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Overwatch |OT10| That'll do pig, that'll do

V

Veelk

Banned
The last 8 matches I had in QP were such a fucking joke. All I want to do is practice Genji. I got him for 2 of them. In all of them, my team was missing a healer or a tanks. In all of them, the other team was competently picked.

How does this goddamn happen?! Why is my team always the one that's fucked?

Edit: And why the fuck am I the only one who ever bothers to look for the shield generator. Even if I'm not a mobile character. Goddammit, quickplay is horse ass.
 
N

Nuno Pinto

Member
Veelk said:
I'm not a particularly high tier, and I never see him in comp. And I could probably count the number of effective Junkrats I've seen on one hand. He's slow and his hitbox is fairly large for such a skinny dude and his mine isn't practical as an escape option. Most importantly, his projectile speed is slow enough his shots are arguably the easiest to dodge. He has his very niche uses, I agree, but I don't think there's any character in the game I wouldn't feel fairly confident taking him out with on average. He's pretty weak right now imo. At the very least, he's nowhere near as good at area denial as other characters are at area control.



Um....no? Not unless the player placing them is just throwing them out randomly themselves, but that's improper usage. I tend to place them right next to choke points or off to the side in popular fighting areas. It's about trying to find a middleground of a place where enemies are likely to be, being likely to follow through on the trap and places where it won't be spotted by enemies. The problem is that a single trap covers a very tiny area of any map. Given that the trap is little more than an annoyance unless you follow through on the kill, having more of them seems like a sensible buff to me. Hell, I'd be willing to take some damage off it in exchange, if that's the issue, even though it only does 80 already.

On the enemy's side, traps are visible in all maps, though some more than others. They have a set of jagged teeth sticking out of the ground. So it's up to the player to be aware of their surroundings and spot those teeth. Once you see it, you know that you either have to destroy it or that area is a no-go area, depending on circumstance. With the way the maps are designed, rarely will you ever be truly trapped with no options.

They can be annoying as hell, yeah, because some characters (like Tracer and Genji) are meant to move fast through an area, so they are going to be more susceptible to running into them. But all other characters have a reasonable chance of spotting them before they become an issue. Plus there are abilities that still let people protect themselves in some way. Orisa can Fortify and walk through it or put up a shield, as can Reinhardt and Winston, D.Va can DM, Genji can reflect, Mei and Symmetra can wall, etc.

And failing all of that, every characters can still primary fire and use offensive abilities, so everyone will always have a chance of just outfighting the enemy. So it's definitely not random, and I don't see how it would be gamebreaking either.

Edit: Also, Junkrat can't throw them very far. So whereever he leaves them, he has to physically go be at that location. So if you win a team fight, you're not gonna have to worry about them being in good areas again until the enemy retakes the point and Junkrat has time to set them all up again. And he won't set them up at all if you manage to kill him in the team fight and he has to run back. It's like Torb's turret, the less time he has to set the traps up, the less of a problem they are.



Sombra EMP would have slaughtered them just as easily, or even Hanzo's dragons or a Tracer bomb, or Mei Blizzard, or Grav. Hell, you probably could have Zenyatta ulted and just rushed it, they wouldn't have been able to kill you. If you waited for Orisa's barrier wall to go on cool down, you could have shot D.Va's ult in there and they wouldn't be able to do anything about it. It's hard to think of a team comp that couldn't have broken them apart with them clumped together like that. Doomfist too if he was out now.
Click to expand...

I see him all the time unfortunately, whenever someone instalocks junkrat on attack you can forget about the game because there's always a hanzo/widow that will follow because they consider that the junk player is "throwing". Can't blame them honestly, too many bad experiences.

Like I said he has some good maps and I wish I could play him more because he can be a lot of fun. He's very strong in small spaces, you don't want to push a junkrat there. Out in the open he's obviously weaker.

I'm fine with the way he is now honestly.

LiK said:
Hey ND, our 6-man stack Anubis stomp from that night.

https://youtu.be/AsS4uH4LX4o
Click to expand...

Nice, it was a easy win.

The other team was not good. When the team you are facing goes pharah during the whole first round you don't start a defense with mei/reaper...
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
Veelk said:
That's uh....sounding like something like a slippery slope. I'm not suggesting that, I'm just suggesting that he has an ability he can use in the midst of battle better.

