overall, Im having fun with it....go suikoden ds!!!

That is all for now.
 

MotherFan

Member
I picked this up today and it most defiantly feels like a suikoden. I really hate the VA atm (it feels like I put my DVD player on 1.5 speed) but the battles have the suikoden feel and have the nice combination attacks. The spell system is not traditional suikoden, but since this is not a mainline numbered game, that is ok. Coupled with the fact it is set in another world even makes sense.

When I get my HQ I will comment more on that, but from what I am seeing in the posts so far is that it is basically the same as the others, with some functionality removed. Again, this is a handheld so by me it is ok.

I think most of the complaints stem from the fact it is set in another world (be interesting to see the world some of those demons get summoned from though, I wonder what the physics/rules are for that one, and I bet true gate can interact with all the worlds?), no blacksmith (this one does make me sad) and no typical rune magic. This would be unacceptable in a true numbered Suikoden (minus being set in another world, they could take an interesting route) but it is not one that should be a deal breaker for a spinoff. I think people are just complaining to complain, especially after the gem we got in 5. Or maybe, its complaining cause we don't have 6 announced yet.

Hopefully 6 will be coming soon. And, before people complain and argue about HD graphics for 6, Suikoden is not built on production values. So, we do not know where it will go and should be happy with any system it goes on (minus the iphone).
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
21 hours in, just encountered my first Game Over, and it was due to a bug. (Although the game might be working "as designed," if the design is retarded).

Hero was in a party by himself. I accepted the hero quest "Order Soldiers in the Plains." Roberto, the Icas assassin dude, and the butch woman from the plains all joined me (in story sequences) to go fight the soldiers.

So I get there, there's some more talking, and the four of us rush the soldiers. Flash. Battle begins. Hero is in the battle BY HIMSELF. The other three aren't in the party -_-

So I beat these three order conscripts. Once the fight ends, there's some more talking, and I'm left in the field. Again, in a party by myself. The game won't let me retreat to town. I have no choice but to continue forward and keep fight. I defeat the 2nd group of order soldiers ALONE, but the third finally does me in.

From the MOMENT I accepted the quest, I never once had an opportunity to touch my party. I was whisked directly into battle. So apparently, if I would have had a party, they would have been the ones to fight with me, and not the three that "joined" me in the story sequence? Makes no sense.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
Is it just me or am I the only one who feels that there a lot of optional characters to recruit? I've got 4 left to go yet my partner's sister who is at the same stage as me still has some 30-40odd characters to go.
 
speedpop said:
Is it just me or am I the only one who feels that there a lot of optional characters to recruit? I've got 4 left to go yet my partner's sister who is at the same stage as me still has some 30-40odd characters to go.
The Suikoden series has high optional recruit ratios. All of them are well over half.

As for Tierkreis, 39 of 108 are required which is the third lowest in the series. (Only counting games that contain the 108 stars.)

Other required recruit amounts for reference:
Suikoden = 45
Suikoden II = 35
Suikoden III = 48
Suikoden IV = 34
Suikoden V = 43
 

Javaman

Member
Captain N said:
sorry if this has been answered, but it seems you level up every 1,000exp. Does it stay that way from level 1 to 100?


That's one thing I love about the Suikoden games. It's a lot easier to "normalize" the characters' levels and experience.
 
around the 10 hour mark and im beggining to dig the game alot more. sure, i might never get used to the low-tech battle models, but the music is fantastic and worthy of a suikoden title. a pity so many features are missing though. like the blacksmith and large battles + runes.

yea, this could have been much more.
 

MotherFan

Member
Augemitbutter said:
around the 10 hour mark and im beggining to dig the game alot more. sure, i might never get used to the low-tech battle models, but the music is fantastic and worthy of a suikoden title. a pity so many features are missing though. like the blacksmith and large battles + runes.

yea, this could have been much more.

The backgrounds more than make up for the crappy models though. The environments are beautiful.
 
the backgrounds are indeed nice.

im well aware the models are mainly crippled by the glorious (ugh) DS-quality. so not everything is konamis fault.
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. I just found out I missed two characters permanently. I guess I'll just stop worrying about the rest of them and finish the game now.

Seriously? A character recruitable through a random event, dependent on having a particular character in your party AND with a point-of-no-return? Yeah. Fuckin' awesome.
 

MotherFan

Member
aidan said:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. I just found out I missed two characters permanently. I guess I'll just stop worrying about the rest of them and finish the game now.

Seriously? A character recruitable through a random event, dependent on having a particular character in your party AND with a point-of-no-return? Yeah. Fuckin' awesome.
That is Suikoden
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
MotherFan said:
That is Suikoden

I'm well versed in the Suikoden games. It's still a piss off every time, though.

Still, absolutely loving Tierkreis. Very surprised at how well it holds up to the Suikoden name, despite the changes made and the stand-alone story.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
GDJustin said:
21 hours in, just encountered my first Game Over, and it was due to a bug. (Although the game might be working "as designed," if the design is retarded).

Hero was in a party by himself. I accepted the hero quest "Order Soldiers in the Plains." Roberto, the Icas assassin dude, and the butch woman from the plains all joined me (in story sequences) to go fight the soldiers.