Edit: that feeling when you team sucks so fucking bad that you have to dive to take out their shield generator....as Torb.
Click to expand...
Oh my bad I was tired and thought you were talking about rip tire.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
Nuno Pinto said:
I see him all the time unfortunately, whenever someone instalocks junkrat on attack you can forget about the game because there's always a hanzo/widow that will follow because they consider that the junk player is "throwing". Can't blame them honestly, too many bad experiences.

Like I said he has some good maps and I wish I could play him more because he can be a lot of fun. He's very strong in small spaces, you don't want to push a junkrat there. Out in the open he's obviously weaker.

I'm fine with the way he is now honestly.
Click to expand...

Well, there is a reason why people assume Junkrat means the person is throwing. Because he is really not a very good character in the vast majority of cases. He's an area denier up against characters who are much better at capturing an area than he is at denying them. He's better in small spaces, but even there I would be more terrified of a reaper, tracer, Reinhardt or many other heroes than a Junkrat.

That's why the trap buff is one of the best buffs he can get. The ability itself isn't that much of an issue to play around, but it gives him more of a chance to do the thing he is meant to do.

To me, it makes sense.
 
M

Mr Git

Member
I dunno, I've seen enough very good Junkrats to make me think he's fine as he is, just hard to master. I suppose the problem is there's just more rubbish Junkrats, although no character choice should be inherently deemed as throwing - bit of a shame if he's got that stigma. I like him but I'm shite with him.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
Fixed2BeBroken said:
Taking away people's ults isnt going to magically make them mechanically more sound.

A team that keeps getting wiped who may have a chance of turning the tide with a game changing ult, instead just keeps getting wiped if ults reset.
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That sounds like you're more in favour of snowballing in the form of landsliding one way or another. Encounters often aren't just complete wipes of one group and another, this means that both sides suffer resets, but it places more intent on how you use the resource and how you manage it given that it can be wiped. Maybe the enemy team is playing super defensively, you manage to kill the Zenyatta, but they have another healer picking up the slack -- you manage to push in a minute later, but by then the Zen has returned and invalidated the efforts through ult, as a hypothetical. Or you ever get those moments where you kill a Genji in the moments pulling his dragonblade, only for him to just use it the moment he returns anyway? It would add some more nuance to things and would possibly stop things from getting so immediately rote.
 
I

Incendiary

Banned
LiK said:
Hey ND, our 6-man stack Anubis stomp from that night.

https://youtu.be/AsS4uH4LX4o
Click to expand...

I like seeing these matches from other perspectives. Also first time I totally didn't notice Ned use his rocket barrage and kill the back line people before I grav'd - I was wondering what the hell was up with that push.

It also hurts my soul to be the only Gold in the lineup. Sigh.

EDIT: Just played a match with a guy who was super stoned and kept talking about breakfast in chat and how great breakfast is and how he wanted more breakfast.

We won because a guy on the other team left, but I was also having a killer round as Symmetra on Horizon. But yeah. Breakfast meta is in play now.
 
E

Exploratory

Banned
I need a larger group. Me and a friend duo Q at around 2800-3200 but the trolls/throwers/leavers/one tricks/no mics are at all time high.

If you're 2800+ and play more than just DPS please respond lol.

oApL4.gif
 
F

Forerunner

Member
Another day of making no progress at all, it’s just pointless. Oh well, I have enough for a weapon now. So back to enjoying Arcade rather than just playing this garbage comp. Not going to waste any more time with it.
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
Mr Git said:
I dunno, I've seen enough very good Junkrats to make me think he's fine as he is, just hard to master. I suppose the problem is there's just more rubbish Junkrats, although no character choice should be inherently deemed as throwing - bit of a shame if he's got that stigma. I like him but I'm shite with him.
Click to expand...
Considering he's gotten like 4 minutes in the pro scene this year I'd say he definitely needs fine-tuning.

"he's good it's just that the best players in the world haven't been able to make him work because he's hard to master"
 
S

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
Psychoward said:
Considering he's gotten like 4 minutes in the pro scene this year I'd say he definitely needs fine-tuning.
Click to expand...

His mine should not be deflectable, Matrix barrier, bubbled, etc.

I still feel like the game's defense/support mechanisms are a bit too strong over the offensive ones. Where going through and alternating some to either counter, be uneffected, or do additional damage would be a good idea to boost a lot of the under used characters.
 
R

rulerk1

Member
oh were playing comp again?

I feel like the Zero-G section of Horizon is so useless as there isnt a reason to go in there. Maybe add a flank route?
 
T

TimeEffect

Member
rulerk1 said:
oh were playing comp again?

I feel like the Zero-G section of Horizon is so useless as there isnt a reason to go in there. Maybe add a flank route?
Click to expand...

Just realized I never used this lol.

It's probably for the best. Nobody would want that to be a focus of the level, it'd be terrible.

I wish they'd avoid that gimmick and do something more interesting like crawlspaces or sewer routes fit for one person to go through. The jump pad in oasis is a nice feature because it's used often but isn't a pain like zero G
 
M

Mr Git

Member
Psychoward said:
Considering he's gotten like 4 minutes in the pro scene this year I'd say he definitely needs fine-tuning.

"he's good it's just that the best players in the world haven't been able to make him work because he's hard to master"
Click to expand...

Yeah fair enough that's not something I'm clued up on at all.
 
H

hanspampel

Banned
Exploratory said:
I need a larger group. Me and a friend duo Q at around 2800-3200 but the trolls/throwers/leavers/one tricks/no mics are at all time high.

If you're 2800+ and play more than just DPS please respond lol.

oApL4.gif
Click to expand...

what do you play? 3.1k support here (ana / zen, rarely mercy)
need to finish my race to 3.5k

iso some good tanks or dps player for duo Q
 
N

Nimby

Banned
Junkrat:

Up projectile speed significantly
Lower hitbox on grenade

Easy fix which makes Junkrat less spammy and more skillful.
 
F

Forerunner

Member
Fuck Junkrat. I hate everything about him. I hate the character, I hate how he looks, I hate how he sounds, and I hate his play style. He just spams shit, even when he dies he fucking spams shit.
 
N

Nimby

Banned
Here are two other easy defense hero fixes IMO:

Mei:

Increase fire rate on icicles

Reasoning - Mei can one-shot Tracer with a headshot. Her damage output is also pretty low compared to other similar roles, if you run a Mei according to Overbuff you are sacrificing on average 6,000 damage throughout the course of the match compared to Soldier, Tracer, Genji, McCree, etc.

Torb:

Fix his fucking tank sized critbox
Make it easier to upgrade level 1 turrets (or remove them completely)

Reasoning - His turrets can keep flankers at bay, as flankers rarely want to engage unless they have full health, but he has trouble building them level 2 unless he has the opportunity to set it up in the first place. Level 1 turrets are very much useless, you usually want to upgrade them ASAP. He also dies too fucking easily.
Click to expand...
 
I

Incendiary

Banned
Nimby said:
Here are two other easy defense hero fixes IMO:
Click to expand...

I think a neat fix to Torb would be to give him options in his turret upgrade. Like keep level 1 sucky, but give him an option of say between what level 2 is now (and decrease time it takes to upgrade it) or a more heavy artillery turret that shoots heavy homing rockets or something more akin to Junkrat/Pharah shots, but takes longer to upgrade. It would give Torb more variety and also give him better utility dependent on who he is facing.
 
O

Owzers

Member
Incendiary said:
I think a neat fix to Torb would be to give him options in his turret upgrade. Like keep level 1 sucky, but give him an option of say between what level 2 is now (and decrease time it takes to upgrade it) or a more heavy artillery turret that shoots heavy homing rockets or something more akin to Junkrat/Pharah shots, but takes longer to upgrade. It would give Torb more variety and also give him better utility dependent on who he is facing.
Click to expand...

His turret should shoot out robotic mini-Reins who pin enemies.

And no, mine would not miss.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
Incendiary said:
I think a neat fix to Torb would be to give him options in his turret upgrade. Like keep level 1 sucky, but give him an option of say between what level 2 is now (and decrease time it takes to upgrade it) or a more heavy artillery turret that shoots heavy homing rockets or something more akin to Junkrat/Pharah shots, but takes longer to upgrade. It would give Torb more variety and also give him better utility dependent on who he is facing.
Click to expand...