So I get there, there's some more talking, and the four of us rush the soldiers. Flash. Battle begins. Hero is in the battle BY HIMSELF. The other three aren't in the party -_-

So I beat these three order conscripts. Once the fight ends, there's some more talking, and I'm left in the field. Again, in a party by myself. The game won't let me retreat to town. I have no choice but to continue forward and keep fight. I defeat the 2nd group of order soldiers ALONE, but the third finally does me in.

From the MOMENT I accepted the quest, I never once had an opportunity to touch my party. I was whisked directly into battle. So apparently, if I would have had a party, they would have been the ones to fight with me, and not the three that "joined" me in the story sequence? Makes no sense.

This experience ended up killing the game, for me. I hadn't saved in a little while, when it happened. It's going back into the GameFly case :\

Game wasn't awful, but it wasn't as good as the main franchise entries. I might type up more complete impressions of my 21 hours later.
 
MotherFan said:
I think most of the complaints stem from the fact it is set in another world (be interesting to see the world some of those demons get summoned from though, I wonder what the physics/rules are for that one, and I bet true gate can interact with all the worlds?), no blacksmith (this one does make me sad) and no typical rune magic. This would be unacceptable in a true numbered Suikoden (minus being set in another world, they could take an interesting route) but it is not one that should be a deal breaker for a spinoff. I think people are just complaining to complain, especially after the gem we got in 5. Or maybe, its complaining cause we don't have 6 announced yet.

Hopefully 6 will be coming soon. And, before people complain and argue about HD graphics for 6, Suikoden is not built on production values. So, we do not know where it will go and should be happy with any system it goes on (minus the iphone).
Please refer to Konami interviews.
 

Ricker

Member
Finally bought the game yesterday,even though it's 50 bucks up here in Canada...the game was getting harder and harder to find around here so when I saw the last copy at Best Buy,I gave in and picked it up...so far,only about 2 hours in,I'm glad I did.If the rest of the game gets better then the start,it might be my favorite RPG in a while,even though so far it's pretty damn easy.I love the art style,the music,the fast gameplay,the characters,dialogue,even the voice acting is great...just one thing though,why am I talking so fast lol(even that adds to the charm and quickness of the game I think)...for some reason,it reminds of Jeanne D'Arc except it's a regular RPG instead of SRPG...great DS game.
 

kaizoku

I'm not as deluded as I make myself out to be
looks good this, I need a game to get me back into the DS scene, not played it properly for months. I worry my battery will be shot now as its just sat on my shelf doing nothing :(

any tips or advice for a first time Suikoden player? I worry that the old games in the series are notoriously hard to find or not very good - should we be trying to track them down as well?

(my ocd coming out there, when I play a series I feel like I need to experience it all inside out, never works out that way and I end up abandoning or ignoring it altogether!)
 

Wilsongt

Member
GDJustin said:
This experience ended up killing the game, for me. I hadn't saved in a little while, when it happened. It's going back into the GameFly case :\

Game wasn't awful, but it wasn't as good as the main franchise entries. I might type up more complete impressions of my 21 hours later.


Same thing happened to me. But you have to realize that when the game says "Joins as a companion", then they aren't a part of the party. But, yeah. I still managed to slaughter the enemy with just the MC alone. I had to heal every other turn with medicine, but it wasn't that difficult.
 

Forkball

Member
I'm about an hour and a half in. I'm enjoying it so far, although it's pretty basic. This game is absolutely gorgeous, there is an amazing amount of detail to the environments. The voice acting is pretty hilarious though. What were they thinking when they were recording this? I like to play a game during the conversations: can I hit A fast enough to skip the main character's dialogue, or will he say his part before it switches over to the next person? He beats me a surprising amount of times.
 

Mileena

Banned
So I'm going on a plane ride and need to get a DS game to keep me occupied. This game or FF3 DS? I've played Suikoden on PS1 and loved it if that influences my decision at all.
 

linkboy

Member
corkscrewblow said:
So I'm going on a plane ride and need to get a DS game to keep me occupied. This game or FF3 DS? I've played Suikoden on PS1 and loved it if that influences my decision at all.

While both are good, I say go with Suikoden.

Its an absolute gem of a game and well worthy of the Suikoden name.

As for VI, I don't care what system it comes out on, I just want it. If its anywhere as near as good of a game as V was, I'll be happy.
 
corkscrewblow said:
So I'm going on a plane ride and need to get a DS game to keep me occupied. This game or FF3 DS? I've played Suikoden on PS1 and loved it if that influences my decision at all.
In my opinion, FFIV > Tierkreis > FFIII.
 
corkscrewblow said:
So I'm going on a plane ride and need to get a DS game to keep me occupied. This game or FF3 DS? I've played Suikoden on PS1 and loved it if that influences my decision at all.
Buy Tierkreis.
 
corkscrewblow said:
So I'm going on a plane ride and need to get a DS game to keep me occupied. This game or FF3 DS? I've played Suikoden on PS1 and loved it if that influences my decision at all.

tierkreis is way better. go get it.
 
ugh, that stupid snow.....


queen quest had me running around aimlessly for an hour in that mountain area. who would've expected you had to open up a conversation with the mountain geezer IN your castle and NOT bring him to meet her. random encounters in this game can be so fooking dull =(
 

tenritsu

Banned
I'm near the end of the game and am at 50 hours... No walkthroughs or anything.

And I've loved every minute... except maybe the first 10 when I didn't know if I liked it or not :D

Do I recommend people play it? Absolutely.
 
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