You mean a Lv3 turret or the ability to control the turret
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
just 3 whacks to get the sentry to level 2 and id be fine

its not like a TF2 sentry thats hard to take down. the thing is a joke to destroy so it needs to be a joke to upgrade. the amount of time you have to put in it for it to be easily destroyed by 3/4th of the cast is ridiculous and giving him quicker upgrades makes him more viable on KOTH or attack with area lockdown

I mean, I dont know if its still the case with her nerf but I couldnt outrepair anas rifle on my turret. That's stupid.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
I feel like Junkrat's the kind of character where if they buff him he'll become an absolute nightmare for the lower tiers of play, of course this is an assumption but his traps require observation that the less skillful are likely to just keep blindly stumbling into, his wheel doesn't get focused upon and the art of nade spam is way more effective.

At least this is why I feel that Blizzard haven't really tweaked Junk in any major way, while at higher levels of play he needs boosts I have to imagine that balancing him for the wider audience is something of a ballache.
 
N

Nimby

Banned
Nocturnowl said:
I feel like Junkrat's the kind of character where if they buff him he'll become an absolute nightmare for the lower tiers of play, of course this is an assumption but his traps require observation that the less skillful are likely to just keep blindly stumbling into, his wheel doesn't get focused upon and the art of nade spam is way more effective.

At least this is why I feel that Blizzard haven't really tweaked Junk in any major way, while at higher levels of play he needs boosts I have to imagine that balancing him for the wider audience is something of a ballache.
Click to expand...

Junk is already a nightmare to play against in those ranks, based on the ranked stats we have Junk is one of the most played DPS at bronze and silver. If you make his grenade AoE smaller with increased projectile speed he would probably be less effective at lower tiers, while being better overall. Teams don't cooperate at that rank, and tanks are not going to stop the spam coming through choke. And if they are they are too scared to push. Junk players at that tier don't need decent mechanical skill to play that hero compared to other DPS.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
I had the weirdest kid who joined our party chat today.

Kept telling us we are toxic for not switching from D.VA (me) to Torb on Attack. Kept threatening to quit. Kept on saying toxic this toxic that.

We won but boy I reported and blocked his ass so hard afterwards.

I guess it's the weekends effect.
 
N

Newtype-001

Member
Dessart said:
Holy Battlepass, Batman!

Capping the community contributions at 200k and leaving the rest for "operational support" feels really icky. Also, the Battlepass only costs 9.99.

I wonder if they'll try the same with Overwatch.
Click to expand...
something similar
We’re keen on making sure that teams will be able to share in the Overwatch League’s overall financial success and be rewarded for investing in their home cities. With that in mind, teams will all receive an equal share of net revenues from league-wide advertising, ticketing, and broadcast rights deals; at the same time, they will keep all local revenues up to a set amount each year (past that amount, a portion of the local revenues will go back into the league-wide shared pool for teams). Overwatch players will be able to support the collective teams via special in-game items, as 50% of the revenues from these items will flow into the shared revenue pool. These arrangements will help ensure that teams have the resources to establish and grow their local Overwatch communities for years to come.
Click to expand...
https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/news/20890515
 
S

Syf

Banned
exYle said:
What's with all the dislikes?
Click to expand...
People saw it and were immediately spamming "more loot boxes" when it was announced so that's probably it. But there's no RNG involved, just 16 skins per race along with the other unlocks and prize pool contribution. I think making it look like a loot box was probably a mistake. There's also Dota fans in there saying they stole the compendium idea, which is more accurate. Only problem I really have with it is capping prize pool contributions at $200k and the rest goes to "Blizzard's mystery fund" (wallet).
 
E

exYle

Member
Syf said:
People saw it and were immediately spamming "more loot boxes" when it was announced so that's probably it. But there's no RNG involved, just 16 skins per race along with the other unlocks and prize pool contribution. I think making it look like a loot box was probably a mistake. There's also Dota fans in there saying they stole the compendium idea, which is more accurate. Only problem I really have with it is capping prize pool contributions at $200k and the rest goes to "Blizzard's mystery fund" (wallet).
Click to expand...

Ah that makes sense.
 
S

Syf

Banned
There's also the fact that this should have been done about six years ago when SC2 esports was still thriving, lol. Community has been wanting it for years.
 
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